taoteching99

Realize vs Experience of SELF

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This is someones explanation on the difference between 'Experience of Self' vs Authentic Self realization (as im not promoting the website or author of this article,theres no need to mention the source of it.)

 

Currious....

 

1. Anyone experiences this 'eureka ' , this 'a ha! ' (read what the author mentioned/describe in the article) before ?What does it feels like?

 

2. Does it (the a ha'/ unshakable realization) stays permanently?

 

 

" One of the direct and immediate response I get after reading the articles by Rob Burbea and Rupert is that they missed one very and most important point when talking about the Eternal Witness Experience -- The Realization. They focus too much on the experience but overlook the realization. Honestly I do not like to make this distinction as I see realization also as a form of experience. However in this particular case, it seems appropriate as it could better illustrate what I am trying to convey. It also relates to the few occasions where you described to me your space-like experiences of Awareness and asked whether they correspond to the phase one insight of Eternal Witness. While your experiences are there, I told you ‚Äėnot exactly‚Äô even though you told me you clearly experienced a pure sense of presence.

 

So what is lacking? You do not lack the experience, you lack the realization. You may have the blissful sensation or feeling of vast and open spaciousness; you may experience a non-conceptual and objectless state; you may experience the mirror like clarity but all these experiences are not Realization. There is no ‚Äėeureka‚Äô, no ‚Äėaha‚Äô, no moment of immediate and intuitive illumination that you understood something undeniable and unshakable -- a conviction so powerful that no one, not even Buddha can sway you from this realization because the practitioner so clearly sees the truth of it. It is the direct and unshakable insight of ‚ÄėYou‚Äô. This is the realization that a practitioner must have in order to realize the Zen satori. You will understand clearly why it is so difficult for those practitioners to forgo this ‚ÄėI AMness‚Äô and accept the doctrine of anatta. Actually there is no forgoing of this ‚ÄėWitness‚Äô, it is rather a deepening of insight to include the non-dual, groundlessness and interconnectedness of our luminous nature. Like what Rob said, "keep the experience but refine the views".

 

Lastly this realization is not an end by itself, it is the beginning. If we are truthful and not over exaggerate and get carried away by this initial glimpse, we will realize that we do not gain liberation from this realization; contrary we suffer more after this realization. However it is a powerful condition that motivates a practitioner to embark on a spiritual journey in search of true freedom. "

Edited by taoteching99
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If his realization faded away, I would not call it very unshakeable, more like a temporary unfounded sense of certainty.

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If his realization faded away, I would not call it very unshakeable, more like a temporary unfounded sense of certainty.

True‚ėļ , and this brings the mind to : What is authentic Self realization ,a realization that stays,once you 'Know ' your Self,you knows it all the time ('into the future' ), doubt no more rises(as to who you are),

 

this " conviction that is so powerful [that even 'Buddha' - one can easily substitute 'Buddha ' for God etc...- cannot sway you from this realization ] " ,

 

wont in any way fades away (from the moment of Realization) anymore for the practioner.

Edited by taoteching99
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I see it as the difference in something lodging into your heart (which stays with you), as opposed to something you remember (or don't remember) with your brain.  If the tumblers fall into place in an Aha! moment, my experience is that this stays within, although the exact words may not be recalled later - but the wisdom is there.  It is as though the tumblers inside a lock can be felt falling into place...this is due to the resonance of that inside you which already knows the truth; it recognizes itself.  The affirmation is the internal Aha!  This can be relied on, in my experience.  And it comes back when needed, even if not recalled mentally at any given moment.

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True‚ėļ , and this brings the mind to : What is authentic Self realization ,a realization that stays,once you 'Know ' your Self,you knows it all the time ('into the future' ), doubt no more rises(as to who you are),

 

this " conviction that is so powerful [that even 'Buddha' - one can easily substitute 'Buddha ' for God etc...- cannot sway you from this realization ] " ,

 

wont in any way fades away (from the moment of Realization) anymore for the practioner.

I like what Manitou said on that so -ditto. 

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This is someones explanation on the difference between 'Experience of Self' vs Authentic Self realization (as im not promoting the website or author of this article,theres no need to mention the source of it.)

 

Currious....

 

1. Anyone experiences this 'eureka ' , this 'a ha! ' (read what the author mentioned/describe in the article) before ?What does it feels like?

 

2. Does it (the a ha'/ unshakable realization) stays permanently?

 

 

" One of the direct and immediate response I get after reading the articles by Rob Burbea and Rupert is that they missed one very and most important point when talking about the Eternal Witness Experience -- The Realization. They focus too much on the experience but overlook the realization. Honestly I do not like to make this distinction as I see realization also as a form of experience. However in this particular case, it seems appropriate as it could better illustrate what I am trying to convey. It also relates to the few occasions where you described to me your space-like experiences of Awareness and asked whether they correspond to the phase one insight of Eternal Witness. While your experiences are there, I told you ‚Äėnot exactly‚Äô even though you told me you clearly experienced a pure sense of presence.

 

So what is lacking? You do not lack the experience, you lack the realization. You may have the blissful sensation or feeling of vast and open spaciousness; you may experience a non-conceptual and objectless state; you may experience the mirror like clarity but all these experiences are not Realization. There is no ‚Äėeureka‚Äô, no ‚Äėaha‚Äô, no moment of immediate and intuitive illumination that you understood something undeniable and unshakable -- a conviction so powerful that no one, not even Buddha can sway you from this realization because the practitioner so clearly sees the truth of it. It is the direct and unshakable insight of ‚ÄėYou‚Äô. This is the realization that a practitioner must have in order to realize the Zen satori. You will understand clearly why it is so difficult for those practitioners to forgo this ‚ÄėI AMness‚Äô and accept the doctrine of anatta. Actually there is no forgoing of this ‚ÄėWitness‚Äô, it is rather a deepening of insight to include the non-dual, groundlessness and interconnectedness of our luminous nature. Like what Rob said, "keep the experience but refine the views".

 

Lastly this realization is not an end by itself, it is the beginning. If we are truthful and not over exaggerate and get carried away by this initial glimpse, we will realize that we do not gain liberation from this realization; contrary we suffer more after this realization. However it is a powerful condition that motivates a practitioner to embark on a spiritual journey in search of true freedom. "

Before getting into the topic of difference between experience of Self and the actual Self Realization, let us try to understand what is the spiritual effort all about. According to Vedanta philosophy, the spiritual effort is all about identifying our own original Supreme Self within the subtlest core of our personality by giving up our wrong identification with the limited body,mind, intellect and ego that sustains our fallacious and illusory individual personality in the world. The other way to describe spiritual effort is to give up our selfish egoism and egocentric desires of the mind. From this we can easily find out that as long as one keeps talking about an experience of Self, seemingly he / she has still not achieved absolute Self Realization or Samadhi or Mukthi. Lord Shri Krishna when explaining about the state of Self Realization says that it is state of no return, meaning whoever is Self Realized are permanently freed from the bondage of continuous birth and death cycle that the individual Jeeva (Soul) goes through. the state of Self Realization is a transcendental state of consciousness beyond the waking dream and deep sleep state of consciousness. The Kenopanishad gives more proof of authentic Self Realization when the master warns the student that if one thinks that he knows about God or Self Realization, then he does not know about these and he further goes on to say that those who do not know God or Self Realization too know very well about these two. 

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Before getting into the topic of difference between experience of Self and the actual Self Realization, let us try to understand what is the spiritual effort all about. According to Vedanta philosophy, the spiritual effort is all about identifying our own original Supreme Self within the subtlest core of our personality by giving up our wrong identification with the limited body,mind, intellect and ego that sustains our fallacious and illusory individual personality in the world. The other way to describe spiritual effort is to give up our selfish egoism and egocentric desires of the mind. From this we can easily find out that as long as one keeps talking about an experience of Self, seemingly he / she has still not achieved absolute Self Realization or Samadhi or Mukthi. Lord Shri Krishna when explaining about the state of Self Realization says that it is state of no return, meaning whoever is Self Realized are permanently freed from the bondage of continuous birth and death cycle that the individual Jeeva (Soul) goes through. the state of Self Realization is a transcendental state of consciousness beyond the waking dream and deep sleep state of consciousness. The Kenopanishad gives more proof of authentic Self Realization when the master warns the student that if one thinks that he knows about God or Self Realization, then he does not know about these and he further goes on to say that those who do not know God or Self Realization too know very well about these two.

 

So in Vedanta, is there such a thing as "aha" or experience of Self (temporary)? Or would such experiences be considered something else (like maybe a chakra opening), and the practioner kind of misunderstanding the aha event?

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The realizations can be endless. They arise and dissolve just like any other state. Sometimes we get attached to them in their grandiosity, other times we move on from them quickly. I have found that the biggest challenge is to let go of seeing realizations as achievements, successes, or "new levels". There are no levels.

 

Saying we suffer more after realization is no different than claiming suffering ends after realization. There is no formula. Maybe you do and maybe you don't. Can anyone predict all arisings and dissolvings, their timing and disposition?

 

Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. *shrug* It goes on and on, it never ends.

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The realizations can be endless. They arise and dissolve just like any other state. Sometimes we get attached to them in their grandiosity, other times we move on from them quickly. I have found that the biggest challenge is to let go of seeing realizations as achievements, successes, or "new levels". There are no levels.

 

Saying we suffer more after realization is no different than claiming suffering ends after realization. There is no formula. Maybe you do and maybe you don't. Can anyone predict all arisings and dissolvings, their timing and disposition?

 

Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. *shrug* It goes on and on, it never ends.

 

there are results, and things what you don't have to repeat anymore the same way, they disappeared. There are new levels, like: when you get your movement above breath finally, you then can do something new with it what you couldn't before.

Also you will stop acting upon bad desire,it will be replaced slightly lighter form and you will act upon that instead starting with unconscious level, till you play it through all variants till its conscious and disappears or replaces..

 

edit: eventually there is powers and happiness coming, no doubts about it. Just reason and be critical on your current system you do, does it bring results and tare these results giving you hope of achiving ultimate goals.

Edited by allinone

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Before getting into the topic of difference between experience of Self and the actual Self Realization, let us try to understand what is the spiritual effort all about. According to Vedanta philosophy, the spiritual effort is all about identifying our own original Supreme Self within the subtlest core of our personality by giving up our wrong identification with the limited body,mind, intellect and ego that sustains our fallacious and illusory individual personality in the world. The other way to describe spiritual effort is to give up our selfish egoism and egocentric desires of the mind. From this we can easily find out that as long as one keeps talking about an experience of Self, seemingly he / she has still not achieved absolute Self Realization or Samadhi or Mukthi. Lord Shri Krishna when explaining about the state of Self Realization says that it is state of no return, meaning whoever is Self Realized are permanently freed from the bondage of continuous birth and death cycle that the individual Jeeva (Soul) goes through. the state of Self Realization is a transcendental state of consciousness beyond the waking dream and deep sleep state of consciousness. The Kenopanishad gives more proof of authentic Self Realization when the master warns the student that if one thinks that he knows about God or Self Realization, then he does not know about these and he further goes on to say that those who do not know God or Self Realization too know very well about these two. 

 

I think Prasanna says it very well.  I just finished studying Vasistha's Yoga and this is the theme of the tome, repeated deeper and broader with each chapter and story.  Vasistha describes to Lord Rama that the jiva is the same as a ripple upon still waters; a slight disturbance or a whirlpool that fancies itself separate from the ocean.  Whereas in fact it is the ocean, the jiva (jeeva) merely thinking it is a separate entity.  An onion is peeled on the journey; the onion of self-realization is peeled down to the point even below the jiva; peeled down to the place of Consciousness, pure void, pure potentiality; devoid of karma, conditioning, attachment, aversion, or seeing or realizing separation of what the Daodejing might call the 10,000 things.

 

The entity of enlightenment is one who is unfazed by all occurrence and phenomena, realizing all to be illusion, all entities living (dreaming) in their separate universes.  To 'rest in truth' or 'rest in peace' lies under even Brahma, as a creative entity, to Brahman, the potentiality of Awareness; the stone in which all sculptures (form) lie in potentiality.

Edited by manitou
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So in Vedanta, is there such a thing as "aha" or experience of Self (temporary)? Or would such experiences be considered something else (like maybe a chakra opening), and the practioner kind of misunderstanding the aha event?

I don't know about Chakras at all. But according to my understanding of Vedanta philosophy, Every life experience is a "Aha experience of Self". This state of recognizing Divinity in every aspect of the world is known as Partial Self Realization. This is callled partial Self Realization because as long as the individual ego sustains in the personality it still remains in a Duality of world and itself as two different entities. There is still an experiencer and an experienced. But in total or Full Self Realization, the ego is completely lost and there is no difference between the world, the experiencer and the experienced. A Realized soul is just a witness to whatever that is happening according to his prarabdha karma.

Edited by Prasanna
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Self is light. You can rediscover it as much you turn the lights on. If you close the lights off then it means there is no self, if you turn them on then there is self.

So from where the light is appearing and disappearing? Wires. Self moves in wires. We can measure it, guide it, manipulate it, transform it.

You can work with your body, learn it. Self is there moving in veins, nervous system, lymph system, bones, bone marrow..

 

I afraid that if talked about losing Ego, attaining no-self, it has become some kind of "meme" and not very much pointing to investigation and training, learning, practicing and applying knowledge.

 

edit: when the external light go out, you still in pitch black can realize the self and feel it like electricity in wires, there is tangible sense when you have it plugged in to energy source of your body. For that there is wiring needing to get done.

Edited by allinone

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Self is light. You can rediscover it as much you turn the lights on. If you close the lights off then it means there is no self, if you turn them on then there is self.

So from where the light is appearing and disappearing? Wires. Self moves in wires. We can measure it, guide it, manipulate it, transform it.

You can work with your body, learn it. Self is there moving in veins, nervous system, lymph system, bones, bone marrow..

 

I afraid that if talked about losing Ego, attaining no-self, it has become some kind of "meme" and not very much pointing to investigation and training, learning, practicing and applying knowledge.

 

edit: when the external light go out, you still in pitch black can realize the self and feel it like electricity in wires, there is tangible sense when you have it plugged in to energy source of your body. For that there is wiring needing to get done.

 

 

A very practical view!  This is about as good as it comes to exploring the physical.

 

My view is that my universe is not the same as yours or anyone else's.  We can't possibly see the same thing, at the same time, in the same way.  We remanifest ourselves from second to second from the great underlying consciousness, but it is filtered through your brain, my brain, Prasanna's brain in different ways, because our conditioning, our memories, our mental habits, our karma, our attachments, our aversions are different.  In some Sutras these would be called Buddhalands? (My understanding may be wrong there, and I would love a correction from Prasanna if that's the case)  These universes are ad infinitum, springing from the nothingness of consciousness - consciousness which encompasses the past, present, and future as Now.  This not only works in the breadth of quantity, but the height and depth of time, size, universes within universes, universes within atoms, that which we can't begin to imagine because of the limitations of our brains.  Our universe may be contained within an atom, for all we know.

 

This is actually a practical way to live, not an outdated meme, as I see it.  The more I keep in the front of my awareness the unreality of the play that is playing out in front of my eyes, and don't buy into the separation of the 10,000 things, the more peace of heart I have.  There is no cause for alarm, for anxiety, for stress. 

 

I walked my dogs this morning through a beautiful Florida group of trees, Spanish moss hanging, an eighth moon shining through the trees, a soft breeze hitting the receptor sensors on my skin.  The sky was a mix of blue and coral.  I started to cry, because I realized at that moment of bliss that 'I was all of this'.  All of this was the dream contained within me, a projection of the Awareness of both the oneness and the nothingness of all of it.

 

What is it?  Neti, neti?

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Self is light. You can rediscover it as much you turn the lights on. If you close the lights off then it means there is no self, if you turn them on then there is self.

So from where the light is appearing and disappearing? Wires. Self moves in wires. We can measure it, guide it, manipulate it, transform it.

You can work with your body, learn it. Self is there moving in veins, nervous system, lymph system, bones, bone marrow..

 

I afraid that if talked about losing Ego, attaining no-self, it has become some kind of "meme" and not very much pointing to investigation and training, learning, practicing and applying knowledge.

 

edit: when the external light go out, you still in pitch black can realize the self and feel it like electricity in wires, there is tangible sense when you have it plugged in to energy source of your body. For that there is wiring needing to get done.

I am not well versed with your terminology. In Vedanta we talk about two different 'selfs'. One self is the little self with 's' in small letters and the other is the Supreme Self  or Self with 'S' in capital letters. Little self or self is nothing but our individual worldly personality which is due to the identification with Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego. The other Self or Supreme self is the God which is the subtlest enlivening principle that is the source, cause and substratum of life, life experiences and is responsible for the proper functioning of our various faculties of Body, Mind, Intellect, Memory and Ego. In short, without Self (Supreme Self) there is no little self. Our ego which exists due to our identification with the Body, Mind and Intellect plays the fool and assumes the reality of the Supreme Self when in reality it is an emergent principle which is imaginary. The difference between Supreme Self and ego or little self is the difference between an object and its Shadow. Shadow exists only until the light falls on the real object. Similarly Ego exists only till we, the Supreme Self, are wrongly identified with the Body, Mind, Intellect and their world of objects, beings and experiences. The entire spiritual effort is getting rid of this false identification that gives rise to the imaginary ego and getting rid of the desires of the Mind which boosts our imaginary ego.

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A very practical view!  This is about as good as it comes to exploring the physical.

 

My view is that my universe is not the same as yours or anyone else's.  We can't possibly see the same thing, at the same time, in the same way.  We remanifest ourselves from second to second from the great underlying consciousness, but it is filtered through your brain, my brain, Prasanna's brain in different ways, because our conditioning, our memories, our mental habits, our karma, our attachments, our aversions are different.  In some Sutras these would be called Buddhalands? (My understanding may be wrong there, and I would love a correction from Prasanna if that's the case)  These universes are ad infinitum, springing from the nothingness of consciousness - consciousness which encompasses the past, present, and future as Now.  This not only works in the breadth of quantity, but the height and depth of time, size, universes within universes, universes within atoms, that which we can't begin to imagine because of the limitations of our brains.  Our universe may be contained within an atom, for all we know.

 

This is actually a practical way to live, not an outdated meme, as I see it.  The more I keep in the front of my awareness the unreality of the play that is playing out in front of my eyes, and don't buy into the separation of the 10,000 things, the more peace of heart I have.  There is no cause for alarm, for anxiety, for stress. 

 

I walked my dogs this morning through a beautiful Florida group of trees, Spanish moss hanging, an eighth moon shining through the trees, a soft breeze hitting the receptor sensors on my skin.  The sky was a mix of blue and coral.  I started to cry, because I realized at that moment of bliss that 'I was all of this'.  All of this was the dream contained within me, a projection of the Awareness of both the oneness and the nothingness of all of it.

 

What is it?  Neti, neti?

Very true, We are the all pervading God or Supreme Self within indeed, not this limited existence of physical, emotional and intellectual experiences alone. We should not mistake a part for the whole.

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I am not well versed with your terminology. In Vedanta we talk about two different 'selfs'. One self is the little self with 's' in small letters and the other is the Supreme Self  or Self with 'S' in capital letters. Little self or self is nothing but our individual worldly personality which is due to the identification with Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego. The other Self or Supreme self is the God which is the subtlest enlivening principle that is the source, cause and substratum of life, life experiences and is responsible for the proper functioning of our various faculties of Body, Mind, Intellect, Memory and Ego. In short, without Self (Supreme Self) there is no little self. Our ego which exists due to our identification with the Body, Mind and Intellect plays the fool and assumes the reality of the Supreme Self when in reality it is an emergent principle which is imaginary. The difference between Supreme Self and ego or little self is the difference between an object and its Shadow. Shadow exists only until the light falls on the real object. Similarly Ego exists only till we, the Supreme Self, are wrongly identified with the Body, Mind, Intellect and their world of objects, beings and experiences. The entire spiritual effort is getting rid of this false identification that gives rise to the imaginary ego and getting rid of the desires of the Mind which boosts our imaginary ego.

 

if i say "i exist". i can then pinpoint where i am. It clears the dust. I then got to know how to do it as a concentration, i can also sense it and feel the "self".

So i can cultivate the self-identification. I get information what i am, what i am going to do, what i did, where i came, what i have to do, what is going on right now, what i yearn....you name it.

 

edit: see i have someone to take care of and pay attention to, that's my own self.

 

Don't say that's the Ego?

Edited by allinone

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A very practical view!  This is about as good as it comes to exploring the physical.

 

My view is that my universe is not the same as yours or anyone else's.  We can't possibly see the same thing, at the same time, in the same way.  We remanifest ourselves from second to second from the great underlying consciousness, but it is filtered through your brain, my brain, Prasanna's brain in different ways, because our conditioning, our memories, our mental habits, our karma, our attachments, our aversions are different.  In some Sutras these would be called Buddhalands? (My understanding may be wrong there, and I would love a correction from Prasanna if that's the case)  These universes are ad infinitum, springing from the nothingness of consciousness - consciousness which encompasses the past, present, and future as Now.  This not only works in the breadth of quantity, but the height and depth of time, size, universes within universes, universes within atoms, that which we can't begin to imagine because of the limitations of our brains.  Our universe may be contained within an atom, for all we know.

 

This is actually a practical way to live, not an outdated meme, as I see it.  The more I keep in the front of my awareness the unreality of the play that is playing out in front of my eyes, and don't buy into the separation of the 10,000 things, the more peace of heart I have.  There is no cause for alarm, for anxiety, for stress. 

 

I walked my dogs this morning through a beautiful Florida group of trees, Spanish moss hanging, an eighth moon shining through the trees, a soft breeze hitting the receptor sensors on my skin.  The sky was a mix of blue and coral.  I started to cry, because I realized at that moment of bliss that 'I was all of this'.  All of this was the dream contained within me, a projection of the Awareness of both the oneness and the nothingness of all of it.

 

What is it?  Neti, neti?

 

its your sense of beauty. Appreciation of aesthetics.

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its your sense of beauty. Appreciation of aesthetics.

 

 

When you speak of 'it' being in your bones, your marrow, etc - I think you are saying the same that others are.  It is the underlying Intelligence contained within all.  Ancient Toltecs would call it the Manitou.

 

No, it's not just my appreciation of aesthetics.¬† The sense of bliss happened to occur during a particular beautiful moment, and those are the ones that are easy to come by.¬† The more difficult ones are sitting in traffic, or having someone cut you off at an intersection, or waiting in line, or sitting and waiting for results in a doctor's office.¬† But I imagine that a truly liberated person, liberated totally from ego, will experience those moments nearly constantly during the day, because he/she realizes in his core who, or what, he really is.¬† He is‚Äč the underlying force and as such doesn't fall prey to the dream.¬† He realizes¬†that his physical self and his ego are¬†merely the shadow in Plato's cave.¬† The essence, the fire, is behind him.¬† To me, at this point in my practice, it becomes solely a question of remaining in Awareness of what I am.¬† I am the cosmic broth in the cosmic vegetable soup, each vegetable one of the 10,000 things.¬† Only there is no limit to the soup - it is all there is.

 

We are Everything, and we are Nothing.  We are the potentiality prior to the I Am.  That thing that is warm inside us, that limitless sense that doesn't move from point A to point B, which remains constant regardless of what is happening to us - that is who we are.  And we all share it, the same Consciousness, the same Awareness - just filtered differently from the inside to the outside.

Edited by manitou

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When you speak of 'it' being in your bones, your marrow, etc - I think you are saying the same that others are.  It is the underlying Intelligence contained within all.  Ancient Toltecs would call it the Manitou.

 

No, it's not just my appreciation of aesthetics.¬† The sense of bliss happened to occur during a particular beautiful moment, and those are the ones that are easy to come by.¬† The more difficult ones are sitting in traffic, or having someone cut you off at an intersection, or waiting in line, or sitting and waiting for results in a doctor's office.¬† But I imagine that a truly liberated person, liberated totally from ego, will experience those moments nearly constantly during the day, because he/she realizes in his core who, or what, he really is.¬† He is‚Äč the underlying force and as such doesn't fall prey to the dream.¬† He realizes¬†that his physical self and his ego are¬†merely the shadow in Plato's cave.¬† The essence, the fire, is behind him.¬† To me, at this point in my practice, it becomes solely a question of remaining in Awareness of what I am.¬† I am the cosmic broth in the cosmic vegetable soup, each vegetable one of the 10,000 things.¬† Only there is no limit to the soup - it is all there is.

 

We are Everything, and we are Nothing.  We are the potentiality prior to the I Am.  That thing that is warm inside us, that limitless sense that doesn't move from point A to point B, which remains constant regardless of what is happening to us - that is who we are.  And we all share it, the same Consciousness, the same Awareness - just filtered differently from the inside to the outside.

 

okay, i think i get it. You are becoming aware of yourself and it is blissful. It is harder when there is more activity and easier in silence, alone.

 

the light of awareness shines on you from a particular angle, you are becoming aware of that light when you become aware. The waters of habit are coming from the back of the head and coming down from the forehead, these are like unfinished business from previous day or habits you used to do during a day. So if you become aware then locating the habits center or what is the darkening factor then at some point you will have inner concentration "to chest" and reach belly where past images and you see habits with a form..

 

Maybe i push too much..but at some point you need to grab that awareness and keep awaken to it or realize it with will power(neck, swallow, throat area) included. Otherwise it will remain head only, as with breath you make path to body, breath is substance or energy needed for getting from ehad to body, torso.

 

What i say is or point to is doable practice, not philosophy only. So if someone says of realizing self then a fundamentalist will say no you not realized it, and then doesn't provide any practical evidence why.

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Thanks, allinone.

 

why?

 

darkness has to be cultivated too. Its that it feels many times longer, is tedious and the urge to change the object or do something is many times more likely happen. Nothing seem to satisfy and if see an object then the desire is strong but can't satisfy it no matter how much you do there still is something missing.

 

If someone describes blissful stuff, life is magical; the night will come soon.

 

edit: there is special consciousness to be discovered, a way to concentrate. What it does is make the link between dream(legs, hands) and wakefulness, so that you wouldn't sneeze, caught, throw up(etc) but your body would have a path to head.

Edited by allinone

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Your ideas bring to mind much of the Castenda path - although I know he's a controversial one on this forum.  But his continual references to the assemblage point moving and changing our perspective is very much like what you are writing about, even including lucid dreaming.  I suspect that your previous mention of wires correlates to his usage of the word filaments - of which I have only had the privilege of seeing on one occasion while driving out in the desert.  The actual connectedness of everything to everything else.  But once seen, very difficult to forget.

 

Yes, how habitual we can become. Much of my being-ness for the past month has been in my head, although the study of Vasistha's Yoga has been at the forefront of this.  But on our physical level, it has been a constant round of doctor's appointments and drudgery.  The study of that particular tome has been invaluable to me, in order to transcend the drudgery.  It's just where I am right now.

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I haven't read Castaneda works.

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Lucid dream ends with dark.

There is also different dream what is dark and fearful and end with light.

 

there are punch of people clinging to lucid dreams, psyhonauts etc..edit: can be misleading.

Edited by allinone

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