Why matter holds its form.

[Vmarco]

I'm suggesting all memory as we (seem) to know and define ourselves dissolving, for memory is much to slow to hold that which is moving so fast that it standing still and already together everywhere at once. (or in both "only in this one" and in the "several")

 

"It is man

Who is in movement

Against the background of immobility.

But who moves the moved?" Wu Hsin

[steve]

All this ocean talk reminded me that at the Buddhist monestary set by the ocean shore , I have visited recently the Guru /Teacher gave a contemplation on horizon -- a point where ocean meeting the sky as a one of the main meditations/ teachings for people to practise .

I like to internalize that point where the ocean meets the sky and find the horizon inside.

[manitou]

I like to internalize that point where the ocean meets the sky and find the horizon inside.

 

 

Well hello. You come in disguise

[rene]

If time (and space) is an illusion then so are the "One" to the "10,000" and the mind in which they exist, (which is not my take)

 

Even 'tao' is just an idea.

[3bob]

Hello Rene, I'd use words along the line of, an idea pointing to more than just an idea, which may also be what you mean?

[rene]

Hello Rene, I'd use words along the line of, an idea pointing to more than just an idea, which may also be what you mean?

 

Hello 3bob,

 

What I mean is - 'tao' is just an idea.

 

Everyone has lots of ideas 'about' tao.

 

I'm saying that 'tao', also, is just an idea.

[voidisyinyang]

When we see things that is our spirit as coherent light traveling out of us. If our spirit is strong then we can see inside things and we can see the consciousness inside matter - this includes past experiences of objects - the energy of objects. Called psychometry.

 

So when we focus our mind on something as visualization we actually focus our spirit light on it.

 

But this is just dualistic thinking as only our sense of I separates us from the objects we see or experience.

 

The source of our I-thought is what makes us neither an object nor subject -- our true identity is the same as objects around us and that is formless consciousness which can not be seen.

 

It is called "time-frequency uncertainty" in quantum physics - it's an eternal process of energy-matter and space-time creation.

 

Sound resonates into the quantum energy as phonons -- acoustic cavitation as sonoluminesence....

 

The more we resonate into the formless realm then the more energy we have to reform matter itself and travel in time, etc.

[3bob]

you can't feed children with just 'ideas', and then again you can't pass go without some idea of what you are doing up to that point...

Edited April 7, 2013 by 3bob

[manitou]

The source of our I-thought is what makes us neither an object nor subject -- our true identity is the same as objects around us and that is formless consciousness which can not be seen.

 

Huzzah!

 

We are all the same formless consciousness. It is only our personal histories that give us different points of view. We can't possibly all see things the same way unless everyone achieves clarity by unraveling the tunnels of vision within themselves so that the spirit-light you refer to can See without distortion, curves, blockages, or tangles. It's like We are the movie projector projecting the movie.

 

So if you remove 'time' from the equation by hovering above and seeing past, present, and future focusing on one thing or idea, the idea can be seen in its entirety, as it says in the TTC. Or one can also choose to entrench ones's self in the idea or event and experience the Feelings of the event to see it from an inner and personal perspective. The choice is ours.

[suninmyeyes]

I like to internalize that point where the ocean meets the sky and find the horizon inside.

Yes hello ! Where have you been all this time ?

 

Definetly internalizing that point . It is such a natural meditation that can occur to anyone , a point and aliveness beyond thoughts and words . Something we used to do naturally as kids .

Edited April 7, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[steve]

Yes hello ! Where have you been all this time ?

 

Definetly internalizing that point . It is such a natural meditation that can occur to anyone , a point and aliveness beyond thoughts and words . Something we used to do naturally as kids .

 

So easy a child can do it!

 

Well hello. You come in disguise

 

Nice to see you both here.

Have a beautiful Sun Day.

[lienshan]

Even 'tao' is just an idea.

 

That's an idea.

[rene]

That's an idea.

 

 

It is yes.

 

There are all kind of ideas

There are ideas about why matter holds its form

and ideas about things being an illusion

and ideas about things not being an illusion

and ideas about what is the nature of tao

and ideas about what is the nature of god

and an idea that there is a god

and an idea that there is a tao.

Lots of ideas - even tao is just an idea

and some ideas are better than others

or so it seems to me (-:

 

warm regards

Edited April 7, 2013 by rene

[3bob]

and...?

 

(why bother saying so?)

[rene]

I was only adding to the idea you expressed here:

 

If time (and space) is an illusion then so are the "One" to the "10,000" and the mind in which they exist, (which is not my take)

 

but I can see now there was no reason to bother; apologies for wasting the time and space of the thread. (-:

[3bob]

apologies not needed in any way Rene, and whatever you want to contribute is not a waste of time or space! I'm just trying to understand you or what you are saying as more than just a misty like idea.

[lienshan]

Lots of ideas - even tao is just an idea

and some ideas are better than others

or so it seems to me (-:

 

You are in my opinion both rigth and wrong:

 

The word tao is ofcourse an idea in the same way as manitou's chair is an idea.

But what the word tao means isn't an idea because nobody can model matter into its form.

[Vmarco]

What I mean is - 'tao' is just an idea.

 

Everyone has lots of ideas 'about' tao.

 

I'm saying that 'tao', also, is just an idea.

 

The Tao is only an idea for those who have not realized what the term Tao point to. The Tao is not an idea, nor arose from an idea. Although the Tao is the fulcrum upon which idea's express themselves, the Tao does not give birth to idea's, nor is any idea the Tao. Thus, if you have an idea, you can be assured, it is not the Tao.

 

IMO, Manitou's statement,..."We are the movie projector projecting the movie"...needs further explaination.

 

The we that we think, feel, and sense we are, is the projection,...which is as real as any movie,...the Tao is as the Still Light in the projector. The Still Light does not produce the idea's on the film being projected. The Still Light did not produce the projector. One could say however, that the idea of separation from the Still Light, manifested the projector.

 

The statement..."We are the movie projector projecting the movie"...can be confusing, and interpreted as ,..."We are the movie projector projecting the movie." This romantic notion that for duality to exist there must an individual observer, as if Bohr's Law implies that observers and the observed need a human connection,...that humans somehow effect things into perceived reality,..is insane.

[Vmarco]

.

But what the word tao means isn't an idea because nobody can model matter into its form.

 

???

 

In 1995, at Stanford University, physicists made two particles of matter by supercharging a trillion-watt laser through a linear accelerator. If they had access to all of our sun’s power in one spot, there might have been enough power to make one ounce of matter. Thus, it would take the energy of more than a thousand stars to make the physical mass of a person.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

thank god energy and mass are interchangeable!
Imagine if energy were vastly finite, and we made it this far.... creating 2 particles could have been the end of all time!

[rene]

Vmarco, hi

 

The Tao is only an idea for those who have not realized what the term Tao point to. The Tao is not an idea, nor arose from an idea. Although the Tao is the fulcrum upon which idea's express themselves, the Tao does not give birth to idea's, nor is any idea the Tao. Thus, if you have an idea, you can be assured, it is not the Tao.

 

The idea that there actually IS a Tao, arose from a need for explanations to support experiences, observations and ideas.

 

Please do not misunderstand. I like the idea of Tao, as I perceive it. But I do not kid myself that what I (or anyone else) perceives/realizes about anything, including Tao, might be nothing more than results of our own creative means, i.e., ideas, and rather ingenious ones at that!

 

warm regards

Edited April 7, 2013 by rene

[rene]

apologies not needed in any way Rene, and whatever you want to contribute is not a waste of time or space! I'm just trying to understand you or what you are saying as more than just a misty like idea.

 

[Guest Jason Croft]

1. Can you see my avatar? It is a photo of magnetic flux, taken by a USA satellite, of a galaxy. Magnetism.

[Xienkula1]

Possibly like this http://www.onbeing.org/program/uncovering-codes-reality/feature/symbols-power-adinkras-and-nature-reality/1460

[Vmarco]

Please do not misunderstand. I like the idea of Tao, as I perceive it. But I do not kid myself that what I (or anyone else) perceives/realizes about anything, including Tao, might be nothing more than results of our own creative means, i.e., ideas, and rather ingenious ones at that!

 

Ideas are surely perceived,...the Tao is impossible to perceive. All those who have truly realized the Tao, have gone beyond perception,...that is, beyond the 6 senses. It is 100% impossible to perceive the Tao.

 

Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go."

 

Buddha said, "the Tathagata does not come and go."

 

The 6 senses (perception) cannot perceive that which does not come and go,...perception can only perceive motion. All motion is illusion.

 

The Tao did not arise from a need to explain experiences,...nor did the Tathagata.

 

According to Avalokitesvara, and seconded by Sakyamuni,....hearing is the best way to uncover the Tao.

 

"As soon as one sense-organ returns to the source, All the six are liberated." Avalokitesvara...Shurangama Sutra