[Tantra] What female action is of "equal value" to a men's ejaculation? In erms of Qi-loss and rebalance through the woman

[4bsolute]

Dear ones,

 

I have a simple question regarding tantric practices. I know from my own experience how "damaging" Sex can be when you practice meditation, that it basicly shuts all spiritual growth down for a period of time.

 

Since I have fully witnessed the detrimental effects if - Sex in the usual way is truely over for me. This has become a no-brainer, period.

 

But what when the time comes and life gives us a partner? Not as a test, more as a loving gift. How can we then interact in sexuality without losing (too much) Qi?

 

I have heard that when a couple is in a loving relationship and has intercourse, which is then be practiced from a point of love and not from a point of manipulation or self-interest, then this can bring both into balance and neither of them loses anything. Is this true?

 

I am looking for information of what a female partner can do to either quickly rebalance the man's Qi or at best: Not even drain him.

 

Please feel free to share your life experience regarding this topic

 

Kind regards,

newbie warden of life force energy.

Edited May 27, 2013 by 4bsolute

[Vmarco]

The is no greater obstacle to tantric practices and experience more damaging to Chi, than beliefs,...especially religious beliefs. Lifetimes of seman retention and other physical practices are in vain if done while being filtered through belief systems.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Do not go about worshipping deities and religious institutions as the source of the subtle truth. To do so is to place intermediaries between yourself and source, and to make youself a beggar who looks outside for a treasure that is hidden inside his own breast. If you want to worship the Tao, first discover it in your own heart…. the world's religions serve only to strengthen attachments to false concepts such as self and other, life and death, heaven and earth, and so on.”

[thetaoiseasy]

..

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[4bsolute]

 

The is no greater obstacle to tantric practices and experience more damaging to Chi, than beliefs,...especially religious beliefs. Lifetimes of seman retention and other physical practices are in vain if done while being filtered through belief systems.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Do not go about worshipping deities and religious institutions as the source of the subtle truth. To do so is to place intermediaries between yourself and source, and to make youself a beggar who looks outside for a treasure that is hidden inside his own breast. If you want to worship the Tao, first discover it in your own heart…. the world's religions serve only to strengthen attachments to false concepts such as self and other, life and death, heaven and earth, and so on.”

 

Oh yes, no doubt. I am not involved in any religious practice. But good that you have mentioned it anyway. I even stated that I made my own experience with it. I'm not demonizing Sex, I have just witnessed of what it does to me and that is:

 

I am not able to practice meditation for at least the next two days, because my back and shoulderblades hurt. Sitting upright is requires an unusual high amount of energy that is normaly done without any effort, for me. And then we have falling asleep rather than being concentrated. And the worst thing is, I am not getting into any deeper and meaningful trance for up to one week. Not to speak of what would be here already if I did not have Sex last weekend.

 

Oh well, but it's a learning and time is obsolete, yes.

 

So I am still interested what a woman can do, to do "her part" in exchanging creative energies during the act anyone?

Edited May 27, 2013 by 4bsolute

[Cheshire Cat]

To deal with this issue, you should clarify :

1) what you want from meditation

2) how important it is to you in respect to other things

[宁]

what she gives you in return is a child, and the chanse of growing you up into a full-blown adult during the 9 months of pregnancy - that's because it usually takes that long for it to sink in; thick skulled men, we are

 

before you ask questions like this, think how different was people's life when these techniques first came to be

[Wells]

bad, but inevitable: period

worse, but avoidable: pregnancy

[Jeff]

Hi 4bsolute,

 

A woman (in love and) experienced in tantric techniques can transmute the sexual energy into higher heart/love energy and send it back to you at the heart level. Rather than being depleting, a joint energy loop of love and purification can be created.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

[Sloppy Zhang]

I highly recommend you get B.K Frantzis' book "Taoist Sexual Meditation."

 

It talks about all of these topics and more from the perspective of the water method of Taoist meditation.

 

First and foremost, sex can be a powerful way to feel energy not only of yourself, but of your partner. When you get the sexual energy flowing from both partners circulating back and forth, it gives you a huge multiplier to your practice, because you can bounce energy of of each other.

 

He does say that conventional sex as most people understand it can be draining and shocking to the system, mostly because people practice it from a place of fundamental numbness and closed down-ness. He talks about how most people (men and women) experience a "tension orgasm". Yes, orgasm will relax you, but that's because your body has been tense (and therefore numb for so long) that it shuts down your body, so of course any relaxation is going to feel awesome, but it's also going to shock your system.

 

So he goes into techniques for sex that is not shocking.

 

Now, with respect to energy loss, he pretty much states flat out that men are energetic losers, and women are energetic gainers.

 

In conventional sex, and even in most energetic sex, men give up the energy, and women receive it. They are naturally yin, men are naturally yang.

 

Now if men nurture and develop their yin qualities, and women nurture and develop their yang qualities, then women can refine and pass energy back to the man, in which case he'll even out.

 

When it comes to masturbation, men are pretty much at a loss whenever they do it, and women, in the best case, can gain knowledge of their body as they open up through orgasm, opening and circulating through channels, and at worse case don't lose anything.

 

In sex, for men, the best case they break even (get energy from a partner who has developed her yang) and at worse case lose energy (even if they have cultivated yin, if their partner can't project yang, they aren't getting anything back, it takes two to tango).

 

At least, that was my understanding.

 

It kinda stuck out to me because maybe I was expecting not to be (as a guy) such a loser in the energetic exchange process. Maybe I was expecting some loophole (maybe so I could have an excuse to masturbate and fuck more ) But I didn't get it.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[hydrogen]

I highly recommend you get B.K Frantzis' book "Taoist Sexual Meditation."

 

:

:

 

When it comes to masturbation, men are pretty much at a loss whenever they do it, and women, in the best case, can gain knowledge of their body as they open up through orgasm, opening and circulating through channels, and at worse case don't lose anything.

 

The "Taoist Sexual Meditaion" didn't teach you how to mastrubate correctly?

 

If so, that's a book in question.

 

Why can't a guy "gain knowledge of their body as they open up through orgasm, opening and circulating through channels" via masturbation?

[Cheshire Cat]

The "Taoist Sexual Meditaion" didn't teach you how to mastrubate correctly?

 

If so, that's a book in question.

 

Why can't a guy "gain knowledge of their body as they open up through orgasm, opening and circulating through channels" via masturbation?

 

Because, according to classical daoist alchemical thinking, women reabsorb back much of the fluids produced in masturbation.

[Sloppy Zhang]

The "Taoist Sexual Meditaion" didn't teach you how to mastrubate correctly?

 

If so, that's a book in question.

 

Why can't a guy "gain knowledge of their body as they open up through orgasm, opening and circulating through channels" via masturbation?

 

He can, and does, and Frantzis does teach those techniques (he also writes about them in the book "The Great Stillness."

 

But at some level there is an energetic loss, as man projects the energy out.

 

You can still open channels, learn how energy circulates, feel where blockages are, and find what works for you and what doesn't work for you. But you are expending energy in a way that women just do not.

 

You can mitigate the loss, or ensure that the loss is feeding into something that's useful. You may even begin to cultivate techniques for an energizing orgasm which you can then practice with a partner. But it just isn't going to be at the same level (in terms of the self absorption of the energy) as what women can naturally do with their orgasms.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[Vmarco]

A woman (in love and) experienced in tantric techniques can transmute the sexual energy into higher heart/love energy and send it back to you at the heart level. Rather than being depleting, a joint energy loop of love and purification can be created.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

 

I understand that this is a consensus among many, however I have doubts,...not only because I have not experienced it, but after some 40 years of thoughtful practice, I've concluded that only two women in heartful harmony with each other, are able to transmutate the sexual energy of a willing male partner.

 

Most women, and males, look upon 3 (w/w/m) as immoral, or a male fantasy reserved for the wealthy or largely endowed. Many women fill that they should have 2 male partners,...little realizing that 2 male partners within any given 7 months is detrimental to a woman's body and spirituality, as male sperm always, as a matter of uncontrolable inherent function, seeks supremacy over other male sperm.

 

A female has a more naturally, emotional orgasmic flow,...however, this flow is obscured because of beliefs, and thus seldom developed,...or better said,...uncovered.

 

On a physical, animalistic level, sex is about making babies. I readily observe the human animal everytime I see a pregnant woman. There are other levels of sexual behavior,...and to understand that, keep in mind always, that everything that has energy is sex,...everything in the phenomenal world is sexual,...Yin/Yang. But don't mistake Yin/Yang as 1 female/1 male. Every physical substance depends on a Law of Three,...and that Law is not 2 males and 1 female.

 

If a woman wants to permeate herself in her animalistic nature (which most do), they seek a sperm mate to provide a particular child, and a level of financial security, so her and her children can have an adequate physical life. If a woman wants to permeate herself in her spiritual nature (which most don't), they will be open to a male who pursues the same goal,...both realizing they cannot cling to a notion of "death do us part," as animalistic people (what are called the morally upstanding)do.

 

Speaking of morality,...I love the following quote from a 20th century Tantric:

 

“Morality can only be imposed from without when we are asleep. It can only be pseudo, false, a façade, it cannot become your real being…morality is bound to be nothing but a deep suppression. You cannot do anything while asleep; you can only suppress. And through morality, you will become false. You will not be a person, but simply a “persona”—just a pseudo-entity. . . . Only a dishonest person can be moral.”

[三江源]

it's not what she does for you or how she makes you feel that somehow rebalances your energy. it's what you do for her and how you make her feel that determines your own energy loss or gain -- the burden is on you, and your relationship together. if you make her feel love, you will gain a good type of energy. and the only way to make her feel love is to love her. without genuine love and appreciation for the woman, you will just collect a type of physical energy that will make your sex drive harder to handle and hinder your chance for successful cultivation. i come from the school that you must love a woman and to have cultivated to higher levels before you can make use of tantric techniques. otherwise, all you collect is dirty physical energy wrought from mechanical behavior-- it will damage you spiritually. on the other hand, if your channels are open and you're engaged in a genuine loving relationship, ejaculation is not that big of an energy loss. that is not the case for most people. i may sound a bit prude and traditional, but just sharing my experience.

I love when you come into threads, taoiseasy. Thankyou. You dont sound at all prude, whatsoever, you sound like truth.

[Cheshire Cat]

If a woman wants to permeate herself in her animalistic nature (which most do), they seek a sperm mate to provide a particular child, and a level of financial security, so her and her children can have an adequate physical life. If a woman wants to permeate herself in her spiritual nature (which most don't), they will be open to a male who pursues the same goal,...both realizing they cannot cling to a notion of "death do us part," as animalistic people (what are called the morally upstanding)do.

 

This woman

 

and

 

this guy

 

 

They live together in the batcave

[Jeff]

 

I understand that this is a consensus among many, however I have doubts,...not only because I have not experienced it, but after some 40 years of thoughtful practice, I've concluded that only two women in heartful harmony with each other, are able to transmutate the sexual energy of a willing male partner.

 

Most women, and males, look upon 3 (w/w/m) as immoral, or a male fantasy reserved for the wealthy or largely endowed. Many women fill that they should have 2 male partners,...little realizing that 2 male partners within any given 7 months is detrimental to a woman's body and spirituality, as male sperm always, as a matter of uncontrolable inherent function, seeks supremacy over other male sperm.

 

A female has a more naturally, emotional orgasmic flow,...however, this flow is obscured because of beliefs, and thus seldom developed,...or better said,...uncovered.

 

On a physical, animalistic level, sex is about making babies. I readily observe the human animal everytime I see a pregnant woman. There are other levels of sexual behavior,...and to understand that, keep in mind always, that everything that has energy is sex,...everything in the phenomenal world is sexual,...Yin/Yang. But don't mistake Yin/Yang as 1 female/1 male. Every physical substance depends on a Law of Three,...and that Law is not 2 males and 1 female.

 

If a woman wants to permeate herself in her animalistic nature (which most do), they seek a sperm mate to provide a particular child, and a level of financial security, so her and her children can have an adequate physical life. If a woman wants to permeate herself in her spiritual nature (which most don't), they will be open to a male who pursues the same goal,...both realizing they cannot cling to a notion of "death do us part," as animalistic people (what are called the morally upstanding)do.

 

Speaking of morality,...I love the following quote from a 20th century Tantric:

 

“Morality can only be imposed from without when we are asleep. It can only be pseudo, false, a façade, it cannot become your real being…morality is bound to be nothing but a deep suppression. You cannot do anything while asleep; you can only suppress. And through morality, you will become false. You will not be a person, but simply a “persona”—just a pseudo-entity. . . . Only a dishonest person can be moral.”

Hi Vmarco,

 

My experience has been different. I personally know four spiritually advanced women who have the ability to share in the energy loop. Also, sharing in such a loop is extremely intimate, and rather than just sex, it is more like a shared oneness. I do not see how the energy flows would be possible as part of a threesome.

 

Regards, Jeff

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[4bsolute]

Hi 4bsolute,

 

A woman (in love and) experienced in tantric techniques can transmute the sexual energy into higher heart/love energy and send it back to you at the heart level. Rather than being depleting, a joint energy loop of love and purification can be created.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

 

Thank you Jeff! Many blessings.