Why is there so much evil in the world?

[Mark Foote]

12 hours ago, ChunMaya said:

Pragmatically speaking, the level of evil in the world today (and since time immemorial) is closely tied to the amount of unconscious fear and unchecked desire people are carrying. At its root, it’s fear of suffering—not death, but suffering in all its forms. The more unconsciously someone fears suffering, the more likely they are to engage in evil actions: exploitation, theft, abuse, manipulation, etc. And the flip side is also true—the more someone is consumed by desire, the more likely they are to harm others in pursuit of relief, control, or gratification.
 

But underneath both fear and desire lies something even deeper: the illusion of separation. The belief that we are isolated, disconnected beings trying to survive alone in a hostile world. Once that illusion takes hold, self-preservation becomes the highest priority—regardless of who gets hurt. Layer on top of that a lack of self-awareness (ignorance), and you've got the perfect conditions for evil to flourish: people blindly reacting to internal chaos, with no understanding of the root causes driving them.
 

The three “cankers” were said to be three cravings:  “craving for the life of sense”, “craving for becoming”, and “craving for not-becoming” (DN 22; PTS vol. ii p 340). When the cankers are “destroyed”, the roots of the craving for sense-pleasures, the roots of the craving “to continue, to survive, to be” (tr. “bhava”, Bhikkyu Sujato), and the roots of the craving not “to be” (the craving for the ignorance of being) are destroyed.

... There is a lecture where Gautama described how, while abiding in the fourth concentration, he directed his mind to “the knowledge of the destruction of the cankers” (MN 4, tr. PTS p 29). That direction of mind, said Gautama, resulted in an understanding “as it really is” of what he called the four truths:  the existence of suffering, the arising of suffering, the ceasing of suffering, and the path leading to the ceasing of suffering. Once he had understood the four truths, he directed his mind to an understanding “as it really is” of a similar four truths with regard to the cankers, and subsequently realized both freedom from the cankers and knowledge of that freedom.
 

... If a person can exhibit a mindfulness like Gautama’s without having become enlightened, and can have “seen by means of wisdom” without having completely destroyed the cankers, then how can one know who to trust as a teacher?
 

Gautama’s advice was to go by the words of the teacher rather than any claim to authority, to compare the instructions of a teacher to the sermons Gautama himself had given and to the rules of the order that Gautama himself had laid down (DN 16 PTS vol. ii pp 133-136).
 

Nevertheless, activity solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness, the hallmark of the fourth concentration, has been conveyed by demonstration in some branches of Buddhism for millennia. The transmission of a central part of the teaching through such conveyance, and the certification of that transmission by the presiding teacher, is regarded by some schools as the only guarantee of the authenticity of a teacher.
 

The teachers so authenticated have in many cases disappointed their students, when circumstances revealed that the teacher’s cankers had not been completely destroyed. Furthermore, some schools appear to have certified transmission without the conveyance that has kept the tradition alive, perhaps for the sake of the continuation of the school.
 

(One Way or Another)

 

 

 

 

[Lairg]

Many years ago I would read accounts of those who committed really nasty crimes.

 

The thing that many accounts had in common is that when asked why, the person said:  The voice in my head told me to do it

 

V2K technology is well established, and spirit possession is common too.  Physical implants are a well-developed technology too and I often see etheric implants.

 

Perhaps the human race is not so intrinsically evil.

 

https://www.jlegal.org/blog/voice-to-skull-technology-and-electronic-harassment/ 

[ChunMaya]

48 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

The three “cankers” were said to be three cravings:  “craving for the life of sense”, “craving for becoming”, and “craving for not-becoming” (DN 22; PTS vol. ii p 340). When the cankers are “destroyed”, the roots of the craving for sense-pleasures, the roots of the craving “to continue, to survive, to be” (tr. “bhava”, Bhikkyu Sujato), and the roots of the craving not “to be” (the craving for the ignorance of being) are destroyed.

... There is a lecture where Gautama described how, while abiding in the fourth concentration, he directed his mind to “the knowledge of the destruction of the cankers” (MN 4, tr. PTS p 29). That direction of mind, said Gautama, resulted in an understanding “as it really is” of what he called the four truths:  the existence of suffering, the arising of suffering, the ceasing of suffering, and the path leading to the ceasing of suffering. Once he had understood the four truths, he directed his mind to an understanding “as it really is” of a similar four truths with regard to the cankers, and subsequently realized both freedom from the cankers and knowledge of that freedom.
 

... If a person can exhibit a mindfulness like Gautama’s without having become enlightened, and can have “seen by means of wisdom” without having completely destroyed the cankers, then how can one know who to trust as a teacher?
 

Gautama’s advice was to go by the words of the teacher rather than any claim to authority, to compare the instructions of a teacher to the sermons Gautama himself had given and to the rules of the order that Gautama himself had laid down (DN 16 PTS vol. ii pp 133-136).
 

Nevertheless, activity solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness, the hallmark of the fourth concentration, has been conveyed by demonstration in some branches of Buddhism for millennia. The transmission of a central part of the teaching through such conveyance, and the certification of that transmission by the presiding teacher, is regarded by some schools as the only guarantee of the authenticity of a teacher.
 

The teachers so authenticated have in many cases disappointed their students, when circumstances revealed that the teacher’s cankers had not been completely destroyed. Furthermore, some schools appear to have certified transmission without the conveyance that has kept the tradition alive, perhaps for the sake of the continuation of the school.
 

(One Way or Another)

 

 

 

 

 

I hadn’t come across the concept of the cankers before — but that’s an incredibly precise model. It explains why someone can have knowledge, training, even wisdom, and still be unconsciously driven by subtle egoic forces. It nails the underlying mechanics of craving, identity, and distortion far better than most frameworks out there. This kind of clarity should be taught from childhood — it’s foundational.

[ChunMaya]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

Many years ago I would read accounts of those who committed really nasty crimes.

 

The thing that many accounts had in common is that when asked why, the person said:  The voice in my head told me to do it

 

V2K technology is well established, and spirit possession is common too.  Physical implants are a well-developed technology too and I often see etheric implants.

 

Perhaps the human race is not so intrinsically evil.

 

https://www.jlegal.org/blog/voice-to-skull-technology-and-electronic-harassment/ 

Very interesting tech. If that’s the case, then proper via negativa practice becomes non-negotiable. It’s the only way to discern your true self from whatever distortions or overlays are running in your bodymind. Without discernment, you’re just a puppet to whatever’s influencing you—whether thats your minds own script or an external script from outside yourself.

[Lairg]

Whenever I have an out-of-sequence thought I pay close attention to its source and intent

 

There is a politician prominent in the European scene whose spine seems to have no empty slots left for etheric implants.  

 

I have never seen that before.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29 by Lairg

[Mark Foote]

On 5/28/2025 at 2:36 PM, ChunMaya said:

 

I hadn’t come across the concept of the cankers before — but that’s an incredibly precise model. It explains why someone can have knowledge, training, even wisdom, and still be unconsciously driven by subtle egoic forces. It nails the underlying mechanics of craving, identity, and distortion far better than most frameworks out there. This kind of clarity should be taught from childhood — it’s foundational.
 

"... someone can have knowledge, training, even wisdom, and still be unconsciously driven by subtle egoic forces."  Nail on the head.

 

That's the subject of the essay I took the quote from (One Way or Another). That essay is about MN 70, a lecture where Gautama distinguishes seven different types of "persons existing in the world". The first has experienced the final, "signless" concentration and has also arrived at "intuitive wisdom", the second has arrived at "intuitive wisdom" without attainment in the concentrations, and the other five have not arrived at "intuitive wisdom" (the third, in spite of having experienced the final, "signless" concentration). 

Only the first two, said Gautama, have completely destroyed the cankers. The others have partially destroyed the cankers, but not completely.

Apparently "intuitive wisdom" is connected with the understanding Gautama spoke of, the understanding that consciousness is bound to the body, and also with the ability to see previous habitations and future comings-to-be. Gautama came to his understanding and vision either while in the fourth concentration (many lectures), or after the final concentration (one lecture), but per MN 70 these things are not automatic because of the concentrations.

I have to say, if I could see past lives and future, the cankers might well be cut off at the root in me, too!  

Meanwhile, Gautama did say that his mindfulness was "a thing perfect in itself", and he said that the particular version of mindfulness that was his own was his way of living both before enlightenment ("when I was as yet the bodhisattva") and after enlightenment ("the tathagatha's way of living"). He recommended his way of living (more about that here), and my effort is to realize that, and not the vision of previous habitations and future comings-to-be that would result in the complete destruction of the cankers.

Weird, huh--a Buddhist who's not into enlightenment, per se.  But then, what they offer in Zen is not actually the enlightenment of Gautama, where the cankers are completely destroyed--more like Gautama's way of living, in disguise.

 

 

[ChunMaya]

10 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

Weird, huh--a Buddhist who's not into enlightenment, per se.  But then, what they offer in Zen is not actually the enlightenment of Gautama, where the cankers are completely destroyed--more like Gautama's way of living, in disguise.
 

 

Honestly, this resonates with me. Enlightenment to me isn't some distant goal to pursue—it's simply the natural result of purification. Like burning the haystack to reveal the needle.

 

At the core of it all, there seems to be one root canker that gives rise to the others: the sense of separation. In Sanskrit, it's called Avidya—the primordial forgetting of the true Self.

I see this as the true origin of evil. Separation hurts. And most human behavior is a compensatory attempt to soothe that pain—chasing status to feel significant, pleasure to mask the absence of real joy, becoming someone as a substitute for simply being.

[Mark Foote]

18 hours ago, ChunMaya said:

 

Honestly, this resonates with me. Enlightenment to me isn't some distant goal to pursue—it's simply the natural result of purification. Like burning the haystack to reveal the needle.

 

At the core of it all, there seems to be one root canker that gives rise to the others: the sense of separation. In Sanskrit, it's called Avidya—the primordial forgetting of the true Self.

I see this as the true origin of evil. Separation hurts. And most human behavior is a compensatory attempt to soothe that pain—chasing status to feel significant, pleasure to mask the absence of real joy, becoming someone as a substitute for simply being.
 

Yes, and that's the real heart of the martial arts--or as Morihei Ueshiba put it:

 

Aikido is ai (love). You make this great love of the Universe your heart, and then you must make your own mission the protection and love of all things.

(Aikido Journal, "Interview with Morihei Ueshiba and Kisshomaru Ueshiba", Josh Gold, September 24, 2016)

 

 

The initial concentrations Gautama taught conclude with the cessation of volition in inhalation and exhalation. My description, as I've said, is activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation solely by virtue of the location of consciousness.

Gautama stated that the initial concentrations involved equanimity with respect to the multiplicity of the senses:

 

… equanimity in face of multiformity, connected with multiformity… [which is] equanimity among material shapes, among sounds, smells, flavours, touches.

 

(MN 137, tr. Pali Text Society vol. III p 268)

 

The first four of the concentrations that could follow involved equanimity with respect to the uniformity of the senses:

 

… equanimity in face of uniformity, connected with uniformity. And what… is equanimity in face of uniformity, connected with uniformity? It is… equanimity connected with the plane of infinite ether, connected with the plane of infinite consciousness, connected with the plane of no-thing, connected with the plane of neither-perception-nor-nonperception.

(ibid)

 

I'm grateful that you are willing to indulge me, quoting from my posts at length. My own experience is limited--here is what I can say:

 

There’s a third line about actualization in “Genjo Koan”:

 

Although actualized immediately, the inconceivable may not be apparent.

(“Genjo Koan [Actualizing the Fundamental Point]”, tr. Kazuaki Tanahashi.)

 

 

Kobun Chino Otogawa gave a practical example of that third line, even though he wasn’t talking about “Genjo Koan” at the time:
 

You know, sometimes zazen gets up and walks around.

(Kobun Chino Otogawa, this author’s recollection of a lecture at S. F. Zen Center in the 1980’s)
 

 

Activity of the body solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness can sometimes get up and walk around, without any thought to do so.
 

Action like that resembles action that takes place through hypnotic suggestion, but unlike action by hypnotic suggestion, action by virtue of the free location of consciousness can turn out to be timely after the fact.  When action turns out to accord with future events in an uncanny way, the source of that action may well be described as “the inconceivable”.
 

I have found that zazen is more likely to “get up and walk around” when the free location of consciousness is accompanied by an extension of friendliness and compassion, an extension beyond the boundaries of the senses. Gautama the Buddha described such an extension:
 

[One] dwells, having suffused the first quarter [of the world] with friendliness, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth; just so above, below, across; [one] dwells having suffused the whole world everywhere, in every way, with a mind of friendliness that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence. [One] dwells having suffused the first quarter with a mind of compassion… with a mind of sympathetic joy… with a mind of equanimity that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence.

(MN 7, tr. Pali Text Society vol I p 48)

 

Gautama said that “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of the mind of compassion was the first of the further concentrations, a concentration he called “the plane of infinite ether” (MN 111; tr. Pali Text Society vol III p 79).

 

The Oxford English Dictionary offers some quotes about “ether”:

 

They [sc. the Brahmins] thought the stars moved, and the planets they called fishes, because they moved in the ether, as fishes do in water.

 

(Vince, Complete System. Astronomy vol. II. 253 [1799])

 

 

Plato considered that the stars, chiefly formed of fire, move through the ether, a particularly pure form of air.

 

(Popular Astronomy vol. 24 364 [1916])

 

 

(Oxford English Dictionary, s.v. “ether (n.),” March 2024, https://doi.org/10.1093/OED/1514129048)

 

 

When the free location of consciousness is accompanied by an extension of the mind of compassion, there can be a feeling that the necessity of breath is connected to things that lie outside the boundaries of the senses.  That, to me, is an experience of “the plane of infinite ether”.

 

(The Inconceivable Nature of the Wind)
 

 

When I'm dancing (I love to free-style to rock n' roll), or out walking at night, I look to the location of consciousness for the automatic activity of the body, and if I can muster up a mind of friendliness and compassion and extend that, I am dancing with everybody else and walking with people I don't know--people who may have mixed intentions toward me.

If I feel apart, I am lacking some of the above. Not the only way to be one with what lies beyond, for sure. Very handy in mosh situations.

 

 

Edited May 31 by Mark Foote

[Lairg]

On 5/31/2025 at 10:45 AM, ChunMaya said:

Enlightenment to me isn't some distant goal to pursue—it's simply the natural result of purification. Like burning the haystack to reveal the needle.

 

The lesser parts of the human are usually transfigured/recycled for higher functionality

 

The discarded subplanes are replaced by bodies built with the Five Electricities

 

http://yogananda.com.au/holy_science/holy_science10.html

 

 

 

[old3bob]

 

Some say "everything is perfect"...that is so if one  has attained perfection of being, wisdom,  perception, power and safety related to same thus they can state that from a transcendental realization of non-dual truth...but for most of the rest of us we are in the trench's somewhere at sometime, so I'd say such is a nice sounding but pending problematic and idealistic platitude.

 

 

 

Edited June 1 by old3bob

[doc benway]

On 6/1/2025 at 4:08 PM, old3bob said:

 

Some say "everything is perfect"...that is so if one  has attained perfection of being, wisdom,  perception, power and safety related to same thus they can state that from a transcendental realization of non-dual truth...but for most of the rest of us we are in the trench's somewhere at sometime, so I'd say such is a nice sounding but pending problematic and idealistic platitude.

 

"Everything is perfect" may be something a dzogchenpa might say and I'll address that.

Some New Age types may use the expression and may not fully appreciate its meaning.

Dzogchen literally means Great Perfection or Great Completion.

it does not refer to everything being perfect in the sense that everyone is happy and satisfied with their lot.

It has nothing to do with human judgment, opinions, pain, suffering, or preferences.

It is not at all an idealistic platitude.

I acknowledge that it does feel and sound that way and is easily misinterpreted. 

This is one reason why these teachings were kept secret for millennia and why they have always been controversial and polarizing in Buddhist monastic and lay communities. 

 

The Great Perfection or Great Completion refers to the fact that inherent in every sentient being is the primordially pure natural state which never has and never will require anything to be added or removed. It is the un-stainable, perfected essence of being that underlies all of the experiences and visions of life. We cannot do anything to create or destroy it, we cannot create or cause enlightenment. All we can do is discover it is always already present in the stillness, silence, and spaciousness of our body, speech, and mind. Whether samsara (suffering and delusion) or nirvana (liberation and freedom), all sentient experience arises, abides, and departs in the base of all without bias or exception. The base does not prefer one or another outcome or condition, all possible experience may arise whether we like it or not, whether it supports us or destroys us as sentient beings. There is similarity here to the Daoist description of the Dao treating all as straw dogs. Another similarity is that we cannot improve nor harm the Dao, similarly we cannot improve or harm the nature of our mind, hence the frequent use of the metaphor of a diamond, whose beauty and integrity we cannot enhance or detract. This is the type of perfection being indicated by the term dzogchen and when practitioners refer to innate perfection. No doubt the term is misused and misunderstood by some. 

 

At least that's my take on it, fwiw.

[old3bob]

5 hours ago, doc benway said:

 

"Everything is perfect" may be something a dzogchenpa might say and I'll address that.

Some New Age types may use the expression and may not fully appreciate its meaning.

Dzogchen literally means Great Perfection or Great Completion.

it does not refer to everything being perfect in the sense that everyone is happy and satisfied with their lot.

It has nothing to do with human judgment, opinions, pain, suffering, or preferences.

It is not at all an idealistic platitude.

I acknowledge that it does feel and sound that way and is easily misinterpreted. 

This is one reason why these teachings were kept secret for millennia and why they have always been controversial and polarizing in Buddhist monastic and lay communities. 

 

The Great Perfection or Great Completion refers to the fact that inherent in every sentient being is the primordially pure natural state which never has and never will require anything to be added or removed. It is the un-stainable, perfected essence of being that underlies all of the experiences and visions of life. We cannot do anything to create or destroy it, we cannot create or cause enlightenment. All we can do is discover it is always already present in the stillness, silence, and spaciousness of our body, speech, and mind. Whether samsara (suffering and delusion) or nirvana (liberation and freedom), all sentient experience arises, abides, and departs in the base of all without bias or exception. The base does not prefer one or another outcome or condition, all possible experience may arise whether we like it or not, whether it supports us or destroys us as sentient beings. There is similarity here to the Daoist description of the Dao treating all as straw dogs. Another similarity is that we cannot improve nor harm the Dao, similarly we cannot improve or harm the nature of our mind, hence the frequent use of the metaphor of a diamond, whose beauty and integrity we cannot enhance or detract. This is the type of perfection being indicated by the term dzogchen and when practitioners refer to innate perfection. No doubt the term is misused and misunderstood by some. 

 

At least that's my take on it, fwiw.

 

ok, Brahman/Atman is perfect and can not be added to subtracted from or changed....but to go further the full meaning includes the "ten Thousand" as also being perfect which is more of a wowie if that is what you also mean?  Anyway I'd say to see the ten thousand as also "perfect" takes the non-dual realization/perception as I alluded to otherwise such is a nice sounding platitude.

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

Brahman/Atman is perfect and can not be added to subtracted from or changed.

 

Why does  Brahman bother with forming and maintaining Existence if it obtains nothing from it?

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

2 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Why does  Brahman bother with forming and maintaining Existence if it obtains nothing from it?

 

 

 

it was a passing thought. which was then dismissed.

 

when we are in a dream or having a dream it seems so real.  

when we wake up the dream floats away and is seen as having no substance.

just a passing thought.

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

ok, Brahman/Atman is perfect and can not be added to subtracted from or changed....but to go further the full meaning includes the "ten Thousand" as also being perfect which is more of a wowie if that is what you also mean?  Anyway I'd say to see the ten thousand as also "perfect" takes the non-dual realization/perception as I alluded to otherwise such is a nice sounding platitude.

 

Yes, the 10,000 things are also perfect. 

They are just as they are, nothing missing, nothing misspelled.

Everything is just as it is when we open fully to it. 

Heaven and Earth treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs, as does the sage.

All that arises is perfected in the base, but that doesn't mean it's pleasant or meets my expectations.

The base has no bias, that is the job of my mind.

This has absolutely nothing to do with platitudes or making anyone feel better.

It's quite the opposite in fact. It means we must deal with what is, like it or not.

But perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

 

[Cobie]

 

53 minutes ago, doc benway said:

… Heaven and Earth treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs, as does the sage.…

This translates 聖人 sheng4 ren2 as the  ‘sage’. But 聖人 had many different meanings, it was also a name for the Emperor. 
 

天 地 不 仁 之 以        Heaven and Earth are not humane, treat

萬 物 為 芻 狗 也        the myriad creatures as straw dogs      

聖 人 不 仁 之 以       The Emperor is not humane, treats                            

百 姓 為 芻 狗 也       common people as straw dogs.   (DDJ Ch. 5)      

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:50 PM by Cobie

[doc benway]

29 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

This translates 聖人 sheng4 ren2 as the  ‘sage’. But 聖人 had many different meanings, it was also a name for the Emperor. 
 

天 地 不 仁 之 以        Heaven and Earth are not humane, treat

萬 物 為 芻 狗 也        the myriad creatures as straw dogs      

聖 人 不 仁 之 以       The Emperor is not humane, treats                            

百 姓 為 芻 狗 也       common people as straw dogs.   (DDJ Ch. 5)      

 

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out @Cobie

Emperor would make sense in context.

Using the translation sage has different implications but if we assume the sage expresses characteristics of the Dao, this translation also makes sense to me. 

 

[liminal_luke]

You are perfect just as you are, and you could use a little improvement.

 

--attributed to Shunryru Suzuki-roshi

 

I suspect this saying could apply to a great many of the "ten-thousand things."  A related paradox: when we accept ourselves and others as we are, resistance softens and change for the better comes easily.

Edited yesterday at 12:15 AM by liminal_luke

[Lairg]

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Why does  Brahman bother with forming and maintaining Existence if it obtains nothing from it?

 

3 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

it was a passing thought. which was then dismissed.

 

So Brahman does change - and then regrets the change?

 

I am still left with the question:  Why does Brahman bother?

 

 

In the old days, when priests were asked such a question they would say:  It is a Mystery

 

No further discussion was had

 

That would hardly satisfy these days.  Much of quantum physics comes from thought experiments

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:55 AM by Lairg

[doc benway]

You know how I know I'm not a sage, or an Emperor?

I cannot treat common people as straw dogs.

 

I think there is so much evil in the world precisely because there is so much good.

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

So Brahman does change - and then regrets the change?

I am still left with the question:  Why does Brahman bother?

In the old days, when priests were asked such a question they would say:  It is a Mystery

No further discussion was had

That would hardly satisfy these days.  Much of quantum physics comes from thought experiments

 

before thought, before thinking is the essence that does not change.

 

the 10,000 things (including thoughts, including feelings, including science, including the entirety of the universes and everything in them, including good and evil) all change.  However they flow from that which does not change.

 

In the Tao:

(verse 42)

 

The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.

 

 

Brahman is not in my frame of reference so I can't speak to that.  But i can speak to the essence that does not change, which from the human point of view is the essence of each of us that is unformed, uncreated, unborn, unchanging, no beginning, no end.  

 

it is tracing back to the Source.  the Source does not change.  stuff flows from the Source.  but the Source is not changed by that which flows from it. 

Edited yesterday at 01:54 AM by BigSkyDiamond

[Lairg]

44 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

The Tao begot one.

 

Why did the Tao do that?

 

 

[old3bob]

 

logically the question of:  if everything is perfect then what unperfect is there to "escape" from per the Buddha's famous quote along that line, including suffering?  Thus I'd say it again until such an "escape" someone saying everything is perfect is a nice sounding platitude or as some call it bypassing.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:10 AM by old3bob

[Lairg]

48 minutes ago, old3bob said:

everything is perfect is a nice sounding platitude or as some call it bypassing.

 

I am not sure perfect is the exact concept.   But it seems that the Dao wishes to achieve something by causing Existence

 

If so, do humans have a useful role?  Or perhaps they are decorative

 

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

 

Why did the Tao do that?

 

 

 

why do you need a reason?