max and the SF kunlun workshop

[Sahaj Nath]

Hundun,

You little stinker.

 

One song keeps rolling through my head as I read your ka-ka: "smile in your face, all the time they want to take your place, backstabbers, backstabbers..."

 

Wow. You know after your first email in which you "announced your presence" to me I thought "oh great, another egotistical healer-syndrome-chump." Then when I met you, you seemed like a really nice guy. Now we are seeing the first guy again.

 

Here is the problem with Mr. Hundun: ego.

 

When you do Kunlun it is always the people who have the air of pride about them that get NO results. The problem becomes compounded when they look around and see everyone else is opening up. The ego cannot deal with this and the reaction is not good. In this case it was a quick exit on day two right before the dreaded Kunlun failure was about to be faced again.

 

Honestly man, you don't actually have much ability at this point. The ego makes it very hard to develop the real thing, because the real thing is all about feel. When you feel your way, you have to FEEL all of the shortcomings that cause the creation of a imbalanced ego in the first place.

 

After you left (mumbling about parlor tricks and how you could do all this stuff yourself) the group really opened up. It was awesome.

 

The Tibetan Lamas that were in attendance had amazing breakthroughs and they understood the fullness of what Max has to offer. They know who he is and how very rare it is to find someone at his level.

 

Again, from the outside, this stuff looks like a different bird. If you are sensitive or have had some experience with these types of energies, then you see the value.

 

 

i'm sorry to disappoint you. and if i were you, i'd feel the same way. it wasn't my intention for it to go down that way. i did smile in your face. and i meant it. and i really did stay open to see it through. and i wanted to believe. i really did.

 

i personally think that you could have led a better seminar than max did. your clarity and straightforwardness was something i really wanted to get from him. but i didn't. i smiled. i was open. i was respectful. and i suspended as much disbelief as much as i could for as long as i could.

 

i can make no apology for that.

 

 

you're welcome to say i'm ego-tripping. all i can really say is "no, i'm not." i was sorely disappointed.

 

his lack of knowledge wasn't my fault. is fraudulent claims weren't my fault. his lack of coherence wasn't my fault. his haphazard organization wasn't my fault.

 

and those guys i was "mumbling to" about parlor tricks? those were the same guys i encouraged to stick around for the weekend and give it a shot. they were ready to walk after the free lecture. maybe you think it would have been better if they weren't there. i don't know. but i meant well. and that's all i can do.

 

i'm not a novice. i'm not going to pretend to be for the sake of modesty. but i willingly admit that i'm not very far in my journey. i don't think that's unreasonable.

 

 

i really need to get to bed.

 

 

 

 

The practice stands the test of time. Opinions are as vast as the universe. Everyone is entitled to their own.

 

Kunlun is not for everyone. That is OK.

 

The two people who had no response gave bad reviews. That is unfortunate but very understandable.

 

Had they blasted open into the absurdity of the Tao, they might have a different review. In time I hope they experience the things the rest of the group did.

 

 

you misjudge what i experienced and where i have been.

 

perhaps i'll get into this with you tomorrow.

[Cameron]

I said it to Sean at one of the Adyashanti intensives we went to last year and I will say it again.

 

We are all a bunch of drama queens.

 

It's all good though. As somebody somewhere said "that's what makes the world go 'round".

 

peace

[minkus]

Been away for the weekend, seems like alot happend in the meanwhile didnt read anything yet, time to do so it seems o.O

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Mantra,

 

Is this KunLun chi kung 1,2,3 that is in the book the only Kunlun Max has or is Red Phoenix part of Kunlun or a different system? Also will he make public the Red Phoenix later for people abroad?

 

WYG

[Mantra68]

i asked him at the free lecture if he could explain to me the distinction between magnetism and qi, as i had learned that the magnetism aspect is more yin and the electrical aspect is more yang. these are his exact words:

 

"well, in mao shan we're taught that when the yin and yang- electrical in the body- we call it... say you look at yoga. you have the sun & moon channels- what happens is, you have the yin & yang, you're breathing in and out. when those collapse from practicing, the outer breath disappears, the inner breath becomes apparent. the sushumna, the central channel becomes activated. in mao shan they say "the secret of the golden flower." and to practice, what you do is like this (makes a hand mudra). and the mao shan daoists they'll have a certain sound and visualization for each one. and they hold this posture- this is the first thing that they do. when you practice the secret of the golden flower this is what the mao shan [daoists] are practicing.

 

now, with this type of practice you might save 3-5 years if you did just the mao shan..."

 

this was his response to my question. WORD FOR WORD.

 

he said more, but it didn't get any better, and i don't feel like transcribing the rest of it.

This is inaccurate. I was there. The parts you failed to include are the parts you failed to hear.

 

after the lecture i introduced myself the chris (mantra) and told him that i wasn't sure my question was answered. he at least gave me a coherent response, but he didn't really know, so, of course, he asked his teacher to explain it. and again, max is all over the place EXCEPT where my question is leading. so chris sort of cut him off (respectfully) and reiterated what the question was. he didn't really have an answer. what it came down to was what he said above: that he sees the electrical energy as qi and the magnetic energy as... well... something else.

yeah. taoist master my ass.

are the techniques effective? yes. they can be. but moreso than any other system? no.

What I told you was that chi is electric and the magnetic energy is harder to explain. It is harder to explain because it is an extension of divine will; your own. When that didn't really register with you I said "ok maybe Max can explain it better to you, so I pulled him from another conversation and he basically told you the same thing.

 

You claimed to understand, but apparently you didn't.

 

cameron was torn between which master he was going to see prior to attending the LA workshop. my guess is that had cameron saw the other guy and had the other guy given a direct transmission, cam probably would have experienced the same (or at least a very similar) awakening. cameron wasn't very far from opening those floodgates on his own. and i got the impression that max had never dealt with anyone who had openned up so radically before.

 

As to Cameron, Max knew exactly what he was going through. He prescribed a remedy.

 

max claims that his "wisdom eye" is so developed that he's unable to drive because he sees too much. yet he was completely unaware of the energy i was flowing. a couple of people at the seminar and, later, one of his own assistants commented on it and wondered about my level. yet in our private session everything he shared with me was as if i were a novice. his transmission was hardly noticeable, though it doesn't take much to awake a soul that's ripe. he certainly knows a few tricks, but in my opinion he's no master.

 

my students are more skilled than his, and i'm not even close to being a master of anything.

Hundun, the arrogance in this paragraph perfectly supports my impression of you. The spirit you approach these things with is just a bit skewed, friend.

 

This is: "He failed to see my brilliance, so he must be an incompetent fool."

 

they're running a business. a workshop business. and the quality and organization could use some serious work.

 

i'm not trying to just tear this guy down. i payed $450 for the workshop and the private session. even after the horrible screw-ups in the free lecture on friday, i chose and even encouraged others who were put off to give it a shot anyway. it's just money. and maybe he doesn't have the knowledge, but if he has the abilities, it doesn't matter much.

 

i'm glad i went. i honestly don't care about the money that much.

Nope. You are getting a full refund. We don't want your money if you are that unhappy with things. This not about money for us.

 

We have to cover our costs so money is in the equation and we need to charge something so that we can continue to try to reach the people who resonate with this practice. So, we have had to become somewhat organized to handle the amount of people we get. So what if we're not experts at it. We are doing our best.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Mantra68

[Cameron]

I think I see now Max did know what I was going through. And I think he maybe saw who I was sort of "hooked up" with also.

 

Whatever the heck that means

 

My basic feeling. What I have had for awhile but has been sort of corrupted by this "other thing". Basically we need to cultivate as much of a "laid back" approach to all of this we can.

 

Has been my experience speaking with "Taoists" online last..well..howeve rlong it has been..most people do anything but have a laid back approach to all of this.

 

Yoda and Sean O for the most part are the exceptions.

 

Anyways.

[Mantra68]

yes, he did. and no, i wasn't impressed.

i hope everyone reads this.

 

actually, this was the nature of the challenge that was made to him on friday night. the man asked if he would demonstrate on someone other than his students. he offered himself, but would have been satisfied with anyone who didn't know max beforehand. at first max said that if he did that, it would cause internal bleeding because the body of an uninitiated person can't handle the magnitude of energy.

 

they guy basically called bullshit and said that he flat-out didn't buy it, said that the movie trailer was deliberately misleading, openly challenged him, and said that he would accept the consequence of internal bleeding if it were real.

 

then max's story changed a little bit.

 

then, it was "you have to meet us half-way" for ethical reasons,

Kunlun energy is used in the demonstrations with Kan and others. He even had a blind girl perform the same thing on Kan after passing the energy through her. She had already opened her Kunlun and so it worked.

 

The energy required to nail the guy who challenged Max is different. It would not be Kunlun as he clearly stated. This guy's system was not open to Kunlun so it would be a different type of force. This type of energy would have hurt the man. Max refuses to hurt people, especially for this type of situation.

 

He is a Boddhisattva. Truly.

i still went through the workshop in good faith and with an open mind after this. again, i could accept that he was lacking in knowledge and was compensating with sensationalism, so long as he could produce real ability in the area that *I* cared about! i could scrap all the rest of it.

 

but there was nothing there. nothing substantial.

i have patients and students who go into involuntary movements and spasms when i run my energy; i know that it happens for real. i have a student that i've taken to deep blissful states through meditation and a patient that has decided to sponsor my work because of the blissful and "out-of-body" states that she experiences when i work on her without touch.

 

but i'm no master. mastery is in the details. in the subtleties. i don't have that.

 

but neither does max. he uses jargon that makes it sound as if he's in complete control, but it's not there. and he unknowingly confessed all of that on friday as well as saturday.

 

i remained forgiving and open until sunday morning. i stayed for maybe half an hour during the stance practice which he led so badly and haphazardly that i wanted to step in and lead the class.

 

You missed it Hundun. I am sorry things looked so wrong to you. Perhaps things were presented in a way that you didn't understand or you simply expected something different, I don't know.

 

The rest of the group had a great experience.

 

No one teacher is for everybody and no one system is for everybody, but there is no question that when it comes to opening human being to their greater reality, Max is a master.

 

When you start to travel into the Tao he is one of the best guides you will ever come across. Period.

[三江源]

Thanks Hundun for sharing your level of response. You've given a traditionally respectable context to your point of view, which I appreciate and I'm sure others do too.

Hello Hundun,

Interesting view.

I have another view on this that presents the kindness and humility of Max and his teachings. He has a nice energy and the practices he teach will benefit people who would like to gently move to emptiness meditation in a natural way.
Max

 

Smile, do you consider that to be the extent of his skill that you are aware of.. or that beginners could at least be aware of... at your current estimation?

BTW Mantra, and Dakini... we will all, I'm sure, draw our own conclusions, none of us are going to swallow wholesale any one persn's point of view and adopt it as our own.

Edited August 30, 2013 by cat

[Cameron]

Very interesting quesiton Cat.

 

As you know I was originally planning on doing a 3 day workshop with Ken which I cancelled. Too much coming up from study with Max.

 

I talked to Ken about what was going on.

 

Here is my sense about it. I don't think Ken is on the same level of development as Max however he takes the presentation of his teaching in a much more serious way.

 

Essentially..Ken is interested in his students opening up rather gradually. For example he has a 3 year training program..which I was even considering doing. He takes you in slowly. Like a big, comfortable 747 with plenty of space or something.

 

Max takes you there in a weekend. Max is like the Stealth Bomber of Tao.

 

So..for me..I don't say who is or who isn't the Master. I say..do you want to ride in a 747 that will take you to your destination in 3, 4 years or longer in a comfortable way?

 

Or do you want to take the fast track..which can be a little scary..and get there quick?

Edited October 15, 2007 by Cameron

[三江源]

.

Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[affenbrot]

[Cameron]

Yeah it's all good .I love Ken. He told me on the phone will probably see you later down the path and I am guessing that is going to be the case.

 

But..yeah..as Chris said Kunlun is so powerful. Just going to give myself this eyar to jsut do Kunlun and some martial arts.

 

I basically would stop talking about this stuff completly now but I feel like I have some little insight into the matter. Like you mention Ken and I just spoke to him on the phone a couple days ago about Kunlun!

 

So it's like..yeah..I have something to say there.

 

But yeah comparing one teacher to another or who is the real amster is such a waste of time. Go with your intuition. I am actually done comparing teachers forever now. Such an endless load of bullshit and the main hobby of online Taoists.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Cameron

[三江源]

.

Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[Cameron]

Valid points.

 

However..trashing Max is rather disrespectful I think. Hundun knows quite a few of us are gettign quite real results with Max.

 

He could say "Isn't for me..and the presentation could be better".

 

Instead he goes on long diatribes trashing Max. I mean..I had my issues to. I don't think Red Phoenix should be taught at Level 1. Hell, even Smile agrees with me who told me about Max to begin with.

 

But..the endless trashing is a bit much. Todd also. I don't really know Todd. We hung out one weekend last year but we arent that tight so can't really vibe out what he is saying.

 

Seems like he was let down or somehting..not sure I get where he is coming from.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Cameron

[lockpaw]

Here seems to be the story so far: Max says some crazy things (reptilian races, immortality) but people are having actual reactions to him. However, whenever some one says something bad about Max, there are ad hominem attacks on the person. Would a Bodhisattva's students react to criticisms of their teacher this way?

 

I have seen a lot of talk about energy, but little to no talk about developing compassion, virtue, or spiritual wisdom (same goes for the movie and the website). It all seems to be about power and impressing people with how much power some one has. And if some one disagrees, it is not handled with skillful means, but like a bunch of schoolyard bullies. That's what ego does: it lashes out if something disagrees or challenges it.

Just because some one has power doesn't mean either 1) they are truthful or 2) sane. Max may be a miracle worker, but that says nothing about presenting a valid spiritual path.

 

Mantra and Cameron, if Max is the real deal, who cares if people criticize him? The word will get out. You're reaction to criticism makes me, a neutral observer, think you have something to hide.

 

 

But yeah comparing one teacher to another or who is the real amster is such a waste of time. Go with your intuition. I am actually done comparing teachers forever now. Such an endless load of bullshit and the main hobby of online Taoists.

 

Huh? This is the point of being online: to get all views. No one has time/money/resources to see all the teachers out there. We need to weed out the crooks and the crazies and find the gold. You only do that by sharing information, bro.

 

I would like some one to explain about these reptilian races!

 

[Cameron]

Get off the fear trip people.

 

Hinti: Take a look at Ancient Egypt..see how they sort of had realtionships with different animals in stuff who were sort of like humanoids?

 

Ok? So jsut chill. It's big fucking Universe get over your puny little selves.

 

Ok thanks.

[affenbrot]

[Mantra68]

Here seems to be the story so far: Max says some crazy things (reptilian races, immortality) but people are having actual reactions to him. However, whenever some one says something bad about Max, there are ad hominem attacks on the person. Would a Bodhisattva's students react to criticisms of their teacher this way?

 

I have seen a lot of talk about energy, but little to no talk about developing compassion, virtue, or spiritual wisdom (same goes for the movie and the website). It all seems to be about power and impressing people with how much power some one has. And if some one disagrees, it is not handled with skillful means, but like a bunch of schoolyard bullies. That's what ego does: it lashes out if something disagrees or challenges it.

Just because some one has power doesn't mean either 1) they are truthful or 2) sane. Max may be a miracle worker, but that says nothing about presenting a valid spiritual path.

 

Mantra and Cameron, if Max is the real deal, who cares if people criticize him? The word will get out. You're reaction to criticism makes me, a neutral observer, think you have something to hide.

Huh? This is the point of being online: to get all views. No one has time/money/resources to see all the teachers out there. We need to weed out the crooks and the crazies and find the gold. You only do that by sharing information, bro.

 

I would like some one to explain about these reptilian races!

 

Compassion is the real point to all of this. While Kunlun is powerfully effective, "power" is not the goal. Opening up to a greater understanding of reality is. Because once you work through all of your own stuff you will be at a place of compassion and void.

 

That you may have to go through chaos in the process is dramatic and intense.

 

I realize that this information brings up many questions and reveals many perspectives, so it is vital that someone who is involved puts energy into trying to explain what it is all about.

 

As to the reptilian stuff, what people are experiencing is only what is already there. Google "nagas" and you will find info on these beings. At the deepest levels of all mystery schools on earth, these are some of the teachers that come when you are ready.

 

Actually, many forms of beings come to you when you start to open up. Some are very human some are quite different. This is very shocking to some people, but it is what is, so there it is.

 

People from all over the world experience these things and they always have.

 

Exploring the Tao gets weird. The truth is much different than people have been led to believe.

 

For me the most important aspect of all of this is what it can do in terms of healing others. Other things are less worthy of focus.

 

My motivation in responding to people is to try to bring clarity to something that I feel is very important and something that most everyone here are trying to understand. I have maintained this approach from the beginning.

 

As to the speed of opening: you can go as slow as you want with Kunlun or as fast as you want. It is up to you to decide how much you are willing to let the mind go.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Mantra68

[gendao]

Here seems to be the story so far: Max says some crazy things (reptilian races, immortality) but people are having actual reactions to him. However, whenever some one says something bad about Max, there are ad hominem attacks on the person. Would a Bodhisattva's students react to criticisms of their teacher this way?

Actually, I've heard about Reptilians from a large variety of sources now...from friends, to UFO nuts, to New Age spiritualists, to Native American shamans (like Red Elk), to exopo1itic "conspiracy" buffs, etc. And even some people in HT had an encounter with one.

 

Anyhow, I personally appreciate all honest feedback. Of course, it is then up to each individual to judge what they want to believe. And since we're all adults here, I believe most of us possess some critical thinking to do that.

 

I also think mixed reactions and heated debates are simply to be expected here. And is not necessarily a bad thing. We went through the exact same thing with Lei Shan Dao, as well:

A little on David and course costs

Who would you like to see go for Lei Shan Dao training in China?

If you read back through those threads, it's like the exact same plot and drama, just different characters...

Edited October 15, 2007 by vortex

[Spectrum]

I wish I could get $450/each for teaching a Taijiquan or Chi Gung seminar. I have only accepted donations the last 3 years (shrug)

 

Since this appears to be a Taoist themed event.... Was Wuji, "Sung" or the principles of Taiji or Chi Gung discussed/practiced? Were the ideas of "observation" and "listening" presented or discussed?

 

Spectrum

[Sahaj Nath]

This is inaccurate. I was there. The parts you failed to include are the parts you failed to hear.

What I told you was that chi is electric and the magnetic energy is harder to explain. It is harder to explain because it is an extension of divine will; your own. When that didn't really register with you I said "ok maybe Max can explain it better to you, so I pulled him from another conversation and he basically told you the same thing.

 

You claimed to understand, but apparently you didn't.

As to Cameron, Max knew exactly what he was going through. He prescribed a remedy.

Hundun, the arrogance in this paragraph perfectly supports my impression of you. The spirit you approach these things with is just a bit skewed, friend.

 

This is: "He failed to see my brilliance, so he must be an incompetent fool."

Nope. You are getting a full refund. We don't want your money if you are that unhappy with things. This not about money for us.

 

We have to cover our costs so money is in the equation and we need to charge something so that we can continue to try to reach the people who resonate with this practice. So, we have had to become somewhat organized to handle the amount of people we get. So what if we're not experts at it. We are doing our best.

 

 

okay, i just woke up.

 

 

i'm probably not going to respond to everything that's been said in one shot, so i'll just respond to what's striking me at this time.

 

 

first, i want to apologize. there IS a sort of aggressive negativity in my criticism. if i had waited a day to respond i'm sure i wouldn't have come across that way. i meant to be every bit as critical as i was, but i honestly didn't mean to be so disrespectful about it. so on that point, cam, mantra, dakini, i think you're right.

 

 

mantra, i think it's fairly obvious from how i presented it that i actually *recorded the lecture.* you can question my egotism and all of that, but you can't really challenge the accuracy of what said. what i said is true. you know it's true. you recorded the lecture yourself. you had to have gone back and watched it by now.

 

i don't have any plans of making the recording public. that's not what i recorded it. i recorded it simply because i didn't want to lose or forget even one insight that he was going to share. so even though you and i are not exactly friends at this point, as a show of good faith i won't share the recording with anyone unless you say it's alright to do so.

 

 

the little talk i had with you and max after the lecture was NOT recorded, however, so i can't prove that you're not being straight about that part. but i stand by what i said took place. i only wish i hadn't taken the cheap shot with the "taoist master my ass" comment.

 

but really, that's how i felt. i felt duped. not at the time, but upon reflection. at the time i really was in "feeling" mode and willingly gave myself to the whole thing as much as i could. most of my criticism didn't start bubbling up until i was driving home. and moreso as i listened in the car to what i had recorded.

 

you are thoroughly invested in this venture, mantra. you are the one who is making the movie. you are the one who wrote the book. i can neither expect nor trust that you will come clean about everything.

 

and i know how my PM sounded to you. but i stand by it. you're welcome to make it public if you think it proves your point. i only sent it privately cause you were responding to so much criticism at the time (and gracefully, for which i commended you in person) that i didn't want to add another layer for others to see.

 

BUT,

 

it was you who said in another thread that max will look into your energy in a private session and be able to tell you your lineage. i wasn't looking for my greatness to be recognized, man. i was just looking for the truth of that claim. and i said in my PM to you that i wasn't really even interested in the kunlun workshop, but i WAS interested in meeting with him privately. i wanted his counsel. i wanted his wisdom. i wanted to have the guidance of a true master, which you claimed him to be.

 

it's not accurate to say that i got NO response from the kunlun practice. i'll have to explain that one when i'm feeling a little more up to it. i never said that the practice was bogus. in fact, i said it was effective. but moreso than anything else out there? no. it's not. you don't know enough about my journey, but now i feel like telling more of my stuff is just going to come across like more egotism. what i CAN say is that it's hard to qualify a practice as 'the best there is' when at the same time 'it's not for everybody.'

 

on the reptilian races thing:

 

as i said, i am crazy enough to buy into it. (again, you don't know where i've been.) it was how he presented it that destroyed all credibility of what he was saying. nourishing food being served in a garbage can isn't very appealing, even when you're hungry. by not presenting the information in a credible manner, he presented himself like a thousand other new-age quacks out there. perhaps if i were lost in bliss at the time, i wouldn't have been so critical about it. but i can't help but feel like maybe that's partly how the bliss practice was being used: to make people more impressionable.

 

maybe that begs the question: what would have been credible? hmm... more depth, i think. he simply named over a half-dozen orders and clans and tribes that agree with this, but he said nothing about the relationships, the significance, the history, or anything else. he just said that when your wisdom eye starts openning, you'll start to see this stuff. there's this part in the brain that's reptilian. there are other races in the galaxy. there are snake and dragon clans... blah, blah, blah. he said nothing of substance. nothing. he could have broken down how the snake clan(s) was derived from or connected to these races. he could broken down some of the masonic symbolism and how it shed light on this stuff (my grandfather was a master mason), he could have done a lot more than just spit it out with no warrants or analysis. i'm open-minded. more than you seem to believe. but there's a difference between open-mindedness and gullibility.

 

 

i wasn't there to get blissed out. i was there to seek the guidance of a true master. someone who could look right into me and know where i've been, and know what i need to reach the highest levels. someone who could share wisdom or tools to help me with some of the issues that arise with my patients. someone who could make me a better servant to others.

 

i didn't find that.

 

 

i wasn't going to ask for a refund, but i appreciate that you're willing to give it to me.

 

i will do my best to not be so attacking in the way i communicate in the rest of this. it doesn't serve anyone.

[Sahaj Nath]

oh, and just for a little more clarification:

 

in talking about qi versus magnetism, saying that magnetism is more connected to divine will is kind of non-responsive to me. that doesn't make it non-qi. all of my experiences with spirits as well as divine pan-consciousness (the only words i can think of to describe it) has been when immersed in the YIN field. so why would a taoist adept make a distinction by saying this indescribably magnetic presence isn't qi? electricity isn't the only expression of qi, and no taoist has would claim that. but he does. i wasn't looking to level a challenge at him. i genuinely wanted to know what this completely new level of magnetic presence was.

 

mantra, your response was better than his was. i did get it. but that answer didn't make it non-yin.

 

dubious distinctions like that are gonna be questioned by a lot of people as your workshops gain momentum.

[steve]

okay,

 

i may as well get this over with...

i'm not writing this to make friends, so you're welcome to take issue with this if you like.

1.) he's NOT a lama

 

2.) he's NOT a taoist master

 

3.) he's not really a master at all!

 

4.) if he IS a master of something (anything), then i can only conclude that i surpassed the level of master a long time ago, and i really need to raise my prices!

i was actually shocked at how rank and superficial his knowledge base was. he will attract a number of new age people, as he IS one. HUGE leaps to our ancestries being from other planets and shit. reptilian races and shit. and, to be honest, i'm just crazy enough to go there if you can lay an effective groundwork. he offered none. only that we were a tight-knit group now that the "undesirables" had been weeded out the night before (someone leveled a challenge at him, and he blew much of his own credibility trying to respond/back-peddle), so he can now clue us in to his "crazy wisdom."

 

yeah, he really went there.

the short video clip on the front page of his website is about the extent of his depth.

 

......................edited for brevity ..........................................

 

anyway, that's my honest opinion.

Hundun,

I appreciate the honesty and candor of your post. I don't know you but you don't come across as someone with an axe to grind or of a vindictive nature. I didn't get the feeling that you were getting pleasure out of your criticism. Your experience is not surprising nor is the reaction of Max's supporters. Enlightenment is big business and gurus are a dime a dozen. Some are in it for the money, some for the gratification of helping others, self agrandissment, political stature, or all of the above. Either way it is a form of self-gratification and continues to reinforce their "I", their image of who they think they are or should be, based on their programming. The ones who are truly there are just there - no teaching, no selling, no seminars, no secrets, no methods or techniques, no transmissions. For them it is all the same and none of the snake oil has any meaning. The tricky and beautiful thing about enlightenment is that you can't buy or receive it, it's already there. It's just buried under the social/cultural programming. If Max was all he claims to be, he would know that, and wouldn't need to make movies of himself in archaic Chinese costume demonstrating superhuman powers.

Edited October 15, 2007 by xuesheng

[Sahaj Nath]

Hundun,

I appreciate the honesty and candor of your post. I don't know you but you don't come across as someone with an axe to grind or of a vindictive nature. I didn't get the feeling that you were getting pleasure out of your criticism. Your experience is not surprising nor is the reaction of Max's supporters. Enlightenment is big business and gurus are a dime a dozen. Some are in it for the money, some for the gratification of helping others, self agrandissment, political stature, or all of the above. Either way it is a form of self-gratification and continues to reinforce their "I", their image of who they think they are or should be, based on their programming. The ones who are truly there are just there - no teaching, no selling, no seminars, no secrets, no methods or techniques, no transmissions. For them it is all the same and none of the snake oil has any meaning. The tricky and beautiful thing about enlightenment is that you can't buy or receive it, it's already there. It's just buried under the social/cultural programming. If Max was all he claims to be, he would know that, and wouldn't need to make movies of himself in archaic Chinese costume demonstrating superhuman powers.

 

thank you for that.

 

truly.

[Todd]

But..the endless trashing is a bit much. Todd also. I don't really know Todd. We hung out one weekend last year but we arent that tight so can't really vibe out what he is saying.

 

Seems like he was let down or somehting..not sure I get where he is coming from.

 

 

I liked what you said earlier, about us all being drama queens. Thats a lot closer to the truth than most of what has been said here.

 

But let the drama ensue...

 

I just gave my honest response to the seminar, which you asked for, though I made my post before reading your request. My second post was just to clear up a point about what Max's claims are, and to give a taste for some of the things he says.

 

I did not say anything about the practice, other than that it might still offer me something. I have not been doing it long enough to say much about it, but just to give you a better idea of where I am coming from, I'll share my initial impressions.

 

I do not have difficulty opening to the Kunlun vibe. In a way it is very familiar to me. Some people speak of the ground shaking from doing Kunlun. I think of it as being more like being at sea. This is a feeling that started up for me from standing practice, a few years ago. The standing practice version was more subtle. Kunlun seems to uncouple that movement from the central channel. It takes the guide rails off. I get the whole snake/dragon thing, the lower dan tian being the top of the energetic body, etc... I can let the laughter out, sing, feel bliss, feel a cool feeling running through my body, feel like total shit, emotions coming up, past events, attachments, whatever. All that stuff and much more happened before I was introduced to Kunlun. It felt mostly natural, a very simple unfolding, with peaks and valleys, revealing something that has nothing to do with any particular peak or valley.

 

The practice definitely has an effect that I can feel, as do many practices. We will see if this effect is one that I want to introduce on a more regular basis. I want to find ground again (which is just a connection with everything that is, which is what I am, which is reality, etc...) before I explore with this more. Energy stuff happens with awakening, but awakening is NOT about energy stuff. One of the main reasons that I will not be going to more seminars, is that the energy stuff is being presented as the real deal, whereas in my perspective, its just more stuff. Its about experiences, and what we can GET. I like experience. I like stuff. But truth always comes before experience for me. Thats just my quirk, and its a quality I look for in spiritual teachers. I like for them to be able to point toward truth on a fairly consistent basis. I don't need anyone to point me toward more stuff. I'm a bit too thick headed in my desire for more stuff to have someone keep encouraging that desire within me.

 

I guess going to this seminar was about exploring my desire for more stuff. My response was, "Allright. I didn't like that. Time to get back to truth." Truth is more about an attitude, and does not preclude more stuff. I did not find that attitude at the seminar.

 

Other peoples' mileage may vary.

 

BTW My impression of the people running and helping out with the seminar was generally quite positive. They were nice people with good energy. They seemed to want to help, and Max seemed to really enjoy what he was doing, and sharing various things with people. This enjoyment does not equate with enlightenment or bringing students closer to truth in my opinion, however.

 

I wish everyone luck with whatever they feel drawn to.