Transmission in Christian Mysticism

[Jeff]

Jeff, Do you have "the intent of Mastery"? Or even high Mastery?

 

In your context, what I'm really asking is, "Do you intend to gain such a level of consciousness as that of a Christ or similar figure?" Or have you crossed into such level(s) on various occasions already?

 

If so to any of the above, then I would fuirther ask, "What specific focuses or practices do you engage, or which are recommended from your teachings' tradition, to gain a Masters' level?

Hi IW,

 

Now those are some interesting and provacitive questions...

 

Rather than any specific goal of mastery or level, I think of it as that I have an infinite curiosity in understanding creation/God. I have found that one does not "gain" mastery, rather one "clears" the obstructions that hide what we have always been. Call it a Buddha or a child of God, it does not matter, the process is much more like remembering than learning.

 

Regarding practices, I think it is highly dependent on the where the person is in their own development. I do believe that late stage practices are critical and much of that knowledge has been lost to humanity. True light transmission is an example of that.

 

On my own practices... It is pretty simple... I stay focused in the pure light of the moment as much as possible.

 

But, if you (or anyone) is interested, I would be happy to discuss issues and possible practices for various levels in spiritual development.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Transmission is a component of many traditions, but it a major component of the inner (or mystical) aspects of the gnostic Christian tradition. Transmissions can be "sent" by divine beings and also masters or adepts of the tradition.

 

There are two main types of transmission. The lower form is at the level of the "mind" and is often called a mind transmission. The higher form is at the level of the heart (or inner heart) and is often called a "light" transmission.

 

A mind level transmission is commonly associated with the 3rd eye (mind) and is at the astral level. Energy is sent in a directed way to another being, and this energy is translated by the mind into some sort of vision (or healing). The experience (and power) of the transmission is highly dependent on both the clarity of the sender and receiver beings. Depending on the "frequency range" of the transmission, issues and fears in the subconscious mind may be hit. The resulting mind translation can create a very wild perception/experience. This is also why astral travel/mediumship is not recommended in many traditions, as it is possible for the mind to be "fooled" or for negative beings to hide behind deep subconscious issues and fears. Finally, this type of transmission is still at the level of duality, as the mind still believes there are two beings (sender and receiver) and hence is subject to things like the perception of "shielding".

 

A light level transmission is very rare and at the level of the "inner heart" or soul. To send such a transmission, one must have realized oneness, or in Christian terms be at least a highly developed "saint" (or master of the tradition). To even notice/receive such a transmission one must have an open heart (open 4th chakra). A light transmission is beyond the local mind and is a communication directly at the soul level. Depending on one's integration at the soul level, the information is then sort of "decompressed" into components that can be understood by the mind. Those with a developed third eye and the capacity to receive a light transmission will often "see" the transmitting soul which can look like a multicolored burning bush at the level of conscious mind.

 

In a light transmission, the sender has realized oneness and sort of "overlays" their aspect of consciousness on the person, then the natural "light" that they are flows through. In a light transmission, everything that is the sending "being" is included/given to the person. In the process, it is more about the persons ability to "receive". To the receiving person it can feel like "being in a bubble" or like their body pressure has dramatically increased/gotten heavy. Additionally, a divine being/master can share/extend mind clarity (peace that passes human understanding) and the Holy Spirit (Kundalini) in the process.

 

Transmissions are normally at the "grace" of the divine beings. Mental clarity and an open heart are the key in contacting divine beings. Once one realizes oneness, you can directly overlay/merge with divine beings up to your relative clarity.

Hi Jeff,

What you are saying is mostly a big load of bullshit.

 

You have no idea what you are talking about, have no experience in it and are misleading most everyone here.

 

The fact is that they don't know you well enough to understand that you are mostly making most of this up, mixing up terms and concepts and filling this thread with, well, just a bunch of bullshit.

 

You have no references, nor any other supporting bodies of writings in your terminology that you can present.

 

You probably still don't do any practices and probably never will. Instead, you seem to spend most of your time spouting these delusional fabrications, which are a blend of the various traditions which you have melted together into a hodge podge of alphabet soup.

 

And, I should warn you. If you keep calling the Holy Spirit "Kundalini", eventually the Holy Spirit will consider it a great insult and you will be rewarded for your slander.

 

Wise up.

 

TI

[Jeff]

Hi TI,

 

It has been a long time, I hope you are well. "Kundalini" is an aspect of the Holy Spirit. I thought these words from a teacher might help remind you of our old discussions on focusing on the heart, playing with "energy" and doing nothing...

 

 

Practices from the Zhang-Zhung Nyan Gyud

as transmitted orally by

Lopon Tenzin Namdak

 

Thödgal refers to the nature of the state of Rigpa.

The Natural State (rigpa) pervades our entire physical body, but it is especially concentrated in the hollow cavity inside of our physical heart.

The Kati nerve is a tube like hollow channel. By means of the wisdom winds (ye-shes kyi rlung), the Natural State (rig-pa) comes up through the channel from the heart.

This represents an important method: the Natural State (rig-pa) comes up out of the heart, moves along the Kati nerve and goes out through the eyes. This Natural State (rigpa) shines through the eyes, that is, it comes up through the channels and goes out through the eyes, although actually the Natural State(rigpa) is immovable. Between our internal space and external space beyond, we have a window or door.

The Natural State (rigpa) resides in the heart and it comes and goes through the Kati channel and through the doorways of the eyes. Here we can find the unification of energy and awareness. Unification of these two exists equally everywhere from the top of the head down to the feet, but normally this situation is covered over with obscurations, and we do not see it clearly. But it is clear in the Kati channel and here it is like the sky without clouds. This is an indestructible gnosis or knowledge.

If we practice consistently, we will realize Ngonshe (mngon-shes) or the clairvoyant powers. Even if we just practice ordinary śamatha, as the Hindus and others do, we will realize these powers. But this clairvoyance is limited, whereas in Tantra and Dzogchen, the clairvoyant powers will be very vast.

“There exist several methods for keeping in the state continuously. We can go on for years without distraction.”

 

(p.s. Alwayson - You might also be interested related our old discussion related to what I called "heart viewing".)

[h.uriahr]

I don't know about transmission but on the day that I was granted the Gift of Tongues, it felt as though the Holy Spirit was downloading into my being

[Intentwielder]

TI,

 

I hope you appreciate Jeffs' generous and enlightened response to your earlier post on this thread. If you want an example of his practice, there it is plain as day. He did not respond in like kind to your intent, only in kindness and attempted empathy.

 

You said to him,

"You have no references, nor any other supporting bodies of writings in your terminology that you can present."

 

First of all I doubt that is the case. Having looked up "Transmission" on Google I found one reference to Benjamin Cremes' use of similar words and concepts. I can personally attest to the truth of most if not all of what Jeff has stated in this thread.

 

Second, the truth doesn't need "references" or "other supporting bodies of writings". Sure, those can be collaborative, but the best test of a premise is simply it's attempted application, in scientific fashion.

Jeff said;

 

"Rather than any specific goal of mastery or level, I think of it as that I have an infinite curiosity in understanding creation/God. I have found that one does not "gain" mastery, rather one "clears" the obstructions that hide what we have always been. Call it a Buddha or a child of God, it does not matter, the process is much more like remembering than learning."

 

IW;

 

Your points here have merit and obvious truth, but there is a desire in me to "balance" them a bit with a counterperspective.

Part of the premise here seems to be that Mastery, such as that of a Christ or similar practitioner, is an innate quality to all peoples' inner selves, that this is less a learned or attained state as it is a regaining of lost memory. I want to say that is true in part, no doubt universally so to some variable degree, but that degree depends on the individual soul. The POTENTIAL and foundation of Mastery is certainly innate, ("you too can do as I") but as for it being fully manifest just from remembering is a very debateable point.

 

Yours is what might be called the "passive/acceptance" stance, ("let go, let God") whereas I tend to lean to the opposite extreme...."active/self initiative" ("if not me then who?"). In the case of "self initiative", the practitioner tends to take all responsibility onto themselves, ("take individual responsiblity and often exclusive action"). It occurs to me that a seemless combination of these two modes of action, in different proportion at different times, would be considered "the middle path" in Tao and thereby more effective. What do you think?

 

You asked if anyone would like to hear specifics of the practice of Transmission, and I for one certainly would.

[Jeff]

 

...

 

Your points here have merit and obvious truth, but there is a desire in me to "balance" them a bit with a counterperspective.

Part of the premise here seems to be that Mastery, such as that of a Christ or similar practitioner, is an innate quality to all peoples' inner selves, that this is less a learned or attained state as it is a regaining of lost memory. I want to say that is true in part, no doubt universally so to some variable degree, but that degree depends on the individual soul. The POTENTIAL and foundation of Mastery is certainly innate, ("you too can do as I") but as for it being fully manifest just from remembering is a very debateable point.

 

Yours is what might be called the "passive/acceptance" stance, ("let go, let God") whereas I tend to lean to the opposite extreme...."active/self initiative" ("if not me then who?"). In the case of "self initiative", the practitioner tends to take all responsibility onto themselves, ("take individual responsiblity and often exclusive action"). It occurs to me that a seemless combination of these two modes of action, in different proportion at different times, would be considered "the middle path" in Tao and thereby more effective. What do you think?

 

You asked if anyone would like to hear specifics of the practice of Transmission, and I for one certainly would.

IW,

 

I may have somehow misspoken if you have somehow given the impression that my path has been passive. While I believe that "acceptance" and "letting go" is critical of any path, I more consider myself in your self initiative category. As I said above, I have a deep curiosity and enjoy exploring. Many times I have pushed farther than I should and been energetically "fried". I would say more that I have a deep abiding trust in God/Divine and know "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that everything will be OK (even in death). I would also say that a truly loving grandmother knows way more about spiritual growth than anything that can be found in any practice.

 

To your other point, I would say that all souls have equal potential, but i would agree that each soul has a different "starting point" that is experienced in a human life. So, on a practical level I would probably agree with you.

 

On describing how to do a transmission, the challenge is that rather than a practice, it is really an inherent capability of what is often called a "light body". The light body itself is not really something you build, but rather the natural outgrowth of realizing the inner heart/8th chakra/Rigpa. All of which is really ultimately dependent on removal of issues/fears and obstructions in the "local mind".

 

Meditation and energy practices help one notice and then release (let go of) the energy structures that make up the stored "form" of the issues/fears and obstructions.

 

As I said in the earlier post, there really is no "one size fits all", but i do believe it is helpful to realize what types of practices are useful at different levels of spiritual development. I will start such a thread in a day or so. Everyone feel free to share.

[Tibetan_Ice]

IW

 

Kundalini is not the Holy Spirit. I have experienced both. I know the difference.

The Holy Spirit is a bright ball of light with wings that shoots beams onto people's heads. After the annointing, the person has a light form on the top of the head which resembles two wings or a large mustache. When the beam of light hits, you hear a popping sound. Then it feels like some golden honey is oozing down inside your skull, slowly moving. The experience is ecstatic, pure and heavenly.

Kundalini lies at the base of the spine. It is sexual energy, very powerful and can render your body into a transparent electric field which burns. It is dangerous and can easily make you lose your mind. The Holy Spirit would never do that to you.

 

This thread's topic is "transmission in christian mysticism". So what are Buddhist/Bon writings being used to explain

"transmissions in Christian Mysticism?

 

Why Jeff would then quote and refer to Bon teachings about Togal is beyond me. Well, maybe it isn't, because of Jeff's propensity is to borrow terminology from one discipline and make a hodge podge, not respecting the history or culture of the concepts. By pulling the terminology out of context, it only serves to confuse, confuscate and it makes a mess.

 

Further, his original statements reflect his lack of understanding, and he does not give any references. He sites no texts, or links to what he has conjured up.

Ok, let's take a look:

Transmission is a component of many traditions, but it a major component of the inner (or mystical) aspects of the gnostic Christian tradition. Transmissions can be "sent" by divine beings and also masters or adepts of the tradition.

 

The Christian/Catholic church does not use the term "transmission". They call it sacrements. And, any priest can perform sacrements. A priest is not a master nor an adept.

 

There are two main types of transmission. The lower form is at the level of the "mind" and is often called a mind transmission. The higher form is at the level of the heart (or inner heart) and is often called a "light" transmission.

 

Often called a "mind transmission"? How often? Where is the proof?

 

A mind level transmission is commonly associated with the 3rd eye (mind) and is at the astral level. Energy is sent in a directed way to another being, and this energy is translated by the mind into some sort of vision (or healing). The experience (and power) of the transmission is highly dependent on both the clarity of the sender and receiver beings. Depending on the "frequency range" of the transmission, issues and fears in the subconscious mind may be hit. The resulting mind translation can create a very wild perception/experience. This is also why astral travel/mediumship is not recommended in many traditions, as it is possible for the mind to be "fooled" or for negative beings to hide behind deep subconscious issues and fears. Finally, this type of transmission is still at the level of duality, as the mind still believes there are two beings (sender and receiver) and hence is subject to things like the perception of "shielding".

 

Where does it say that it is at the 'astral' level? The astral level is very slow compared to the causal level, or the mental level. And why not at the etheric level? Crap..

Why does the mind need to translate the astral transmission? Aside from the fact that mind/awareness is way faster than astral, and mind to mind transmissions do not use the astral, astral travel is something we all do every night, naturally.

 

"and this energy is translated by the mind into some sort of vision (or healing)."

Nonsense. You can mold the astral any way you want and it will not affect the material plane.

 

 

A light level transmission is very rare and at the level of the "inner heart" or soul. To send such a transmission, one must have realized oneness, or in Christian terms be at least a highly developed "saint" (or master of the tradition). To even notice/receive such a transmission one must have an open heart (open 4th chakra). A light transmission is beyond the local mind and is a communication directly at the soul level. Depending on one's integration at the soul level, the information is then sort of "decompressed" into components that can be understood by the mind. Those with a developed third eye and the capacity to receive a light transmission will often "see" the transmitting soul which can look like a multicolored burning bush at the level of conscious mind.

 

In a light transmission, the sender has realized oneness and sort of "overlays" their aspect of consciousness on the person, then the natural "light" that they are flows through. In a light transmission, everything that is the sending "being" is included/given to the person. In the process, it is more about the persons ability to "receive". To the receiving person it can feel like "being in a bubble" or like their body pressure has dramatically increased/gotten heavy. Additionally, a divine being/master can share/extend mind clarity (peace that passes human understanding) and the Holy Spirit (Kundalini) in the process.

 

Transmissions are normally at the "grace" of the divine beings. Mental clarity and an open heart are the key in contacting divine beings. Once one realizes oneness, you can directly overlay/merge with divine beings up to your relative clarity.

One does not need an open heart to gain blessings from saints or divine beings. Many angels and saints help people in need, torn lonely, sad people. Suicidal people. People whose hearts are closed and hardened. It has nothing to do with the person's ability to receive, their clarity etc.

 

Again, where are references to the Christain writings that say these preposturous misnomers?

 

Jeff just makes it up as he goes based on what he has heard or read in the past.

 

And, I notice that your discovery of Benjamin Cremes has some significance for you. If you have to go looking to define "transmission" and then have to take the word of someone who erroneously channels "Maitreya", can't predict accurately when his return to earth was supposed to be, then perhaps you are in good company with Jeff.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Creme

He asserts that the second coming prophesied by many religions will come in the form of Maitreya the World Teacher. Maitreya is the name Buddhists use for the future Buddha, but Creme claims that Maitreya is the teacher that all religions point towards and hope for. Other names for him, according to Creme, are the Christ, the Imam Mahdi, Krishna, and the Messiah. Creme says Maitreya is the "Avatar for the Aquarian Age" and is currently living in London since 19 July 1977

 

...

 

1982 prediction[edit source | editbeta]

In the spring of 1982 Creme placed advertisements in newspapers around the world saying, "The Christ is now here". According to Creme the "Christ", whom he also called "Maitreya", would announce his existence on world wide television broadcasts. Creme stated in these newspaper advertisements that the Second Coming of Christ would occur on Monday, 21 June 1982 (the summer solstice in the Northern hemisphere).^{[citation needed]} On 14 May 1982 Benjamin Creme held a press conference in Los Angeles, USA. Over 90 members of the media attended and heard Creme announce that Maitreya was living within the Asian community, in the Brick Lane area of East London. Creme stated in this press conference when asked "what if someone tried to kill him?" that Maitreya could not be killed because he is invulnerable. He presented the journalists with a challenge: if media made a serious attempt to seek Maitreya in London, he would reveal himself to them.

Creme has stated that when the "Day of Declaration" occurs, "The Christ will come on the world's television channels, linked together by satellite. All those with access to television will see... [His face]. He will establish a telepathic rapport with all humanity simultaneously". While the Christ is speaking... [everyone will feel far more love than they've ever felt before, that massive outpouring of love will cause] hundreds of thousands of 'miracle' cures [to] take place simultaneously."

 

Not credible, in my opinion.

 

[Jeff]

Hi TI,

 

I would definitely agree that there is not much directly written on Transmission (or any advanced practice) in the Christian tradition. It has historically been only an oral tradition since the early consolidation of "Chrisitanity" by the Roman empire. Also, if you have read the Christian Mysticism thread (http://thetaobums.com/topic/31213-christian-mysticism/), you will find in greater detail my position and doctrinal support. In essence, I am saying that the "true meaning" of communion is direct transmission with Jesus. As, the reader will see, it was a controversial position for some of the forum members.

 

This thread and the details I describe in it are an outgrowth of the requests of certain members who participated in the Christian Mysticism thread.

 

Regarding "light" transmission in general... Any master/guru who has the capability to transmit at the "light" level is beyond the differences of mind and paths/traditions. Hence, since you are very familiar with Dzogchen (which also uses transmission), feel free to post any Dzogchen/Bon master's words which would disagree or contradict anything that I have said regarding transmission or light transmission. Any disagreements you may find would be useful (and fun) to discuss.

 

(p.s. in our email discussions years ago, I used words like "connecting" to describe things like mind transmissions.)

[Intentwielder]

Ti,

I admit to the tendency, probably a bad habit to some degree, of sometimes giving too much credit where it is not necessarily earned. It is a tendency to support soemthing or someone out of enthusiasm for what truth they DO speak, and ignoring things they say which are not true, out of a desire to boost such a message. Call it “ecumenical” if you wish.

You're absolutely right, kundalini is not the Holy Spirit. It has been explained exactly as you said, as sexual energy at the base of the spine. And it's true that credibility is an extremely important consideration in any embrace of a system or person. It is a necessary prerequisite for the discovery and application of truth. I would ask you, however, “What IS the 'Holy Spirit'?”...a practical definition if you please, not just scriptural quotations.

 

It is necessary to point out that TRUTH is what is most important in any spiritual path, in and of itself, and for its' own sake. It doesn't matter who speaks that truth, or even in what manner it is spoken, so long as it is crystallized. Traditions, lineages, doctrines, dogmas and all that, are not in themselves what deserves respect. What deserves respect, and therefore careful consideration, are those things, (including many of Jeffs' statements) which contain truth.

 

You said;

“This thread's topic is "transmission in christian mysticism". So what are Buddhist/Bon writings being used to explain "transmissions in Christian Mysticism?

 

IW;

Why shouldn't Buddhist writings be referred to, to explain Christian mysticism? Truth is not the exclusive property of either tradition, nor do both of them combined encompass it. The fact is, the truth is the truth regardless of how we may classify it. Traditions are only points of reference...they are ALL “made up” to some degree, and would not exist within their current classifications or dogmas were it not for humans so naming them. Even the language we're using here (English) is largely arbitrary and aritifical. The important thing is that they attempt to explain what IS, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing miserably. It is up to the practitioner to determine, through experimentation, what is factual and what is not, according to experience. My personal preference is to summarily discard ALL traditions due to their historically distorted and biased nature, in favor of direct perception, (gnosticism). But quoting what truth they do hold, can be useful for the sake of communication, and so as to not “re-invent the any given wheel” when it is already known.

 

TI:

“The Christian/Catholic church does not use the term "transmission". They call it sacrements. And, any priest can perform sacrements. A priest is not a master nor an adept.”

IW;

No doubt that is true. But then again the Catholic Church sponsored a thousand years of intellectual repression, (the Dark Ages) and arbitrary torture. How could a priest of such a tradition be a true nmaster or an adept, and still remain part of such an organization? If you want credibility, then by all means apply such criteria to EVERYONE.

Jeff was speaking of the “mind level transmission” and said that it is “at the astral level”.

TI;

“Where does it say that it is at the 'astral' level? The astral level is very slow compared to the causal level, or the mental level. And why not at the etheric level? Crap..

Why does the mind need to translate the astral transmission? Aside from the fact that mind/awareness is way faster than astral, and mind to mind transmissions do not use the astral, astral travel is something we all do every night, naturally.”

 

IW;

I agree with your points here. Just because something is done with the mind does not imply it is of an astral, (“desire body”) level. The statement of mind being astral assumes that personal feeling-desires are the only way it implicitly functions. On the other hand, this is indeed how the majority of human minds function today, focused almost exclusively on their personal feelings and desires, rather than CAUSE or PURE SUBJECT MATTER. Given this I can easily overlook the statement and understand it as, “typically so”.

 

And I empathize very clearly with what you're saying about Benjamin Creme, and his (apparently incorrect) prophecy of Christs' return. Yes, his credibility is shaken. However, this fact does not diminish the spoken truth that intention can be and is spiritually transmitted person to person, and that such a thing is a learned skill that can be mastered. Frankly, given the value of the information presented, I don't much care if Creme predicted purple gumdrops to rain from the sky for 40 days and nights. What matters is that extremely valuable truth has been presented, the content of which I can personally attest to. I've been attempting to advocate such inforamtion for decades, and to find even a semblance of an ally in this work is refreshing.

 

My point here, brother, is that the truth is all that really matters. Let's first enhance it wherever it appears, and not distract from it unduly, letting the dogmas and misperceptions fall as they may in te due course of the discussion of it's practice.

[konchog uma]

has anyone read the desert fathers? any good recommendations/sources? i was just talking to a contemplative prayer friend of mine for a couple hours about correlations between Christianity and Buddhism. That being said, I knew that this thread would get mucked up with kundalini nonsense, and dzogchen rhetoric... lol kinda like foreknowledge except on TTB its just pattern recognition. I don't think that the holy spirit manifests in the same way to all people, or it would be widely known, and not just the words of TI that it was a ball of light with wings and lasers. If anyone has references for that idea being acceptable as a fact i would be interested. I could not find any by searching except that John saw the Holy Spirit alight upon Christ like a dove at his baptism. Anyway, without a firm foundation in Jewish Kabbalah (which i don't have) I dont think anyone should be commenting in an authoritative way about the relationship between Shekinah, kundalini, and Holy Spirit. Is anyone able to describe that relationship from the framework of Christian mysticism/Jewish Kaballah? That would be appreciated. No universal kaballah or magickal pseudo-kaballah please.

Edited September 20, 2013 by konchog uma

[Jeff]

has anyone read the desert fathers? any good recommendations/sources? i was just talking to a contemplative prayer friend of mine for a couple hours about correlations between Christianity and Buddhism. That being said, I knew that this thread would get mucked up with kundalini nonsense, and dzogchen rhetoric... lol kinda like foreknowledge except on TTB its just pattern recognition. I don't think that the holy spirit manifests in the same way to all people, or it would be widely known, and not just the words of TI that it was a ball of light with wings and lasers. If anyone has references for that idea being acceptable as a fact i would be interested. I could not find any by searching except that John saw the Holy Spirit alight upon Christ like a dove at his baptism. Anyway, without a firm foundation in Jewish Kabbalah (which i don't have) I dont think anyone should be commenting in an authoritative way about the relationship between Shekinah, kundalini, and Holy Spirit. Is anyone able to describe that relationship from the framework of Christian mysticism/Jewish Kaballah? That would be appreciated. No universal kaballah or magickal pseudo-kaballah please.

 

Here is an online source for the "Sayings of the Desert Fathers". ( http://www.ixoyc.net/data/Fathers/174.pdf) Also, if you are interested in Eastern Orthodox aspects in general, I would highly recommend the Philokalia. There are many good sources for it online.

 

Regards.

[konchog uma]

thanks jeff!

also noticed that the OP referenced gnostic Christianity, so feel free to ignore my query about Jewish Kaballah... There is no real evidence that JK is what Christ practiced anyway, its just a common assumption.

[Jeff]

thanks jeff!

 

also noticed that the OP referenced gnostic Christianity, so feel free to ignore my query about Jewish Kaballah... There is no real evidence that JK is what Christ practiced anyway, its just a common assumption.

 

No problem, happy to help. But, I am a little confused as to what you are specifically looking for. Are you looking for specific references regarding the Holy Spirit as like below...

 

 

John 14:10-17

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. 12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask^[c^] anything in My name, I will do it.15 “If you love Me, keep^[d^] My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

 

Or more related in general to Christian Mysticism, like...

 

Gospel of Thomas - Sayings 1 and 2.

 

 

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

[konchog uma]

Well what i was referring to was the relationship between Holy Spirit and kundalini in Jewish Kaballah. The verses you cite are interesting, but do not clarify that relationship. Some people translate Shekinah as a synonym of kundalini but I understand that that is not entirely correct and a projection of one culture's interpretation onto another's. I am asking because i personally believe that there is "one thing" and that Hindus do not have some special access to kundalini which Jews are not afforded or any other such nonsense. So if there is a relationship which is described in the JK teachings, I am curious about it.

Transmission is a component of many traditions, but it a major component of the inner (or mystical) aspects of the gnostic Christian tradition. Transmissions can be "sent" by divine beings and also masters or adepts of the tradition.

 

There are two main types of transmission. The lower form is at the level of the "mind" and is often called a mind transmission. The higher form is at the level of the heart (or inner heart) and is often called a "light" transmission.

 

A mind level transmission is commonly associated with the 3rd eye (mind) and is at the astral level. Energy is sent in a directed way to another being, and this energy is translated by the mind into some sort of vision (or healing). The experience (and power) of the transmission is highly dependent on both the clarity of the sender and receiver beings. Depending on the "frequency range" of the transmission, issues and fears in the subconscious mind may be hit. The resulting mind translation can create a very wild perception/experience. This is also why astral travel/mediumship is not recommended in many traditions, as it is possible for the mind to be "fooled" or for negative beings to hide behind deep subconscious issues and fears. Finally, this type of transmission is still at the level of duality, as the mind still believes there are two beings (sender and receiver) and hence is subject to things like the perception of "shielding".

 

A light level transmission is very rare and at the level of the "inner heart" or soul. To send such a transmission, one must have realized oneness, or in Christian terms be at least a highly developed "saint" (or master of the tradition). To even notice/receive such a transmission one must have an open heart (open 4th chakra). A light transmission is beyond the local mind and is a communication directly at the soul level. Depending on one's integration at the soul level, the information is then sort of "decompressed" into components that can be understood by the mind. Those with a developed third eye and the capacity to receive a light transmission will often "see" the transmitting soul which can look like a multicolored burning bush at the level of conscious mind.

 

In a light transmission, the sender has realized oneness and sort of "overlays" their aspect of consciousness on the person, then the natural "light" that they are flows through. In a light transmission, everything that is the sending "being" is included/given to the person. In the process, it is more about the persons ability to "receive". To the receiving person it can feel like "being in a bubble" or like their body pressure has dramatically increased/gotten heavy. Additionally, a divine being/master can share/extend mind clarity (peace that passes human understanding) and the Holy Spirit (Kundalini) in the process.

 

Transmissions are normally at the "grace" of the divine beings. Mental clarity and an open heart are the key in contacting divine beings. Once one realizes oneness, you can directly overlay/merge with divine beings up to your relative clarity.

 

do you have a reference or references for these distinctions? Not that i disagree with them, but just that you seem to dabble in a lot of traditions and i don't read a lot about gnostic Christianity so i wonder where these ideas come from.

[Jeff]

Well what i was referring to was the relationship between Holy Spirit and kundalini in Jewish Kaballah. The verses you cite are interesting, but do not clarify that relationship. Some people translate Shekinah as a synonym of kundalini but I understand that that is not entirely correct and a projection of one culture's interpretation onto another's. I am asking because i personally believe that there is "one thing" and that Hindus do not have some special access to kundalini which Jews are not afforded or any other such nonsense. So if there is a relationship which is described in the JK teachings, I am curious about it.

 

Thanks for the greater details. I would also agree with you that there is really only "one thing". In my experience in Christian tradition Shekinah = Holy Spirit and Kundalini is a earthly power in the body of the Holy Spirit. The text below alludes to it as in Christian tradition the world is "dead" and the power of the Holy Spirit "raises you up" (as in Kundalini). The "descent" and "doves" is a later (completion) stage...

 

Romans 8:11-14

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

Also, the "good vibrations" of Kundalini can be called "living water"...

 

 

John 7:37-38

37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

 

(p.s. In the original greek, I think the words are more "out of the belly" rather than heart.)

Edited September 20, 2013 by Jeff

[konchog uma]

thanks

 

Where are the roots of the idea that kundalini is an earthly power?

 

When kundalini resides in the lower centers, it causes a lot of gross and sexual fixation, but as it moves up the body, it is the cause of virtuous emotions (heart) and nondual awareness (crown). Not everyone's kundalini is confined to the root chakra, and there is much more to it than sexual energy.

[Jeff]

thanks

 

Where are the roots of the idea that kundalini is an earthly power?

 

When kundalini resides in the lower centers, it causes a lot of gross and sexual fixation, but as it moves up the body, it is the cause of virtuous emotions (heart) and nondual awareness (crown). Not everyone's kundalini is confined to the root chakra, and there is much more to it than sexual energy.

 

Rather than an earthly power, in the Christian tradition it's more like a seed planted in us that is actualized. Sort of like we have an earthly body and a soul. Kundalini could be described as the "integration" process of the earthly body and soul. You might find the following scripture helpful...

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

 

p.s. Reading these texts you probably now see why in the past I have tended to use Buddhist terms to try to explain things.

[Tibetan_Ice]

TI, I am curious about your motivation for posting in this thread. (Not looking for a long winded answer. Maybe you can save your critiques for a separate thread. So we don't land off-topic.)

 

In another thread, you agree with Jeff about a fundamental premise. Actually, your position appears to be stronger than Jeff's.

 

 

 

I would be curious how you would explain your position.

 

Hi RV.

Actually, I lied. Jesus is not the ultimate Dzogchen master, he is far beyond that. But I'm sure that if he felt the need he could become one in the blink of an eye.

 

Case in point. Jeff said: "Was also a Dzogchen master" and I think you took his statement literally, and I think he meant that literally too.

 

My statement is present tense. Yes, Jesus is alive and well and I "talk" to him every day. He is always there. You too can have a personal relationship with him if you would only ask. And then you wouldn't refer to him in the past tense like Jeff did.

 

My motivation for posting in this thread? I just couldn't take it any more. I had to say something. When you let people spout ridiculous claims like "the Holy Spirit is kundalini", or the mishmash of crap that he has posted about Christian "transmission" and you can do something about it, I tend to act rather than bury my head in the sand.

 

Is that short enough?

 

TI

[h.uriahr]

Maybe h.uriahr would want to share briefly his experience of the holy spirit. I am curious how it compares to your experience, TI.

I would love to share my experience :)I have many but one time in particular stands out above the rest.I was at Sunday Service. We were singing and praising. The lead singer on this day was talking about giving all of yourself to God, and how some of us had a little bit still held back. I was standing up, arms raised to heaven, crying out for Christ Jesus. I realized that I had some guilt inside me from years ago and some early child trauma that I "thought" was ok but I never dealt with it really. As I was crying out to Jesus, I was physically forcing this stuff out of me, I don't really know how else to put it.As the last piece of junk left, I felt this soft touch grab my hands, it slid slowly down my arms, covering me in an invisible cocoon. As it covered my body I felt this vibration from inside, I also heard an audible noise, as if a breeze was coming through the church. The vibration was in my stomach but in my heart too. A connection from my heart to my head was made. Now I was still crying out to Jesus as this was happening, I was crying out and crying, praying harder than I've ever prayed. As this internal switch was made a noise came out from my mouth that I had never heard. With each syllable and odd word that came it I started to heal from the inside out. My eyes were closed as I was Praying but it was as if the church had a spotlight inside it. I kept my eyes closed and let the Holy Ghost do what It was doing. Once I was let go I ran around the church hugging people and patting them on the back because it was the only way for me to pass the Anointing on others. My whole body and being felt saturated. I could feel the Anointing sticking to others too.I have more experiences too. I will share them later if they are brought up.God Bless you :)I would also like to add that there was an internal transformation that took place. When I pray in Tongues I cry. No matter what. Tears roll, the deeper into Prayer I go the more and the harder I cry.

 

Hi RV. Actually, I lied. Jesus is not the ultimate Dzogchen master, he is far beyond that. But I'm sure that if he felt the need he could become one in the blink of an eye. Case in point. Jeff said: "Was also a Dzogchen master" and I think you took his statement literally, and I think he meant that literally too. My statement is present tense. Yes, Jesus is alive and well and I "talk" to him every day. He is always there. You too can have a personal relationship with him if you would only ask. And then you wouldn't refer to him in the past tense like Jeff did. My motivation for posting in this thread? I just couldn't take it any more. I had to say something. When you let people spout ridiculous claims like "the Holy Spirit is kundalini", or the mishmash of crap that he has posted about Christian "transmission" and you can do something about it, I tend to act rather than bury my head in the sand. Is that short enough? :)TI

Brother in Christ Jesus I LOVE YOU!!!!You are AWESOME!!!!

[Jeff]

While it is a couple of years old now, given some recent interest in the topic, I thought I might resurrect this thread for any who are interested.

 

Best wishes.

[noonespecial]

Dont forget the light required for a light transmission.

[rex]

Isn't transmission received with the scaraments, like Baptism and Holy Communion? Other than that through Grace via prayer, faith and devotion.  According to Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." There's gotta be transmission there too?

[Jeff]

Isn't transmission received with the scaraments, like Baptism and Holy Communion? Other than that through Grace via prayer, faith and devotion.  According to Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." There's gotta be transmission there too?

 

Agreed. There is a form of energetic transmission in all interaction. It is particularly strong if one actually connects to Jesus in communion. True communion is a great gift. As stated in John...

 

John 7:37-38

37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

 

In true communion, there is a connection at the heart (and higher) and one feels the rushing rivers of living water (energy/vibrations).

[noonespecial]

Isn't transmission received with the scaraments, like Baptism and Holy Communion? Other than that through Grace via prayer, faith and devotion.  According to Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." There's gotta be transmission there too?

 

Based on occult principles it would probably depend on who gives the Baptism and prepares the Communion? Or likewise on the person receiving? Maybe Jeff can add?

 

As far as Grace, I absolutly agree with you, in fact I am here now on this forum, on this path because of Grace (I asked and knocked and was answered). IMHO it's the key element that is missing in the western tradition post Regardie/Crowley, who for a lack of a better term walked the path of strength, strong arming the divine through formula and barborous words - take one look at the modern occult groups then read the Fama Fratenitatis or even the Corpus Hermeticum and the discerning mind will quickly notice a vast discrepency.

[noonespecial]

To add - I was recently at a Baptism at Roman Catholic church, and it really is a grandiose invocation, the Angels, the Saints, in addition to the Trinity, etc are all invited. And indeed for those with eyes to see, the whisps of light were present.