cosmic4z

Aggressive, unpleasant and violent people; do we need more of them?

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3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Really?  I wasn't aware of that.

 

You're kidding, right?  It's one of my primary online personas.  Internet/forums/faceless verbal can bring out the yang in people, it does to me, so I yang the fork out of it.  I guess you wouldn't know that In real life I'm a mostly yin laid back person.

 

Opening with a challenge is also a common enough Taoist way of meeting and greeting, but physically, as when Taoist martial arts masters meet they sometimes trade punches to the stomach, just to see how the other takes it ... at least in the old days. 

Edited by Starjumper

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18 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

I've seen you do this, and I've seen many people not listen to you, although on some occasions they do. 

 

Yes I know that happens, it's an efficient way of sorting out who can learn from me online  = )

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2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

You're kidding, right?

Yes.  I was kidding.

 

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 It's one of my primary online personas.  Internet/forums/faceless verbal can bring out the yang in people, it does to me, so I yang the fork out of it.  I guess you wouldn't know that I'm real life I'm a most yin laid back person.

Oh, I have known that all along.  And I am sure you are being honest about being mostly Yin in your real life.

 

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Opening with a challenge is also a common enough Taoist way of meeting and greeting, but physically, as when Taoist martial arts masters meet they sometimes trade punches to the stomach, just to see how the other takes it ... at least in the old days. 

I normally start off with making a statement rather than asking a question.  If there is a response then the questions might come.

 

I would like getting punched in the gut any more than I would like getting kicked in the nuts.

 

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2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I normally start off with making a statement rather than asking a question.  If there is a response then the questions might come.

 

Ya, starting off with a statement, that's a clearer way of putting it.  Some will see a statement as a challenge, and awaaaay we go.

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2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Ya, starting off with a statement, that's a clearer way of putting it.  Some will see a statement as a challenge, and awaaaay we go.

This worked once for me:

 

I think I love you but I don't even know your name.  She then told me her name.  All went well after that.

 

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3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

 ...  but I don't even know your name.  She then told me her name.

 

Funny that.  I just started having that same experience about fifteen minutes ago on this forum.

 

Another thing about my sometimes coarse online  persona, it ensures that no one from this forum will came and learn chi kung from me.  So, I'm shooting myself in the foot in a way, but sorry, I just can't do the sweety pie zen Bear thing.

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1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

 

Funny that.  I just started having that same experience about fifteen minutes ago on this forum.

Stuff happens.

 

1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

 

Another thing about my sometimes coarse online  persona, it ensures that no one from this forum will came and learn chi kung from me.  So, I'm shooting myself in the foot in a way, but sorry, I just can't do the sweety pie zen Bear thing.

No, you wouldn't look good in a zen teddy bear costume.

 

But yeah, many people need tender love, not tough love.  Can't handle tough.

 

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45 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Stosh,

 

Your reply was interesting...

 

If you don't think you should have to listen to others who disagree, why should (would) they listen to you? And 'round and 'round it goes. 

 

To be clear, when dealing with aggression in people I have close interpersonal relationships with, I generally listen until they talk themselves out. It's generally that they've had a bad day and are stuck in their thoughts. And sometimes I say, that's enough. 

 

BTW If you don't see the difference between verbal aggression and physical violence, I can't help but wonder if you have experience with the latter.

 

And the idea of 'good person' is your own. I don't claim to, or try to 'be good'.

!st of all it doesnt go round and round , I'm already fine , I know what I am saying and why ,  and since I don't need to hear the arguments of people who have no conviction on their own ,, there's no 'round going'.

The floor-mat had nothing to offer and doesn't offer it. They are what one calls 'dead weight'.  

Now while it may please you to interact with those who have no spine , because they are no threat , and have no offering.. I don't need that person to wipe my feet on , I prefer respecting those with conviction, and in return, they have things I may benefit to hear. 

Disingenuously waiting for people to waste their breath , is what is called  'passive aggressive' , its really an ugly thing , I wouldn't boast about doing that, myself. 

If you've ever loved deeply ,and lost ,, responded to insult or injustice , then you should recognize the validity of emotional state. 

 

I didn't call anyone good , or bad for that matter , ,, the OP questioned the validity or value of people who assert , as if they were to be considered justifiably un-welcomed persons. 

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1 minute ago, Stosh said:

Disingenuously waiting for people to waste their breath , is what is called  'passive aggressive' , its really an ugly thing , I wouldn't boast about doing that, myself. 

If you've ever loved deeply ,and lost ,, responded to insult or injustice , then you should recognize the validity of emotional state. 

 

I didn't call anyone good , or bad for that matter , ,, the OP questioned the validity or value of people who assert , as if they were to be considered justifiably un-welcomed persons. 

Hmmm

 

These arguments are with your own constructs, and the people I listen to do not find the listening to be passive aggressive.  They generally feel loved and supported. 

 

And I appreciate when they do the same for me. 

 

Best wishes to you Stosh

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And btw Stosh, just to make things as clear as possible I broke the fingers of a man who pinned me to a floor and put his hand over my mouth - broke them by biting hard enough to do so. And did not let go until he got off of me. 

 

And then did no more. It was a viable physical threat, and I responded with only enough force to prevent further physical violence.

 

I certainly differentiate between physical action, and somebody needing to get words out. And I can be as blunt, direct, and responsive as any situation calls for - IF a situation calls for it. (Which most don't.)

 

Your constructs are in error. 

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1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

 Michael,

 

You answered your own question.

 

I do that sometimes. :)

 

But what kind of satisfaction  could you get exactly from playing a floor-mat?

 

Say more about this please.

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5 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:
1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

 Michael,

 

You answered your own question.

 

I do that sometimes. :)

It's the best way to get the answer you want.

 

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24 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

And btw Stosh, just to make things as clear as possible I broke the fingers of a man who pinned me to a floor and put his hand over my mouth - broke them by biting hard enough to do so. And did not let go until he got off of me. 

 

And then did no more. It was a viable physical threat, and I responded with only enough force to prevent further physical violence.

 

I certainly differentiate between physical action, and somebody needing to get words out. And I can be as blunt, direct, and responsive as any situation calls for - IF a situation calls for it. (Which most don't.)

 

Your constructs are in error. 

No,  they aren't. 

 

49 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Hmmm

 

These arguments are with your own constructs, and the people I listen to do not find the listening to be passive aggressive.  They generally feel loved and supported. 

 

And I appreciate when they do the same for me. 

 

Best wishes to you Stosh

You described bullshiitting someone that you were pretending to listen , in order to wait them out.  That this was your strategy. 

If they don't recognize you are working a passive aggressive strategy , that's their problem.

It doesn't make the construct wrong. 

(responsive as any situation calls for - IF a situation calls for it. Which most don't) 

And if you don't care if they nod with glazed eyes wondering when you're going to run out of steam either ,, then to you , its fine using them as a doormat while you drone on. 

That you got scared and bit someone once ,

doesn't ,mean you aren't employing passive aggressive habit in this thread or elsewhere. 

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30 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

I do that sometimes. :)

 

But what kind of satisfaction  could you get exactly from playing a floor-mat?

 

Say more about this please.

 

Wrong question, as the idea of floor mat is not a construct I hold.

 

I've seen this construct play out, and it hasn't seemed healthy or a nice place to get stuck. 

 

Some of the most aggressive people I've known used ideas such as this to justify the aggression that someone else then felt the need to protect themselves from. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Stosh said:

No,  they aren't. 

 

You described bullshiitting someone that you were pretending to listen , in order to wait them out.  That this was your strategy. 

If they don't recognize you are working a passive aggressive strategy , that's their problem.

It doesn't make the construct wrong. 

(responsive as any situation calls for - IF a situation calls for it. Which most don't) 

And if you don't care if they nod with glazed eyes wondering when you're going to run out of steam either ,, then to you , its fine using them as a doormat while you drone on. 

That you got scared and bit someone once ,

doesn't ,mean you aren't employing passive aggressive habit in this thread or elsewhere. 

 

No bullshit. Calm in the midst of a storm. And in the end, the last thing they've really wanted was for me to hold onto words that could be emotionally hurtful when they were an expression of not only what was faced on any specific day, but reaction to what may have come 30 years before. 

 

I trust the people close to me to find their way, and am open to discussion - when they're in a place to have open discussion. 

 

Sometimes people get stuck, I am human and get stuck sometimes too.. 

 

What is it that you are suggesting be done?

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7 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

No bullshit. Calm in the midst of a storm. And in the end, the last thing they've really wanted was for me to hold onto words that could be emotionally hurtful when they were an expression of not only what was faced on any specific day, but reaction to what may have come 30 years before. 

 

I trust the people close to me to find their way, and am open to discussion - when they're in a place to have open discussion. 

 

Sometimes people get stuck, I am human and get stuck sometimes too.. 

 

What is it that you are suggesting be done?

I'm not suggesting anything yet, I'm trying to figure out if you make too much value of passivity ,

and miss out on the other side of the coin. To express yourself , to have ideas , to have impact ,

to be seen and be recognized. 

Difficult people tend to offer quite a lot , and those that are awol , do not. 

I admit,  I don't know how you are day to day, but I do want to stick up for those who ,,, aren't easy. 

 

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34 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Wrong question, as the idea of floor mat is not a construct I hold.

 

It was meant as a general "you", not a personal one. You seemed to be able to offer some further insight, though.

 

34 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

I've seen this construct play out, and it hasn't seemed healthy or a nice place to get stuck. 

 

Some of the most aggressive people I've known used ideas such as this to justify the aggression that someone else then felt the need to protect themselves from. 

 

 

They justified their aggression HOW?

 

(Trying to get you right without risking to answer my own question. :D)

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50 minutes ago, Stosh said:

No,  they aren't. 

 

You described bullshiitting someone that you were pretending to listen , in order to wait them out.  That this was your strategy. 

 

As for myself, I would never do that. I would just...

 

5b2abdaea0064_th(30).jpeg.359314a3fc9ef99251786c96a4803a5d.jpeg

 

;)

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2 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

As for myself, I would never do that. I would just...

 

5b2abdaea0064_th(30).jpeg.359314a3fc9ef99251786c96a4803a5d.jpeg

 

;)

How, pray tell , could you possibly blame me !

:) 

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2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

No, you wouldn't look good in a zen teddy bear costume.

 

Ya, the way I look at it is the Teddy Bears are whoring themselves for money.  It brings up thoughts of something in the TTC about pretty words.  Also, it seems to me that unconditional love is not often manifested as Teddy Bear love.

 

I changed my avatar to better reflect my online persona.  

 

Quote

But yeah, many people need tender love, not tough love.  Can't handle tough.

 

So, do I even want people like that as students?  I don't think so.  Maybe that's why all my students here are over 60.

Edited by Starjumper

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2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I would like getting punched in the gut any more than I would like getting kicked in the nuts.

 

Toughen up there, old boy.  Then it's no sweat.  One of my Yang tai chi teachers, grandmaster Tchoung Ta Tchen, was kind of a portly feller with a big belly, and I had assumed it was pudge.  I guess he could read my mind, because one day he came over and told me to press on his belly with my thumb, and let me tell you, I can press real hard with my thumb.  It was like pressing on a piece of wood.

 

So he had about three or four inches thick solid muscle all around his middle, you can bet he never had back pain.

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