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3bob

the wall, part of trumps insanity

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6 hours ago, dawei said:

We certainly can't blame Trump for the wall... the history and voting on it is easy to find.  He just wants to try and finish it, which will happen one of these days over the next 100 years.  The fact is, the sooner the better for several reasons, paramount would be costs and getting the problem under control so newer tactics can be decided on.

 

I'm not see much new in the charts as folks have talked about the decline... I think the caravans compound a major problem of resources.   

 

Both Bush's, Clinton and Obama send troops to the border, McCain pleaded for more troops and money as the border had 'greatly detoriated' adding that Congress needed to repeal the 2008 human trafficking law. “The message has to be, ‘If you cross our border illegally, you will be returned immediately,' ” he said.  Members were calling on  Obama to do something... Other members : “The reason we are witnessing the surge of unaccompanied alien children along our southwestern border is because the President and his Administration have refused to enforce existing immigration laws.  Time and again, this President has chosen to pursue his own policies that are in direct contradiction with U.S. law.  I’m calling on the President to obey the Rule of Law, and to quickly resolve the current situation at our southern border,”

 

Obama called it a 'crisis' and said, " Last month, 20,000 migrant children were illegally brought into the United States -- a dramatic increase," he said. "These children are used as human pawns by vicious coyotes and ruthless gangs."  A few years earlier he said, "I strongly believe that we should take on, once and for all, the issue of illegal immigration. And I am prepared to work with Republicans and Democrats to protect our borders, enforce our laws and address the millions of undocumented workers who are now living in the shadows,"" The Washington post called it 'epic proportions'.   The media as largely behind the idea of a 'crisis'.

 

The Huffington Post said the humanitarian crisis was 'shocking' (and provided photos).  NBC reported that flooding the border causes for the 'crisis'. there was no outrage when Obama said essentially the same thing that Trump has said.   They helped in much need apprehensions and drug seizures. 

 

There is a long history of agreement that the border becomes a crisis situation requiring military assistance... this is proof enough that an incomplete wall is a problem.   That we have to get the military to help in some form makes this an emergency as it means we don't have the man power to do the job in a normal fashion.   We should plug the holes and move on to better border security ideas for the next generations.

 

Trump can’t be blamed for the wall? I posted a link from Forbes awhile back and I guess you missed it or are ignoring facts. Alternative facts perhaps. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/04/where-the-idea-for-donald-trumps-wall-came-from/#5bb34dec4415

 

 

Quote

Donald Trump’s plan to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border did not come from security analysts following years of study or through evidence that a wall would reduce illegal immigration. Amazingly, for something so central to the current U.S. president, the wall came about as a “mnemonic device” thought up by a pair of political consultants to remind Donald Trump to talk about illegal immigration.

In 2014, Trump’s plan to run for president moved into high gear. His political confidant was consultant Roger Stone. “Inside Trump’s circle, the power of illegal immigration to manipulate popular sentiment was readily apparent, and his advisers brainstormed methods for keeping their attention-addled boss on message,” writes Joshua Green, author of Devil’s Bargain: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and the Nationalist Uprising. “They needed a trick, a mnemonic device. In the summer of 2014, they found one that clicked.”

 

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On 2/19/2019 at 7:58 PM, ralis said:

 

Trump can’t be blamed for the wall? I posted a link from Forbes awhile back and I guess you missed it or are ignoring facts. Alternative facts perhaps. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/04/where-the-idea-for-donald-trumps-wall-came-from/#5bb34dec4415

 

I appreciate the point you are making but EVERY president of the last 20 years has remarked to build it further...  It seems that more recently the connection to illegal immigration and drugs became more a campaign promise than in the past and it should not be held against a politican to try and fulfill their campaign promise which may of helped them get elected.

 

I'm for a smart approach to it which can include technology, terrain enhanced assistance, etc.   I've said somewhere, we're only at 30% covered on the border which is like trying to hold water with a sieve.    I'd like to see it finished so we can move on to better border security ideas.

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Trump is clearly and easily seen to be mentally ill.  And it is an extreme form of denial to not only follow the murky wanderings of a very clear pathological liar - but to then call his promise for Mexico to build a wall a commitment for US here in the USA to build a continuous wall when it cost is by Republican estimates north of 50 Billion - and it was not part of his campaign promise.

 

He promised a Free wall - from Mexico. (Bait and switch) And free lollipops for everyone. ANd yuuge fantastical things like over 8,000 lies in only two years!

 

The guy is a sleazy salesman - you may actually like what he is doing - but don’t put it through the dry cleaner - he an his thugs are lowlifes.

 

 

Edited by Spotless
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On 2/19/2019 at 6:58 PM, ralis said:

Trump can’t be blamed for the wall? I posted a link from Forbes awhile back and I guess you missed it or are ignoring facts. Alternative facts perhaps. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/04/where-the-idea-for-donald-trumps-wall-came-from/#5bb34dec4415

Well, he is simply the spokesman for 81% of White evangelical Christian men...and following their Biblical sermons citing Nehemiah.

Quote

‘God is not against building walls!’ The sermon Trump heard from Robert Jeffress before his inauguration.
Donald Trump heard a sermon Friday morning from a Southern Baptist pastor who has history of inflammatory remarks about Muslims, Mormons, Catholics and gays.
The sermon was delivered by Robert Jeffress, senior pastor of First Baptist Church, who compared Trump to the story of the biblical leader Nehemiah who helped rebuild the city of Jerusalem and its walls after the people of Judah had been exiled from the land of Israel.
Israel had been in bondage for decades, Jeffress explained, and the infrastructure of the country was in shambles, and God did not choose a politician or a priest but chose a builder instead. The first step of rebuilding the nation, Jeffress said, was the building of a wall around Jerusalem to protect its citizens from enemy attack.
“You see, God is not against building walls,” Jeffress said in his sermon at St. John’s Episcopal Church in D.C.
Nehemiah, according to the biblical account, completed the project in 52 days. Why was Nehemiah so successful in building the wall and rebuilding the nation? Jeffress said that Nehemiah refused to allow his critics to distract him, noting how some people still don’t believe Trump will succeed in his agenda.
Nehemiah, Jeffress said, had two antagonists named Sanballat and Tobiah. “They were the mainstream media of their day,” he said. “They continued to hound and heckle Nehemiah and spread false rumors while he and the Israelites were building the wall.”
Jeffress was an early supporter of Trump, a Presbyterian who courted evangelicals during the election. Jeffress said in his sermon that it was one year ago this weekend that he was with Trump on his jet flying around Iowa.  After sharing Wendy’s cheeseburgers, Jeffress said, he believed Trump would be the next president and that it would be because God placed him there.
Jeffress has said in the past that Obama paved the way for the antichrist. He drew wide attention when he condemned Mormonism as a “cult,” telling Christians not to vote for Mitt Romney during the 2012 Republican primary (though he later support Romney over Obama in the general election). Jeffress has also said Islam is an “evil religion,” that the Catholic Church was led astray by Satan and that gays live a “miserable” and “filthy” lifestyle.

So, here is the REAL "DEEP STATE"...over 2 BILLION STRONG...with a total bodycount probably near 100 million...and just "hidden" in plain sight all along!

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A nation needs boarders.  And rules for immigration, citizenship and entry.  Compassion's needed too.

 

We are a nation of immigrants, and a nation of hypocrites.  Immigrants (legal and illegal) pick our food, mow our lawns, build our buildings, take care of our elderly.  We need them, for there work and there future taxes.. and there vitality; they tend to be better at the American dream, then the average American.

 

So I'm willing to be a hypocrite to make illegal immigration hard, but not impossible or deadly..  Build fencing, but also allow in more legal immigrants, perhaps a new tier of short term status.  Create a computer check in/probation program; saying where you are, what you're doing.  For those doing well, a path to citizenship.  For those not.. short term is short term.  

 

A real solution has to holistic.  Covering what they need and what we need.  Intelligence and compassion.  Imperfect but not mass criminalizing.  Part of that may be economic partnerships.   Government and Business seeing what can be grown and built better over there.  How those profits can be used and expanded to create better conditions so there's less need to risk everything to come to the U.S.  Hard but worthwhile.

 

We are too wealthy and need to be too good to allow our neighbors to live in hopeless dystopia.  For there sake and ours.

 

It won't happen overnight, it won't be perfect, but a long term plan can be made, without vilification or too much injustice and we can find a sweet spot where the most people will benefit. 

Edited by thelerner
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