The Tao of Dying

[sree]

Enjoying the thread. This seems appropriate to share now.

 

My wife died for a little under two minutes about 20 years ago.

She fell heels over head down a 20ft staircase and fractured her spine in two places.

She was, at the time a pretty staunch materialist.

 

You remembered when she left to the minute? How long were you married?

 

Her experience on the other side was utter bliss. No tunnel, but a grey bliss-filled light surrounded her. Enveloped her.

She said no other experience in her life has felt so right, so completely saturated with love and completion.

As I revived her and she could start to hear my voice, she told me later, she was so pissed off at me.

"Stop talking, would you?! Just shut up I'm fine!"

 

She still has no interest in any formal religions (other than to discuss concepts philosophically), but her materialist paradigm was shattered and her old conceptions about the nature of life and death were opened up exponentially. For her there is no fear of death and no worry.

 

What a gift she received that day.

 

 

I am losing you here. You are speaking of her in the present tense. Is she still communicating with you?

[sree]

Funny because gentlewind has found such a terrific accommodation to his situation, and you and I suffer because of our response to his situation. Because I also suffered when I read of gentlewinds situation. I did. I really baulked and blanched and felt all the avoidance and fear rise in me. But gentlewind himself is doing brilliantly, with his dragon, he is riding it. We are standing looking at his dragon and quaking in our boots. I'm so attached to living, mainly because I dont want to inflict grief on anyone close to me, by leaving them in a way which will scare them.

 

 

Thanks for the confession. People are terrified of cancer. A woman I met in Dublin told me about her double mastectomy just last year before Angelina Jolie recently came out about her own breasts removal. It was an excruciating process, she said. Three drains on each side into pouches after the operation. The breasts reconstruction was just as painful. Yet, women would rather face all that suffering to avoid cancer.

 

Granted, gentlewind is facing up to a horrid situation remarkably well. But we are missing the crucial point. Wounded warriors in America are running around with prostethics and bravely living out their lives on track chairs. Surely, they should be commended too. But is the Tao of living about a life free from physical torture or is it about riding our dragons with mutilated and diseased bodies?

 

The best I can do is follow the truth that there is no death. Gentlewind has twigged it. The best I can do is teach those close to me that there is no death, so that no fear will weigh us down.

What is gentlewind going through.. looking death in the face and seeing through it? I dont want to presume that is what he is saying, all I can say is that how I am hearing it.

Buddha wants us to be free.

Getting unhooked from the illusion is freedom, isnt it.

 

Dropping all the baggage.

 

 

 

What do you mean when you say that Gentlewind has twigged it? Let's not forget his support system twigging it too. Care-givers and tax-payers are enabling the twigging in first-world societies where riding the dragon is an expensive affair. In America, 25% of seniors are driven into bankruptcy and losing their homes due to medical expenses from all that twigging. The situation gets really bad in third world countries where the sick are left to twig on their own.

 

I think animals are the true heroes. No twigging. No dragon riding. Just the Tao of dying. Is that better?

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[xor]

Funny because gentlewind has found such a terrific accommodation to his situation, and you and I suffer because of our response to his situation. Because I also suffered when I read of gentlewinds situation. I did. I really baulked and blanched and felt all the avoidance and fear rise in me. But gentlewind himself is doing brilliantly, with his dragon, he is riding it.

 

That's interesting. I've enjoyed gentlewind's posts from the start, never felt I should avoid any of it.

 

Long time ago I was suffering from existentialist depression but otherwise in good health. My friend was taking chemo for his cancer. I was sorry for him and that annoyed him. He told me that he'd rather fight his cancer than depression and he made me realize he was the lucky one, beating my jack high with his dead man's hand. It was a breakthrough for me, it's better to suffer in body than in spirit... and never feel sorry for someone who's content.

[sree]

Twigging alone without medical help.. I have thought about that a lot. I have thought of how it was before medicine became the way it is now, how one would have to suffer until death came.

 

I don't think that it is helpful to imagine how - when our time comes - to face death without medical help. It would be willful and the more you think, the more fearful the whole affair becomes. Before medicine was the shaman and his rituals. It doesn't get scarier than that.

 

Something has to happen inside oneself, something creative has to happen, for one to shift in relation to the overhwelming situation.

 

Yes, I think so. But I am not talking about how to deal with Lord Yama and his fearsome claws. I am not talking about facing the Grim Reaper. If that guy comes knocking, it's game over for us. That is when the fear of death and the unholy mess of dying begins.

 

Nothing stays the same, this is the only rule of life.

 

The extreme surprise of overwhelming pain takes you to a different place.

 

To stay present would be a challenge. One might not choose to do so. Consciousness can check out while the body functions.

 

Dying is hardly ever quick and clean. The best scenario is feeling tired and taking a nap never to wake up again. Chances are, it's going to be messy and drawn out. Getting knocked out by excruciating pain would be a blessing. At some point, the pain from cancer cannot be masked by painkillers but you suffer on. Then there are the weeping wounds of diabetes where you watch your feet rot away till it gets so bad that your legs have to be amputated. Next phase of torture is wheelchair misery, bedsores and end-stage renal disease. Nobody wants to think about this.

 

The tao of dying ... is there only a conscious tao of dying? Do we speak of dying in ignorance and fear, or dying having some notion of what is going on.. is it all to be lumped together?

 

Is it like sex, or the food we eat.... universal experiences, experienced to different degrees and happening in unique ways.

 

You are asking great questions. Do you know the brilliant Steve Jobs never found the answers? Yet, he was into the spirituality of India and Zen Buddhism from his late teens till he died. He was searching more desperately for the answers when they found cancer in his pancreas all the way to his eventual death a few years later. I mention this to give us a heads up. Looking for the answers is not a cake walk. And I don't believe that it is that can be done on your own. Steve Jobs could never even invent the iPhone on his own. He needed a team of top-notch engineers. To find the Tao of dying is a much bigger deal.

 

You mentioned that there is nothing to fear than fear itself. I feel that the Tao of dying needs to side-step the messy process of dying - including the fear of death itself. We need A-players for this venture to find the answers. Are you in? Do you want to dent the universe?

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[sree]

The messy process has to be one of the times when the change of consciousness occurs, doesnt it?

 

You mean a transformation in consciousness that releases you from struggling against the messy process of dying?

 

We would have to look at our rotting feet and love them.

 

As in the way we look at and love the setting sun and the turning leaves in the cycle of life?

 

Thankyou for making this clear to me. I have looked at the reddened swollen legs of elderly people walking in front of me on the street and gone weak at the knees at the prospect of this.

 

Reddened swollen legs are the price you pay for longevity.

 

The transformation of decay on us has to be something that we can love.

 

What do you mean by "us"?

 

We have to get to the stage of the Buddha who gazes at the putrefying corpse of a dead dog in front of him and says 'nice tail'.

 

Can the dog ever die? Does the putrefying corpse has a connection with the dog? The association between the two might be an illusion. Your Buddha could be confused.

 

I heard that another Buddha was asked whether a child who had grown to be a man, was he the same child or another. And that Buddha answered:"He is neither the same child nor another."

[silent thunder]

You remembered when she left to the minute? How long were you married?

 

We've been married since 1989.

I don't recall the minute of the day (it was late afternoon), but vividly recall the 2 minutes she had no pulse and was not breathing.

I revived her, (trained in CPR). Boy was she pissed when I brought her back!

 

 

I am losing you here. You are speaking of her in the present tense. Is she still communicating with you?

 

She made a full recovery. Broke her T-7 and her Coccyx. Her physical therapy consisted of yoga and ecstatic dance.

She's sitting here next to me eating spicy shrimp curry. Birth and death are yin and yang. One defines the other, like light and shadow, beautiful and ugly.

 

I've experienced consciousness free of the body on a few occasions; so even though I'm attached to my body and favor it as a really awesome multi-dimensional sensory suit, and I have no whim to throw it away...

 

I'm not tied to it too intensely as my experience of my essence lies beyond form. By no means do I think I understand death, I just find it to be as natural as birth, so therefore nothing to fear. Now, the manner in which I pass might not be very pleasant from a certain perspective, but reality tunnels/paradigms and perspectives all get radically altered when the focus of self separates from the body process.

[gentlewind]

I am not blaming you. It is not you that people run away from. It is the cancer situation that scare people off. Death and disease are not attractive to people in this world. Sick people, dying people and dead people in coffins, funerals and cemeteries are bad stuff that other people veer away from unless they are stuck with it as in the case of family members.

 

A forum is pretty anonymous sree, its face to face where folk often are at a loss of what to say. Here there are no awkward moments, folk can choose to post or not for whatever reason. Ease back the throttle sree ! As for my wonderful association with cancer, it is based on Love; on each seperate occasion I Loved my cancer, no fear no blame. I live each day knowing cancer is a heartbeat away, or that a stumble to the ground may result in a tumor. This is my Life and I Love my Life, even the scar tissue and wire mesh wall in my abdomen. I Love my S Pouch who occupies most of my time. Through cancer I have grown so much and deleted unwanted downloads. I am patient, more Loving than ever, I laugh a lot and I try to help others. Reality never loses when we argue with it - 100% success rate has reality. We argue with reality we can become depressed, angry, ill and so on.

Death can be beautiful in the case of a long suffering loved one being released from pain with a smile on their lips. Each case is different. A lot of people are open to discussing death than ever before. A positive change of consciousness.

Give a link to a forum where people enjoy talking about death.

 

google paranormal forums/death.

Are you enjoying life? I don't have a S pouch, I don't have nerve pain in my neck, I don't have arthritis in my hands, I don't have cancer nor 15 other health problems. In fact, I never had a headache or been ill for as long as I can remember. I am in perfect health and in peak physical condition. Yet, I am not enjoying life because you have a diseased body, because your poor wife have to bear the burden of having to tend to you, because that poor guy had to be hacked to death in Woolwich, I am not happy because I do not know why I exist to bear witness to all these human miseries. I could look at the moon or distract myself with a tart but I am unable to. I am drawn to your misery even thought you are out to lunch over your situation.

My wife is also ill, she has fibromalgia and digestive problems. We look after one another. But I am esctatic sree, truly I am - and its not the heavy duty painkillers !

We battle with the mind. Once that is defeated then all is One. Look closely at why you are not happy - look at your mind sree, its running the show ! Question your mind and every thought - its amazing !

Lust is a deadly sin. Chapter 12 tells explains why I see a dangerous tart and you see a harmless pretty woman. I see a snake and you see a rope.

If you allow it too. You choose to engage it.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[thelerner]

My wife is also ill, she has fibromalgia and digestive problems. We look after one another. But I am esctatic sree, truly I am - and its not the heavy duty painkillers !

We battle with the mind. Once that is defeated then all is One. Look closely at why you are not happy - look at your mind sree, its running the show ! Question your mind and every thought - its amazing !

To me at least, these words answer the question of the Tao of Living and Dying. From the beautiful mundane 'We look after one another' to the sublime, through it all 'I am ecstatic'. The answer presented- 'battle the mind, once it's defeated then all is One'. The How-'Look at the your mind, Question your mind and every thought. Who's running the show?'

 

Tao of Life & Death, its all there. All we have to do is practice.

Thank you Gentlewind.

Edited May 26, 2013 by thelerner

[sree]

A forum is pretty anonymous sree, its face to face where folk often are at a loss of what to say. Here there are no awkward moments, folk can choose to post or not for whatever reason. Ease back the throttle sree ! As for my wonderful association with cancer, it is based on Love; on each seperate occasion I Loved my cancer, no fear no blame. I live each day knowing cancer is a heartbeat away, or that a stumble to the ground may result in a tumor. This is my Life and I Love my Life, even the scar tissue and wire mesh wall in my abdomen. I Love my S Pouch who occupies most of my time. Through cancer I have grown so much and deleted unwanted downloads. I am patient, more Loving than ever, I laugh a lot and I try to help others. Reality never loses when we argue with it - 100% success rate has reality. We argue with reality we can become depressed, angry, ill and so on.

Death can be beautiful in the case of a long suffering loved one being released from pain with a smile on their lips. Each case is different. A lot of people are open to discussing death than ever before. A positive change of consciousness.

 

Seems to me that you have found a way to handle physical suffering. Remarkable as your way to deal with dying and death may seem, I would rather find another way. My instincts tell me that the right way is to protect the body from harm and the mind absolutely secure. Developing a positive mental attitude to keep laughing in the face of bodily disintegration is above my pay grade in this incarnation. For this life, I will attempt the Buddha's way to seek the Tao of dying.

 

google paranormal forums/death.

 

I checked this out. They are talking about ghosts.

 

My wife is also ill, she has fibromalgia and digestive problems. We look after one another. But I am esctatic sree, truly I am - and its not the heavy duty painkillers !

 

I believe you.

 

We battle with the mind. Once that is defeated then all is One. Look closely at why you are not happy - look at your mind sree, its running the show ! Question your mind and every thought - its amazing !

If you allow it too. You choose to engage it.

 

Just as you choose to be happy in the face of pain, I choose to be sad at the sight of human suffering. Not everyone can psyche himself up to face physical trauma like Samurai warriors. What about the babies too young to even know that they are dying from mortal wounds, small children suffering the ravages of AIDS, and old people tortured by the fear of death? It's not just about me that I am seeking the Tao of dying.

Edited May 26, 2013 by sree

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[gentlewind]

Seems to me that you have found a way to handle physical suffering. Remarkable as your way to deal with dying and death may seem, I would rather find another way. My instincts tell me that the right way is to protect the body from harm and the mind absolutely secure. Developing a positive mental attitude to keep laughing in the face of bodily disintegration is above my pay grade in this incarnation. For this life, I will attempt the Buddha's way to seek the Tao of dying.

What I have found sree is what I've been seeking all my (current) Life, and its closer than a heartbeat. I encourage folk to look within, to spend some time going within. I am here having a physical experience with all the challenges that Life bestows upon me, I have agreed to this in what some call a Soul Agreement, I am both inside my physical body and outside of it. You see when you seek you travel further and further away from YOU. This is why I don't like religion and call it mind control, because it takes away your authenticity; and you end up living a lie. I have come across some frighteningly mind controlled religious people who spew forth hatred, and I have met ecstatically happy people who live their lives naturally without any diversions. But where you are in your Life right at this moment is the perfect place for you to be for you have written the script.

It isn't about developing a positive mental attitude sree - much easier than that, as PMA takes work and practice; its knowing your true self. You are a Conscious Being occupying a flesh vehicle. It is the conditioning of the Mind which we are all prisoners to. I am perfect. I am Love. You have chosen a different approach and in doing so have put limitations upon yourself - 'above my pay grade in this incarnation', you write the script sree. Your mind is in control. Question everything, every thought that enters your mind, every emotion and every feeling; you are not your Mind, not your thoughts, not your emotions and not your feelings - and not your body.

I occasionally meditate and visualize my death, say at least twice a week. I want to make my bungy jump perfect ! Their is no fear of dying, never has been for me. Other people attach that labels to themselves and reveal how lost they are, others choose religion as a crutch to avoid the Mystery of death. Death is not a Mystery to me its a Beautiful Friend.

I checked this out. They are talking about ghosts.

 

 

I believe you.

Death is no longer the taboo it once was. Even on a UFO forum there is an active thread about death !

Just as you choose to be happy in the face of pain, I choose to be sad at the sight of human suffering. Not everyone can psyche himself up to face physical trauma like Samurai warriors. What about the babies too young to even know that they are dying from mortal wounds, small children suffering the ravages of AIDS, and old people tortured by the fear of death? It's not just about me that I am seeking the Tao of dying.

sree my natural state is that of Love, as is true of everyone. I am happy sree, that is my natural state. Its not about choosing but about 'knowing thyself', going within and just being - their is nothing to do. Its difficult to put in words, I can only point. But we are all eternal and infinite beings - we are pure consciousness. When you see Life from this Truth then the madness we see is sucked out of Life's happenings.

Everything is perfect. It is our attachments to events and people which corrupt our true essence, it is the years of conditioning we are subjected to. Time to peel away the layers of conditioning. Babies dying is 'what is', and is perfect because this is where we are as a species; yes suffering appears to be everywhere - and it is each one of us who has contributed to this, thats why I say it is perfect. Don't confuse what I am saying sree - but see how each one of us is responsible by what we do/don't do. Sounds crazy to a lot of folk, sounds heartless even. But Reality cannot be argued with because it always wins !

We can create a reality were suffering ceases - we can. But we currently live according to the System, we go to school and are indoctrinated. We then, most of us, do a job we dislike. We drown in a sea of Illusion.

For example the movie Avatar cost $237 million. How many starving babies would that feed ? This is only one example of how far we are from being a caring species, when such vast amounts of money can be found for entertainment and not for those who are starving and suffering. The film, music and sports industries are just three examples of where our responsibilities lie, shall we keep on feeding the Psychopathic Juggernaut by paying to see the latest Hollywood release etc.

Don't moan at the state of the world because its perfect - its how we want it. We are the scriptwriters.

Change can, and will happen. I believe their will be a revolution - of consciouness. A tipping point is on the horizon, but if we remain in our sleepwalking state.........................we are the scriptwriters, what page are you on ?

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

The interview was about a spiritual subject. Do you think the interviewer was appropriately attired even if the dress was adjusted? You put on riding gear for riding, swimsuit for swimming,

Conditioning at its finest sree ! Wear this for that and wear that for this ! The lady was perfectly attired, but your mind is telling you different due to its conditioning. I saw a pretty lady. Enjoyed the interview.

 

I'd rather swim naked - perfect attire

 

Where you are is perfect sree, because it is what you have written as scriptwriter. Reality, can't be argued with.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

this was a nice interview to watch. thankyou. Please post more of your favourites, gentlewind. The interviewer was very sweet.. my hunch is that she was around only guys during the filming and not one of them had the nerve to tell her that her dress needed a bit of adjustment on one side. I loved hearing about the experience of the man who drowned, that was very moving and heartening and helped me feel better about family that have died.

Hi cat, I shall post a few more videos, the next one is PMH Atwater who herself has had three NDE's and is an author on the subject.

 

 

 

Some new videos

 

 

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

What so funny, Cat? I am really fearful of gentlewind's bodily situation. The Buddha was too. He was in perfect physical condition but on seeing the old, the sick and the dying, he was so upset that he gave us his perfect life to seek freedom from ever having to face what gentlewind is going through. Is your understanding of the Buddha story not the same as mine?

No need to be fearful of my health situation sree, I am not THAT! My Consciousness is ecstatic. My body is perfect because it is 'what is'. I could shout and scream at the apparent unfairness of this physical status - it would only pull me further down into the abyss which would of my making. I am not this physical body - YIPPEE !!!

I am glad you have joined us in this conversation.

Yes ! Cat, tis nice and refreshing to have you here, and Silent Thunder too.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

 

BLESSINGS to EVERYONE !!!

[sree]

We've been married since 1989.

I don't recall the minute of the day (it was late afternoon), but vividly recall the 2 minutes she had no pulse and was not breathing.

I revived her, (trained in CPR). Boy was she pissed when I brought her back!

 

Married 24 years. And you revived her about 20 years ago after her fall. That was about 4 years after you guys married. She must have been a young and pretty bird back then. I can understand why you didn't want to let her go. But why was she pissed. Four years with you and she would rather die already? You must have been a bad boy.

 

Anyway, 24 years together speaks well of you. I am glad you brought her back.

 

She made a full recovery. Broke her T-7 and her Coccyx. Her physical therapy consisted of yoga and ecstatic dance.

She's sitting here next to me eating spicy shrimp curry. Birth and death are yin and yang. One defines the other, like light and shadow, beautiful and ugly.

 

Spicy shrimp curry? You sound Chinese in a happy home with a good wife. Was it an arranged marriage according to Taoist horoscope?

 

I've experienced consciousness free of the body on a few occasions; so even though I'm attached to my body and favor it as a really awesome multi-dimensional sensory suit, and I have no whim to throw it away...

 

Can you share some details of your out-of-body experiences? Some of us here have assumed that there is no division between spirit and body.

 

I'm not tied to it too intensely as my experience of my essence lies beyond form. By no means do I think I understand death, I just find it to be as natural as birth, so therefore nothing to fear. Now, the manner in which I pass might not be very pleasant from a certain perspective, but reality tunnels/paradigms and perspectives all get radically altered when the focus of self separates from the body process.

 

Very interesting take you have here. Death of the body is as natural as its birth. This is why I see no value in raising the dead as told in the Jesus story. It is not consistent with my perception of wise conduct. I am more interested in the "death" of the person, this consciousness of reality.

 

You see the body as a multi-dimesional sensory suit. How does it work (as you understand it)?

[Wu Ming Jen]

Heading north and heading south.When we head south we turn our back on the north. When we head north we turn our back on the south. What does this have to do with dying,lets say life is positive and death is negative in a very conditioned way of thinking. Few are brave enough to turn around and head back into the gate of life.

 

We need to make room for birth and give up this temporary body called death.Birth and death are fused together. Only the weak will challenge natures process and complain no matter what challenges we may face in the process. When we are no longer separate from the process there is great peace and freedom involved and we have the strength to meet all things in life.

 

When we have this strength death will run away scared of having no power over us.Fear is fearful of something now that is amazing power not for just mere mortals.

[silent thunder]

Married 24 years. And you revived her about 20 years ago after her fall. That was about 4 years after you guys married. She must have been a young and pretty bird back then. I can understand why you didn't want to let her go. But why was she pissed. Four years with you and she would rather die already? You must have been a bad boy.

 

I still give her shit about that from time to time, that she'd rather fly around the ethers than be with me? lol

 

But it's amazing, when I bring it up, she gets this look as the sense memory kicks in and her eyes go out of focus and she's sort of transported back into that experience. It always brings her peace.

 

Anyway, 24 years together speaks well of you. I am glad you brought her back.

Me too my friend and thank you. If not for her, I wonder how long some of my healing would have taken or what ways I would have had to walk to find it, if ever.

 

Spicy shrimp curry? You sound Chinese in a happy home with a good wife. Was it an arranged marriage according to Taoist horoscope?

 

We are students of the world and are both lovingly obsessed with other cultures and customs. Food, art, music, etc.

I'm Norwegian by ancestry, American by birth and Minnesotan by culture.

She's Scottish/German by ancestry, Northern German by culture.

 

Can you share some details of your out-of-body experiences? Some of us here have assumed that there is no division between spirit and body.

I've got one I could share quickly, the others are more involved.

 

My first experience was when I was around 4 years old, I was having a nightmare:

 

(in it, I was riding down the stairs in our house on my butt, thump-thump-thump, like I loved to do... then I would crawl up the stairs and do it again. Only the last time I rode down and turned to my left, from behind the water heater, came a hooded man holding an axe... thank you very little sub-conscious... So now I was desperately trying to get away from the terror, crawling up the stairs when I slip and start to slide back down. As I'm slipping down the stairs, I can feel the carpet under my hands and hear the steps behind me, as I reach the bottom and my terror spiked, suddenly everything changed... )

 

I was hovering above a small boy with red hair sleeping in his blue bed. And I thought "well this is odd" all terror vanished in surprise. Then as I settled into the experience of hovering I realized that I was looking at myself and thought 'that's not right' and snapped back into myself and woke up.

 

 

Very interesting take you have here. Death of the body is as natural as its birth. This is why I see no value in raising the dead as told in the Jesus story. It is not consistent with my perception of wise conduct. I am more interested in the "death" of the person, this consciousness of reality.

 

You see the body as a multi-dimesional sensory suit. How does it work (as you understand it)?

 

YIkes don't get me started , I could write chapters about this, but I'll give a very brief definition.

I see the human being as a series of energy fields of varying frequencies and vibrations.

 

I see the biological body as an interactive sensory/information acquisition process that consciousness co-creates to explore and exchange information within a certain bandwidth of dense vibration that we call 'physical reality'. It is tied to duality via the nature of tai ji and yin/yang and the five elements and affects us emotionally and mentally via the conditioning of the nature of the antipodal relationships of co-dependent opposites within the framework of our culture and family.

 

I say multi-dimensional because (to me) emotions/thoughts/dreams/intuitions occupy varying other levels of more subtle frequency that can have an effect on our experience of reality and our physical senses, yet exist beyond the body and can be experienced completely (seemingly) free of body input.

 

Spiritual frequencies are so far out, I can't even put words to them, but they are myriad varying levels or dimensions of vibration/frequency higher than the subtle body that involve experiences that are difficult to describe in word symbols, yet have massive impact on all other levels of the sensory suit.

 

I call it a suit because, though I'm very attached to it, it's not an attachment I equate to my survival, but more like how I look at a favorite old coat... maybe worn and rumpled, but has some style and so many stories (good and bad) attached to it, that it is quintessentially me.

 

Hope that's not too convoluted and thanks for the great discussion.

I'm fairly blown away by this place.

[sree]

I am in.

 

When Ernest Shackleton, the Irish explorer, recruited a crew for his expedition to the Antartic, 5000 people applied and said "I am in" even though it was clearly spelt out that "safe return is not guaranteed". Those people didn't have to go and had everything to lose; and yet, they were prepared to face death in freezing temperatures just for an adventure.

 

The success in our search for the Tao of dying is also not guaranteed. But in our case, we have nothing to lose since - if we don't try - death is inevitable anyway and the chances of escaping the horrid process of dying - as the body painfully disintegrates with age - are slim to none. So, our expedition to find freedom from a terrible fate, by contrast, is eminently worthwhile and we have the valor of desperation to succeed. Only the dumb and the dispirited will not try.

 

What's the fall back position, if we don't make it? I think there are two fall back positions. The last one would be to choose Gentlewind's way.

[Rara]

Are you connected to the body? If you are, then you are one with the body and vanish as the body checks out and stops breathing forever.

 

This is how I see it. It is like riding. If you know how to ride well, then you are one with the horse. A good rider knows the Tao of riding. If you know how to live in oneness with the body, then you know the Tao of dying.

 

I say the body is a plane that we ride...that is all. How much we KNOW this, depends on how much we ask this question of ourselves. Hence your question in this forum

 

The more we know, the more we control the plane and accept when the plane is ready to crash.

 

Others know that they are going to die, but they do not really understand it...or they are scared of it. So they mask it and forget about it until one day it hits them. Some will be disappointed that they didn't do more with their lives, and others will lye there in fear because they're attached to this world and don't know what to do now that they're about to lose it.

 

But yes, we're here, and when the body goes, we'll be elsewhere...but what does it matter. We can't stop it, can we?

[thelerner]

Just as you choose to be happy in the face of pain, I choose to be sad at the sight of human suffering. Not everyone can psyche himself up to face physical trauma like Samurai warriors. What about the babies too young to even know that they are dying from mortal wounds, small children suffering the ravages of AIDS, and old people tortured by the fear of death? It's not just about me that I am seeking the Tao of dying.

By that logic, you will never allow yourself to be happy. It's a world of 6 billion people, there will always be cause for great sadness somewhere. Always, course there's great happiness and joy too, one can choose to focus on that or strive for equanimity in the face of it all.

 

I suppose my way is to reserve everyday tide of emotional feeling for a circle of friends and family. To let there happiness and sorrows affect me. Because to weep for a strange 3,000 miles away where I don't really know all the facts seems wasteful to me and does zero good for them. To cry because little Puchi in a tiny village in another continent lost her purse or mother feels self indulgent to me. But my family and friends I can offer help, comfort or an ear to. That's not to say helping others far away isn't my responsibility. I give regularly to Heifer.org (flocks of chickens); that helps someone, constantly feeling sad about strangers helps no one and may be a bit of an ego trip.

 

To live life without happiness is a waste. Be real, but enjoy the world and what you have.

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源