C T Posted October 29, 2009 5 7 5 Â please Even Stig does not stig to this 5 7 5 structure so.... Â Basho, the eminent Haiku poet and ex-samurai, does not conform strictly to this 5 7 5 either. An example: Â "Winter rain falls on the cow-shed; a cock crows. Â But if you insist, and there is consensus, 5 7 5 it shall be! I have no prob with this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailmaker Posted October 29, 2009 Even Stig does not stig to this 5 7 5 structure so.... Â Basho, the eminent Haiku poet and ex-samurai, does not conform strictly to this 5 7 5 either. An example: Â "Winter rain falls on the cow-shed; a cock crows. Â But if you insist, and there is consensus, 5 7 5 it shall be! I have no prob with this. Â Â hi cowtao - fine words - both yours and basho's - please do continue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted October 30, 2009 hi cowtao - fine words - both yours and basho's - please do continue. This is the second time you have made me feel welcomed here T. Much appreciated. Â How about a contribution from you sir? You do not post much, so how about giving us an opportunity to appreciate your fine words? Â Thank you. Have a good day! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted October 30, 2009 Oh, I didn't mean to make you feel unwelcome either, CowTao, and have enjoyed your contributions! It's only that... that 5-7-5 thing... it's only about the 5-7-5 thing... not about you or anyone else personally... Â Â Basho, the eminent Haiku poet and ex-samurai, does not conform strictly to this 5 7 5 either. An example: Â "Winter rain falls on the cow-shed; a cock crows. Â You mean his translator. I've seen numerous examples in translations of this structure being busted, and I confess I disapprove. We've busted so much about the haiku already. The graphic/visual expression, unavailable in alphabetic languages. The traditional artistic method (observation and contemplation, not abstract ideas). The quiet, undramatic tone of voice in which a haiku speaks. And so on. The 5-7-5 structure -- a diamond with its top and bottom facets blunt -- is all that remains. It starts, expands, tapers off -- like natural phenomena do -- Â this IMO is worth preserving, it's the best we can do in English to retain at least a bit of the flavor of the original thing. Just a tiny whiff... Â Then again, without discipline, all talk is small talk... the discipline of a structure is the surest, albeit paradoxical, road to freedom -- in life and in cultivation and in nature, and most certainly in poetry. But if you insist, and there is consensus, 5 7 5 it shall be! I have no prob with this. Who am I to blow against the wind?.. If it's not 5-7-5, I ain't no game, is all. So -- carry on any which way you like, with or without my meowy contributions, and have fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted October 30, 2009 the autumn wind blows auburn leaves float listlessly like words once spoken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted October 30, 2009 the autumn wind blows auburn leaves float listlessly like words once spoken  like words once spoken counting on my fingers now five seven five yes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted October 30, 2009 like words once spoken counting on my fingers now five seven five yes  Five seven five yes. Translators sometimes screw up. A tao cat meows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest artform Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) like words once spoken counting on my fingers now five seven five yes   five seven five yes challenge met with welcome now write with the chain gang   ..... .....  EDIT!  mythmaking and artforming simultaneously...  a tao cat meows birdsong carries all away petals fall, float on Edited October 30, 2009 by artform Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted October 30, 2009 Oh, I didn't mean to make you feel unwelcome either, CowTao, and have enjoyed your contributions! It's only that... that 5-7-5 thing... it's only about the 5-7-5 thing... not about you or anyone else personally... You mean his translator. I've seen numerous examples in translations of this structure being busted, and I confess I disapprove. We've busted so much about the haiku already. The graphic/visual expression, unavailable in alphabetic languages. The traditional artistic method (observation and contemplation, not abstract ideas). The quiet, undramatic tone of voice in which a haiku speaks. And so on. The 5-7-5 structure -- a diamond with its top and bottom facets blunt -- is all that remains. It starts, expands, tapers off -- like natural phenomena do -- Â this IMO is worth preserving, it's the best we can do in English to retain at least a bit of the flavor of the original thing. Just a tiny whiff... Â Then again, without discipline, all talk is small talk... the discipline of a structure is the surest, albeit paradoxical, road to freedom -- in life and in cultivation and in nature, and most certainly in poetry. Who am I to blow against the wind?.. If it's not 5-7-5, I ain't no game, is all. So -- carry on any which way you like, with or without my meowy contributions, and have fun. Hey TM! Â Its all in good fun eh? I fully agree with your view btw. Haikus in English can be a bit off. Its like archery with a broken bow thats been taped over. Or a cracked chopstick mended with superglue! But we do our best nonetheless yes? Â Bee good my friend. Â five seven five yes challenge met with welcome now write with the chain gang ..... ..... Â EDIT! Â mythmaking and artforming simultaneously... Â a tao cat meows birdsong carries all away petals fall, float on petals fall, float on in timeless fashion seasons appear - like pillars...only stronger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 30, 2009 Hey TM!  Its all in good fun eh? I fully agree with your view btw. Haikus in English can be a bit off. Its like archery with a broken bow thats been taped over. Or a cracked chopstick mended with superglue! But we do our best nonetheless yes?  Bee good my friend. petals fall, float on in timeless fashion seasons appear - like pillars...only stronger   like pillars...only stronger.... 5,7,5 our backbone, freedom is our flesh.  (suggest 5,7,5 is a good discipline but poetic license allowed?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest artform Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) like pillars...only stronger.... 5,7,5 our backbone, freedom is our flesh. Â (suggest 5,7,5 is a good discipline but poetic license allowed?) Â Â (5,7,5 discipline good for mind, community and flow of chain.) Â (How about welcoming "asides" of other form haiku offerings here, but not counting or first lining in the chain?.) Â freedom is our flesh chi/shen our community sharing energies Edited October 30, 2009 by artform Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 30, 2009 (5,7,5 discipline good for mind, community and flow of chain.)  (How about welcoming "asides" of other form haiku offerings here, but not counting or first lining in the chain?.)   You are most wise ... it is nice to keep the 5,7,5 going for first/last lines.   freedom is our flesh chi/shen our community sharing energies   sharing energies, ideas for cultivation, such a sweet pastime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted October 30, 2009 You are most wise ... it is nice to keep the 5,7,5 going for first/last lines. sharing energies, ideas for cultivation, such a sweet pastime. Such a sweet pastime! Five cows offer seven cats five gallons of milk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) You are most wise ... it is nice to keep the 5,7,5 going for first/last lines. sharing energies, ideas for cultivation, such a sweet pastime. such a sweet pastime watching the butterfly dance on tiptoes, i gazed.. (NULL AND VOID ) Â Guess you made it there before me TM! hehehe Edited October 30, 2009 by CowTao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted October 30, 2009 Such a sweet pastime! Five cows offer seven cats five gallons of milk five gallons of milk from droplets of rain it came the rainbow too is smiling.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 31, 2009 five gallons of milk from droplets of rain it came the rainbow too is smiling.. Â CowTao, Â At the risk of being pedantic ... you could have ... Â "five gallons of milk from droplets of rain it came the rainbow too smiles.." Â ... and stick to the 5,7,5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted October 31, 2009 CowTao, Â At the risk of being pedantic ... you could have ... Â "five gallons of milk from droplets of rain it came the rainbow too smiles.." Â ... and stick to the 5,7,5. The rainbow too smiles My plane turns toward China Up, up, and away Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted October 31, 2009 The rainbow too smiles My plane turns toward China Up, up, and away  Up, up, and away Being content just being Thus spake mYTHmAKER Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MudLotus Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Up, up, and away Being content just being Thus spake mYTHmAKER Â Thus spake mYTHmAKER Tom's Toothpaste in mouth foaming Window pigeon sings Edited November 2, 2009 by MudLotus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted November 2, 2009 Thus spake mYTHmAKER Tom's Toothpaste in mouth foaming Window pigeon sings   Window pigeon sings, flies away, shits on statue My mind is fertile. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MudLotus Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Window pigeon sings, flies away, shits on statue My mind is fertile. Â My mind is fertile Buddhists fermenting in Tao Sake bombs wake dead Edited November 2, 2009 by MudLotus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted November 2, 2009 My mind is fertile Buddhists fermenting in Tao Sake bombs wake dead  Sake bombs wake dead For god's sake! Sake bombs away Drink in sweet nectar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MudLotus Posted November 2, 2009 Sake bombs wake dead For god's sake! Sake bombs away Drink in sweet nectar. Â Drink in sweet nectar Drunken philanthropist sings. Rubberneckers stare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MudLotus Posted November 3, 2009 Drink in sweet nectar Drunken philanthropist sings. Rubberneckers stare  Rubberneckers stare Lone writer responds to self Mallet hits chi gong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted November 3, 2009 Rubberneckers stare Lone writer responds to self Mallet hits chi gong   Mallet hits chi gong Reverberation lingers Silence hangs around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
