So you're telling me the Islamic State still exists???

[liminal_luke]

25 minutes ago, WuDao said:

 

Alright.

 

The ugliness is not in the opinion you hold - but that it overlays, like a perjorative blanket statement, to all members of a group.

 

 

Ok, I get how you could read me like that.  Thanks for explaining.

 

In my defense, I think I do a passable job of treating people as individuals.  There are conservatives here whose opinions I hold in high esteem and those I don`t.  There are also liberals here whose opinions I hold in high esteem and those I don`t.  The tone of these kind of internet debates can often get ugly.  I do try -- not always successfully, I`m realizing -- not to contribute to the muck.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Brian]

Personally, I think the "evil losers" is a bit too base (for my taste, anyhow) but I have no doubt that it was calculated for effect (both domestically and abroad). I also note that echos with a harmonic similar to Reagan's "evil empire." The Soviets were reportedly incensed by this apolitic breach and I suspect some of Trump's advisors have long memories (or do their homework...)

 

EDIT: It is my understanding, BTW, that Reagan's speech writers kept taking that phrase out and he kept putting it back in, and that it became a symbolic anchor-point for some who were being held in gulags at that time.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Brian

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

Absolutely. He is probably the single most extreme example of "right-wing frothiness." I suspect there's a good bit of melodrama for effect in his presentation but the effect is quite effective, if you follow me.  Look past his theatrics, though, and tell me what you think.

 

OK, I`ll bite.  Perhaps surprisingly, we do have some areas of agreement.  And some less surprising areas of disagreement.

 

He doesn`t like the new Netflix show Dear White People and neither do I.  I dunno.  Maybe I`d feel differently if I were black?  I tried to watch it and just couldn`t get past the pervasive moral scold vibe.  He says that "black people can be racist too."  True.

 

Quote: I do recognize it isn’t your fault that you happen to share a gender, one of the actual two genders, with batshit crazy, mean-spirited, man-hating, and deeply unhappy feminist harpies.  Here he`s being oversimplistic (and also kinda mean).  I`m no expert on the biology of transexuality, but I think gender is a more complicated subject than the "actual two genders" phrase implies.  What about intersex people?  Some people are born with both male and female genitalia or ambiguous genitalia. Perhaps more common are those whose internal physiology (hormones?) are seemingly at odds with their physical appearance.

 

Quote: Or, in other words, girls are retards.  Disagree.

 

There`s a phrase he uses (I think it was him) that I found insightful and apt: virtue signaling. I`d never heard of this before, but I think it refers to a real phenomenon and is a keen observation.

 

I generally agree with Milo about free speech.

 

So anyway, not everything he says is wrong.  At least I don`t think so.  A great deal of what he says is offensive though -- even when he`s right. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Marblehead]

6 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Perhaps surprisingly, we do have some areas of agreement.  And some less surprising areas of disagreement.

 

I'm not talking with you in this thread so that you and I don't have to have any disagreements.

 

[Brian]

11 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

OK, I`ll bite.  Perhaps surprisingly, we do have some areas of agreement.  And some less surprising areas of disagreement.

 

He doesn`t like the new Netflix show Dear White People and neither do I.  I dunno.  Maybe I`d feel differently if I were black?  I tried to watch it and just couldn`t get past the pervasive moral scold vibe.  He says that "black people can be racist too."  True.

 

Quote: I do recognize it isn’t your fault that you happen to share a gender, one of the actual two genders, with batshit crazy, mean-spirited, man-hating, and deeply unhappy feminist harpies.  Here he`s being oversimplistic (and also kinda mean).  I`m no expert on the biology of transexuality, but I think gender is a more complicated subject than the "actual two genders" phrase implies.  What about intersex people?  Some people are born with both male and female genitalia or ambiguous genitalia. Perhaps more common are those whose internal physiology (hormones?) are seemingly at odds with their physical appearance.

 

Quote: Or, in other words, girls are retards.  Disagree.

 

There`s a phrase he uses (I think it was him) that I found insightful and apt: virtue signaling. I`d never heard of this before, but I think it refers to a real phenomenon and is a keen observation.

 

I generally agree with Milo about free speech.

 

So anyway, not everything he says is wrong.  At least I don`t think so.  A great deal of what he says is offensive though -- even when he`s right. 

 

 

 

 

I think it's curious that the second quote seems dramatically disconnected from the first one, as if (I think) he thought, "Wait, I'm supposed to say something shallow and caustic."

[liminal_luke]

42 minutes ago, Brian said:

I think it's curious that the second quote seems dramatically disconnected from the first one, as if (I think) he thought, "Wait, I'm supposed to say something shallow and caustic."

 

Oh sorry.  I was actually pulling from several different posts, so the first and second quotes are totally unrelated.  Here`s some greater context for that second quote.  (Perhaps it`s just supposed to be comedy, and we`re not supposed to believe he believes it?)

 

........................................................................................................

 

Tomorrow there is a women’s march, like the one in Washington DC. I support women marching. As the fat acceptance movement’s most prominent critic, I’m well aware of how “body positivity” has resulted in an increase in the number of obese women in America. Anything that involves a bit of exercise for our sisters and moms is alright by me!

 

But I hope they bring some men along to keep them on course. I don’t mean to be rude, but it’s well established in the research literature that men have far better spacial awareness and sense of direction than girls.

Can you imagine 50,000 hairy, overweight feminists wandering, hopelessly lost around downtown Seattle, like a drunk Sasquatch convention?

 

Have you noticed these armpit hair-braiding west coast femsquatches spell “women” with an X? W-O-M-X-N.  Is the X silent? How do you pronounce that? It’s like “LATIN-X”.

 

Is it Lat-tinks? Sounds like a new paraplegic cholo X-Men character who was shocked he didn’t have to be jumped into the group. Too bad that after today’s inauguration, he has to go back!

 

I always there was feminist biology and feminist history, I didn’t know we had feminist spelling!  This is what always happens ladies and gentlemen, a women’s march becomes instead a chance, quote, “to acknowledge the impact of discrimination based not only on gender but also race, sexual orientation, nationality, faith, class, disability and body odor.”

 

Why can’t it just be a women’s march? The same thing has happened in Washington DC, where the women’s march has become a mess of identity politics with black women lecturing their white comrades and every other identity jockeying for power in the left’s grotesque minority war Hunger Games.

 

Or, in case of feminists, Hungry Games.

 

My theory is that women simply can’t get along with each other or work well together. Call it intrasexual competition or whatever, but the results are obvious. I’ll quote my favorite twentieth-century philosophy, Al Bundy: “Don’t try to understand women, women understand women, and they hate each other.”

 

Or, in other words, girls are retards.

 

Milo Yiannopoulos

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by liminal_luke

[liminal_luke]

46 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I'm not talking with you in this thread so that you and I don't have to have any disagreements.

 

 

Thanks, I think. 

[Brian]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Oh sorry.  I was actually pulling from several different posts, so the first and second quotes are totally unrelated.  Here`s some greater context for that second quote.  (Perhaps it`s just supposed to be comedy, and we`re not supposed to believe he believes it?)

 

........................................................................................................

 

Tomorrow there is a women’s march, like the one in Washington DC. I support women marching. As the fat acceptance movement’s most prominent critic, I’m well aware of how “body positivity” has resulted in an increase in the number of obese women in America. Anything that involves a bit of exercise for our sisters and moms is alright by me!

 

But I hope they bring some men along to keep them on course. I don’t mean to be rude, but it’s well established in the research literature that men have far better spacial awareness and sense of direction than girls.

Can you imagine 50,000 hairy, overweight feminists wandering, hopelessly lost around downtown Seattle, like a drunk Sasquatch convention?

 

Have you noticed these armpit hair-braiding west coast femsquatches spell “women” with an X? W-O-M-X-N.  Is the X silent? How do you pronounce that? It’s like “LATIN-X”.

 

Is it Lat-tinks? Sounds like a new paraplegic cholo X-Men character who was shocked he didn’t have to be jumped into the group. Too bad that after today’s inauguration, he has to go back!

 

I always there was feminist biology and feminist history, I didn’t know we had feminist spelling!  This is what always happens ladies and gentlemen, a women’s march becomes instead a chance, quote, “to acknowledge the impact of discrimination based not only on gender but also race, sexual orientation, nationality, faith, class, disability and body odor.”

 

Why can’t it just be a women’s march? The same thing has happened in Washington DC, where the women’s march has become a mess of identity politics with black women lecturing their white comrades and every other identity jockeying for power in the left’s grotesque minority war Hunger Games.

 

Or, in case of feminists, Hungry Games.

 

My theory is that women simply can’t get along with each other or work well together. Call it intrasexual competition or whatever, but the results are obvious. I’ll quote my favorite twentieth-century philosophy, Al Bundy: “Don’t try to understand women, women understand women, and they hate each other.”

 

Or, in other words, girls are retards.

 

Milo Yiannopoulos

 

I think he tries too hard to be "shocking" because that kept his name in the news (well, "on the Internet" since mainstream outlets pretended he didn't exist).  His bridge-too-far was trying to be flippant and controversial about his own experience with pederasty as a youth.

 

EDIT: fixed

Edited May 30, 2017 by Brian

[Apech]

6 minutes ago, Brian said:

I think he tries too hard to be "shocking" because that kept his name in the news (well, "on the Internet" since mainstream outlets pretended he didn't exist).  His bridge-too-far was trying to be flippant and controversial about his own experience with pedorasty as a youth.

 

 

It's pederasty - but I don't want to be pedantic.

[Apech]

I think my problem with all this is that on one hand are the left wing who seem to be unable to criticise islam and on the other hand the right wing who want to deport everyone with a beard.  In the middle where you would normally see some sense - nada or just carry on as normal rubbish.

[Brian]

In related news, CNN reports the black flag of ISIS has been raised in the Philippines and more than a hundred dead in fighting.

[Brian]

12 minutes ago, Apech said:

I think my problem with all this is that on one hand are the left wing who seem to be unable to criticise islam and on the other hand the right wing who want to deport everyone with a beard.  In the middle where you would normally see some sense - nada or just carry on as normal rubbish.

Have you ever seen me say "deport everyone with a beard"?

[redcairo]

Addressing various of the last couple days:

 

1 - Boy there certainly were people squirming in their seats. Pretty sure the majority of that congregation of "50 countries' leaders" would happily have hacked off his head if the King of Arabia weren't his host. To hear him call out the violence totally clearly and then preacher-level extort against it, probably was shocking for them.

 

To compare to other leaders for 'intent': when our soldiers were on occasion seized by one of the militant groups (taliban, isis, etc. - there are many), after being tortured, they'd have their heads sawed off, and photos taken. They would provide info with the bodies that "prior to their deaths they converted to Islam and here are their new islamic names."

 

Forced to give awards to some of these people, the President then (BO) presented their grieving but proud families with their medals of honor. In the names the terrorist torturers who killed them gave them. Rather than their own. If someone sat around for five years thinking of the most totally F'ing insulting thing you could do to a soldier and their family, that would be it. To have this done by the President of all people is nauseating.

 

One of the things that first made me feel positive about Trump was his totally forthright support of veterans both mil serving and retired.

 

2 - I'm sorry to say but it's true that it's a pretty low common denominator aimed for if you're looking for simple slogans that move the masses. No matter which side we're talking about, or what country of people.  Oh and don't forget Bush's "Axis of Evil." Yep, evil's gotta be in there somewhere...

 

3 - I like Milo. He's a bit messed up in some ways, but like many people, that's just who he is. I don't dislike him for that I just recognize it. He is aggressively anti-feminism, but I have to admit that while I"m not as rude as he is about it, I have seldom disagreed with much he has said on that or other topics I've heard him speak about. He's intentionally polarizing in terms of the shock value but so are standup comedians and some writers, I don't think that's a bad thing -- I think that is often what drives attention and discussion of things, and it might be more heated than without that, but it might not have happened at all without that, too. The new-left's* descent into Legion (separating everyone into warring labels) is devastatingly destructive to our country and it's pretty destructive to human relationships up close, as well. I have never met a self-labeled feminist I did not consider a walking complex of pathologies projected on men and in serious need of therapy, so I have a hard time sympathizing with it also, and I'm a woman, so go figure.

 

* I say new-left because I really feel that the progressive movement has been utterly hijacked by globalists and worse. Take the 'womens marches' for example. So they choose a leader like the woman who is pushing for Sharia law and affiliated with just about every possible muslim and terrorist group. They choose another leader who was imprisoned for murdering a man in part by violently raping him with a foot long metal rod with a couple other people. They choose another leader who was imprisoned for blowing up two innocent 21 year old college students in an act of terrorism. HOW DID THIS BECOME FEMINISM? How did people like this merit being chosen as LEADERS? Then, when women wanted to join the "women's march" who were pro-life, they were refused! Because it's not about being a woman, it's about being utterly for abortion, and not only that but government-funded abortion. SINCE WHEN did feminism become solely about abortion? That movement was utterly hijacked already, but now it's worse; but the left has now been fully hijacked as well.

 

There are plenty of sane, good people who are progressives that I know, and even they wonder where the hell their party went, where the sanity went. They are not in favor of that stuff, and they're as horrified by antifa as anyone, and some of them are utterly pro-life (nuns, who work with the poor, are infamously liberal for example). They see the complete inanity of the talking heads in the news who are endless-term in congress. They're not the craziness we see in the news.

 

That doesn't mean they like Trump, often they loathe him, but most of them were like "yes it's horrible. Yes now I know how conservatives felt about Obama. But the vote's over." If they were in congress they probably wouldn't be abandoning the majority of their job just to focus on trying to hunt for one thing, any thing, they can destroy the president with (I consider EVER dem and rep who has done that so far to be guilty of sedition). They just happen to feel differently about things. And I think it's important to have people who feel differently... I feel that is part of how a country keeps from going to extreme for too long in any one direction. It's just that "feeling differently" and "attempting to usurp or destroy an elected government" are two different things -- and the "new" left, most of whom seem to be rabid, really aren't in the same category.

 

I suspect the left was already gone but Trump's arrival, in addition to destroying the Reps to a good degree, really revealed the dark rotten underbelly of the virulent coup of the progressive left by the globalists, media, pussyists, jihadic influences and other miserable sources.

 

Both the left and the right -- the good people in each -- need a new party, since theirs have been stolen by the lunatics.

 

RC

[Apech]

49 minutes ago, Brian said:

Have you ever seen me say "deport everyone with a beard"?

 

Well it wasn't meant literally.

[Brian]

11 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Well it wasn't meant literally.

Some of my best friends have beards.

 

<grin>

 

EDIT: FWIW, none of my best friends fly the black flag of Khorasan.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Brian

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

I think he tries too hard to be "shocking" because that kept his name in the news (well, "on the Internet" since mainstream outlets pretended he didn't exist).  His bridge-too-far was trying to be flippant and controversial about his own experience with pederasty as a youth.

 

 

The pederasty business is what got him in trouble, but to me it`s far from the worst thing he`s said.  Not that I believe 13 year olds are capable of giving consent, because I don`t believe that.  But I think that when he said he thought he was capable of consenting when he was younger than 16, he was being unusually honest about his own experience.  I actually respect him for saying what he thought.  Lots of people believe -- mistakenly, I think -- that they freely gave consent in their pederasty experiences and were not harmed by them.

 

What bothers me more is the shock talk (frothiness) because it`s so divisive.  Lets say I read him, doing my level best to ignore all the melodrama, and find myself largely in agreement.  I discover that I too am a little over all the identity politics and the victim posturing and the whiny self-righteousness.  What am I supposed to do then?  All of that provocative talk becomes a wall that divides right and left.  If you`re on the left, it`s not so easy to climb to the other side even if you want to.  Milo`s a smart guy and not everything he says is wrong, but I couldn`t bring myself to sit in a room and hear him make fun of fat hairy lesbians.  He makes himself hard to like.      

 

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

10 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

The pederasty business is what got him in trouble, but to me it`s far from the worst thing he`s said.  Not that I believe believe 13 year olds are capable of giving consent, because I don`t believe that.  But I think that when he said he thought he was capable of consenting when he was younger than 16, he was being unusually honest about his own experience.  I actually respect him for saying what he thought.  Lots of people believe -- mistakenly, I think -- that they freely gave consent in their pederasty experiences and were not harmed by them.

 

What bothers me more is the shock talk (frothiness) because it`s so divisive.  Lets say I read him, doing my level best to ignore all the melodrama, and find myself largely in agreement.  I discover that I too am a little over all the identity politics and the victim posturing and the whiny self-righteousness.  What am I supposed to do then?  All of that provocative talk becomes a wall that divides right and left.  If you`re on the left, it`s not so easy to climb to the other side even if you want to.  Milo`s a smart guy and not everything he says is wrong, but I couldn`t bring myself to sit in a room and hear him make fun of hairy fat lesbians.  He makes himself hard to like.      

 

 

 

If you watch videos of his talks you can see that he is part serious, part stand-up and part provocateur.  I don't think he meant everything literally but for effect.  He wanted to shock.  I found his performances very variable - but the main thing he seemed to be doing was empowering free speech and destroying political correctness.  But he was too attached to Trump, who he called Daddy for me.  But overall I thought he was a good thing.

 

 

[liminal_luke]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

  But he was too attached to Trump, who he called Daddy for me. 

 

 

Yeah, I might be wrong but the whole Daddy thing suggests to me that maybe his childhood experiences of having sex with adult men were more harmful to him than he initially thought.  Poor guy.

[Brian]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/asia/philippines-marawi-isis-hapilon/index.html

 

I must have been sleeping when the Philippines invaded and occupied Iraq.

 

If I didn't know better, I might think those who fly the black flag of Khorasan seek global submission, one country at a time.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Brian

[Marblehead]

10 hours ago, Apech said:

I think my problem with all this is that on one hand are the left wing who seem to be unable to criticise islam and on the other hand the right wing who want to deport everyone with a beard.  In the middle where you would normally see some sense - nada or just carry on as normal rubbish.

Well, I have a beard but my eyes are blue.  I have nothing against brown-eyed bearded men.  I have always had a problem with bearded women though.

 

[Marblehead]

10 hours ago, Brian said:

In related news, CNN reports the black flag of ISIS has been raised in the Philippines and more than a hundred dead in fighting.

But two thirds of the dead are ISIS and their supporters.  This will continue for a while as it is a goal to completely remove ISIS from that area.

 

[Marblehead]

BTW  The US military has changed its tactics a little bit in the ME.  Instead of just trying to force them out of an area it is now a policy to just kill them.  Good policy, I think.

 

[johndoe2012]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-sells-qatar-12-billion-arms-days-after-accusing-it-of-funding-terrorism/

 

Thanks Trump for supporting terrorists!

 

1. Create terrorists.

2. Make the military go after terrorists, thus creating unlimited profit for military contractors.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Brian]

Yep, it's a shame Congress approved that deal and Obama signed it.  It will be a few years before they take delivery of these jet so maybe the diplomatic pressure being applied now will change things in Qatar.

[Marblehead]

I got lost on that one.  I'm sure there are reasons that I am not aware of.