Victor

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Hello everybody,

I'm new to the forum.

I'm a male 21 years old guy from Italy, I came across Qigong practice due to a minor health issue but the more I read and learn the more I would like to understand and experiment with this ancient practice.

At the moment I'm practising level 1 XiangGong, also known as  Fragrant Qigong, but sadly I needed to learn it from the Internet due to the lack of good teachers in my area.

 

I wish everyone happy learning and experimentations, and pretty soon I will post in the dedicated area of the forum some questions about correct Qigong pratice.

 

Thank you very much for keeping alive the research and learnings about this extremely fascinating arts.

I would like to wish everybody a good evening and also to apologize if my english sounds a bit rusty or verbose.:lol:

 

 

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Hello, Victor, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome Victor,

 

Your english is just fine. :) There's a few practitioners of Fragrant Qigong around here, along with knowledgeable people from other traditions.  I'm sure you'll find what you need here.  Looking forward to reading your posts.

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

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1 hour ago, Victor said:

learning and experimentations

 

HI Victor,

 

Great marriage of words.

 

Welcome to TDB,

 

- LimA

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Thank you very much for your warm welcome.

 

I encourage every practioner of XiangGong reading this presentation to answer to this thread or to send me a brief pm with their experience and thoughts on this practice.

If i may expand a little bit my presentation, I will add some information about me and my interests.

 

I'm a chemical engineering student and an avid reader,(when my limited time allows it:huh:) and bass guitar and drums player. Often, during music practice, i find myself in a sort of meditative mood and for this reason I am very keen to further understand how meditation works and it's related to our mind.

I also practice weightlifting and found it to be a very good activity for body and mind,  althought I'm still almost a complete novice in this field.

 

Regarding to Qigong and general energy arts, I started practising and reading due to a health issue, something called pudendal neuropathy or also chronic pelvic pain syndrome, that I happen to have in a mild way. Sadly this condition is almost unknown and not totally curable by modern western medicine, so I expanded my researches into Chinese medicine,  particulary in Qigong.

I also have some mild tinnitus, probably due to drum practice, but it never bothered me very much.

 

Regarding my "education" in this fields, I only learned from online sources, youtube videos and forums.

So far, I've red some books from the YMAA from Dr. Yang, like Meridian Qigong, Eight brocades and Muscle/Tendon Changing classic. I've also red the booklet of the American Qigong association about XiangGong level one and some other booklets.

 

About my practice, until now I practised for a very short time and never personally with a master;

So far I practised the 8 Pieces of brocades as described by Dr. Yang for about four months and found it to be really beneficial for mood, focus and general muscle equilibrium , but I didn't notice any improvement in my condition.

 

One month ago I started  XiangGong practice and stopped others practices as said in the booklet, and I experienced a small but noticeable improvement in mood, focus, and muscle spams and pains that is linked to my neuropathy. Also, my tinnitus improved dramatically going from 5 to 0,5 in a 10-0 scale.

 

Thanks to anybody reading this wall of text:blush:, have a good evening! 

Edited by Victor
grammar errors
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Hi Victor.  Welcome.

 

I enjoy listening to Italians speak English.  Especially the women.

 

However, my favorite English speaking Italian is Frankie Laine.  I know, you may not have heard of him but he is a wonderful singer.

 

I'm sure you will find many members to speak with regarding your interest.

 

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10 hours ago, Marblehead said:

However, my favorite English speaking Italian is Frankie Laine.  I know, you may not have heard of him but he is a wonderful singer.

 

Hi Victor,

 

This is Frankie Laine:

 

 

 

- LimA

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14 hours ago, Victor said:

I experienced a small but noticeable improvement in mood, focus, and muscle spams and pains that is linked to my neuropathy.

 

Hi Victor,

 

Great - mind over body?

 

- LimA

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Hello everyone, I'm continuing the XiangGong practice and I think I'll stick to it for at least another five months, as the Master suggests. However, I liked very much the mental focus required from other QiGong forms, so my question is: considering that my main focus is health and secondly mood/behavioral development, would it be wise to explore other forms (that are suitable for a beginner like the 8 brocades) togheter with Zhan Zhuang? How much time is required to "experiment" if a QiGong form resonates well with me?

Skimming on the forum I red a lot about other forms but being a musician I know how important are the basics, so I don't want to get lost in advanced practice but rather to build a strong foundation that will serve me for life while I experiment with variuos forms. Again, thank you for every bit of knowledge shared, I hope to write soon a report and share my personal experience with Fragrant Qigong.:D

 

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Ok, since I completed 100 days of fragrant qigong (109 more exactly), I would like to share with you my experience and of course ask some questions. Maybe this is not the right discussion but I do think that I'm too much a beginner to have a personal experience diary like the ones that are on the forum.

So here we go:

109 days of continuos Fragrant practice, with my best possibile attention to practice details and physical execution. I practised 2 times a day, sometimes one due to circumstances, but the principle has been to never let 24 hours pass without practice. I did the first level, 54 repetition of each exercise. 

Regarding the health problem that I had, I do feel that is slowly changing. I must say it partially resolved, even if the evolution was  and still is almost unnoticeable. Regarding general health, I do have some observations, that are probably obvious to the seasoned pratictioner but surprised me:

-Better flexibility, more strenght and need to move and workout.

-Better mental clarity, I do concentrate more easily and do not feel the need do to more activities at one time.

-Decreased appetite and slightly better sleep, but frequent (almost every night) and absolutely crazy dreams, ranging from street fights to fantasy settings to absolutely crazy sexual fanstasies.

-This one is really strange: I do think my senses sharpened a bit. The more affected is sight: I've always had excellent sight, but now I can read and study for long hours without signs of fatigue, I've completely lost light sensibility and notice details that are very far or very close. Also my hearing got finer, and my tinnitus lessened from a 10 to a 4. 

-I feel emotionally more stable, but at the same time feel the need for emotional exploration; I had some periods of strange ups and downs and really aggressive and immotivate outburts; they felt really strange as I've always been a cool and calm person; those moments were mostly triggered by close proximity with family members, so I'm starting to understand what is the 'emotional purging' I've red here on the forum and been told about.

-My general view on life shifted and keeps shifting. I've become more assertive, kind, scientific in my way of thinking and interested in phylosophical and even spiritual matters. I also observed that I go through period of general grumpiness and need to be alone, but they last usually only one or two days, and then I go back to the above description.

 

Observation during the practice:

Since the end of the first month, almost every time I finsh my practice I experience very enjoable chills, and feelings of something reaching my head running along the spine; Also, during the stillness meditation part of the practice I often go through visions of colours, light and strange body feelings. I sometime get really sexually excited, but for what I've red on the forum all the above are normal. The only thing that worried me a bit was the feeling of pressure on the head during the second month, that is now gone.

 

To be sintetic, I'm enjoying very much the practice, and it's become the most important thing of my day. I do think I will complete the six months required by the Master and try the second level, since I'm very curious about it. It seem to have impacted health positively also.

 

Now the questions:

1)This Qigong is not really demanding on a physical point of view, and carries some obligation like not practicing with other systems. I would like to experiment a routine with more strenuos forms  (also more 'punishing' on a mental/spiritual level) and stillness meditation, like zhan zhuang or chakra meditation (would like to learn more about this one for sure). Which forms do you think are suitable for a beginner?

 

2)This is more a general question, and I hope it will begin a large discussion: does every form of energy work lead to the same goal, with different routes, or are they set to achieve different things? Not that there is a goal at all to be achieved, but do you think that a way equals another, provided it works for the practioner?

 

Thanks to anyone reading and helping me in the early steps.

I really hope to start a profound discussion and help someone with my little experience. 

^_^:blush:

 

 

 

 

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that's great.  Thank you for sharing your experience.  I'm unfamiliar with Fragrance qigong, but I'll have to look it up in a youtube. 

 

 

I like zhan Zhuang.   Lately there's a guided meditation I'll listen to that has chakra work (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDvSV0y0SHs&list=PLqktjn8c06SxO1f_1xZgJoTsi4rBF_jH1&index=1)

note I've made a shortened mp3 version of the above that cuts straight to the chakra part. 

 

I don't find either to be too physically demanding, though I generally keep my ZZ to 15 minutes. 

 

Different forms have different goals.  Undoubtedly there's some overlap though.

 

 

 

 

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ZZ is a good option, also here is a yiquan form (remember you are meant to relax and soften the soft tissues through):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvIw3BzobTg

 

You could also do Tai Chi Circling Hands (Energy Arts, BK Francis) with is $200, but very good.

 

Working with chakras is a different kettle of fish and might disturb fragrant, but for instance in that yiquan form there is the development of the dantien, heart, solar plexus so some work is included there and it is more compatible with fragrant.

 

You could add in daily meditation sittings, either in the Zen style (very compatible) read Zen Mind Beginners Mind, or if you prefer vipassana.

 

 

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Thank you for your contribuitions to this discussion! I think I'll try some of those practices:lol: I was also wondering what's your opinion on yoga? I'm asking because there is a teacher near my house (even though I don't know if he's legit in a traditional sense). 

I whish you a pleasant evening

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1 hour ago, Victor said:

 

Yoga ... whether it is good or bad largely depends on the hotness factor of the chicks in the class, doesn't it ?

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On 23/11/2018 at 6:40 PM, rideforever said:

Yoga ... whether it is good or bad largely depends on the hotness factor of the chicks in the class, doesn't it ?

That's surely the most important thing in every practice;)

 

Jokes aside, this morning while doing my daily fragrant practice I had an unknown feeling: I started to fiercely hate my practice, and thinking it was wasted time and so on, and wanted to stop and try other styles. This is very odd for me as I usually enjoy practice very much. What do you think it could be? 

 

Personally, I tought it was something similar to self-sabotaging of the mind or thinks like that, but I really am a total beginner. I will continue my practice, but this thing really surprised me. 

Again, thanks to anybody sharing their knowledge, have a good day  :)

 

Edited by Victor
typo
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Well it can easily be the arising of negative energy .... coming out of you.

Which is sort of the idea.

Do some grounding work.

Anyway don't stop so easily.

 

But it is also true that you are supposed to like Qigong with the Inner Smile, and that's a big part of the healing, to actually be happy and do things you want to do.   I quite like the shamanic stuff like five anmals and dayan for that, flying high in the sky breathing the red heart energy ... and I also like to do Circling Hands and BKF stuff because there are a lot of cool things to learn.

 

Friday/ Saturday is a good day to have a go at something different, I find.   There is the something new energy on those days.

 

Anyway have to see the dentist in a minute ha

 

 

 

 

 

Actually it was ....quite nice.   Only 2 injections.  Ha ha ha .....

 

 

Edited by rideforever

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Thanks for the advice, I won't stop the fragrant until reaching six months of continuous practice, I was just reporting this observation though!😁

 

Fun fact for the dentist: six months ago my dentist gave me an x-ray of the jaw and found a "hole" in the bone, an area of demineralization. Since I've never had problem with that, he decided not to attemp anything, but just to periodically check it. magic happened and one month ago we discovered that it almost totally disappeared. I don't know if it's the qigong, but this happened and I never took any medication about that. 😂

(the video was hilarious also😂)

 

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Hey I just have a little (and probably silly) question. Since I'm completing my short journey with fragrant qigong, I strongly feel the urge to do just zhan zhuang and the 8 pieces of brocade, just concentrating myself on the basis. So I ask to more seasoned practioners:

-Is standing meditation and 8 pieces of brocade enough to help healing, physical health and some degree of mental and spiritual development or not?

-I heard about finding a particular set/form that resonates with oneself. How do I understand if it's just my mind searching change or the form not resonating with me? Is it natural to change forms during time or it's just a way to never progress?

 

Thank you all, have a good day ^_^

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On 7/4/2018 at 3:01 PM, Victor said:

I also practice weightlifting and found it to be a very good activity for body and mind,  althought I'm still almost a complete novice in this field.

Welcome Victor.

i practice weightlifting also. twice a week,  and combine it with running sprints.  I found that it is easy to make your muscles stronger very quickly, but in doing that, especially at your age, we sometimes harm our connective tissue, our joints.  my only suggestion is to pay attention to your structure and go slow, that way your bone density will increase and your connective tissue will thicken. 

Also, doing yoga a couple times a week is also a great balance to weight lifting. Yoga will also help your energy move in meditation.

Simple breathing into the Hara/Tanden, and just sitting and watching it come and go is also a good start to reclaim physical health.  of course this kind of breathing deepens after time,  and it would be good to fine a good teacher at some point.

Lastly be very careful of YouTube or online videos.  Some of these videos are good, but many are shit,  so do your research.  good luck my friend. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Victor said:

standing meditation

 

Yes it is, in my experience I have worked intensely with about a dozen serious qigong forms and basically my conclusion is that it's rubbish !!!

 

If you want healing ZZ should imo be central, but you have to learn it, I like Mark Cohen like I keep rabbitting on about.   It's important to comprehend the practice as a dissolving softening awareness practice rather than the Iron Shirt rubbish being tough and toughing it out which is a disaster imo, which strengthens energy at the expense of yourself.

 

As for Qigong, yes it's very nice to choose one to do as well, do something that is fun and nice and feel good qi.  I don't for that reason like the up-their-backside systems which say you can't do anything else and have all sorts of weird energies or breathing in them.   Apart from the fact of their ridiculous exclusivity, and long expensive DVD series, their whole approach is highly questionable and not really spiritual.


Spiritual is the unhidden truth source simplicity within us, so for me ZZ is like an arrow straight into that.
Others want purple eagle energy magic power but for what ?   Where will you go with it ?
Does it help you to return to your own being ?
Like ZenPig says physical strength is important, must not become lazy floating Taoist who escapes from simply looking after muscles joints and bones like a normal man.


I think if you do something beautiful like Dayan Wild Goose then it is like art and I can see a point to it, you take on the art tradition for art sake not power sake, for the love of the Wild Goose that leaves no shadow.

8 Brocade is for me a little boring too, life is not meant to be boring, on the other hand 8 Brocade does open up the body very nicely which is very valuable.
Recently I have been doing "Smiling Heart Qigong" from an unknown Alaskan Institute with Cynthia McMullen, and I love it, because I love her.  If you have no heart love joy, why bother with anything, so I go here.


Also I sometimes do BK Frantzis Dragon & Tiger which is a powerful allrounder with high quality DVD instruction.  I even stopped doing the beloved 5 Animals HT practice because I don't need more emotions flying around that is ungrounding even more.  So yeah that's where I am at.


Return to the source, to your truth, to you .... it is way, and the only way.
Others will be collecting energies and promising higher levels of whatever .... like new apps on their Samsung.


ZZ also has very strong effect on mental and spiritual development and if you flow into it it might all happen on its own and quite quickly.  Like the soles of the feet are soft and melting, releasing, flowing down, structure is there from the feet to the crown, but flowing down, eyes soft.   

 

Efficiency clarity simplicity is important in such a world.

 

Edited by rideforever
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Posted (edited)

Hi, Victor. I practice Qigong and Zhanzhuang as well. 

 

As for Xianggong, I've heard a bit about it since it made its debut in China decades ago. But I was too young back then to acquire enough knowledge. When I searched on the Chinese webs just now it seems to have become a rather sensetive topic unlike other trational kinds of Qigong. Regardless of the reasons behind it it's always a good idea to have a grasp of the general knowledge of Qigong and stick to the more trusted ones first.

 

So imo if you wanna build up your foundation it might work better if you start from some traditional ancient ones since they are more likely to be more credible and safer for having stood the test of time and mass practitioners.

 

And if you've found Xianggong  practitioners here in TDB or other forums then it's even better. Do more research and talk to more seniors before you go deeper especially when dealing with such energy realted practice 'cause if anything happens and as you don't have Qigong teachers in your area to assit you it can be troublesome.

 

Not trying to be fussy here. When I first started practicing Qigong I did it all by myself, learnt online and stuff and situations went thrilling and funny at the same time now when I recall😂 Luckily I didn't actually get too hurt from it  but it did rise huge concern and even chaos in my family.🤒If I did more research and took it more slowly such incidents might not have happened. 

 

And as for the intense dreams you had been encountering as well as the emotion shift mentioned below, in my experience they could be the results of the energy increasement, shiftings in your body and karma unfolding and are mostly natural byproducts during the Qigong practice.

 

In my view, the essence of Qigong or spirituality in general, is relaxation (both mentally and physically) and to return to your true self, being that ALL THAT IS.

 

And like what rideforever said, do what you truely love to do and follow where your heart leads.

 

PS for the tinnitus issue it might have something to do with your kidney(TCM-wise not the western medicine term) since 肾开窍于耳(which basically means they are closely connected in the chi sense)And in TCM its more of a holistic view in terms of different diseases on one's body quite different from the western.

 

Meowwww such a lengthy post already! We'll go into more details later. Take care and see you around.😊

On 2018/11/19 at 7:35 AM, Victor said:

l emotionally more stable, but at the same time feel the need for emotional exploration; I had some periods of strange ups and downs and really aggressive and immotivate outburts; they felt really strange as I've always been a cool and calm person; those moments were mostly triggered by close proximity with family members, so I'm starting to understand what is the 'emotional purging' I've red here on the forum and been told about.

 

Edited by Sora

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Posted (edited)

I really appreciate your advice. As for the Xiang Gong, I received advice from more expert practioners and I exactly know wich way I should follow to deepen its practice. However, in five months of continuos practice I had some good results, but I did not manage to solve a problem that I believe arises from muscular and mental tension. So I tought about giving zhan zhuang a try, and also starting tai chi lessons in a dojo near my house; since Xiang Gong can't be mixed, I'll have to drop it. It's not that I don't like that, but I feel that my mind and body need something more still and calm. I hope this is not just a desire for entertainment and change, but a legitimate direction.

 

@Sora if I may ask, how did you bring chaos to your family by practicing QiGong?😶 And again thank you for your time😁

 

 

@rideforever as usual your advice is very good. I'm now reading the Way of Energy from Lam Chen for ZZ, but I hope that when I'll start the Tai Chi lessons the Master will help me in studying this. 

Edited by Victor

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Posted (edited)

Hi Victor, it's so good to hear that you have figured the situation out! We can talk more about Qigong practice when we get to.

 

Well as for the incident. A few days into focusing on my Dantian area I started to feel chi, chi meridians, and acupuncture points and the positions of which mostly matched the pictures I can find online. I got so surprised about the fact that such myths did exist and started to play around with the Chi and for the days that followed I experienced intense chi in my body and unusual acute physical conditions caused by both the huge volume and disorder of chi.

 

Conditions like having fever and sweating while feeling frozen inside and being knocked over and suppressed on the ground by the chi flow in my body to a point that the flow rocketed out of the top of my head and I felt the skull open (not physically for the scalp is intact, but still could feel a shallow pitting if I touch it) and connecting to the outside.

 

The more intense the chi situation got the more fearful I was and vise vera. And the opening on my head was the most frightening, mentally in particular since I was afraid my chi would all escape out of that pitting and lead to my death.😰

 

The TCM doctor my family reached out for even deemed it incurable and suggesting me being on my last gasp after checking my pulse...

 

I got treated for almost a week but still wasn't fully recovered and I was literally scared to death. So much had happened during that time and it's more like a movie to me now. 

 

The treatment only temporarily restored the natural order of the chi net (Yes for me it's like an electric current net in my body, the chi system.) and my fear of the energy was indeed incurable. Each time when I was in panic the whole system went into chaos again. (As you know the chi goes where your mind goes or we can say the chi and the consciousness are just two sides of the same coin.) I had to face the fact that I am the only one who can determine my own fate in this situation. 

 

The time when I fully recovered was months after the incident and the treatment, when I reached an understanding. Which didn't only spared me from the whole chi-fear condition but almost everything else. It's hard to be put into words... I became less and less influenced by my thoughts and emotion. And the chi problem as well as many issues which used to concern me in my life just became such jokes.😆

 

You may find a bit of what the understanding is about in my first post here. 

 

 https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/48383-hi-greetings-from-china/

 

 

Anyway that's what happened long story short.:P

 

——————

 

Hope my story didn't cause you undue concern or distrust towards Qigong. Qigong is cute and legit and I absolutely love it.

 

What I'm trying to highlight here is:

 

1. Even everyday sports might lead to injuries like sprains and pulled muscles as @Zen Pighave mentioned also. While Qigong can be considered a sport in a sense and voila. Qigong-gone-wrongs are not something only happen in Kungfu films and are capable of causing actual harm without being handled properly.

 

2. I did try to seek for help before we could find a doctor. Once I got the matters somewhat under control, I SOSed in some Qigong chat groups I could find. Some were concerned but couldn't do anything, some didn't believe my words and considered me a troll, some told me to Zhanzhuang (Which at that point made the situation even worse for letting in a Siberian Husky in a dog fight and was actually the cause for 50% of the "danger".) 

 

3. I wasn't the only one. During the years after I recovered, I saw people seeking for help regarding Qigong incidents in spiritual chat groups or Zhihu (A Chinese version of Quora). I offered my help unfortunately not for everyone but only some due to my limited capacity, and the number of the gone-wrongs turned out to be surprisingly much larger than I expected. And some would reach for me by following the trails of my posts.(And again most of them had been either ignored for being a troll-would-be or was taught well-intentioned but misleading measures and ended up in worse situation just like I was in.) 

 

4. It's important to get information from online but some info could be clickbaits, trumped-ups or cases where situations differ from person to person. I mentioned in the previous reply that this experience was trilling and funny at the same time. Now you've got the trilling part and one of the funny parts is that during my self-rescuing operation online I found an article saying with the chi activated and the head pitting thing one would lose his vitality and soul and yada yada. (Though at the very least this could be true, my fear for it and the accompanying despond could've killed me way before the body-energy condition itself actually does.) The message got ingrained in my head like spells which generated so much despair and panic that brought on further chi disorder which then contributed to the 40% of the "danger". 

 

5. Family can be skeptical about the chi or any seemingly supernatural concept and their precious support might not be duly provided. Which I can totally understand for they had been used to living quite a "normal" life. My mom was the only person who witnessed from the very beginning and trusted me wholeheartedly as always, while other family members were worried yet doubtful and some thought I was paranoid, insane, thought the TCM doctor was a crook, and even have sent me to the psychiatric clinic or possibly asylum (fortunately not the latter).😂 It was literally like me being a secret black magic victim school girl against flurried Muggles lol.

(While a bit of plot twist here. Eventually some were dumbfounded by the tangible seeing-believing evidence like some acupuncture needles bent by chi after being removed from my legs etc.)

 

 6. By the time when all the dust has settled down--Qigong and I went back to being BFFs, I realized that

at the end of the day the dominant even fatal factor has never been the chi or Qigong but your MIND.(And subsequently found out that it applies to everything.) And this actually cast light on those ostensibly cliche traditional teaches like how important the 修心(xiuxin, to cultivate one's mind/nature) is. I used to think that those being calm, relaxing, and inner peace, blah blah were so intangible, abstract and were more of hackneyed stereotype which could be put secondary while the energy part was more responsive and exciting. So in a sense this incident was actually a bliss.

 

Hope the info above wasn't too overwhelming as I tried to go into more details in order that honest and accurate messages were delivered.

 

Also I'm not a native English speaker so please let me know if there is anything obscure due to my English deficiency.

 

Besides, any questions feel free to ask me Victor, and other friends who took the time to read such a prolix post.😅

 

 

 

Edited by Sora
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Posted (edited)

Just came across someone who is suffering from a similar energy accident↓

So I see the need to create a separate post and talk more about the details and treatment as well as further discussion in this qigong/energy deviation topic

 

My post is going to be called something like My qigong deviation experience, I'm new to TDB and not sure which sub is proper for this topic, can anyone advice?

Thanks guys!:)

Edited by Sora

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