Etymology

[Stigweard]

The reason I love etymology so much is because it is the 'true sense of a word'; tracing a word back to it's original meaning. In a very real way spiritual cultivation is the etymology of self because we are striving to revitalise the original, whole self.

 

Etymology comes from etumos, 'true', so, if I were to play with creating a new word I could (tongue in cheek)say the essence of spiritual cultivation is 'selfetumation'.

 

I shall play with some of our commonly used words ... feel free to play along

[steve]

I also enjoy etymology but I'm relatively ignorant of it.

One limitation of etymology is that the original intention or meaning of the word is not necessarily related to it's popular use or interpretation.

[Stigweard]

One limitation of etymology is that the original intention or meaning of the word is not necessarily related to it's popular use or interpretation.

 

Though I agree that the adherence to the popular face value of words is important for communication, I believe etymology is no limitation at all but perhaps an opportunity for insight and development.

 

Let me explain...

 

This process of words changing meaning is called 'cultural shift'. You have the original intention of a word at its inception but, through socialization and cultural change, the original meaning becomes something else entirely.

 

It can be seen that individual socialization has the same effect. We have our 'original self' which has a pure intention (some would say the arts of astrology, and numerology, etc. presents us a 'portrait' of this original intention). However, through social conditioning we develop factitious diversions of consciousness that we incorrectly come to believe are ourselves, our personality. Thus this socialised self is merely the "popular use or interpretation" of oneself.

 

The thing to remember, as I have presented in the thread: A Toltec view of Self, our personality (or my preferred term: Tonal) is based entirely on our descriptive use of words in association to ourselves and the world as we percieve it.

 

So because our Tonal is a construct of words it is imperative we a] use our words impeccably, and b] take inventory of the words that we have used in the construction of our Tonal.

 

It is also my belief that the original founders of the written word created the alphabets we use as spiritual symbolic representations of their understanding and connection with Universal Nature. We find clear examples of this in the Druidic Ogham, the Egyptian, Greek, and Hebrew alphabets, and perhaps even the I Ching.

 

Thus in my understanding, the original use of words and the art of stringing letters together to encapulate intention and meaning was a mystical process. To this end, the double meaning of the word "spell" has interesting implications.

 

Due to these points I have found that, in my experience, exploring the etymological roots of the words and their efficient use can help us to firstly bring a more harmonious 'structure' to our Tonal, and secondly, if we are in conscious or intentful control of our Tonal, we may trim away the socialized excess to bring us back to our original, mysterious, nameless self.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Stigweard

[steve]

Nicely said. I'm not sure that I feel the same significance in words as you do, but that's all well and good.

I agree that the exploration of etymology is a wonderful educational opportunity. Furthermore, clear communication fosters harmonius relationship. Finally, Chinese characters, to me, are the best possible illustration of your points as they are clearly an example of symbolic representation of ideas, concepts, reality, and so on, and can speak to the reader at a deeper level than one usually experiences with reading the written word.

[freeform]

Fantastic post, Stig.

 

A few things to add - the Tonal being in the realm of words... There is a layer below words: I see the Tonal as being the undeveloped 'mind' - its level of awareness is based on its bandwidth - which is 7 (+ or - 2) 'bits' of information... quite simple - but our mind works on between 9 and 5 bits at any one time...

 

So during an average moment in the day if we took a look inside our mind we would have 2 or 3 'bits' having to do with our 'identity' (I'm a salesman, I'm a mother, I'm a friend etc) - 2 or 3 bits to do with where we are (I'm in the office, I'm in the nursery, I'm in the bar etc) - the rest (1 to 3 bits) is used for what's actually going on at the moment (writing an email, feeding a baby, holding a conversation etc)...

 

Of course this is all subject to a lot of flexibility - when people describe what it feels like to be in 'the zone' (or whatever state comes about when we're doing something excellently) - they talk about losing who they are, where they are and any stray thoughts, and all their attention is focused on the task at hand... what happens there (among many other things that I wont bother mentioning now) is the 7 +/- 2 awareness is emptied of useless background noise and is filled with the information required for the task at hand...

 

so what are these bits and how do they work? - well this is it - they're made up of the senses: Visual, Auditory and Kinaesthetic (as well as tastes and smells)... each individual also has varying ratios of these (more visual or more kinaesthetic etc) - there is that general habitual preference, but also different sorts of thoughts require different concentrations of V,A,K... So language, words, internal dialogue etc is based on a variant of A (auditory) it's called 'auditory digital' - which basically means having discreet/separate bits of auditory information. My personal tendency is to have K (kinaesthetic) 'thoughts' (like I really 'get' an idea, or get the feel for a subject) and then I try to 'explain' or translate it to Ad (auditory digital)... It seems to me, from following your posts, Stig, that you have a similar tendency.

 

Then there is the part of us that is on the opposite end of the spectrum - I think you called it Nagal (?) I just know it as my belly. It has to do with eternity, 'everything'... if your mind is a digital clock, the belly is an analogue clock - so it's hard to compare them - if you had to compare the bandwidth - the mind has up to 9 bits - the belly has unlimited amount of bits (but, and quite importantly, it can only ever be aware of all the bits, and can never be aware of only some bits to the exclusion of other bits).

 

For the mind the belly is incredibly frightening - it's like a black hole of nothingness. For the belly the mind is like a narcissistic teenager who's trying to run the whole show - for the belly it's incredibly limiting, and ungraspable. Taoists, however recognise another core aspect. It's the heart.

 

The heart is the middle bit - it helps the mind and the belly find a common ground to communicate. I think the Tonal incorporates a bit of the heart - it's the bit between the heart and the mind that makes up the 'personality'... the heart is to do with emotions, feelings - a bodily sort of awareness... the mind filters incoming and outgoing information through it's 7 +or- 2 processor, and it also creates patterns.

 

The heart communicates in dramatic archetypes - by the time this communication works through all the patterning and personalization that is programmed in by the mind, it becomes a single, discreet, separate 'thing' that the mind can grasp - this is how words come about... so the archetypal quality of 'Heroness' goes up from the heart and through the mind and becomes '50 Cent' or 'Rambo' or 'Luke Skywalker' or 'Lao Tzu' etc... (stories, poetry, art, music works this process the other way round - they take mind-based discreet bits and feed them through the mind, down to the heart - which resonates with this indistinct quality that's already there, and that's why we enjoy these things so much)

 

...so yeah - this is my highly simplified etymology of self...

[Stigweard]

Finally, Chinese characters, to me, are the best possible illustration of your points as they are clearly an example of symbolic representation of ideas, concepts, reality, and so on, and can speak to the reader at a deeper level than one usually experiences with reading the written word.

 

I agree and I admit that a deeper understanding of the Chinese language is an area of learning I truly want to explore. If any members here have knowledge of Chinese etymology I would very much enjoy reading about it in this thread.

 

There is a layer below words: I see the Tonal as being the undeveloped 'mind' - its level of awareness is based on its bandwidth - which is 7 (+ or - 2) 'bits' of information... quite simple - but our mind works on between 9 and 5 bits at any one time...

 

I have only just heard this 'bit' model recently elsewhere and am interested. Can you explain it further freeform? I get the 'guts' of the outline ... Where is this referenced from? What body of science are you drawing on here?

[freeform]

I have only just heard this 'bit' model recently elsewhere and am interested. Can you explain it further freeform? I get the 'guts' of the outline ... Where is this referenced from? What body of science are you drawing on here?

 

This is from Cognitive Psychology...

 

it's usually related to 'short term' or 'working' memory - from personal exploration calling it 'memory' is rather limiting - I think of it more as awareness or playground... Another observation is that using the mind always creates 'bits' - the mind creates separate independent bits from whatever it places its attention on...

 

Holding your energy in the mind, if you scan with your eyes the room where you are right now, you will notice your eyes automatically jump from 'object' to 'object' - it's pretty much impossible to smoothly move your eyes from left to right, without your focus jumping from 'bit' to 'bit'...

 

If you start to bring out your peripheral vision, you'll notice the energy move from your head downwards - it becomes much easier to scan without jumping and distinguishing 'things'... this is how good artists 'see'. When I let my energy go down lower, there is no need to scan - everything is perceived 'at once'...

 

anyway the above is from personal experimentation.

 

to read more about the 7 + or - 2 bits as working memory, this wikipedia is a good place to start.

[steve]

My first shot at some Hanzi etymology:

 

Tai Ji -

Tai - 太 - Means greatest, highest, extreme, supreme, most remote. It derives from a stick figure of a person with outstretched arms implying opening or expanding or aging. The stem on the leg implies the divine spark or some distinguishing characteristic.

Ji - 極 - Means utmost point, extreme, or pole. The left radical is a tree. The right radical is heaven above earth connected by man using hand (left) and mouth (right).

 

Putting these together connotates extreme poles or opposites. It seems to imply that two opposites come together to form something greater or something whole and complete. It implies a union of extreme opposites.

 

Add Quan - 拳, which means fist or boxing and you have Taijiquan.

 

Most people translate Taijiquan as Supreme Ultimate Boxing. This is literally correct and it's certainly possible that the advocates of this style chose the name to imply the extreme effectiveness and perhaps, a supernatural quality to the art. I believe, however, that it's more accurate to simply look at it as Tai Ji Boxing and interpret it as a style of boxing that is based on principles of Daoist philosophy embodied in the concept of Taiji. That is - soft is meaningless without hard, high without low and so on. Therefore, taiji applies these complimentary principles and uses soft against hard, high against low and so on. Furthermore, training in taiji allows one to develop extreme strength from extreme weakness and to contain extreme hardness within extreme softness and so forth... Whether it is the Supreme Ultimate martial art is certainly arguable but there's no question that the principles are deeply rooted in taiji philosophy.

Edited February 22, 2008 by xuesheng

[Stigweard]

[steve]

I sometimes tell my Tai Ji students that Quan meaning fist is like bringing form to the unformed hand, hence the Tai Ji 'form'. It is a form that encapsulates Tai Ji.

 

Is this explaination etymologically incorrect?

I'm not sure I get your meaning relative to quan. It sounds nice - forming the fist out of the unformed hand but I'm not sure how that relates to Taiji. That sounds more like Wuji perhaps. Please clarify if I'm misinterpreting you.

I simply look at the quan as referring to a method of boxing, as in Xingyiquan and others.

I definitely agree that The Taiji form is a form or structure that encapsulates Taiji principles...

[forestofsouls]

I find it interesting that I was just reading about the etymology of "personality". Apparantly from the Latin persona, referring to the masks worn my ancient actors to display emotion. The persona, I read, not only was able to show a large audience the inner traits of the character, but it also served as a voice amplifier since these were the times before PA systems.

 

Over time, it seems many of us use personality to refer to our essence. But really, in some regards, it is an artificial contruct created for a certain audience that may, in fact, mask our inner selves. It is a tool that broadcasts a part of us to the larger world. Yet many of us mistake our artificial masks or persona for our true selves.

[Stigweard]

I definitely agree that The Taiji form is a form or structure that encapsulates Taiji principles...

 

Yep that is all I was implying with the analogy.

 

Perhaps I am wrong when I associate "Taiji" with a state of formlessness???

[Stigweard]

[mat black]

[steve]

I find it interesting that I was just reading about the etymology of "personality". Apparantly from the Latin persona, referring to the masks worn my ancient actors to display emotion. The persona, I read, not only was able to show a large audience the inner traits of the character, but it also served as a voice amplifier since these were the times before PA systems.

 

Over time, it seems many of us use personality to refer to our essence. But really, in some regards, it is an artificial contruct created for a certain audience that may, in fact, mask our inner selves. It is a tool that broadcasts a part of us to the larger world. Yet many of us mistake our artificial masks or persona for our true selves.

Excellent post. I heard the same information in a lecture by Alan Watts. Perhaps there is, hidden somewhere in Greek or subsequent Western history, the knowlege that all is illusion and that our "personality" is just a mask, hiding our true nature. Interesting how appropriate the word is. Stig, you've definitely got something going here!

 

 

Perhaps I am wrong when I associate "Taiji" with a state of formlessness???

I don't consider myself to be enough of a scholar of Daoist philosophy to answer that definitively but I'll think out loud here. Certainly formlessness and form arise mutually and are mutually dependent as are front/back, black/white, being/non-being, and so on... In that sense Taiji would include both form and formlessness as one is the yin to the other's yang. So I think your initial representation makes sense.

Edited February 26, 2008 by xuesheng

[Stigweard]

I find it interesting that I was just reading about the etymology of "personality". Apparantly from the Latin persona, referring to the masks worn my ancient actors to display emotion. The persona, I read, not only was able to show a large audience the inner traits of the character, but it also served as a voice amplifier since these were the times before PA systems.

 

Over time, it seems many of us use personality to refer to our essence. But really, in some regards, it is an artificial contruct created for a certain audience that may, in fact, mask our inner selves. It is a tool that broadcasts a part of us to the larger world. Yet many of us mistake our artificial masks or persona for our true selves.

 

Thanks for this fos, just to extend and corroborate...

 

Personality of course comes from person arriving from the Old French persone "human being" which you have correctly revealed comes from the Latin persona "human being," originally "character in a drama, mask," possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask."

 

What is interesting is that this may be related to the Greek Persephone. Maybe just a moot point

[steve]

Impeccable - Generally defined as perfect, flawless but :

in- "not" + pecare "to sin" possibly of Indo-European origin

therefore - impeccable = incapable of sin or without sin

Interesting and makes sense in terms of modern usage.

At one time and to some people, perhaps nothing was more important than and certainly nothing more challenging than being free of sin...

[Stigweard]

Impeccable - Generally defined as perfect, flawless but :

in- "not" + pecare "to sin" possibly of Indo-European origin

therefore - impeccable = incapable of sin or without sin

Interesting and makes sense in terms of modern usage.

At one time and to some people, perhaps nothing was more important than and certainly nothing more challenging than being free of sin...

 

In the Aramaic Language and culture that Jesus taught in, the terms for "sin" and "evil" were archery terms. When the archer shot at the target and missed the scorekeeper yelled the Aramaic word for sin [khata]. It meant that you were off the mark, take another shot. The concept of sin was to be positive mental feedback. Sin is when you are operating from inaccurate information and thus a perceptual mis-take. When you become conscious and aware if the results of your inaccuracy you have the option to reconsider what you have learned and do as they do in Hollywood, "do another take." By the way, where the arrow fell when it missed the target was referred to as evil.

 

The Meaning of Sin and Evil

[Stigweard]

[Stigweard]

infect -- from the Latin "infectus" - "to spoil, stain".

 

 

Love ya Mal ... hehehe

 

 

LOL -- I just read the previous post "Egregore". Fitting perhaps yes?

Edited October 28, 2008 by Stigweard

[Mal]

no worries

 

and a fitting coincidence

[Dog]

[Apech]

[Stigweard]

[daoseeker]

I agree and I admit that a deeper understanding of the Chinese language is an area of learning I truly want to explore. If any members here have knowledge of Chinese etymology I would very much enjoy reading about it in this thread.

I have only just heard this 'bit' model recently elsewhere and am interested. Can you explain it further freeform? I get the 'guts' of the outline ... Where is this referenced from? What body of science are you drawing on here?

 

great post to dive into... and maybe get lost

 

I would like to hear from our Chinese friends what they have to say about the etymology of "DAO" generally, since that is the root of what we are discussing here.

 

I studied Chinese, also Classical Chinese on an academic level. I once translated 16th chapter of Daodejing with the motivation to get it's spiritual essence transferred into German.

Believe me, it took more than 3 months to really grasp it's meaning and etymology, by getting rid of sterotypes and pre-conditioned words and associations in my mind. Finally, when I check Amazon to see the 10.867,56 translations of Daodejing by all kinds of "give-it-a-try" western guys.... uuahh!

 

I have a calligraphy of "Daofa ziran" from a monk of Baxiangong in Xi'an in my living room - wonderful, powerful calligraphy, and I have found the meaning deep in my heart over years of practice and a bit by my academic education.

 

But honestly, I can still not express it in German or English.

 

(P.S.: it's funny to see western people diving into the etymology of a translated word, such as "Way" instead of "Dao" and then further interpretating "Way" to explain daoist principles.... hahaha ... that's totally off, sorry)