Will

How should I deal with political discussion? (Daoist perspective)

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On 02/04/2019 at 4:08 AM, Will said:

 

 

What kind of discussion is taking place, and with what kind of people ?

 

For the most part, people do not discuss politics but project emotional unhappiness onto each other in a sad dance.   There is no point being involved in such unhappiness as it is all entirely subconscious, like sludge being stirred by the half awake.  At the end everyone thinks they "feel justified" but is actually drained and unhappy.   There is so much negative energy that it pulls you in and down.

 

In unusual circumstances you might be able to have an actual discussion, which is part of normal human life and development.  It is especially useful if you are with people of a higher calibre.
However perhaps 5% of all discourse is in this category.

 

Good skills to develop are; discriminating strongly between the two cases.   And walking away without residue, even if you take a hit on the way you.

If you are in doubt which type of discussion it is, it is type A.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Song of the Dao said:

Does water flow where it wants?

My want just meant not doing what a daoist should do, whatever it is what a doaist has to do, just a random comment, nothing serious.

Hum, I think water follows their makeup and environment, some rivers don't mix

What is being water? will you be water when it actually matters and impacts you greatly? does being water makes everything go right? Will being water in a situation of danger make everything run well? Should I not try to punch my aggressor because I have to be like water to his actions?

(IMO kidnapped people, children, slaves fit water descriptions.)

 

Edited by King Jade

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35 minutes ago, King Jade said:

My want just meant not doing what a daoist should do, whatever it is what a doaist has to do, just a random comment, nothing serious.

Hum, I think water follows their makeup and environment, some rivers don't mix

What is being water? will you be water when it actually matters and impacts you greatly? does being water makes everything go right? Will being water in a situation of danger make everything run well? Should I not try to punch my aggressor because I have to be like water to his actions?

(IMO kidnapped people, children, slaves fit water descriptions.)

 

 

Water does not think. That is the distinction. It is a physical body reaction to not want to be a slave or kidnapped. No need to think about it.

Yes, water does not think where it wants to go, it goes where the topography dictates.

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5 minutes ago, Song of the Dao said:

... it goes where the topography dictates.

 

... As does the sage. ;)

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Incorrect.

 

Money and lots of it. The common person has no chance. Just the elites, just the elites.

 

 

Yes and the corrupt members of Congress primarily act as a if it was their job to provide entertainment for the ignorant masses,  rooting for their side in a sports event and accomplish little other than trying to win against the other side, or at the very least prevent them from getting their way or score a victory.

 

Exactly.

 

The system works because what is seen is a show for the masses. Just  show, and voting the illusion of some control.

 

Those running the show have been doing so since before any of us were born and it will continue once we are no more.

 

love this!

What may be more important for us not in the game is that we have a job and pay taxes.

 

actually I know it is important because there are laws to make sure that the government gets our money when we make money and spend money. Now that is a great system and I am glad people believe in the system and make a difference.

Edited by Wu Ming Jen
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11 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

While this is clearly about American politics, I believe some interesting and provocative thoughts are presented.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely. It certainly does feel like a popularity contest over susbstance.

 

I remember once, when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair over here. I was constantly hearing "the guy is SO boring".

 

Who cares if he can get the job done?

 

He couldn't get the job done, but my point still stands.

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5 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

love this!

What may be more important for us not in the game is that we have a job and pay taxes.

 

actually I know it is important because there are laws to make sure that the government gets our money when we make money and spend money. Now that is a great system and I am glad people believe in the system and make a difference.

 

How exactly do you mean that people make a difference? That part confused me...

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22 hours ago, wandelaar said:

they live in a (relatively) democratic society

 

I have a friend with a 4yr old boy. They always battle regarding bed time. But then my friend learned a clever trick...

 

When bedtime comes he tells his son: “Ok - it’s bedtime - you have a choice - you can either go to bed right now OR you can brush your teeth and go to bed in 10 minutes”

 

His son, satisfied with this freedom to choose always opts for the second option - and dutifully goes to bed in 10 minutes without any fuss...

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6 hours ago, Rara said:

 

How exactly do you mean that people make a difference? That part confused me...

That is funny. I was being sarcastic. Thank you for the LOL

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21 hours ago, joeblast said:

People should just stop using the word democracy, because nearly every time its used, its misused.

 

Clearly, you have some strong ideas on what democracy should be.

 

I think the general line of discussion here has centered around how Daoists ... being a part of the general population ... might react in political discussion and actions. I understood that in this context, democracy ... with a small "d" ... was referring to any system where the people play a significant deciding role in how governing happens.

 

That seems sufficient for the purposes of the discussion. In what way do you see it not sufficient and how would that bear on Daoist response?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Song of the Dao said:

Water does not think. That is the distinction. It is a physical body reaction to not want to be a slave or kidnapped. No need to think about it.

Yes, water does not think where it wants to go, it goes where the topography dictates.


Water metaphors don't apply IMO. Psychology, learned behavior, etc, it doesn't need thinking to be acted. Water is passive, maybe we are talking only about the property of water of going where it goes? (sage least resistance)  

Then we are not just water, we are also the container maker

2c

Edited by King Jade

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2 hours ago, King Jade said:


Water metaphors don't apply IMO. Psychology, learned behavior, etc, it doesn't need thinking to be acted. Water is passive, maybe we are talking only about the property of water of going where it goes? (sage least resistance)  

Then we are not just water, we are also the container maker

2c

 

Are people just making up Daoism here? The point of it is to get over your conditioning and get to the source, which is the Dao. Water is not passive, it is Wu Wei, acting without acting.
 

Quote


The supreme good is like water,
which nourishes all things without trying to.
It is content with the low places that people disdain.
Thus it is like the Tao.

In dwelling, live close to the ground.
In thinking, keep to the simple.
In conflict, be fair and generous.
In governing, don’t try to control.
In work, do what you enjoy.
In family life, be completely present.

 

 

Quote

 

Nothing in the world
is as soft and yielding as water.
Yet for dissolving the hard and inflexible,
nothing can surpass it.

The soft overcomes the hard;
the gentle overcomes the rigid.
Everyone knows this is true,
but few can put it into practice.

Therefore the Master remains
serene in the midst of sorrow.
Evil cannot enter his heart.
Because he has given up helping,
he is people’s greatest help.

True words seem paradoxical.

 

 

 

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On 05/04/2019 at 12:00 PM, Wu Ming Jen said:

That is funny. I was being sarcastic. Thank you for the LOL

 

Ah, well that makes more sense! It's hard to read sarcasm sometimes haha

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