Seeing, Recognising & Maintaining One's Enlightening Potential

[Cobie]

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Edited July 13, 2023 by Cobie

[C T]

[C T]

[silent thunder]

Tulku's and my experience differ where he claims "The bottom line is to try, as much as possible to retain the innate stability..."  perhaps it's a quality of translation or a partial contextual implication, but effort and 'trying' are anathema for the unfolding in nature in my process.  It unfolds of itself, all else rests within it.  It is not creatable, it is that which creation arises within...

 

The fundamental nature is so foundational that any act of 'trying' to manufacture it, or 'maintain it', is a layer obscuring it, in my experience.

 

There is no manufacturing.  There is releasing into one's nature, or there is obscuration.

[stirling]

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Tulku's and my experience differ where he claims "The bottom line is to try, as much as possible to retain the innate stability..."  perhaps it's a quality of translation or a partial contextual implication, but effort and 'trying' are anathema for the unfolding in nature in my process.  It unfolds of itself, all else rests within it.  It is not creatable, it is that which creation arises within...

 

The fundamental nature is so foundational that any act of 'trying' to manufacture it, or 'maintain it', is a layer obscuring it, in my experience.

 

There is no manufacturing.  There is releasing into one's nature, or there is obscuration.

 

I agree. Though I do think it is a translation issue, since he essentially contradicts the idea of trying where he says:

 

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Do not create or construct anything whatsoever; simply allow the moment of rigpa to reoccur repeatedly.

 

[C T]

@silent thunder

 

I think it simply means be mindful, note when distracted, and with little fuss, return to the place of effortless non-elaboration. 

 

It's just my take, assuming the words were said to a general audience. Rinpoche may have had other meanings tied to it. 

 

Appreciate the input 🙏

[manitou]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:24 AM, silent thunder said:

The fundamental nature is so foundational that any act of 'trying' to manufacture it, or 'maintain it', is a layer obscuring it, in my experience.

 

 

 

But I think there are methods of helping one's self stay in the rigpa.  I do 'try' to remember that we're all one body (physical and spiritual), even at the grocery store.  There is nothing someone can say or do that will offend you, at least sometimes it makes you smile.  The thought of one tentacle of the octopus fighting with another tentacle is ridiculous.  When this concept becomes habituated, it changes the appearance (and dynamics) of most of life.

 

And I do agree with Tulku's statement of 'when you train in this with utmost diligence...'  that the rigpa moments of awareness get closer and closer; sometimes it is even constant.  It's when we buy into the mental creation of 'society' and all the fears ahead - particularly in this crazy time ' - we lose the awareness and buy into the production.  We see fears and projections as real.

 

When I first got sober 41 years ago, a long-timer came up to me at my first AA meeting.  During coffee break, I was talking to a woman with long term sobriety, and I was freaked out about my upcoming pension hearing, and I bent her ear for a while about it.  She reached over and put her hand on my arm and said, "But Barbara, how are you right now??'  It's like I didn't hear the question at first, I continued whining and complaining.  She said it two more times.  "But Barbara, how are you right now?"

 

I finally heard the question, it made its way into my consciousness.  I was silent for a moment, and I felt this strange awareness travel from a very far distance away and somehow land right in my chest.  Once I saw what she was saying, I cracked up loudly.  Even in my first day of sobriety I was able to see the difference between worrying about something way out in the distance, and being here in the moment.  It was actually a physical sensation, and it felt great!  I felt slightly empowered, and walked away from the meeting feeling like I was exactly in the right place.

[steve]

Another consideration is the audience to whom Rinpoche is speaking. For many of us there is effort required to recognize our disconnection, to return to the presence and fullness of this moment, and to remain connected, living from that openness. The novice needs a reminder, support, and effort. @silent thunder describes a relatively mature and stable relationship with his essence, a rare and beautiful thing.

 

🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼

[C T]

[iinatti]

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Edited September 27, 2023 by iinatti

[steve]

I appreciate you sharing your ideas and experience.

 

1 hour ago, iinatti said:

Everything seen, experienced, felt, tasted, heard, smelt, or imagined provides us with a view into our own essence. From that perspective, there is great meaning in the experience of sitting by a lake as the embers fade to watch Orion's great shield descend into the void.  We are the cosmic underpinnings of that unfolding and by acting as its canvas, we become one with the magnificence of universe. 

 

 

The only thing I feel is slightly different for me is that we don't become one with the magnificence of universe, rather my experience is that we become aware of our magnificence as the universe, never having been separate from it for an instant, only unaware.

 

1 hour ago, iinatti said:

Not sure if this is 100% cogent, but when I let things appear to me this way, it feels easier to maintain equanimity ... and it puts a subtle smile on my face.   

Mine too.... 

_/\_

[manitou]

13 hours ago, iinatti said:

Therefore, the appearance is a reflection of the Watcher.   If an appearance is beautiful, that is a reflection of beauty inherent in the Watcher.  Conversely, ugliness is a reflection of ugliness in the Watcher.   In other words, the appearance is the Watcher; the Watcher is the appearance.  

 

 

 

You little quantum physicist, you!

 

I always go back to the intelligence of the forming embryo, how the cells line up according to an incredible blueprint, repeating over and over.  We are that intelligence, we are that god-being that has been put in charge of utilizing that intelligence.  And the only thing separating us is our individual conditionings.  We are the manifester, we are both the communicative, creative,  and aware aspects of life.

 

Your words are beautiful, iinatti!

[C T]

There has to be a wide variety in methods for traversing the path.

 

There is no single, definitive tradition in the buddhadharma, because there are all kinds of sentient beings who have their own interests and dispositions. For that reason, there has to be a wide variety in methods for traversing the path. Mind is not a definite, concrete thing. For that reason, the methods for relating to the mind also cannot be concrete and universal.

 

The main objective of the dharma is to tame our minds — to bring peace and happiness to our minds — but there needs to be a wide variety of methods available for different sentient beings.

 

For example, some beings might give rise to bodhichitta, the wish to attain enlightenment, through meditating on emptiness. The meditation on emptiness might be an avenue for them to connect with the altruistic heart of bodhichitta. On the other hand, other beings might not be able to connect with bodhichitta through contemplating emptiness. So there’s no universal rule, no definitive set of methods. Again, it leads back to the state of mind: since there’s no definitive, universal state of mind, there can never be any definitive, universal set of methods.

 

At the same time, there are traditions within Buddhism that are very beneficial and carry great blessings, because they are the traditions of highly accomplished spiritual beings. These blessings are special and should be seen as sacred and beneficial. That’s why we respect the teaching styles and methods of the great spiritual masters of the past. They don’t have to be regarded as concrete rules, but at the same time they do carry supreme blessings.

 

~ 17th Karmapa ~

[Michael Sternbach]

In other words, different strokes for different folks. 🙂

[Daniel]

On 7/24/2023 at 3:28 AM, iinatti said:

Everything seen, experienced, felt, tasted, heard, smelt, or imagined provides us with a view into our own essence.

 

... which confirms that everything that exists has an inner-essence which is concealed by the "reflective" surface observed by the senses?

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Daniel

[C T]

13 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

... which confirms that everything that exists has an inner-essence which is concealed by the "reflective" surface observed by the senses?

 

 

Concealed as in lying dormant as a vast potential field, or something fixed/predetermined, but hidden until such time when it's found? 

 

In some traditions, one works towards an end result or spiritual goal, but in Mahayana Buddhism, it is said that the work, comprising of ground, path and fruition, are intertwined and occurs simultaneously. 

 

For example, a practitioner who is able to maintain quiescent, wakeful, undistorted, undistracted presence for a particular length of time, post meditation, is a buddha for that same length of time. 

 

(Presence is synonymous with awareness in Mahayana Buddhism)

[Daniel]

14 hours ago, C T said:

 

Concealed as in lying dormant as a vast potential field, or something fixed/predetermined, but hidden until such time when it's found?

 

From my perspective it's the inner-essence which is fixed/predetermined and hidden until the vast potential field is realized as an illusion of subjectivity.  This subjectivity is what I meant by "the reflective surface observed by the senses."

 

There is an illusion of vast potential which is a consequence of the partnership of fixed-and-concealed always and forever.  The illusion is produced in the mind because of everything which the inner-essence "could-be", which is another way of saying, "all that it is not".  What it "could-be" and "all that it is not" are subjective.

 

Once it the inner-essence is revealed, the vast potential becomes actual, fixed in time and place, revealing the truth, the essence of each and everything is fixed and predetermined, objective.

 

Now considering the special case, the exception, if the inner-essence is **actually** "vast-potential", literally.  It is "fixed/predetermined" as vast-potential.

 

While the inner-essence, vast-potential, is partnered with concealment, there is only one thing it is not:  actual.  This produces the illusion that nothing is fixed/predetermined.

 

Once this specific/exceptional inner-essence is revealed, the vast-potential becomes actual, but in this case it is **actually** vast potential, which can never be fixed in time and place.  If it can never be fixed in time and place its potential becomes objectively NULL and insignificant.  The vast-potential is an illusion because it can never resolve into anything.  Never.

 

Finally, to be complete:  all the middle cases between the two extremes are considered.  What if the inner-essence is a combination of fixed/predetermined qualities and vast-potential which is being concealed?  Still nothing changes.  The fixed/predetermined qualities are being revealed as objective truth.  The vast-potential is revealed as objectively NULL and completely insignificant. 

 

In all cases the vast-potential field is an illusion.  It never renders anything actual which defeats itself.  By process of elimination, the inner-essence is something which is fixed/predetermined and hidden until such time when it is found ( assuming time exists ). 

 

Quote

In some traditions, one works towards an end result or spiritual goal, but in Mahayana Buddhism, it is said that the work, comprising of ground, path and fruition, are intertwined and occurs simultaneously. 

 

For example, a practitioner who is able to maintain quiescent, wakeful, undistorted, undistracted presence for a particular length of time, post meditation, is a buddha for that same length of time. 

 

(Presence is synonymous with awareness in Mahayana Buddhism)

 

OK.  Thank you.  This describes the time when it is revealed?

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Daniel

[C T]

[C T]

[C T]

[manitou]

On 7/26/2023 at 8:30 AM, Daniel said:

Once this specific/exceptional inner-essence is revealed, the vast-potential becomes actual, but in this case it is **actually** vast potential, which can never be fixed in time and place.  If it can never be fixed in time and place its potential becomes objectively NULL and insignificant.  The vast-potential is an illusion because it can never resolve into anything.  Never.

 

 

Except that it opens our minds if we're receptive.  Vast potential can direct one to have an idea and then to act on it.

But even to discuss this notion shows how we are creatures of habit, or at least I am.  I look at my routines is to realize how much I limit myself by daily repetitions. 

 

One reason it can't be fixed in time and place, is because it's all Now.

[stirling]

On 7/24/2023 at 3:28 AM, iinatti said:

Question: When I view or experience an appearance, what is the thing that is being reflected?  The answer: Me. 

 

The appearance is not a reflection of the thing itself.  The appearance is an apparition that appears only for the Watcher (no two views of a sunset are the same). Therefore, the appearance is a reflection of the Watcher.   If an appearance is beautiful, that is a reflection of beauty inherent in the Watcher.  Conversely, ugliness is a reflection of ugliness in the Watcher.   In other words, the appearance is the Watcher; the Watcher is the appearance.

 

Nicely worded post.  

 

Extra Credit Question: If the appearance and the Watcher are reflections of each other, is there truly anything different about them? 

[Daniel]

8 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

Except that it opens our minds if we're receptive.  Vast potential can direct one to have an idea and then to act on it.

But even to discuss this notion shows how we are creatures of habit, or at least I am.  I look at my routines is to realize how much I limit myself by daily repetitions. 

 

One reason it can't be fixed in time and place, is because it's all Now.

 

The topic was: does everything have an inner-essence which is concealed?  If so, what is concealing it?  Is the inner-essence concealed in a vast potential field or is it fixed and predetermined to be revealed at a certain future time?

 

The vast potential field is ruled out by process of elimination as the source of the concealment.

 

Is "vast potential" as a concept inspiring?  Sure, why not?  Is the idea of past,present,and future united inspiring?  Sure, why not?

 

Is it true?  Yes.  Is it useful?  Sometimes. 

[iinatti]

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Edited September 27, 2023 by iinatti

[Daniel]

14 hours ago, stirling said:

Extra Credit Question: If the appearance and the Watcher are reflections of each other, is there truly anything different about them? 

 

Not directed to me, but,

 

A reflection is both inverted and flat compared to the source of the reflection.  If they are reflections of each other, an illusion of infinity is produced.  Even so, the reflections are different, inverted and forever shrinking. 

 

It's like sitting in a house made of mirrors lacking any door.  The only escape from the illusion is closing one's eyes and imagining everything that the reflections are NOT.  The disillusioned result is finite.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Daniel