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3bob

ferocity of Tao

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We often hear of the gentle, clam, and or balanced Tao which are fine aspects but we do not often hear of the ferocity of the Tao... a ferocity that is greater and stronger than all others!

 

And in that ferocity the One is born and the One also returns.

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How do we measure ferocity? In the eyes of man?

 

That within the All cannot be calm and gentle, without first being stimulated.

 

The birth and death of a star are perhaps one of the most voilent things man has witnessed, in terms of sheer force..Yet, it is also the bringer of life, a refreshing breeze, the drought and the rains. Even most of these experiences are limited to computer interpretation, and not something we can ever know the full feel of.

 

We know that All cannot be comprehended by the mind of man. We can barely understand ourselves!

 

So what is ferocity amidst All? The beginning or the end? Neither. It is but a single working in the grand scheme of things. A string plucked with a little more force, causing a little more effect. This happens on a scale that can always be added to, can always contain more, yet at a certain point the grand noise becomes silence to all, but the All.

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The water analogy always holds true. Water can be calm, or it can wipe out nations. There is nothing unnatural about ferocious waves, yet they come from nowhere and disappear once they break.

 

I'm curious though. Is ferocity a yang thing, or is it a natural tendency arising from any form of creation?

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I'm curious though. Is ferocity a yang thing, or is it a natural tendency arising from any form of creation?

My opinion, without any knowledge base, it is both Yang and YIn.  Sure, the obvious is Yang, however, It is the interaction of the two in an effort to reestablish harmony and balance.

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The water analogy always holds true. Water can be calm, or it can wipe out nations. There is nothing unnatural about ferocious waves, yet they come from nowhere and disappear once they break.

 

I'm curious though. Is ferocity a yang thing, or is it a natural tendency arising from any form of creation?

I always say the tidal wave is the yang, the still pond is the yin. The whole is water...

 

So, do we practice meditation because there is naturally more ferocious energy in the air from our daily lives? Probably. So should we always be in a calm, stress free environment? Probably not.

 

Every now and then, I think explosive chaos can be a wonderful thing.

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Every now and then, I think explosive chaos can be a wonderful thing.

That's funny.  True, but funny.

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if Tao is connected to a certain ferocity (which it takes to bring the multi-verse or entire cosmos into being) can we say Tao has no ferocity?  (although and granted the idea of naming the un-nameable is problematic...)

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It is my opinion that whenever Tao (all things of the universe) loses its balance and harmony it will take a bit of ferocity in order to regain a little balance and harmony.  If the universe were static there would be no need for ferocity.  But we all know that Tao is constant change.

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if Tao is connected to a certain ferocity (which it takes to bring the multi-verse or entire cosmos into being) can we say Tao has no ferocity? (although and granted the idea of naming the un-nameable is problematic...)

I'm sure you already know the answer ;)

 

Tao is ignorant of the words we place on certain happenings. Tao contains what we call ferocious, yet to the mind of Tao, the same action is compareable to how the wind feels about blowing to the east or west.

 

Bacteria, if they could express themselves with words, might have a thing or two to say about the ferocious way we wash our hands. :P

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It is my opinion that whenever Tao (all things of the universe) loses its balance and harmony it will take a bit of ferocity in order to regain a little balance and harmony.  If the universe were static there would be no need for ferocity.  But we all know that Tao is constant change.

 

I'd say we all know that there is constant change related to the interplay of yang and yin...

 

whereas with the "absolute" there can be no change for if there was it would not be absolute.  (per the way I see Chapter 25 of the T.T.C.)

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We often hear of the gentle, clam, and or balanced Tao which are fine aspects but we do not often hear of the ferocity of the Tao... a ferocity that is greater and stronger than all others!

 

And in that ferocity the One is born and the One also returns.

 

 

Good Gong Fu exemplifies the ferocity of Dao.

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whereas with the "absolute" there can be no change for if there was it would not be absolute.  (per the way I see Chapter 25 of the T.T.C.)

Good catch 3bob.  The absolute, the totality, The One.  Never changing.  It really can't change, can it, else it wouldn't be the absolute, the totality, the One.

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If Dao is all things then why concern ourselves with neat descriptions of gentle, calm, balanced, ferocity.  Generally Dao is described as Wu Wei or Zi Ran; these cover the spectrum of gentle><ferocity.   So we can get in the weeds of distinctive names or aim for the more singular representative descriptions which LZ offers.   While they are also just words they seek to cover all cases.

 

If something is balanced, then there is no change occurring... but it was said that Dao is constant change... ergo, Dao cannot be balance.   I personally don't think Dao contains a concern for balance or is about balance. It is suchness or Isness, which brings us back to Zi Ran.   It effortlessly (Wu Wei) allows anything to occur; each thing according to its nature.  That is going to bring lots of conflict on some level.

 

The universe was produced and a swirling mass for billions of years... now that we find ourselves here, we see life now like a slow moving frame by frame... when we look at a frame and then the next one, they look the same, unchanging... yet run it at Dao speed and it is never static, never in a pure balance.   We think a car engine runs 'smoothly' as if it was in a constant balance, yet if you look at the combustion necessary, you really it requires constant change at the right time (spark) to keep things appearing smooth.

 

A pleasant sunrise or an earthquake are the same from the perspective of Dao.  Both processes occur completely naturally (back to Zi Ran) and effortlessly (back to Wu Wei).

 

One never changes.... yet is ever-changing...  Where is Rene to say, 'both/and'...   I resolve this differently but that was another thread...

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I look at it just a little differently.  Tao is constant whereas its Mystery and Manifestations are constantly in flux.

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