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Is silent concentrated thought upon the subconscious the most potent way to manifest? Or thought in combination with sound vibration (spoken word) Ive seen some state that spoken word coupled with intent is more powerful than thought alone because you're sending physical energy with sound which is more powerful for manifesting than non physical energy which takes time to translate into physical reality (thought) and on the contrary, Ive seen individuals argue that silent thought is most potent because thought energy travels the fastest. I'd like to know what the intellectuals and deep thinkers here have to say on the matter. Shall we have tea? ūüĎĀÔłŹ

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Now that's an interesting question. 

 

There is one powerful way to manifest.  Find the emotions first.  Then, experience the emotions 'as though' the desired result has already happened.  I've read this in many books, and I agree that there is truth to it - to continually do this to set the stage for the event actually occurring.  I think this is most useful in healing, as it provides direct guidance to the body, a template for how it's going to feel in the future (which is really Now).

 

In my personal experience, manifestation happens naturally and it reflects our own mindset and conditioning at any given time.  This is how I triangulate causation for an illness; to look at what the person is currently manifesting in their life - is it organized and peaceful?  Or is it chaotic, messy?  What is the underlying hidden reason that the chaos has manifested?  Can this reason be tied to a childhood memory that can be reverse-imprinted?  A reverse imprint can happen if the imprint is changed in the Now, even though the dynamic may have started years ago.  

 

If one is trying to manifest a different direction in life, one may need to make changes to their inner beliefs about themselves, those things that have hampered good manifestations in the past.  The best manifesters are those who don't have a lot of inner baggage, who have self-realized who they really Are.  There is a minimum of character flaws; the character is straight and true.

 

If someone is trying to manifest something specific, like a new car or new job or a relationship -  most of the books will say that it is important to be very specific about what you want; give it some serious thought, form the image in the mind.  Refer to this image daily until you've actually changed the energy field surrounding themselves.  Maybe this works.  I've never tried to do it that way.  What I do is set my intent and then just watch.  Do nothing and watch.  The situations will come to you, and you will recognize them as aligned with your intent, and you will recognize the right choices.

 

Actually, what you were saying about the spoken word is a subject of debate in healing communities.  Science of Mind practitioners will use the spoken word, persuading the person being healed that they are perfect, and that nothing is wrong with them.  This is meant to tap into the I AM within us, to remind us who we really are.  Christian Science, on the other hand, think that the silent thought is more powerful than the spoken word.  I have no opinion on either.

 

Come to think of it, a long time ago I saw a picture of a gorgeous Bugatti car.  I ripped out the picture from the magazine and put it in my desk at work, looking at it every time I opened the drawer.  I focused on this for months. (This has to be 50 years ago!)  But, to this point, I've never gotten a Bugatti.  Never even seen one.  Never even crashed into one.  I'm still waiting. :huh:

 

Great topic.  I hope a few others pick up on it.

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When speaking aloud it also helps to state your intentions clearly, and even establish boundaries. Angels can hear thoughts just fine, but lower entities rely on the vibrations, and might be prone to mischief.

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If there are no tympanic membranes around to interpret the sound waves, the falling tree makes no noise at all.

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I definitely wish more people would chime in. It's basically theorized in this light. Sound vibration is physical energy. Thought energy is non physical. So it takes longer for thought energy alone to build up within the vortex of the subconscious, usually people have trouble manifesting with mere thought in general because they're not in a state (theta conscious) for their thoughts to effectively plant within the subconscious. Not saying a thought couldn't root in a normal waking state but if it does it usually will take a very long period of time and there's no guarantee that the subconscious will actually pick up those thought vibrations. Theta is different because you communicate directly with the subconscious, so the idea is.... That if you can put yourself in the state of communication with the subconscious where it directly picks up your vibration, you can reprogram, and although thought energy can be powerful and can build up within this vortex, it can take a while before this energy has enough power/flux to translate over to physical reality. Sound, in essence is different in the sense that you are communicating physical energy directly into the subconscious. Physical energy to manifest a physical reality, there's no need to wait for the energy built to be translated/transmuted in the way it takes for thought to descend from the higher sphere and plane it exist on and finally to the physical, and there's no need to wait because the sound energy is a.l.r.e.a.d.y direct physical energy. In my opinion, I'm going to have to go with sound vibration in the theta state as probably the most effective means of communicating and gathering energy for manifestation and deliberate creation. I believe this theory. There were times i didn't manifest thinking alone and when I spoke.... It literally came faster than ever.

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On 11/7/2019 at 8:46 AM, zero said:

Sound, in essence is different in the sense that you are communicating physical energy directly into the subconscious. 

 

 

I don't have a Bible nearby but this statement is reminiscent of the first words in Genesis.  God spoke the Word and said 'Let There Be Light.'  The Sound came first.

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I like the study of kotodama, ie sacred sounds.  Many cultures have practices, often similar.  How the vowels (&consonants) feel and vibrate in our bodies, organs and mood.  It doesn't have to be esoteric or theoretical either.  Every day in the shower, we have a chance to find our mantra, our song, within the resonance of a tiled chamber. 

 

Hit the right notes and we are rewarded.  Shinto, Abulafiah's (Ecstatic) Kabbalah,  Rawn Clarks work are some of the types I work with, but any singing/chanting/prayer in the shower, particularly  long vowel notes are easily turned into the spiritual. 

 

 

note.  abardoncompanion.com had one of my favorite forms of kotodama, the YHVH canticle lessons had disappeared.  Just found a copy of it that exists as abardoncompanion.de .  http://abardoncompanion.de/TMO-Links.html

Edited by thelerner
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51 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

I don't have a Bible nearby but this statement is reminiscent of the first words in Genesis.  God spoke the Word and said 'Let There Be Light.'  The Sound came first.

 

And elegantly restated in the Gospel of John, here interleaved with some New-age mumbo jumbo for fun ūüėá

 

The universe was introduced by the convergence of frequency vibrations and conceptualization which generated the introduction of matter and caused the big bang to happen.

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

The Higgs field contains the most powerful concentration of the frequency vibrations because this field of energy represents the identity of the universe’s existence.

 

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

Before this universe existed there was thought with frequency vibrations and light and dark energy everywhere; which has always existed. This is how the concept of infinity was introduced into consciousness here on Earth.

 

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.  

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On 11/6/2019 at 3:49 PM, manitou said:

If there are no tympanic membranes around to interpret the sound waves, the falling tree makes no noise at all.

 

But... the sound waves still manifest - regardless of whether there is something there to interpret the sound wave or not. So yes, sound has still manifested. 

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can there be buying if there is not also simultaneously selling?

 

can there be sound without hearing?

 

 

reminds me of a compulsively recurring insistent answerless question that arises, phoenixlike, unbidden in awareness... for decades... since childhood.

 

where does music live?

 

in the instrument?

in the fingers?

the keys?

the strings?

in the breath?

in the flute?

in the holes?

in the drum skin?

 

what is the drum without its skin and the hand to strike it?

 

where does music abide?

in the air?

in the ear?

 

 

in the mind?

in awareness...

 

when i hear music in my mind, is this still music?

and

 

at what point, does noise become music?

 

deeply experience it arising, coalescing spontaneously within...

reaction of organ to that which it is sensitive to...

 

awareness, centered on sensation and interptetion into story.

 

of what regarding the nature of starlight, do earthworms ponder?

i wonder

Edited by silent thunder
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The woman speaking in my dream.

Was this sound?  I heard it.

Though not with my ears.

 

I experienced hearing it.

or I recall experiencing, hearing it.

 

The sunset she 'spoke of'... was this light?

I remember 'seeing' it.

Recall becoming aware that it was 'just a dream'.

 

Yet I saw the light, heard the voice...

Where does that light live?

Where does sound exist?

 

Seems, what is perceived depends wholly on the organ/process.

Organs tuned to specific ranges of frequencies. 

Bats, dogs, porpoises hear all manner of that which I do not.

Bees, Fish, Birds, Cats see ultraviolet that I do not. 

 

 

What of all that lies outside our range to sense?

Is it 'real'?

What makes it real?

Do the Bees and me, the same flower see?

 

Edited by silent thunder
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On 11/9/2019 at 10:19 AM, ilumairen said:

 

But... the sound waves still manifest - regardless of whether there is something there to interpret the sound wave or not. So yes, sound has still manifested. 

 

 

I think just the waves have generated.  How many electromagnetic waves go by our ears that we don't hear?  If there is no one interpreting the waves, there wouldn't be 'sound', which implies that there is a manifestation that is received and interpreted.  I think the real question is What Is Sound?  Is it the vibrations alone?  Or the capture of the vibrations by the tympanic membranes?

 

It's a real chicken and egg question, apparently.

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Cymatics it utterly fascinating to me.  I began obsessing over it when happening upon Sofeggio resonances.

 

Cymatics is the process of observing the physical shape of various sound frequencies revealed by vibrating various types of powders, liquids and non-newtonian fluids/pastes on flat plates at varying frequencies.

 

Powders will reveal through resistance patterns the physical shape of various frequencies.

 

Non Newtonian fluids particularly respond to vibration in highly detailed 3 dimensionality.

 

 

all form may be described as a physical aspect of the sound of the vibration of its essential nature disturbing the medium through which is passes...

 

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4 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

I think just the waves have generated.  How many electromagnetic waves go by our ears that we don't hear?

 

Exactly... 

 

Quote

 

 If there is no one interpreting the waves, there wouldn't be 'sound', which implies that there is a manifestation that is received and interpreted.  

 

Awareness of sound would imply received and interpreted manifestation, however, there are mechanically measurable sounds we are incapable of hearing, and our lack of capacity doesn't negate their existence... 

 

Quote

 

I think the real question is What Is Sound?  Is it the vibrations alone?  Or the capture of the vibrations by the tympanic membranes?

 

It's a real chicken and egg question, apparently.

 

To me it has always seemed rather human(and ego)-centric, the whole tree falling in the woods question.. 

 

Edited by ilumairen

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3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

A full documentary I really appreciated is on youtube in four parts, each half hour long.

Here's a link to the first one, for those inclined.

Cymatics: Bringing Matter to Life with Sound

 

Couldn't cymatics be used to illustrate an effect caused by sound waves which are beyond our human capacity to hear? And wouldn't this then illustrate the reality of sound non-dependent upon our tympanic membranes?

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1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

 

Couldn't cymatics be used to illustrate an effect caused by sound waves which are beyond our human capacity to hear? And wouldn't this then illustrate the reality of sound non-dependent upon our tympanic membranes?

If sound is defined as vibration then absolutely.  It's all sound.

 

Playing advocate I could (and for some years did) experience all phenomenon as nothing but sound all the way up and all the way down.  All frequencies of vibrations in reality, even those beyond human senses and all our instruments seemed like sound.  The great OM.  It's all sound.

 

But lately it's shifted.

Sound to me implies hearing.

Hearing is comprised of awareness.

 

Sound now is experienced as a relational, transactional collaboration.

Air wave vibrations, ear skin capable of sympathetic vibration and at the core, the awareness stimulated by that skin, are each collaborative aspects of one process... sound.

 

Take away any one of them away and sound as I experience it now, becomes vibration only...

Remove my ear drum and awareness experiences nothing of the vibration.

Remove awareness and though the ear vibrates what is experienced?

Remove the wave and there is nothing to stimulate the skin of the ear.

In vacuum, without air to disturb in patterns, no sound arises.

 

No matter how hard one strikes a drum with no skin, no sound arises.

 

Cymatics reveals this relational aspect, for without the plate vibrating the powder on it, there will be vibrations, but no manifestation of patterns or shape will occur.  That manifestation of patterns is transactional with all aspects requiring presence.  Plate, vibrating, powder disturbed coming to rest in the areas of least vibration.  The vibration is not the source of the manifestation.  Any more than the powder is, or the plate.  It's all of a thing.  One collaborative interrelated process.

 

Ear skin, Awareness, Vibration... They are for me, of a thing.

 

Sort of like Fire expresses via three aspects.

Fuel, heat and oxygen. 

 

Remove any one of them and fire extinguishes.

Sound is relational.  Anything regarding our senses is like this for me now... relational. 

Non-separatable.

 

But just to me... and I'm not selling anything with these musings... just sharing my experience as this intrigues the shit out of me.

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I have been meaning to address manifestation. I ready a book early on in the 80's called Psycho-Cybernetics written by Maxwell Maltz MD, 1960. He said that if a person concentrated on something long enough...something they really wanted it would eventually materialize. They way I understand this concept is I make subtle adjustments to my behavior that helps me get to my goal. Maltz describes this entity within us as the "Servomechanism." This mechanism is always working on the solution when awake or sleeping. 

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Wow. I had no idea pplon here would be so smart. Jesus Christ you fuckers Are intellectuals.... I have a question. Does the subconscious pick up everything? Regardless of a state of meditation. In other words, can I communicate with my subconscious directly in a waking state. There are some ppl that say your subconscious doesn't pick up sensory input unless in a certain brainwave or shutting out your outer senses in meditation. But if that's true, why do I have dreams about things I experience consciously. Where did this idea come from that the subconscious is "locked" away or Must be unlocked, or there's some special technique required to communicate with it. Aren't the conscious and subconscious minds ALWAYS communicating at all times?

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17 minutes ago, zero said:

Wow. I had no idea pplon here would be so smart. Jesus Christ you fuckers Are intellectuals.... I have a question. Does the subconscious pick up everything? Regardless of a state of meditation. In other words, can I communicate with my subconscious directly in a waking state. There are some ppl that say your subconscious doesn't pick up sensory input unless in a certain brainwave or shutting out your outer senses in meditation. But if that's true, why do I have dreams about things I experience consciously. Where did this idea come from that the subconscious is "locked" away or Must be unlocked, or there's some special technique required to communicate with it. Aren't the conscious and subconscious minds ALWAYS communicating at all times?

 

I would suggest perpetual interplay between what we label conscious and unconscious - with the notion some stalwart individuals have dived more deeply into the depths and discovered ways to consciously integrate the subconscious - at which point it's not really sub (or un)conscious anymore. :)

 

You're rather fun, and I'm happy you're here.

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3 hours ago, zero said:

Wow. I had no idea pplon here would be so smart. Jesus Christ you fuckers Are intellectuals.... I have a question. Does the subconscious pick up everything? Regardless of a state of meditation. In other words, can I communicate with my subconscious directly in a waking state. There are some ppl that say your subconscious doesn't pick up sensory input unless in a certain brainwave or shutting out your outer senses in meditation. But if that's true, why do I have dreams about things I experience consciously. Where did this idea come from that the subconscious is "locked" away or Must be unlocked, or there's some special technique required to communicate with it. Aren't the conscious and subconscious minds ALWAYS communicating at all times?

Really appreciating this topic.

It's been percolating since you first shared it.  The Bolded bit reminds me of the analogy that 'awareness is an ocean' :  my own and each individual awareness arises like a wave in the ocean and can be identified and experienced as a distinct, individual process in a manner of perception;  yet at no point, is the wave ever separate from the whole of the rest of the ocean, nor any of the other waves arising. 

 

And the wave itself is not made of the ocean, but what is observed as a wave is a motion flowing through the ocean.  

 

My body is not a static thing.  I am not one human being... except on a certain level of magnification.  Get more myopic and my body is a collection of five trillion individual cells, self arranging in a complex, interrelated pattern that is the involunatary expression of an unfolding process of conditions in existence. 

 

This body is experienced lately as a complex pattern that self sustains in an involuntary relational response to stimuli of the environment, for a few decades, then diminishes back into soil, minerals and water vapor.

 

That which manifests, arises seemingly 'of itself', seemingly involuntarily, yet simultaneously, wholly and utterly in accord with all of its environment.

 

The environment is comprised entirely of organisms, while the organisms arise within the environment.

Where does one cease and the other arise?

self and other dissolve into one another of late...

 

Manifestation seems relational.  Requiring several aspects co-arising

 

Relational arrangement.  Patterns arising in response to conditions.

I  experience reality in direct relation to the nature of the organs awareness senses with...

 

Does music manifest in reality?

Is music real?

 

It exists in time, yet where in space does it take shape?

it seems formless to my senses, yet a cymatic plate will reveal vibration expresses as form in certain conditions.

 

what makes noise different from music?

when does music transition into noise?

when do I transition into environment?

when I eat a banana and it becomes part of my liver, skin and bones?

when i excrete the unusable remnants of it and these become a flower next year?

 

manifestation seems relational.

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Sigmund Freud is the Father of the concept of subconsciousness. I think of subconscious as a submarine that is lurking just below the water. When the periscope is up it can look at conscious awareness material and stored unconscious material. Unconscious material would be the stuff on the bottom of the ocean...just laying around waiting to be discovered. Subconscious material could be equated to seaweed just floating up from the bottom. I don't think that the unconscious and subconscious communicate with each other as we would with each other. Unconscious material is held down by defense mechanism. Whereas, Subconscious material is free floating. Freud believed that there were three components that made up our personalities: Id, Ego, and Superego. Now remember that Carol Yung, a student of Freud's, disagreed with Freud and came up with a different Theory of Personality. So, there is nothing written in stone. We can all guess and speculate about the above postings until we get tired and move on to something else. But one thing is for sure, we are not going to reinvent the wheel on this matter. If one of us does come up with a new and tried theory of personality, then we better publish it and book a spot on the "View."

 

In all the years I have treated distressed people, not a one responded to any didactic I gave on any matter that was theoretical. People just want to be heard, and maybe given tools to help them get to their goals. Most just wanted to "feel" better.

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Addendum: On vibrations. I say give me those good vibrations the Beach Boys were talking about. 

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On 11/17/2019 at 2:12 PM, Jim D. said:

I have been meaning to address manifestation. I ready a book early on in the 80's called Psycho-Cybernetics written by Maxwell Maltz MD, 1960. He said that if a person concentrated on something long enough...something they really wanted it would eventually materialize. They way I understand this concept is I make subtle adjustments to my behavior that helps me get to my goal. Maltz describes this entity within us as the "Servomechanism." This mechanism is always working on the solution when awake or sleeping. 

 

 

I'm still waiting for my Bugatti.  I began the manifestation technique in 1971.  Seriously.  

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