David Verdesi's credentials and research

[DentyDao]

Accordingly, my support, money and complicity in your scam is also denied

 

...sound of crickets chirping...

[Buddy]

And yet you still respond....

[mwight]

...sound of crickets chirping...

 

Sean,

 

I may be stating the obvious but it seems these flame wars, are mostly because of the decision to charge for forum access. Perhaps a better strategy would be to make them free for students, and closed to the public.

I think that would hush up a lot of the nay sayers.

[sunshine]

Sean,

 

I may be stating the obvious but it seems these flame wars, are mostly because of the decision to charge for forum access. Perhaps a better strategy would be to make them free for students, and closed to the public.

I think that would hush up a lot of the nay sayers.

 

Had the same thought in mind. But if you do that others jump in on the picture and shout: "These cultists. Do not even leave the option of getting to know what is happening inside." "These elitists". "They keep secrets and do not want to share" etc. etc. etc.

 

I personally feel your suggestion to be a great one. Originally felt the same. It just won'T change the "flame wars", only the focus of those who like to lead them.

 

 

Harry

[Gamuret]

Mwight, not all people are obssessed with money and some of us give a damn if the forum is free or of charge.

This world is indeed going from bad to worse, but there are still some people who might try to find the truth, for the sake of Truth itself and not for any other ulterior motive.

 

I've finished with my remarks. The thread has anyway devolved into non-sense and judgemental debate.

 

Nobody is interested for sticking up to the facts.

 

G.

[affenbrot]

[Matt]

Edited November 9, 2008 by Matt

[Hern Heng]

Okay, sorry, i was working, so i missed a few comments. i'll lump them all into one reply.

 

And yet you still respond....

 

Exactly Buddy. The dude wants the moral high ground of SAYING he's just walking away from the argument but he doesn't have the ability to let someone else actually have the last world.

 

Damn Hern, You just joined this forum yesterday and you already have 23 posts? You should get a job or something dude.

 

Why on Earth would you jump to the conclusion that i am not in fact posting - at least in major part - from a remarkably easy and high paying career? The reality is that my career (far from high paying), affords me the time to post on here if i so chose. Nevertheless, i have chosen to come on here - not because i have nothing better to do but - because i do not care for what i am seeing. i feel the natural urge to say something about it. As such, i feel it is healthiest if i let out my feelings about the matter - in a public forum - both for my own well being and so Sean, David or any of their friends, can have the opportunity to respond to what i'll tell anyone else who asks (and as i mentioned, this was brought up to me before i ever said a word).

 

Amusingly, and as an addendum, i've noticed that anytime you see folks protesting anything status quo, there is always someone to say "get a job." i kick on the ol' AM radio now and then and catch my share of rabid conservative talk show hosts. It is utterly stereotypical for Rush or Hannity to revert to "why don't these people get a job" when they are backed into a corner.

 

It's not that i'm complaining; i'm just letting you know that it is obvious to everyone who hasn't drank the Kool Aid that your shit is a scam.

 

Mwight, not all people are obssessed with money and some of us give a damn if the forum is free or of charge.

 

Yes, if it weren't charging there are still all of the other issues related to it. The ridiculous "Contact Fees" are just the nail in the coffin.

[Cameron]

This discussion is just disrespectful.

 

I know, I know, I know, it's almost become like a tradition here now. We can't seem to get through the week without dissing a high level teacher or system.

 

When you point a finger at someone, look where the other fingers are pointing.

 

I met Sean D at the first Kunlun workshop and he struck me as being a very sincere and serious student. Wang Liping is obviously super high level. If David is an inner door student and people are drawn to study the system there is really nothing to discuss.

 

Regarding the forum fees. I am deticating myself to practicing Max's system for now but will pay the fee when I can because it's interesting to me enough and I like hearing about fellow Tao practioners practices.

 

It's there forum and system. If you have a problem don't pay.

[Hern Heng]

It's this simple: IF Sean is a disciple of Wang, Li-Ping then he should have something to prove it. If he doesn't then he's not his fucking disciple.

 

Disrespectful my ass

[Cameron]

Prove it?

 

Sean is a beginner. He basically started practicing with David like a year or two ago. Just because he is Wang Liping's student doesn't necissarilly mean he can start blazing fires by pointing his finger at something.

 

Get a grip man. We are all students learning here. Sean has been up front that he is a beginner and not the teacher. He does say his teacher David has reached a high level but why should he need to prove himself to people who are disrespectful?

 

Either pay the money and go to China and see for yourself or let it go and move on.

 

I haven't really heard a single person who has done the David Shen China training complain that they got ripped off or that the Masters were frauds. If people started coming back from the training saying that maybe you would have a leg to stand on with all this but they don't, they seem happy.

 

It's like WYG and Kunlun. Most everyone with the exception of a couple people doing Max's workshops are having tremendously positive experiences but he expects Max to produce a video of himself levitating so he can 'prove himself' to him.

 

Get a grip. None of these high level teachers owe you anything. If you think it's bogus don't go. If you don't go and continue attacking Sean(a relative beginner in the system he is studying) your wasting your time.

 

If you want my advice give it 3 or 4 years for people who are studying with David Shen to start reporting back there experiences. Until then there is really nothing to say just disrespectful speculation.

 

Cam

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Cameron,

 

I question everything dont get caught up with your emotions! Since his website has so many abilities that can be attained i ask who of you have attained them apart the japanese bunch that scream and orgasm when max looks at them or points at them. I dont doubt anything just question people when i see then typed up on a webpage with superhuman type claims.

 

Making a clip of these abilties would shut most of us up wouldnt you agree, well it would for me!!!

 

 

I envy David for learning under Wang Li Ping!

 

WYG

[Cameron]

Well, I agree with you to a point that it probably would be best to have those sort of claims off there.

 

I don't doubt what Max says but it can be a bit of a sidetrack.

 

I will try not to get caught up in my emotions, thanks

[Hern Heng]

Prove it?

 

Sean is a beginner. He basically started practicing with David like a year or two ago. Just because he is Wang Liping's student doesn't necissarilly mean he can start blazing fires by pointing his finger at something.

 

Get a grip man. We are all students learning here. Sean has been up front that he is a beginner and not the teacher. He does say his teacher David has reached a high level but why should he need to prove himself to people who are disrespectful?

 

Either pay the money and go to China and see for yourself or let it go and move on.

 

I haven't really heard a single person who has done the David Shen China training complain that they got ripped off or that the Masters were frauds. If people started coming back from the training saying that maybe you would have a leg to stand on with all this but they don't, they seem happy.

 

It's like WYG and Kunlun. Most everyone with the exception of a couple people doing Max's workshops are having tremendously positive experiences but he expects Max to produce a video of himself levitating so he can 'prove himself' to him.

 

Get a grip. None of these high level teachers owe you anything. If you think it's bogus don't go. If you don't go and continue attacking Sean(a relative beginner in the system he is studying) your wasting your time.

 

If you want my advice give it 3 or 4 years for people who are studying with David Shen to start reporting back there experiences. Until then there is really nothing to say just disrespectful speculation.

 

Cam

 

 

It's just not that simple. If i don't want to let it go then i'm under no obligation to let it go.

 

You say that David and Sean are under no obligation to prove that they know anything. That's fine, and i'm under no obligation to stop pulling their cards.

 

You admit Sean can't do anything out of the ordinary.

 

You claim David can but won't say what or YouTube it.

 

This is because the dude can't do shit.

[Cameron]

Ok..I think I need to bow out of this thread..I don't know David so can't comment on what he can or can't do.

 

I did think the purpouse of his training was to learn a path called Lei Shan Dao not demonstrate what he could do, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

It's like my teacher, Lama Max, supposedly has abilities or whatever but all I am really interested in are the practices. The siddhis are mostly irrelevant to me. To make a big deal about power and what you can or can't do seems off track to me.

 

Isn't this about enlightenment?

[Pietro]

Prove it?

 

Sean is a beginner. He basically started practicing with David like a year or two ago. Just because he is Wang Liping's student doesn't necissarilly mean he can start blazing fires by pointing his finger at something.

 

Get a grip man. We are all students learning here. Sean has been up front that he is a beginner and not the teacher. He does say his teacher David has reached a high level but why should he need to prove himself to people who are disrespectful?

 

Either pay the money and go to China and see for yourself or let it go and move on.

 

I haven't really heard a single person who has done the David Shen China training complain that they got ripped off or that the Masters were frauds. If people started coming back from the training saying that maybe you would have a leg to stand on with all this but they don't, they seem happy.

 

It's like WYG and Kunlun. Most everyone with the exception of a couple people doing Max's workshops are having tremendously positive experiences but he expects Max to produce a video of himself levitating so he can 'prove himself' to him.

 

Get a grip. None of these high level teachers owe you anything. If you think it's bogus don't go. If you don't go and continue attacking Sean(a relative beginner in the system he is studying) your wasting your time.

 

If you want my advice give it 3 or 4 years for people who are studying with David Shen to start reporting back there experiences. Until then there is really nothing to say just disrespectful speculation.

 

Cam

Cam,

you said something really wise here. (in bold)

 

Way to go!

Pietro

 

Friends, Romans, Countrymen (oops, the wrong speech!)

 

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen..........

 

the whole discussion originally intended to be sober and fact-oriented is more and more devolving into a discussion heavily tainted by personal sentiment. We are all humans, but I on my part tried to keep the personal part as much as I was able to in check, while posting here in the public.

 

...

"Gamuret",

I think your question has been answered:

David's website has taken off the Dr. title.

Isn't this enough of an answer?

 

Maybe you should re-address the question according to what is being stated now,

not according to what was being stated, or implied, before (incidentally by his students, since I do not believe that David wrote the website himself).

 

Keep on hitting the fog, and eventually you'll find where the meat is.

 

Pietro

[jan1107]

Friends, Romans, Countrymen (oops, the wrong speech!)

 

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen................... and that fat Chinese cat from Sichuan sitting in the last row -

,

 

.[/color][/b][/size][/font]

 

END OF QUOTE

 

Yours truly retreating again into the background,

 

Gamuret

 

i didnt read your post yet but i immediately clicked on the link.

 

THE FAT CAT!!!

 

I STILL HAVE TEARS OF LAUGHTER IN MY FACE!!!

 

man .... thank you so much for that link. you made my day.

 

so funny!

 

i laughed for 7 minutes straight (did kunlun this morning ... no wonder). i recorded the whole laughter attack and now i can play it over and over again and laugh my ass off ...

Edited February 6, 2008 by jan1107

[Matt]

Edited November 9, 2008 by Matt

[Pietro]

When did Sean say he was a disciple of Wang Liping?

He did not say he was a disciple, he said he studied with him. Here:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...ost&p=52158

 

But you are right, this does not mean to be a disciple.

 

...

i laughed for 7 minutes straight (did kunlun this morning ... no wonder). i recorded the whole laughter attack and now i can play it over and over again and laugh my ass off ...

wow, you should post the mp3 of it.

Now that would be funny!

[jan1107]

He did not say he was a disciple, he said he studied with him. Here:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...ost&p=52158

 

But you are right, this does not mean to be a disciple.

wow, you should post the mp3 of it.

Now that would be funny!

 

hey pietro

 

maybe i will.

but maybe this should be in an extra thread.

 

love jan.

[mwight]

Mwight, not all people are obssessed with money and some of us give a damn if the forum is free or of charge.

This world is indeed going from bad to worse, but there are still some people who might try to find the truth, for the sake of Truth itself and not for any other ulterior motive.

 

I've finished with my remarks. The thread has anyway devolved into non-sense and judgemental debate.

 

Nobody is interested for sticking up to the facts.

 

G.

 

Not all, but most. It's odd that all the flaming of Verdesi happens right after his forum goes PPV. More than anything it sounds like sour grapes to me.

Edited February 6, 2008 by mwight

[vitagong]

Not all, but most. It's odd that all the flaming of Verdesi happens right after the forum goes PPV. More than anything it sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

 

I think it's more that the obvious became very very obvious. It's all just moved up a level. Davids team want to advertise and dangle the carrot but never show the product.

[Hern Heng]

Ok..I think I need to bow out of this thread..I don't know David so can't comment on what he can or can't do.

 

I did think the purpouse of his training was to learn a path called Lei Shan Dao not demonstrate what he could do, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

It's like my teacher, Lama Max, supposedly has abilities or whatever but all I am really interested in are the practices. The siddhis are mostly irrelevant to me. To make a big deal about power and what you can or can't do seems off track to me.

 

Isn't this about enlightenment?

 

How utterly humble of him!

 

...the only problem is that he keeps advertising himself and charging people money to do nothing. He charges people (as does Sean), a successive (and progressively increasing), number of "Contact Fees" to tell them about seminars and provide them with information that is free to them.

 

He advertises himself, with implied and outrightly falsified (Yin-Yang Kung), claims that he has replicated an impressive level of their power.

 

...still, he shows nothing.

 

Showing nothing is FINE, as long as you aren't saying publicly that you can do something that you are unwilling to show.

 

If i tell you i can do a certain technique then i better be able to show you if called upon to. If i tell you to come to a seminar where i will teach you techniques then i sure as Hell better be able to show you. If i charge you to introduce you to my Shrfu or Shrye or Shrgong, etc. based on me saying i can do what you have heard they can do, then i sure as holy-shit-motherfucking-hell better be able to show this if called upon.

 

I haven't really heard a single person who has done the David Shen China training complain that they got ripped off or that the Masters were frauds. If people started coming back from the training saying that maybe you would have a leg to stand on with all this but they don't, they seem happy.

 

Actually there is a five page long thread that i reposted the link to that does exactly this.

[Gamuret]

Below you will find a brief PM exchange between me and Sean Denty. Judge for yourself - as said I'm out of all this. Have seen enough of it. The discussion is deteriorating away from the facts.

 

Just one word for you Sean - it was you who contacted me first privately not vice-versa. You are now trying to turn tables on me - as many others on this forum I have chosen to remain incognito, because I value my privacy. Tell me how would David Verdesi feel if his mobile-phone number in China, his place of residence, etc. would be published here?

 

On the other hand David Verdesi is a public figure and you guys are putting forward heavy claims in order to give your bussiness a veneer of respectability and excellence.

 

I on the other hand am not a public figure and I don't advertise anything. I didn't pass any judgement about David Verdesi as a person or his school. I was merely inquiring about his credentials.

 

AND FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE READ THIS: MICHAEL SASO - A RESPECTABLE SCHOLAR WHO WORKED FOR 10 YEARS IN THE TAIWANESE DAOIST COMMUNITY. HE SPEAKS FLUENTLY CHINESE, JAPANESE AND HAS ALSO MASTERED CLASSICAL CHINESE! HE IS NOT AFRAID TO LET OTHER PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT HIS CREDENTIALS. AND HIS NOT MAKING EXAGGARATED CLAIMS.

 

AGAIN FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Saso

 

Here is the correspodence. I unfortunately didn't save all my replies. But here is the gist of it plus Sean Denty's answers (in red). I must again emphasize that Sean Denty contacted me fist. My PM is in blue. I didn't want to join his forum, because I'm just interested in facts. I'm not interested in talking with him on the phone, because I like to keep track of other people's answers so that I can quote them later, if there are any problems

 

----------------------------------

 

Hey, Yesterday, 09:09 AM

 

Just wanted to let you know that I would be happy to share some of my experiences with privately. I can't speak with authority on David's research activities, but I can talk about some of the personal research and what I've seen.

 

I went through a phase of sharing about David on TB, but it really wasn't the best approach.

 

Anyway if you have sincere interest, I'm available.

 

SeanHello Sean!

 

Nice to hear from you. Look, I don't want to be a pain in the ass, but I'm really interested in your teacher's credentials. The questions still stand as you can see from my last post in the thread that I initiated. As you could also see I didn't make or at least tried to avoid to make any comments or passing judgement about your school or what David Verdesi's teaches. Why? Because I simply don't know and it would be unfair to do so.

 

I can imagine that you are in regular contact with your teacher and I'd really appreciate it if you could ask him these questions or if it's too much to inquire about everything in one go, then just the following one's:

 

"At which university and when exactly did David Verdesi acquire his doctorate?"

 

"At which university and in what period of time did David Verdesi engage in undergraduate and postgraduate studies?"

 

"The name of just ONE 'major university and hospital' in the U. S. and China respectively with which David Verdesi did his 'collaborative research' + information when did this happen and what kind of research was it.'"

 

If you care to speak about your experiences, then please tell me the entire and whole story of David's teacher Da Zhen i. e. how he met him and where, etc? Please don't misunderstand me - I'm not asking for his address, because I know that D. Verdesi places great value on protecting the privacy of his teachers and I anyway wouldn't get it. I'm just asking this, because it was stated in one of your old posts that Da Zhen is widely known in the Chinese province of Heilongjiang. Which city or region in Heilongjiang, if you can tell me and if not just leave it and I won't press the issue. Where is Da Zhen now? Is D. Verdesi still in contact with him? As said if you cannot answer, just leave it.

 

I'm asking so much about Da Zhen, because I'm really interested in alchemy. And in this regard, I already have another question. Tell me more about those Daoists who are supposed to be 300-years old or something and who solidified mercury for D. Verdesi by simply touching it. Where and above all how did he meet them?

 

I'm interested in solid things, not some wishy-washy New-Age la-la. If you don't know, just say it. If you don't want to or cannot answer - yes you guess what's coming - just say it. I like meat on the bones not foam in the water. Sorry for being so blunt.

 

Regards,

 

Gamuret also known as Senor Gamureto

 

Re:Hey, Yesterday, 04:07 PM

 

Drop me a line if you feel like talking. The next couple days are good for me.

 

(personal phone number edited as to protect Sean Denty's privacy).

 

Cheers, Sean

 

Re:Hey, Yesterday, 06:01 PM

 

ok, I don't bite you know. I'm just an average guy, so no need to worry.

 

Anyway, I'll do my best to answer your questions. Why don't we do this. I'll let you in the forum for a few days so you can read through some of the stuff there. Send me an email and I'll set up an account.

 

I'll also write something as a response to your questions.

 

Yours, Sean

 

Re:Hey, Yesterday, 06:30 PM

 

I see. Well I'll write something up then and send it to you.

 

Best, Sean

 

Re:Hey, Today, 08:28 AM

 

Hi,

 

Well even though you lack manners and the way you approached me was immature and childish to say the least, I am interested to know the answers to your questions myself.

 

After the last three demanding and rather rude PMs from you, I have decided to share what I find out on our private forum.

 

I did speak to David last night, he gave me a list of contacts and information that I will post there and personally follow up on.

 

Obliviously if there were public, peer reviewed studies openly available, we would not be having this conversation. Much of David's work was done behind closed doors and not published.

 

However, there are some details that can be tracked. The names of professors in New York, Vienna and China that he worked with are listed among other things. I met the one from Vienna and discussed the work they are doing. And yes, he does hold a PhD, although he does not currently hold a position at a university; he will likely in the next years.

 

There's a lot more I could say, but it seems that you are not even willing to reveal your identity or speak with me.

 

Good luck on your search. It dawned on me last night that you might very well be some punk in his 20's without any real experience or schooling, which would explain your behavior.

 

Anyway, if you are willing to introduce your self to me and tell me about your self in a polite way, like any normal person would, I'll happily provide the names of professors and institutions David worked with.

 

It would also be nice to know what University you did your post graduate work. I did my Masters in Education at Western Oregon University, you can look it up.

 

If you do not have legit academic credentials, please don't bother to contact me again, unless you provide a written apology for your behavior.

 

Folks, knock yourself out. I'm not playing the game anymore. Will do my own research, through my own channels.

[sheng zhen]

I'm not interested in talking with him on the phone, because I like to keep track of other people's answers so that I can quote them later, if there are any problems

Youre paranoid man... please go see a phyciatrist...