Anarchy - A Way of Living

[Stosh]

That's a nice balanced post 9th.

Zero , the path around it defines the mountain.

Goodnight.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Individual anarchy? I don't know what that would be..I'm operating under the assumption tht the anarchist defies the need for external authority control.

I read that the Stoic voluntarism was a situation where everyone was so enlightened to the needs of the group that they willingly set aside their own desires for the intellectually defined good.

We may all agree here, that the feasibility depends on two things , the attitudes and numbers of those involved. Which could be said for litterally any social situation or individual behavior.

To wear the do not tread on me shirt one has decided to internalize their defense force and the reins of leadership which is the job of the superego anyway...either way I see no direction pointed to which isn't already tested and has been found inferior to some level of externally mediated authority to promote the welfare of the group first, and the individual second by extension.

BTW I notice the burning men also have rules and I would bet that they would have some means of enforcement.

Yep. Only individual anarchy can work. Once it becomes a societal affair you once again have government.

 

My desires come first, sorry.

 

Yes, only those willing to afford all others the same freedoms they demand for themselves will be able to be true anarchists.

 

Yes, you could call the "do not tread on me" a defensive jesture. But then, a good defense will prevent most offenses.

[Marblehead]

was Aristotle an anarchist?

I think one could successfully make that arguement.

[Marblehead]

anything ring familiar?

Very much so to me. In fact, "Norton" just caught some site trying to download some spyware to my computer. I had it removed, of course.

[Marblehead]

Just a reminder to Y'all. When I speak of anarchy I speak of individual anarchy. I have absolutely no idea how societal anarchy could ever work successfully. (Therefore the individual will comply with the laws of the society but live in such a manner that the laws of others rarely enter into their life.)

[Stosh]

Ohhh , y'all are talking about being OBEDIENT , now I get it.

[Marblehead]

Sure, obedient is a fair word to use. The law states that I must pay property taxes on my property. I pay the taxes because any other alternative sucks. If I lived in a cave that no one could find I wouldn't have to worry about property taxes. But I prefer being where I am so I pay the taxes. Why do we need to pay taxes? So that governments can take possession of my property by force if I don't pay the taxes.

 

I don't drive through red traffic lights. I could get into an accident or have to pay a traffic fine.

 

Even an anarchist must be obedient. Again, I say, we must comply with the laws of the society we are living within. That is part of anarchy as well. Respect! Want more freedom? Move.

[Stosh]

Well that all I can see , I was thinking anarchy was denial of the legitimacy of authority and behavioral defiance of it.

Yeah , acknowlegement of the consequence of ones actions in the situation one finds oneself in ,, and making the best of it is really the wisest path. No one really wants their own freedoms limited but the idea is that one wants the behaviors of others limited to what they themselves find acceptable. Back in the days of Aristotle , the world was a much bigger place, there was more room for freedom (if you weren't literally a slave) .

He Plato and Socrates defied the mindset of the power brokers , so I would take it that they then were not anarchists , and the argument made to the contrary wouldnt hold much water.

[Marblehead]

No, an arguement wouldn't stand. But one could make the point that they were angry anarchists. Peaceful anarchists just want onters to leave them alone, angry anarchists want to change the system. I don't waste my time trying to change the system as I believe it would be pissing into the wind. But I do want others to leave me alone as long as I am complying with "their" laws.

I wish I could make more references to the ancient Greeks but it has been too long since I have read them my knowledge base is about minus 3.

 

I used to love Platos "Cave" but recently I have realized that it is far too mystical for me to hold it as having much truth.

 

But yeah, there are angry Anarchists just as there are angry Atheists. I'm not either of those.

[zerostao]

i am very obedient to my own liberty and freedom. and i do "denial of the legitimacy of authority and behavioral defiance of it"

 

 

“Our government teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.”

brandells

 

"Yes, anarchy is order, government is civil war"

bellagarrigue

[Marblehead]

Well, I would say that is called "taking a stand".

 

What bugs me the most is when governments make laws behind closed doors without input from "the people" effected by the laws and even more, when governments violate its own laws as if laws are made for the common people and don't apply to government or how government conducts its affairs.

 

Here if Florida we have what is called the "Sunshine Law" that states that all discussions by government be open to the public but they still find ways around that and over the past few years the Sunshine Law has basically become null and void.

 

In the middle quote, ",,, invites violent anarchy."

[Stosh]

^{Yeah that sunshine law is a good thing in some areas , but how would it apply to the govt spying on foriegn issues of concern? As in the recent news. There is need for privacy in govt affairs as well. the problem is where oversight is not present even retrospectively.}

^{Most people want to be led ! , it may sound off-beat but thats the case , ask if they want thier leaders to pander to their voters or whether they want thier leaders to "take a stand" , most often they say they want the dudes to stand by 'principles'.}

^{Which is retarded ! I want that politician I vote for kissing my ass, and the collective ass of all the voters who put him in power. NOT deciding things for himself AND everyone else.}

^{They also want their leaders to have money and elite education. Some poor schmo that didnt go to harvard , doesnt have his hair coiffed and perfumed and isnt a slick BS artist who panders behind closed doors to Top party politicians or his own egotistical whims ..Has a slim to zero chance of getting into power .}

^{So what you end up with rather often, is sleezebags , liars , elitists , womanizers etc . The fault is that of the voters, if they want to imagine that this is a representative democracy, representative of them, because they only react to hot button issues , dont really care about folks outside thier limited group, and arent willing to hold their 'own guys' feet to the fire and have more concern about the latest tune on the radio than the wars we are involved in. That all being said ,,,since I dont think I can make a significant change to all that , the reasonable thing to do is tolerate the onerous parts ( which can affect us all). Move on , make the best of things as they are in my little sphere.}

^{But thing I consider important to recognize is that govt of some type is inevitable , because people are not all the same like ants, they have personal interests unlike ants,}

^{The social struggle I consider eternal , is between the needs and desires of individuals , and the needs and desires of the collective sum of individuals (of which, Govt is only one arm).}

[Brian]

The real struggle, as I see it, is to cultivate in individuals the understanding that the needs & desires of the individual are in harmony with the needs & desires of the collective. Viewing them as in conflict is a dualistic false dichotomy.

 

This cultivation is done on the individual level and can only be done BY the individual, not TO the individual. The best way to encourage this cultivation is through self-cultivation and then letting one's little light shine.

 

To paraphrase Arlo Guthrie, if just one person does it, they may think he's really sick, and if three people do it, they may think it's an organization, and if fifty people do it, they may think it's a movement...

 

 

EDIT: By the way, several folks I know are now practicing qigong because they noticed and inquired.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Brian

[Marblehead]

Well Stosh, I didn't see anything I needed to argue with you about and you expressed yourself quite well so I don't even need to build on what you said.

 

BTW I have never been a herd animal. Never! Not even when I was in the Army.

[Stosh]

_{A simplistic example, , Tony wants pepperoni and Sam and Samantha want ham with the baloney.}

_{How does that lunch order become unanimous?}

[Stosh]

Well Stosh, I didn't see anything I needed to argue with you about and you expressed yourself quite well so I don't even need to build on what you said.

 

BTW I have never been a herd animal. Never! Not even when I was in the Army.

That I believe

[Marblehead]

That I believe

Now that statement will be even harder to build on. I'll work on a reply and get back (maybe).

[Stosh]

Now that statement will be even harder to build on. I'll work on a reply and get back (maybe).

Hmmmm I wonder what that will bring....Hmmmmm

[Marblehead]

Well, I do have something to say.

 

And this regards the comment I made above about property taxes. Guess what came in the mail today. Yep. My property tax bill. I don't feel too bad about it though. I get our low income senior's discount. That's exemption of some things and partial exemption on others. One of the benefits of being old and poor.

[Stosh]

Tis an ill wind indeed that blows no one! any good.

Here's my small blessing of the day,

I cooked a pork roast which turned out juicy and tender

for two fifty a pound that's a good deal !

Anarchy breaking out all over.

[Marblehead]

I went shopping at Home Depot this afternoon and met an old retired Navy man. He bitched more about our government than I do. Can you imagine that?!?

 

Yes, we should do our own thing. We don't have to have hambergers every night.

[Rara]

^{Most people want to be led !}

 

Yes! And therefore, I happily let them and watch them carry on in what I see as a slave life (you already know my thoughts on Confucious, Stosh, so I'll leave it there)

 

Fact of the matter is, I can usually go about my day without really acknowledging statutory law. Why? Because I just get up, do my thing...feed, do an honest job as best I can and make people laugh. That's how I believe life to be.

 

Now, many times I have been accused of "doing something illegal" and to that, I just don't care. The system is put in place by a bunch of people who fight for power...it's completely make believe. So therefore, I have equal authority anyway...just most people don't believe this to be true because they were taught the opposite from a young age.

 

When I awake, I live life, disturb no one, then rest my head. To some people I could still be perceived as an anarchist but to me, I'm just doing what I do!

[Stosh]

Fine but in this case , I am referring to being led as in having other people making the laws or telling folks what is good or bad, or what the meaning of things are. CD reads those dusty tomes himself , and I am happy to have someone else do that. To a degree, it is still being led. Folks balk at the idea, but, because they don't actually want the burdens of leadership and the lack of heterogenaity one sees is a direct result of some folks leaving the investigation to someone else.

Roman catholics have priests to tell them what their bible means, protestants were going to do that for themselves but ended up with ministers. For books there are critics and at home depot there are dipsticks in the garden department. Is this a fashionable dress, is that a nice colored car.

Yes people see it that they are trying to do their own thing, but when you do something that there is a standard set by others for , to a degree you are being led, even if it is so tame as obeying a traffic law you did not vote for.

 

[zerostao]

excellent stosh, and it is the fact that we opened the door to artificial 'authority' to begin with that has the general society in such a shape. folks that need a law and a no littering sign and the threat of a fine to prevent them from throwing trash out their car window probably do need laws. if the only thing preventing some from robbing their neighbors is some laws against larceny, again these type of folks are something to consider. i consider them to be a product of our system. set up a system were everyone gets a free pass from self relaince, self responsibility, self accountability, self health, self defence, and this is what we end up with.

set up a system that takes the authority away from the individual and place that authority in the hands of a beaurocratic state,,,,,and dont we end up with the majority dependent on the state even for their own basic sustenence. how many people in our society actually produce anything? i am not going to count the folks who shuffle paperwork around for whatever buearacracy.

it is the state that intentionally dis-empowers people and some folks go along with that and some do not. those that do not are the anarchists who choose to remain empowered of their own talents and merits. and creatively, it is challenging to navigate around all the non-anarchists.

[Rara]

Yup. When I make/market a piece of music, I have to "worry" about the media liking it enough to review it. The same dipsticks that in my opinion, know little about music...just trends.