Kongming

Questions on Yangshen

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, freeform said:

Not pulling any punches today! :D

:D

Thanks, that was really helpful.

 

What I still wonder about is there are contexts where people just talk about the hun and po, as you did earlier in the thread, and as Damo did in his podcast about the soul, as if the (heart) shen, yi, and zhi are irrelevant in such contexts, and I'm wondering exactly what those contexts are.  Reincarnation?  Surely the shen and yi play into that.  Drives/impetus to take action?  Surely the shen and yi play into that too.  

 

Let me give my best guess as a starting point.  Drive/impetus to action and reincarnation are two sides of the same coin.  Shen is where information from that which is beyond reincarnation comes from, so it is not considered relevant to that process, yi is fundamentally neutral unless interacting with other spirits and so is not considered relevant, and zhi is the fundamental drive behind it all but is itself also neutral, and so is not considered relevant. 

 

Also, the term yi-nian comes up in WLP's material a lot, is yi as you are using it (as both awareness and intent) synonymous with yi-nian?

Edited by Creation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Creation said:

Thanks, that was really helpful.


I re-read it and it sounded a bit chaotic and confusing 😅

 

But I’m glad you made at least some sense of it.

 

19 minutes ago, Creation said:

as if the (heart) shen, yi, and zhi are irrelevant in such contexts, and I'm wondering exactly what those contexts are.  Reincarnation?  Surely the shen and yi play into that.  Drives/impetus to take action?  Surely the shen and yi play into that too.  


The different contexts kinda follows the different ‘bodies’ and the corresponding ‘realms’ that they exist in… most of the information available on Daoism is in regards to your physical and energetic bodies… with the soul, we’re talking about some of the higher bodies.

 

The Shen, Yi and Zhi are not aspects of the soul as such - but the Zhi connects you to physicality - to Jing and Ming… but upon death it dissolves.

 

The Shen is like a lake that reflects the Dao - or at least is capable of it - if it can become still enough… But it dissolves back into heaven upon death.

 

The Yi - as you say doesn’t have much of its own function except in how it anchors and relates with the other spirits. It also dissolves upon death.

 

The impetus for reincarnation is on a different, higher realm than the soul.

 

You can break the bodies and their relevant realms into 3: heavenly, earthly and human (and they are subdivided further in my tradition).
 

The soul is in one of the higher ‘human’ realms… the soul is in essence individuated - (though the Hun also has a connection to all human souls and all your past and future incarnations.)

 

The impetus to incarnate or reincarnate happens in one of the heavenly realms…

 

(The original spirit which is not individuated in the same way as the soul also exists within these higher realms.)

 

44 minutes ago, Creation said:

Also, the term yi-nian comes up in WLP's material a lot, is yi as you are using it (as both awareness and intent) synonymous with yi-nian?


Yes exactly

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

You can break the bodies and their relevant realms into 3: heavenly, earthly and human (and they are subdivided further in my tradition).

I've heard of 8, and a further subdivision into 64.  You always mention how your teacher explains these things in terms of the Yijing, are the 8/64 bodies put in correspondence with the trigrams/hexagrams?  And do heaven and human get subdivided into three each and earth only into two, or some other permutation of that arrangement?

Edited by Creation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Creation said:

I've heard of 8, and a further subdivision into 64. 


Haha - well my teacher teaches 9… and 72.

 

But it doesn’t really matter so much.

 

49 minutes ago, Creation said:

You always mention how your teacher explains these things in terms of the Yijing, are the 8/64 bodies put in correspondence with the trigrams/hexagrams?


Whilst anything can be explained in terms of the hexagrams, my teacher primarily uses the Yi Jing to describe change, rather than stable things… sorry I can’t be much less cryptic than that 😅

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Well, it answered the question 😁

 

But ok, true yin + true yang +true intention makes marvellous result. 


How would you describe true yin (note - this is not a yes/no question :) )

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Bindi said:


How would you describe true yin (note - this is not a yes/no question :) )

Note how I go in to avoidance mode when such a direct question pops up 😁

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Freeform can write textbook.


i find this stuff fascinating - I just don’t have the skill to explain it in an easy to understand, elegant way

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, freeform said:


i find this stuff fascinating - I just don’t have the skill to explain it in an easy to understand, elegant way

I recommend avoidance mode 😁

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/07/2021 at 1:28 PM, Bindi said:


How would you describe true yin (note - this is not a yes/no question :) )

 

I imagine by now you’ve found information on this because I know you’re a good researcher. And, having read it, you may understand Cleansox’s reticence about answering your question. 

 

I’ve attached an essay by Fabrizio Pregadio which I’ve recently read that makes good reference to true yin and true yang in the context of Liu Yiming’s perspective on correct and incorrect Neidan practice. I consider it an essay well worth reading whether or not one agrees with Liu Yiming.  As Pregado notes,  Liu Yiming’s “views on Neidan are, on the one hand, grounded in some the most deep-rooted aspects of this tradition, but also, on the other hand, so adverse to convention as to appear radical in their detachment from accepted standards. However, while Liu Yiming’s teachings on Neidan are in many ways unique, his works represent one of the most important instances of an integral exposition doctrine in the history of this tradition”.

 

Also worth noting is that Liu Yiming was an 11th-generation master of one of the northern branches of the Longmen (Dragon Gate) lineage.

 

Discriminations in Cultivating the Tao.pdf

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, freeform said:


i find this stuff fascinating - I just don’t have the skill to explain it in an easy to understand, elegant way

 

You do very well. I very much like reading your contributions here even though my own perspective on alchemy is markedly different from yours. It's also worth noting that no one has ever been able to write about the deeper levels of alchemy in an easy to understand way.  That simply is not possible.  As Isabelle Robinet writes in The World Upside Down, "The language of alchemy is a language that attempts to say the contradictory." 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2021-07-24 at 6:22 AM, Yueya said:

Liu Yiming’s perspective on correct and incorrect Neidan practice.

You just inspired me to read Cultivating the Tao (Xiuzhen houbian). 

Maybe I will resonate better with Liu this time. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites