Which combo of qigong instruction? Advice appreciated.

[Jainarayan]

OK, so I'm doing some reading up on SFQ and Chunyi Lin. A lot of stuff I'm reading here at TTB is coming together for me. For that I offer namaskars. I like the SFQ site and the simple descriptions. I forgot who, in another thread recommended the Small Universe Meditation cd from SFQ. I'm not sure whether it should be the 30 or 60 min. cd.

 

Anyway, I found the SFQ Fundamentals Course http://www.springforestqigong.com/index.php/sfq-fundamentals-course So now I'm deciding which is a better way to go... the Small Universe Meditation cd from SFQ and Master Kam Lam Chuen's http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-way-of-energy-master-lam-kam-chuen/1112272856?ean=9780671736453&itm=1&usri=9780671736453 or just the SFQ Fundamentals Course. I kind of think that mixing approaches is not such a good idea and should go with the SFQ Fundamentals Course.

 

 

[hydrogen]

OK, so I'm doing some reading up on SFQ and Chunyi Lin. A lot of stuff I'm reading here at TTB is coming together for me. For that I offer namaskars. I like the SFQ site and the simple descriptions. I forgot who, in another thread recommended the Small Universe Meditation cd from SFQ. I'm not sure whether it should be the 30 or 60 min. cd.

 

Anyway, I found the SFQ Fundamentals Course http://www.springforestqigong.com/index.php/sfq-fundamentals-course So now I'm deciding which is a better way to go... the Small Universe Meditation cd from SFQ and Master Kam Lam Chuen's http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-way-of-energy-master-lam-kam-chuen/1112272856?ean=9780671736453&itm=1&usri=9780671736453 or just the SFQ Fundamentals Course. I kind of think that mixing approaches is not such a good idea and should go with the SFQ Fundamentals Course.

 

 

If your energy channel isn't open enough, Z.Z is not very productive.

[Jainarayan]

If your energy channel isn't open enough, Z.Z is not very productive.

 

I'm sorry... what is Z.Z? Did I miss that in one of the links... I do tend to miss things.

 

Edit... nevermind... Zhan zhuang. I'm dense.

 

So am I correct in leaving Master Lam's alone and going with SFQ Fundamentals Course?

Edited July 25, 2013 by Jainarayan

[hydrogen]

I'm sorry... what is Z.Z? Did I miss that in one of the links... I do tend to miss things.

 

Edit... nevermind... Zhan zhuang. I'm dense.

 

So am I correct in leaving Master Lam's alone and going with SFQ Fundamentals Course?

 

You should read about ZZ. The idea of Z.Z. is very important.

 

I've read Master Kam Lam Chuen's book, which is good for advanced practioner. I think B.K "open energy gate" is a more approachable book for beginners.

[Jainarayan]

You should read about ZZ. The idea of Z.Z. is very important.

 

I've read Master Kam Lam Chuen's book, which is good for advanced practioner. I think B.K "open energy gate" is a more approachable book for beginners.

 

I've been reading here and there about Z.Z, putting pieces together. So far what I know is from a few of Master Lam Kam-Chuen's videos on standing like a tree. I didn't get very far into it. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, be disappointed and/or practice wrong, and then throw it all away. And unfortunately in my area we sorely lack any sort of training centers. I'll look up open energy gate also. Thanks.

[JohnC]

If your energy channel isn't open enough, Z.Z is not very productive.

Not in my experience. ZZ is a foundational practice and opened my channels.

 

I literaly think it's one of the most important in opening and grounding. I've heard of many masters that require students to practice zz before going on to anything else.

 

John

[BaguaKicksAss]

Actually I started with ZZ as well, just my teacher didn't tell me what it was called, he just said to do it . I did it for a few years thinking it was just another magic based energy exercise. Then when asked years later he confirmed that it was ZZ lol.

 

(Well I say started with if we don't count 20 years of non-gigong energy work and magic.... which I don't as it is quite a bit different.)

 

Interesting about whether to start with ZZ, qigong or taichi.

 

Anyways, I would say pick one (which it sounds like the OP did) and just stick with it for a few years. Mixing and matching really isn't a good idea when one is new to something.

[Jainarayan]

Mixing and matching really isn't a good idea when one is new to something.

 

Which is what I don't want to do. It seems that the SFQ Fundamentals Course http://www.springfor...amentals-course is really basic beginner's that is one-stop-shopping. And I am really a novice, not even a novice... almost totally ignorant. I want to learn the meditation as well as the exercises. Hence my questions. I should also mention that I am on medication for bipolar 2/ hypomania. I'm mostly depressive. I take Welbutrin, Lamictal (mood stabilizer) and Valium. I want to wean off the meds., or at least decrease them but not unless I know that I can control things through my own mind and energy.

[steve]

Which is what I don't want to do. It seems that the SFQ Fundamentals Course http://www.springfor...amentals-course is really basic beginner's that is one-stop-shopping. And I am really a novice, not even a novice... almost totally ignorant. I want to learn the meditation as well as the exercises. Hence my questions. I should also mention that I am on medication for bipolar 2/ hypomania. I'm mostly depressive. I take Welbutrin, Lamictal (mood stabilizer) and Valium. I want to wean off the meds., or at least decrease them but not unless I know that I can control things through my own mind and energy.

 

I would highly recommend that you do your absolute best to find a teacher you can work with, even if it's only an occasional workshop.

With your medical diagnosis, I think the choice of practice is much less important than expert guidance through this material (edit - actually I would say the same irrespective of medical diagnosis).

Without a teacher, you are really groping around in the dark and a good teacher can help you navigate the subtleties. I can't emphasize this enough. These practices are powerful but are very sophisticated.

I wouldn't trade an hour of good, personal instruction for a library of books and DVD's.

Edited July 25, 2013 by steve

[BaguaKicksAss]

Steve beat me to it while I was contemplating a reply . Yes definitely find a teacher to guide you. With the various medications and the various symptoms you were experiencing which led to the medications it is very important that you find a teacher who can watch your progress, as well as give personalized instruction. I feel this is important for anyone with any sort of major health ailment, no matter what it would be. The training really is different until one is up to speed. This may sound more difficult or annoying, but actually the personalized instruction will bring you far further in the long run, and you will get to learn far more than if you were just a run of the mill qigong student.

 

A teacher can watch what happens with the energy and your channels as you work with the various practices, as well as make sure that qi deviations and the like don't crop up (oh hell actually I recommend everyone get an in person teacher, but this view isn't very popular online). This is especially important when on strong medications though. Even better if you can find someone who also has an expertise in TCM.

 

It is possible to find teachers who will give personalized training who don't charge that much, if you look around. Hopefully you do live in an area with such resources though. What I am concerned about is that any previous conditions may get worse by introducing large amounts of energy into the system.

 

Perhaps you can also ask the SFQ folks if there is anyone in your area.

[steve]

What I am concerned about is that any previous conditions may get worse by introducing large amounts of energy into the system.

 

Quoted for emphasis!

 

My perspective is more one of heightened sensitivity and awareness.

I'm not a believer in adding or gaining or storing energy - for me the experience has been more one of uncovering the energy that is always already there and learning how to work with it ---> just concepts. Either way the end result is the same - concentration and reinforcement of whatever is already built into the system, good and bad.

 

I have seen this happen first hand to some very high level adepts who had expert instruction.

This is why most systems progress very slowly and with frequent correction from the shifu, and include a long period of stabilizing and purification type exercises. Most good teachers are also selective about who and what they teach. And even with all of that, people get into trouble sometimes.

 

Depending on where you're located, there are folks here that might be able to help locate a good teacher.

[Jainarayan]

I hear you guys, this is something that has run through my mind and why I've been asking and haven't just jumped in. I wish I could find a teacher. I was "lucky" to find a wu tai chi teacher at a fitness center who does an hour on Sunday mornings. Yoga is just as bad. I've searched every directory I could think of and asked everyone who is remotely connected with this. If I were in north Jersey, I'd be up to my armpits in teachers. I started looking at the directory on the SFQ site, most of it seems to be in MN. The search goes on. And maybe the time isn't right.

[JohnC]

I gotta say too guys... and I don't want to confuse , but if I'd waited to find a teacher I probably would never have gotten into qigong/energy work/etc. I started Spring forest qigong.... and thing it's a great one, safe (as far as I know) and effective.

So trust your gut too. The path will appear as you walk it, even if you are making mistakes. I personally believe it's better to try and learn than not try out of fear of the boogey man and you never move.

 

John

[chi 2012]

Spring Forest Qigong is perfectly safe. If you buy it from the Learning Strategies website they give you free coaching and also the product contains more info. You can ask questions on the SFQ forum over there. There are testimonials from people on the Learning Strategies forum and website that have weaned themselves off of medication from practicing SFQ.

[Jetsun]

I have heard Wong Kew Kit (sp?) say there are risks for doing zz for some people, if you gather a lot of energy in a closed up conflicted system then it isn't always productive.

 

"Zhan Zhuang is a powerful exercise, and is best done under supervision. Those who practice wrongly and still persist on, may vomit blood, have deformed bodily structure, or insidiously damaged internal organs. There are usually warning signs for wrong practice, such as discomfort, pain and nervousness."

 

-Wong Kiew Kit

Edited July 26, 2013 by Jetsun

[Jainarayan]

Spring Forest Qigong is perfectly safe. If you buy it from the Learning Strategies website they give you free coaching and also the product contains more info. You can ask questions on the SFQ forum over there. There are testimonials from people on the Learning Strategies forum and website that have weaned themselves off of medication from practicing SFQ.

 

OK, this is great to know, thanks.

[Jainarayan]

I have heard Wong Kew Kit (sp?) say there are risks for doing zz for some people, if you gather a lot of energy in a closed up conflicted system then it isn't always productive.

 

"Zhan Zhuang is a powerful exercise, and is best done under supervision. Those who practice wrongly and still persist on, may vomit blood, have deformed bodily structure, or insidiously damaged internal organs. There are usually warning signs for wrong practice, such as discomfort, pain and nervousness."

 

-Wong Kiew Kit

 

Yikes! and I thought Z.Z as shown in Master Lam's videos was primarily the physical aspect... getting fit by standing still, standing like a tree as it's billed, with a lot of cognizance of your body while it's doing the exercises. Perhaps I haven't looked closely enough at it.

[steve]

Yikes! and I thought Z.Z as shown in Master Lam's videos was primarily the physical aspect... getting fit by standing still, standing like a tree as it's billed, with a lot of cognizance of your body while it's doing the exercises. Perhaps I haven't looked closely enough at it.

That's what it seems like to people who only read about it.

And to ChiDragon -

 

If you decide to practice for a while and get to the point where you are standing daily for 20 minutes or more, cool things may open up for you to explore. You need to show the practices a great deal of respect for them to teach you. Especially if you are not working with a teacher.

[Jainarayan]

If you decide to practice for a while and get to the point where you are standing daily for 20 minutes or more, cool things may open up for you to explore. You need to show the practices a great deal of respect for them to teach you. Especially if you are not working with a teacher.

 

That's pretty much what I thought it is... working up to doing one position at a time properly for 20 minutes, which I read can take a few weeks at least. Then moving on to the next one, rinse repeat until the positions can each be held for 20 minutes, then each one done in sequence for about 5 minutes each for a total of about 30 minutes of practice. I found that what people said about not learning tai chi from a book, and needing a teacher is true... he corrected our form before we developed bad habits.

[steve]

That's pretty much what I thought it is... working up to doing one position at a time properly for 20 minutes, which I read can take a few weeks at least. Then moving on to the next one, rinse repeat until the positions can each be held for 20 minutes, then each one done in sequence for about 5 minutes each for a total of about 30 minutes of practice. I found that what people said about not learning tai chi from a book, and needing a teacher is true... he corrected our form before we developed bad habits.

 

I teach students to start with a simple, basic standing practice and stick with the one posture for a very long time.

Usually 6 months to a year. Most are able to build up to standing for 30 - 60 minutes. That is when real learning occurs.

Over time, different postures will begin to manifest naturally.

I don't introduce multiple postures early on, too confusing for the beginner.

Internal training is all about depth, not breadth.

[Vitalii]

About Zhan Zhuang ...

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/25395-what-does-standing-meditation-do-tofor-you/?p=440276

[Jainarayan]

I would not be looking to branch out into neidan, I have a different spiritual path which will take me (I hope!) to the Tao/Brahman. For now I'm more interested in the strength, stamina and discipline for the standing meditation; regulating qi; calming my mind and having control over myself. That's the angle I'm coming from. So if it's not a bother, please keep hitting me with opinions and advice.

[ChiDragon]

That's what it seems like to people who only read about it.

And to ChiDragon -

 

That was one of your preconceived ideas; don't you think......??? Let me go find my video of show you....!!! brb.

 

 

Edited to add:

@mYTHmAKER....

Do you remember where is my video about ZZ that you had asked me to post for you.....??? The one you had said that I was not relex enough in my ZZ stance.

Edited July 26, 2013 by ChiDragon

[kevin_wallbridge]

I have heard Wong Kew Kit (sp?) say there are risks for doing zz for some people, if you gather a lot of energy in a closed up conflicted system then it isn't always productive.

 

"Zhan Zhuang is a powerful exercise, and is best done under supervision. Those who practice wrongly and still persist on, may vomit blood, have deformed bodily structure, or insidiously damaged internal organs. There are usually warning signs for wrong practice, such as discomfort, pain and nervousness."

 

-Wong Kiew Kit

 

I've been doing standing practices for 20 years.

 

Vomiting blood? Insidiously damaged internal organs? If that is happening then you are up to some pretty crazy stuff in your standing. No offence to Wong Kiew Kit, yet I find the warning almost histrionic. In my experience in the fire-chasing world of Qigong standing is one of the safest things we can get up to, especially if you are JUST STANDING.

 

Rather than "deforming body structure" standing tends to align it. Direct supervision and transmission is by far the best, but if you want to try a basic standing routine, like Lam Kamchuen's "The Way of Energy," how wrong could you go? The biggest risk is that you start to do things with your head, like worry about your energy or whether or not your Dantian is filling up. If you can spend 10 min a day just feeling the weight of your flesh hanging from your bones your whole world will change with a deep authentic experience that all the visualization in the world can't bring.

 

I often tell my students when they begin to stand to be aware of how they are arriving into the posture once they begin. Say "embrace the tree" a simple classic easy Zhanzhuang. Get calm and relaxed settle the breath and then sink into your legs and allow the arms to wrap like you are holding a big ball. As you arrive at the posture notice the feeling of settling in.... now keep paying attention to the sense of settling in for the next ten minutes. Don't ever really get there or your mind will become bored and start looking for something to do, if it drifts away into monkey thought you simply need to arrive again. I promise, you will not vomit blood because of this.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cat