Selflessness and Competition

[Tao Parrot]

I was looking for a new apartment recently and I saw another person with an appointment to see the same place. I realized I was engaged in a competition for this apartment, and I wondered how this fits in with the concept of selflessness. Is the proper thing to do to take a horrible apartment that no one else wants? Obviously this can apply to all sorts of other things one applies for: jobs, education, and so forth. I'm interested in any thoughts anyone may have on this.

[voice]

Welcome!

 

You probably have many positive attributes (e.g. bright feathers, nice song), and don't just take up space. And, the apartment has some energy/consciousness as do its neighbors. So, if you are of value to that apartment/area, you might be "chosen" by it as its occupant. Thus, you don't have to fight, but go with the larger flow.

[Yen Hui]

I was looking for a new apartment recently and I saw another person with an appointment to see the same

place. I realized I was engaged in a competition for this apartment, and I wondered how this fits in with the

concept of selflessness. Is the proper thing to do to take a horrible apartment that no one else wants?

Obviously this can apply to all sorts of other things one applies for: jobs, education, and so forth.

 

Hi there TP ~ Well, while I see what you're getting at, I'm not altogether sure why you immediately perceived

this as a competition. It is commendable that you are thinking about the other persons needs as well, but you

must learn to trust fate and follow its intimations. This also requires self-denial, or being "selfless". It is a good

thing to examine your motives for seeking this new apartment, but avoid excessive penetration, as that is able

or likely to cripple your power of decision, and your ability to act in harmony with the clear intimations of fate.

 

However, having said that, there is no denying that a lot of things factor into making the correct decision; but

even still, you can plan and factor all you want and still end up deviating from the correct path, unless you also

learn to cultivate the Way and become receptive to the intimations of fate. Have you consulted the oracle yet?

[mYTHmAKER]

Being selfless does not mean being a wimp.

Wanting an apartment is not the same as being competitive to be better than someone or winning a game.

That's making it personal and ego inflating.

To want an apartment which someone else wants is fine IMHO.

You apply for the apartment but just because someone else applies does not mean you are in competition.

Only if your mind sees it as a competition is it a competition.

If you apply for a job there are always other people applying for the same job. Will you become a bum?

To be selfless is to take other peoples needs into consideration and give to those in need.

If you have more than others you can give something but keep something for yourself.

If the other person said look I really need this apartment. I have no where else to live and my sick mother lives next door. You might say well I don't need it as much as he does and withdraw.

[Tao Parrot]

Let me clarify. By "competition" I meant competing for a scarce resource, in this case the apartment, not any kind of "I'm better than you" sort of competition. It's true that I need an apartment, but I imagine the other person does also. Let's assume for the sake of argument that he does, although it does bring up an interesting second question on acting (non-acting?) with incomplete knowledge.

 

From the point of view of the other person, I am after the same resource he is. Should I be selfless and let him have it by not competing?

 

On the other hand, from the point of view of the landlord, I am offering her a choice of tenants.

 

This is starting to sound like the two sides that are created by taking action. What is non-action when you need an apartment?

 

 

p.s. Thanks for everyone's replies so far, they've been thought-provoking!

[Lozen]

I like to think of the ideal solution as working with other people to create new resources, as opposed to competing over resources. I also think you get what you need and that there are plenty of apartments to go around.

[Tao Parrot]

Have you consulted the oracle yet?

 

Do you mean the I Ching? I haven't really looked into that much. My understanding is that it's essentially a method for thinking about a problem by selecting a random point-of-view. No?

[Wayfarer64]

Do you mean the I Ching? I haven't really looked into that much. My understanding is that it's essentially a method for thinking about a problem by selecting a random point-of-view. No?

 

Hi there Tao Parrot, & welcome-

 

For me, The YiJing is a portal to connectivity, synchronocity as Jung wrote... It isn't so random as linking to aspects that may not enter yr consciousness without a nudge.-

 

I do however like yr take on it and think it may be of some real value. To get outside of yrself to take a look isn't a bad way to expalin the process...But seems to me that it is even more about finding the links you have to the wider world and yr place in it.

 

The selfishness issue can't take precidence over yr need for food, shelter, clothing. I have undermined my own comforts at times to do good works and "the right thing" but then found my energies sapped for other efforts - and that those I had helped were not as wonderful as I could have hoped. So I guess the thing to do is indeed look for the place that you feel at home and picture yr self there. If its the right thing it will probably happen.

 

I usually plug my book here , the yellow & red banner for the Sonnets is flying...

See ya 'round cyber-space...Pat

Edited May 14, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[Ian]

I also think you get what you need and that there are plenty of apartments to go around.

 

Dude, you tried getting one in East Oxford lately? Sheeesh!

[fatherpaul]

I was looking for a new apartment recently and I saw another person with an appointment to see the same place. I realized I was engaged in a competition for this apartment, and I wondered how this fits in with the concept of selflessness. Is the proper thing to do to take a horrible apartment that no one else wants? Obviously this can apply to all sorts of other things one applies for: jobs, education, and so forth. I'm interested in any thoughts anyone may have on this.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

who looks for a bed?

[Lozen]

Dude, you tried getting one in East Oxford lately? Sheeesh!

 

I did, but instead we found a two-bedroom flat in Summertown that was actually affordable. It even had a couch in the living room. 3-5 of us lived in it at any given time. And they actually let us out of our lease early, too.

 

Scarcity is a mentality!

[Tao Parrot]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

who looks for a bed?

 

A tired person, in my experience. Is that what you're suggesting I think about?

[freeform]

I've been experimenting with a radical view on making decisions like this...

 

It all comes from the core principle of living through intuition - not using your mind - because using your mind as the centre point for the decision making makes you feel like you have some control over what happens - and I know people would argu that you do have some control... Without getting too deep into it, consider that any control you have is illusionary - it's based around a very narrow view that your already warped and illusionistic mind provides...

 

So intuition is completely giving up control to your core self, which is best expressed by the three dan tien in balance... Giving up control means firstly letting go of any expectation with either of your decisions - so whether you get the flat or you dont get the flat - you feel the same way - you stop any mind-story about either of the outcomes...

 

Then you drop down into you dan tiens, with your mind silent and then be aware of what decision you end up taking! There is a deep part of us that 'knows' what the best decision is - but we've habitually drowned it out with our mind (which makes it seem like it's in control) - so we have to quiten and let our deepest body intelligence lead the way...

 

sometimes the decision you watch yourself take can seem ridiculous, and logically insane - and here is the opportunity to let your mind gently learn that it's rarely in control, and that a deeper part of you has all you need and will lead you in the perfect way to the perfect lessons you need to learn to grow and to wake up. Some times these lessons are blissfull and sometimes painfull - but they're always the right ones because they come from your core...

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[Lozen]

You know, I kind of see situations like this as presenting a physical appearance that is compatible with the internal. For example, when I dressed up for court. *I* knew I was innocent, but I also knew I wouldn't *look* innocent unless I dressed a certain way. And you do have some control over how you present yourself. Not in getting the apartment, but in creating fertile ground for opportunities to grow. Even when I was homeless I always had a place to stay... because I had faith. I dunno, hard to explain... I just think having the right mindset etc. will enable things to unfold in their own time without some kind of "competition" thing.

[Yen Hui]

Do you mean the I Ching? I haven't really looked into that much. My understanding is that it's essentially a

method for thinking about a problem by selecting a random point-of-view. No?

 

Not exactly. But to really understand why not, that would require a fairly close study of Book 2 of Wilhelm's

version of The I Ching. However, since it contains some fairly heavy material, it can be a little forboding and

tough to work through, the first time around. In lieu of that, I suggest reading the extensive excerpts from it

in Post #32 of the relatively current Dowsing Thread. Some rudimentary knowledge of Rupert Sheldrake's

theory of morphic fields and Jung's theories of synchronicity and universal archetypes would also help you

to more easily assimilate that material.

 

At the risk of oversimplification, though, the Oracle is a divine method of tapping into cosmic consciousness

and universal wisdom. If you believe The Treatise, it was a gift from the ancient sages to those persons who

sincerely seek to cultivate the Way, but have no human access to completely realized teachers. If you're the

right person, that is, if you fulfill all the right conditions, you'll receive intelligible responses, from the Oracle.

The following links also provide the beginning I Ching diviner with everything s/he needs to learn the art:-

 

01 - An Introduction to the Yijing Dao

02 - Me, Myself, and I Ching

 

Also, pay close attention to the information about the art of dowsing, which is the perfect compliment, imho,

to I Ching divination. With regard to the way in which you frame and present your question(s) to the Oracle,

though, keep this tip in mind:-

 

"The most important words in using the I Ching are Good/Not Good. Whatever the question - Should I take a

trip? Should I see this person? Good, not good? Not: What's going to happen, or what kind of year am I going

to have? You must at least take the effort to form the question: Is it good or not good that I take this action?"

( Professor Cheng Man-ch'ing, in There Are No Secrets, pp. 78-79 )

Edited May 15, 2007 by Yen Hui

[Spectrum]

Sometimes when your paddling for a wave you realize someone else is positioned better to catch it. Depending on the water, conditions, and your attachment to that wave, things get better or worse from that point on. One thing though; there will be more waves. I promise.

 

Spectrum

[Tao Parrot]

I've been experimenting with a radical view on making decisions like this...

 

So intuition is completely giving up control to your core self, which is best expressed by the three dan tien in balance... Giving up control means firstly letting go of any expectation with either of your decisions - so whether you get the flat or you dont get the flat - you feel the same way - you stop any mind-story about either of the outcomes...

 

Excellent advice! I will attempt to apply it.

[fatherpaul]

I've been experimenting with a radical view on making decisions like this...

 

It all comes from the core principle of living through intuition - not using your mind - because using your mind as the centre point for the decision making makes you feel like you have some control over what happens - and I know people would argu that you do have some control... Without getting too deep into it, consider that any control you have is illusionary - it's based around a very narrow view that your already warped and illusionistic mind provides...

 

So intuition is completely giving up control to your core self, which is best expressed by the three dan tien in balance... Giving up control means firstly letting go of any expectation with either of your decisions - so whether you get the flat or you dont get the flat - you feel the same way - you stop any mind-story about either of the outcomes...

 

Then you drop down into you dan tiens, with your mind silent and then be aware of what decision you end up taking! There is a deep part of us that 'knows' what the best decision is - but we've habitually drowned it out with our mind (which makes it seem like it's in control) - so we have to quiten and let our deepest body intelligence lead the way...

 

sometimes the decision you watch yourself take can seem ridiculous, and logically insane - and here is the opportunity to let your mind gently learn that it's rarely in control, and that a deeper part of you has all you need and will lead you in the perfect way to the perfect lessons you need to learn to grow and to wake up. Some times these lessons are blissfull and sometimes painfull - but they're always the right ones because they come from your core...

yes

[Yen Hui]

Some rudimentary knowledge of Rupert Sheldrake's theory of morphic fields and Jung's theories of

synchronicity and universal archetypes would also help you to more easily assimilate that material.

 

Here are the links to six free online articles by Fred Alan Wolf, author of the following works of excellence:-

 

01 - The Spiritual Universe: One Physicist's Vision of Spirit, Soul, Matter, and Self

 

02 - Mind into Matter: A New Alchemy of Science and Spirit, and its sequel ...

 

03 - Matter Into Feeling: A New Alchemy of Science and Spirit

 

These FAW articles (below) shed a brilliant light, imho, on the I Ching teachings, and especially those which

are presented in Book 2 of Wilhelm's version. They will explain fully what I meant by the words "not exactly",

in reply to your question regarding the apparent "random" production of a hexagram, when consulting the

Oracle. Enjoy and feel free to post questions for discussion:-

 

04 - The Soul and Quantum Physics

 

05 - The Quantum Physics of Consciousness: Towards a New Psychology

 

06 - Awakening Your Soul: Becoming Aware That You Are a Spiritual Universe

 

07 - The Quantum Mechanics of Dreams and the Emergence of Self-Awareness

 

08 - The Quantum Physical Communication Between the Self and the Soul

 

09 - The Timing of Conscious Experience

Edited May 21, 2007 by Yen Hui

[Yen Hui]

Fred Alan Wolf, author of ... The Spiritual Universe: One Physicist's Vision of Spirit, Soul, Matter, and Self

 

Wolf's treatise on The Spiritual Universe is an eloquent treatment of the nature of "self" and gets to the very heart

of your original question. Link #10 (below) takes you to an online audio of Wolf, in which he is being interviewed

about this particular book, on The Spiritual Universe, and will give you some insight into what the book's all about.

 

10 - Free Online Audio Interview with Fred Alan Wolf

 

11 - The Yoga of Time Travel: How the Mind Can Defeat Time

 

12 - A Watched Pot Never Boils: In the Quantum World There Ain't No Luck

 

In Link #11, Wolf discusses his book on Time Travel, and notes that the techniques taught in that book include

how to slow down, and eventually reverse the aging process. While that's not really addressing your concern,

I have included it since the subject of time travel is clearly alluded to in the excerpts from The Treatise, which I

have referred you to, in Post #32 of The Dowsing Thread. Link #12 indirectly addresses the subject or question

of random events.

[minus]

I was looking for a new apartment recently and I saw another person with an appointment to see the same place. I realized I was engaged in a competition for this apartment, and I wondered how this fits in with the concept of selflessness. Is the proper thing to do to take a horrible apartment that no one else wants? Obviously this can apply to all sorts of other things one applies for: jobs, education, and so forth. I'm interested in any thoughts anyone may have on this.

 

I think it's possible to be selfless and still compete. You can let everyone walk all over you and still be full of yourself about how wonderfully selfless you are. Competition is one of the many ways of nature that you encounter everywhere. One thing I like about Taoism is that it isn't about always doing or not doing this or that, but rather it offers insights on applying flexible inteligence to whatever situation one encounters. It's an important question though; how much do you get into the rat race? I don't think the idea is to avoid competing, but maybe to roll with the punches and find the "path of least resistance" to your objective, which probably doesn't involve "duking it out" with someone for an apartment. lol Selflessness to me is not being a martr but being aware of the illusory nature of the concept of self as a finite body.

 

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