Limahong Posted June 15, 2019 6 hours ago, moment said: Is my thumb up a point? Hi Jim, 👍 ~ it is a good point. Thank you for such a gesture per that point of your moment. Are point and point similar? 3 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said: You guys have thumbs? Hi Rocky, Yes ~ we have both left and right thumbs... How about you? - Anand 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moment Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Limahong said: Hi Jim, 👍 ~ it is a good point. Thank you for such a gesture per that point of your moment. Are point and point similar? Hi Rocky, Yes ~ we have both left and right thumbs... How about you? - Anand Well done Edited June 15, 2019 by moment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Starjumper said: I know what a women's libber would say , "Tao doesn't give a shit about men, but she loves meee." Hi Steve, Is Tao ~ ex-Yinny? She supports feminism? Let her beee. Men ~ weee. - Anand 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moment Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said: You guys have thumbs?!?! Uber Prepared Edited June 15, 2019 by moment 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pilgrim Posted June 15, 2019 13 hours ago, Starjumper said: Sounds like you just smoked a joint, the miracle youth medicine from China. Roll another one. 😉😆😁😄👏🏼👍🏻 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 15, 2019 10 hours ago, Limahong said: nothing is permanent... fascinating. don't recall considering it quite so simply... but it seems nothing really is permanent, isn't it? nothing being no thing, does not change, thus... seems permanent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, moment said: I don't smoke pot or drink. You may have missed the point of my questions. Dawei is partially right in his answer about two different concepts. I am trying to get considerations going here about how concepts ( after a certain point inevitably hinder growth in Tao). I know that you know this from a certain perspective. You started your martial arts with concepts yet at a certain point it became an intuitive art. Good Jazz is another example. Concepts must give way if your are to get to a higher level. You experienced several Masters that showed this ability more than most, and I suspect that in many ways you experience the non-conceptual far more than average. One can not get beyond a certain level without it. Spontaneous improvisation in a high art form, for a lack of a better way to explain. I have experienced it in movement meditation such as Tai chi, I have experienced it in Kriya Yoga and I have experienced it in high stress combat situations where there was no conscious thought. I see these as windows. How about you Mr. Smith? Good stuff mate. I find such windows in my house. They are open briefly, but the view is earth shatteringly potent. There particularly seems a choicelessness in this state, a pure connected mindlessness as I recall my experiences, where though mind has gone utterly quiet, awareness is never more vibrant. Full presence. Where pure, authentic relevant action arises spontaneously without thought and flows without any perceived effort. Action, utterly pertinent to the exact conditions co-arising, as no story gets in the way, the storyteller is quiet, mind is blank, open and simply reflecting all. Clarity. Appropriate action arises naturally, action flows without tension or resistance of any kind. Pure action. In recall the words 'touches tao' seem to fit. Only after the window closes and identified mind returns, does the storytelling restart and the anaysis of what occured transpires. Time particularly reveals its seemingly fluid, subjective nature when experienced through such windows. And to specify, not mindless with the slightly pejorative western connotation of dumb and unconnected. Mindless in the eastern sense of vibrantly unobstructed, wholly present and aware without judgemental storyteller present. The kind of raw awareness where false notions we tend to identify with in daily sleeping life, evaporate in awake presence. Reminds me of Kali who, tongue drooling blood, dances on the reclining form of Shiva. Holding the severed head of 'identification with form' in one of her hands, severed by the sword of enlightened true seeing held in another. She also bears many gifts in her myriad other arms, for those capable of severing the head of mis-identification of absolute truth and self to receive. She typifies to my identified mind the truth I've experienced in moments returning to tao... of pure action/presence. And that is... when experiencing god, tao, awen... one transcends identified mind, forms, and notions of concepts. Like returning to the state of a child. Raw. Pure unobstructed presence. Beingness. Edited June 15, 2019 by silent thunder add the bit about time 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moment Posted June 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, silent thunder said: Good stuff mate. I find such windows in my house. They are open briefly, but the view is earth shatteringly potent. There particularly seems a choicelessness in this state, a pure connected mindlessness as I recall my experiences, where though mind has gone utterly quiet, awareness is never more vibrant. Full presence. Where pure, authentic relevant action arises spontaneously without thought and flows without any perceived effort. Action, utterly pertinent to the exact conditions co-arising, as no story gets in the way, the storyteller is quiet, mind is blank, open and simply reflecting all. Clarity. Appropriate action arises naturally, action flows without tension or resistance of any kind. Pure action. In recall the words 'touches tao' seem to fit. Only after the window closes and identified mind returns, does the storytelling restart and the anaysis of what occured transpires. And to specify, not mindless with the slightly pejorative western connotation of dumb and unconnected. Mindless in the eastern sense of vibrantly unobstructed, wholly present and aware without judgemental storyteller present. The kind of raw awareness where false notions we tend to identify with in daily sleeping life, evaporate in awake presence. Reminds me of Kali who, tongue drooling blood, dances on the reclining form of Shiva. Holding the severed head of 'identification with form' in one of her hands, severed by the sword of enlightened true seeing held in another. She also bears many gifts in her myriad other arms, for those capable of severing the head of mis-identification of absolute truth and self to receive. She typifies to my identified mind the truth I've experienced in moments returning to tao... of pure action/presence. And that is... when experiencing god, tao, awen... one transcends identified mind, forms, and notions of concepts. Like returning to the state of a child. Raw. Pure unobstructed presence. Beingness. Great connection, beautiful imagery, a pleasure. Thank you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, moment said: Time seems to slow down, your sense perceptions are heightened – colors are sharper and brighter and each sound seems to ripple right through you. Hi Jim, Your mind shifts into a better place... which seems to be one that you have not been to before - this life. Yet there is an uncanny remote sense of familiarity - from past life(s). A sense of vibrant aliveness and peace infuse your being... as though you are tapping into new sources of energy. Slowly you begin to develop a sense/awareness that all energies (physical, mental, sexual, emotional...) come from ONE source. Collectively they collapsed into ONE ~ as ENERGY. You feel in tune with life, moving with a precision and poise you don’t fully understand but, at the same time would gladly live in forever... and you ask ~ "is this what they are referring to as moving on a road less traveled of ONEness?" You’re into the zone of your own being. You’re into the flow of your own ENERGY ~ wu-wei-lessly. Is this being in harmony with Tao? Does conceptualizing, get in the way of attaining that harmony longer term and if so, what is to be done about that? Must I really do something? What are words all about?... and gradually you begin to stop questioning yourself because you realize everything is ONE... and you are part of ONE. - Anand Edited June 15, 2019 by Limahong Enhance ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 16, 2019 On 6/15/2019 at 12:22 PM, moment said: Concepts must give way if your are to get to a higher level. You experienced several Masters that showed this ability more than most, and I suspect that in many ways you experience the non-conceptual far more than average. One can not get beyond a certain level without it. Spontaneous improvisation in a high art form, for a lack of a better way to explain. Hi Jim, Concepts are like seeds to me and I ask (a) will all seeds germinate the same (b) is jing stored in these seeds (c)...? Are there eggs/chicken issues with jing, qi and shen at a higher level? Is ~ "Spontaneous improvisation in a high art form, for a lack of a better way to explain" ~ a part of a road less traveled which is self-challenging on uncharted water? - Anand 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted June 16, 2019 Adapt or suffer. This implies that the art of life is more like navigation than warfare, for what is important is to understand the winds, the tides, the currents, the seasons, and the principles of growth and decay, so that one’s actions may use them and not fight them. Not giving a fuck and true caring are different aspects of one and the same system, and that the disappearance of either one of them would be the disappearance of the system. so the sage cares without caring and is kind without being kind. In the center the two extreme poles are very easy to navigate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: In the center the two extreme poles are very easy to navigate. Hi Wu Ming Jen, Yes ~ we have a better sense of balance in the center e.g. a middle path... - Anand 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moment Posted June 16, 2019 Yes, we sorely need more of a center in this world. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 16, 2019 4 hours ago, moment said: We sorely need more of a center in this world. Hi Jim, In the physical world, the simplest case for balance ~ the center of gravity. But when laced with politics, power, corruption, fake news... ~ where is the center of balanced living? However when we look inward ~ we can search for it ... and find it? - Anand 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 16, 2019 On 6/15/2019 at 11:35 PM, silent thunder said: nothing being no thing, does not change, thus... seems permanent. Hi Creighton, Besides nothing - everything, something, anything... what have you... change. So? - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) deeply appreciating contradictions lately. reveling, dancing through paradox. sublime it seems grateful when perceptual projections do not reconcile readily so: if change is constant... as it seems in localized mind constancy is changability? if change is constant.. what is it that changes? and if change is constant... this is unchanging change? where does change occur? in reality what never changes? does it, can it register in awareness? is awareness unchanging? seems all things change, and this is a constant. so: seems my concept of constant is... somehow suddenly suspect. Edited June 16, 2019 by silent thunder 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, silent thunder said: seems my notion of constant is... somehow suddenly suspect. Hi Creighton, Yes/no ~ to each his/her own. No two persons ~ the same. Where is the constant? Good night. - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 16, 2019 yummy paradoxicals water constant in everchanging... unchangingly changeable afternoon mate! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, silent thunder said: water constant in everchanging... unchangingly changeable ice => water => vapor... H2O... trying to follow/approximate... jing => qi => shen? good morning my friend. Edited June 17, 2019 by Limahong Enhance ... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 17, 2019 hmm... are whirlpools made of water? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, silent thunder said: ...are whirlpools made of water? Hi Creighton, Whirlpools of what? If it is of the mind...then maybe ... 走火入魔 (pinyin: zǒu huǒ rù mó) It is a qigong deviation ~ a Chinese culture concept traditionally used to indicate that something has gone wrong in spiritual or martial arts training. The qigong community uses this term to describe a physiological or psychological disorder believed to result during or after qigong practice, due to "improper practice" of qigong and other self-cultivation techniques. The concept was highlighted in the social and political context of mass popularization of qigong in China. - Wikipedia 走火入魔 ~ whirlpools made of polluted water? - Anand 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Limahong said: Whirlpools of what? exactly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 17, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 12:03 AM, silent thunder said: Good stuff mate. I find such windows in my house. They are open briefly, but the view is earth shatteringly potent. Hi Creighton, There particularly seems a choicelessness in this state, a pure connected mindlessness as I recall my experiences, where though mind has gone utterly quiet, awareness is never more vibrant. Awareness is more than just the mind? Full presence. Where pure, authentic relevant action arises spontaneously without thought and flows without any perceived effort. Wu-wei? Action, utterly pertinent to the exact conditions co-arising, as no story gets in the way, the storyteller is quiet, mind is blank, open and simply reflecting all. Clarity. Appropriate action arises naturally, action flows without tension or resistance of any kind. Pure action. In recall the words 'touches tao' seem to fit. Feeling the moments ~ as is? Only after the window closes and identified mind returns, does the storytelling restart and the analysis of what occurred transpires. Words ~ returned? Time particularly reveals its seemingly fluid, subjective nature when experienced through such windows. Fluidity in more dimensions than just time? And to specify, not mindless with the slightly pejorative western connotation of dumb and unconnected. Mindless in the eastern sense of vibrantly unobstructed, wholly present and aware without judgmental storyteller present. The kind of raw awareness where false notions we tend to identify with in daily sleeping life, evaporate in awake presence. Feel... feel... feel... as is... without words? Reminds me of Kali who, tongue drooling blood, dances on the reclining form of Shiva. Holding the severed head of 'identification with form' in one of her hands, severed by the sword of enlightened true seeing held in another. She also bears many gifts in her myriad other arms, for those capable of severing the head of mis-identification of absolute truth and self to receive. She typifies to my identified mind the truth I've experienced in moments returning to tao... of pure action/presence. And that is... when experiencing god, tao, awen... one transcends identified mind, forms, and notions of concepts. Into ONE and ONEness? I find such windows in my house. They are open briefly, but the view is earth shatteringly potent. - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moment Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Limahong said: Hi Creighton, There particularly seems a choicelessness in this state, a pure connected mindlessness as I recall my experiences, where though mind has gone utterly quiet, awareness is never more vibrant. Awareness is more than just the mind? Full presence. Where pure, authentic relevant action arises spontaneously without thought and flows without any perceived effort. Wu-wei? Action, utterly pertinent to the exact conditions co-arising, as no story gets in the way, the storyteller is quiet, mind is blank, open and simply reflecting all. Clarity. Appropriate action arises naturally, action flows without tension or resistance of any kind. Pure action. In recall the words 'touches tao' seem to fit. Feeling the moments ~ as is? Only after the window closes and identified mind returns, does the storytelling restart and the analysis of what occurred transpires. Words ~ returned? Time particularly reveals its seemingly fluid, subjective nature when experienced through such windows. Fluidity in more dimensions than just time? And to specify, not mindless with the slightly pejorative western connotation of dumb and unconnected. Mindless in the eastern sense of vibrantly unobstructed, wholly present and aware without judgmental storyteller present. The kind of raw awareness where false notions we tend to identify with in daily sleeping life, evaporate in awake presence. Feel... feel... feel... as is... without words? Reminds me of Kali who, tongue drooling blood, dances on the reclining form of Shiva. Holding the severed head of 'identification with form' in one of her hands, severed by the sword of enlightened true seeing held in another. She also bears many gifts in her myriad other arms, for those capable of severing the head of mis-identification of absolute truth and self to receive. She typifies to my identified mind the truth I've experienced in moments returning to tao... of pure action/presence. And that is... when experiencing god, tao, awen... one transcends identified mind, forms, and notions of concepts. Into ONE and ONEness? I find such windows in my house. They are open briefly, but the view is earth shatteringly potent. - Anand Sometimes dissection leads to much less than the totality of its' parts. Having said that, I always find you entertaining and fun and your research skills are impressive. Edited June 17, 2019 by moment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 17, 2019 Quote As soon as you see something, you already start to intellectualize it. As soon as you intellectualize something, it is no longer what you saw. ~Shunryu Suzuki mmm. paradox for breakfast... again. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
