blackfence

Greatest Daoist masters?

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No not ironic sarcasm. It takes integrity to say oops. 

Its hard to even count so high as the number of spats which could be so easily avoided by just something so minor as that, or simply by agreeing that an opposing argument had its merits recognized. The tendency is to dig in ones heels and upon pain of death never to admit that new data or perspective had weight. 

Ive made errors , and will periodically continue to , not to admit them is a lie if they are shown to me to be so. But it really has to be solidly shown to be factually so. 

Its the nature of scientific enquiry to really establish fact as fact, and it requires the honesty that says oops ya got me there, or, look, I wasnt planning on making a big deal out of this ,it was just a casual assertion.

Its just a mature attitude nice to see.

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Does Zhuangzi have a cult anywhere as an immortal? Laozi was deified but I don't recall hearing anywhere of Zhuangzi getting similar treatment, despite his great importance.

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the best living Taoists might not be authors or giving seminars.  they're probably just doing there thing quietly. 

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1 hour ago, SirPalomides said:

Does Zhuangzi have a cult anywhere as an immortal? Laozi was deified but I don't recall hearing anywhere of Zhuangzi getting similar treatment, despite his great importance.

 

Zhuangzi in 道教=南華真人, sometimes just called 南華. There are some temples where he is honored. 

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That's cool. I had read that the book was officially given the title Nanhuajing, didn't realize the title also referred to his person.

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1 hour ago, SirPalomides said:

Does Zhuangzi have a cult anywhere as an immortal? Laozi was deified but I don't recall hearing anywhere of Zhuangzi getting similar treatment, despite his great importance.

 

Zhuangzi isn't considered an immortal. Literally just an author.

Edited by Rara

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10 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

Zhuangzi isn't considered an immortal.

 

If he's being called "zhenren" then it seems that he is.

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The main three are usually  Laozi, Zhuangzhi and Liezi...  I would add Shen Dao. 

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9 hours ago, Rara said:

Zhuangzi isn't considered an immortal. Literally just an author.

 

Well, that's not really the case.

 

Here is an example of Zhuangzi being referenced in Daoist liturgy: 

 

https://www.kanripo.org/text/KR5b0211/055?query=南華真人#055-012a

 

According to a commentary on the Zhuangzi included in a Song-era collection of Daoist texts, Zhuangzi was given the title Nanhua Zhenren during the Tang dynasty. He might have an even longer name used by Daoists in rituals or on display in temples where he is honored, but I'm not sure. 

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If you test the light energy of each of these, only Laozi creates a ping.   The rest are energy of the past. 

 

A more interesting question may be, who is the female counterpart :)

 

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15 minutes ago, dawei said:

If you test the light energy of each of these, only Laozi creates a ping.   The rest are energy of the past. 

 

A more interesting question may be, who is the female counterpart :)

 

 

That may be and you're not the first person I've heard say such a thing, but that doesn't not mean that Zhuangzi was not elevated to the level of immortal by later Daoist religionists and given the posthumous title of zhenren

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11 hours ago, Walker said:

 

Well, that's not really the case.

 

Here is an example of Zhuangzi being referenced in Daoist liturgy: 

 

https://www.kanripo.org/text/KR5b0211/055?query=南華真人#055-012a

 

According to a commentary on the Zhuangzi included in a Song-era collection of Daoist texts, Zhuangzi was given the title Nanhua Zhenren during the Tang dynasty. He might have an even longer name used by Daoists in rituals or on display in temples where he is honored, but I'm not sure. 

 

I was going to reply to @SirPalomides but with you sending this, I'll answer with the same thought, being....

 

...I guess it depends which sect you ask then! Useful to know anyway, because regardless, Zhuangzi is my favourite Daoist figure, so I have absolutely no shame in viewing him as an immortal/sage either way. Just like my Dad idolises Elvis Presley haha. I'm just not convinced that it was ever intended to be this way.

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Sometimes, I think the answer these masters would give us is a smile, a wink and a gleaming eye, and a "who cares, why not?!" :) 

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If not looking appalled and telling us to never mind such foolish talk, eat our veggies and jumping on a casually bystanding crane and take to the heavens shaking their head...

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 9:50 PM, dawei said:

If you test the light energy of each of these, only Laozi creates a ping.   The rest are energy of the past. 

 

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean but pretending to be dead when someone tries to "ping" him seems likes Zhuangzi's style.

Edited by SirPalomides
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16 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

If not looking appalled and telling us to never mind such foolish talk, eat our veggies and jumping on a casually bystanding crane and take to the heavens shaking their head...

 

Zhuangzi, mind you, would probably circle back on his crane and make that special Daoist crane-whisperer noise they make in its ear to have it poop on your head.

 

At least, I think that's crane poop.

 

Never mind, like Zhuangzi said, the Dao is even in piss and shit, just consider it a heavenly blessing and take it home and give it a prominent place on your altar and success is most assuredly assured :D 

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