Some recent insights

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi

I have had some interesting realizations.

 

I have had some experiences with the 'clear light' that comes from the heart and manifests out of the eyes.

I have written about these episodes, which I was calling 'satori moments' in various threads.

The last post was here:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27071-difference-between-being-in-pure-land-and-clear-light/?p=413974

 

The jist of it is that, there is a channel which goes from the heart to the eyes. It is called the Kati crystal channel. If you can activate this channel by being relaxed and loving, a phenomenon occurs which can be described as "a waterous radiantly clear liquid-like substance comes out of your eyes and projects itself into the viewable scenery." The phenomenon is characterised by tremendous Bliss, Joy, Peace, the feeling that you are everything and a particular silence of the conceptual mind.

 

So far, nobody has been able to confirm this experience. This is not a 3D visual effect; the world is seen as it appears, not holographic. The world (the scene you are viewing) appears normally except is much brighter, radiant, glistening. The feeling (to me) is like you are God looking into the eyes of God. Everything is love or one or the same taste.

 

Yesterday, I was reading a book called "A Clear Mirror" - Traktung Dudjom Lingpa and I came across this quote:

 

 

Dualistic mind perceives objects. When your experiential mode has shifted to timeless awareness

And supreme sublime insight seals phenomena as the dynamic expression of awareness,

Outer and inner become indivisible via the kati crystal secret path

Of the eyes and space, and you recognize emptiness’s true nature.

 

Lingpa, Traktung Dudjom (2011-12-13). A Clear Mirror: The Visionary Autobiography of a Tibetan Master (Kindle Locations 1407-1410). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.

 

 

Hmmm! Perhaps my experiences are realizations of 'emptiness's true nature'. !

 

Dudjom Lingpa's meditation instructions are very similar to the types of practices that I have been doing.. The text that leads into the reference of the kati channel is here:

 

 

THAT YEAR, AT NIGHT on the tenth day of the twelfth month, as before, an immense river of blood surged and changed into dark blue light like a raging river. My mind became space: I experienced the river of light flowing down from that expanse, and then all apparent phenomena dissolved into it. At that point a youth with a blue body wearing blue attire appeared, saying he was Orgyen Tsokyé Dorjé, Lake-Born Vajra. He said, “Isn’t this — your visionary experience — extraordinary?”

 

I replied, “At first this vision arose as blood, which was terrifying. Later, it appeared as utter darkness, and my mind was exhausted. Finally, it manifested as rainbows. Now it appears like a waterfall of dark blue light. If I examine how this unfolds, I can compare it to a rainbow appearing in space or a reflection appearing upon water. I think that all phenomena are nothing apart from space, yet at the same time, how is it that space is wide-open emptiness, without faults or qualities? As for what is called ‘mind,’ for example, if there is no fire, there are no sparks; if there is no water, there is no sound of water, and the reflections of planets and stars won’t appear. If mind has no basis, thoughts and appearances can’t possibly arise. If this mind dwells in my body, outer appearances can’t possibly arise. To whom does a dreamscape — earth, rocks, mountains, cliffs, firmness, solidity — appear? In the morning it vanishes without a trace. When I examine that, the true nature of mind appears within mind’s expanse. That’s what I think.”

 

“You’ve almost realized the view! Now tell me of your meditation practice.”

 

“Since I don’t know how to meditate, you should teach me how,” I insisted.

 

“Oh child of my spiritual family, each master employs a different style of teaching meditation. Some claim that you must block thoughts. Some say that you must gaze directly at thoughts and be aware. Some claim that you have to cultivate thoughts, then rework the negative ones. Some contend you must merge mind and space. It’s astonishing the myriad forms of happiness and suffering that occur due to the fault of not [naturally] settling, as is the mind’s nature. Some even assert that mind is emptiness, and yet you also have to maintain a very subtle perception of mental consciousness.

 

“Whatever you name these, however you label them — they are definitely not the correct path! Now, if you wish to enter the true path, [understand that] the pure lands above, impure cyclic existence below, and all environments and beings are nothing other than the nature of reality’s space. Once you’ve recognized their single, innate flavor within space, space is fully evident. Settle undistracted within that continuous nature. What does it mean to be ‘undistracted’? It is to have neither a focal point nor clinging, no meditation or fixation, no nurturing or preserving. It is beyond description or expression. Just as it was before, leave [the mind] to itself, unfettered.”

 

I asked, “How should I handle all these thoughts?”

 

The youth answered, “It’s incorrect to block or to hold on to thoughts in any way. Know that without attachment to any sort of understanding, sensation, or experience, let thoughts go.”

 

“Do I look at space with my eyes?”

He said, “Look from within a state of uncontrived natural repose — that’s it!”

 

I asked, “Is looking into space with my eyes incorrect? If mind doesn’t see mind, even if space becomes apparent, how can that be helpful?”

 

“Gazing at mind with mind entails the duality of a looker and something looked upon. Therefore, looking at thoughts with your intellectual mind is like an old person watching a small child’s game — it’s pointless. All cyclic existence and enlightenment are nothing other than space itself, within which they are of a single flavor. Once you recognize that indwelling state, it is sufficient to not turn your eyes from space. That is meaningful because original awareness perceives the visual consciousness, which has no essence apart from that awareness. A corpse doesn’t have eyes to which forms appear; in dreams, appearances of forms manifest without eyes; in the intermediate state, as well, appearances of forms manifest without eyes. Use these examples to understand primordially present insight.

 

“All sentient beings have not actualized the basis of being, so they are deluded. Putting that aside, you can see that because thoughts or concepts aren’t different from the basis of being, there really is no delusion. Look at how all sentient beings are deluded because of their obsessive attachment to thoughts. Therefore, thoughts are something that can be transformed. Once you apprehend the incisive certainty from deep within that all phenomena of cyclic existence and enlightenment never transcend the nature of space, that is called ‘pure space.’ Throughout the past, present, or future, it’s not right to ever stray from [the state in which] that indwelling nature is obvious to you. If you accomplish the vital training of familiarizing yourself with this, in the end, unformulated basic space beyond limits, the nature of reality, will become apparent to you. For example, just as at dawn there can be no darkness, you will surely reach meditation practice free from exertion and effort.” Then he vanished.

 

From that time forth, I made my spiritual path simply not taking my eyes away from space. I cultivated that experience wholeheartedly and arrived directly at basic space free from edge or limits, the nature of reality. My realization overflowed into that openness.

 

Absolutely everything appears from either cyclic existence or enlightenment

Free from the multiplicity of elaboration;

The essence of space is the arena of the original basis of being,

Which cannot be demonstrated by metaphor, other than as space itself.

 

Even the Buddha’s Sublime Insight sutras state

That when you carry out the sacred practice of the perfection of sublime insight,

You are actually engaged in the sacred practice of space.

Be aware: This is the ultimate meaning of what has been taught.

 

As things are outside, so they are inside.

Whether outer or inner, everything is the natural radiance of what’s within:

Whatever the inner radiance is, it manifests as if outer.

 

Separate things are exaggerated, given symbols and names;

What is ineffable, inconceivable, and indescribable is expressed and thereby made definable. That inexpressible meaning is presented fully through illustration.

This is the sage approach — the skillful means of the victors of the three times —

An entryway that leads to ultimate basic space.

 

Dualistic mind perceives objects.

When your experiential mode has shifted to timeless awareness And supreme sublime insight seals phenomena as the dynamic expression of awareness,

Outer and inner become indivisible via the kati crystal secret path

Of the eyes and space, and you recognize emptiness’s true nature.

 

The lion’s roar of the discourse of the utmost sovereign spiritual approach

Terrifies the lowly minds of herds of wild animals.

The very nature of the extremely profound teachings Is constantly challenged by ordinary minds.

Inner truth, the primordially present body of ultimate enlightenment,

Is seen with your own wisdom eyes.

If some method exists to teach this to others,

Why did the Buddha say it was profound peace, unformulated, and difficult to fathom?

 

Lingpa, Traktung Dudjom (2011-12-13). A Clear Mirror: The Visionary Autobiography of a Tibetan Master (Kindle Locations 1407-1416). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.

 

 

A few days ago, after posting about the 'satori moments' I started contemplating the clear waterous substance that emits from the eyes as bliss, peace, joy, love, brilliant radiance..

I focused on remembering the phenomenon, examining it, remembering each aspect. Recalling the experiences was somehow setting it off again. And, it was right before my regular meditation time, so I went to meditate for an hour.

 

I sat in my usual posture and started with my dedications/prayers.

The bells from my "Insight Timer" went off, indicating the start of the hour long session.

There were great streams of love and tingles coming from my heart. I could not 'meditate'.

I decided to just let it go and sit. (I was going to do 1 hour of breath meditation).

As the waves of tingles radiated out from the heart, I noticed that the space had opened up inside. This is the typical space that opens when the senses shut off. It is the space in which one can see the thoughts, visions, colors, lights, chakras.. etc..

However, this time I noticed that the conceptual mind was "behind" again, which was the same positioning of the conceptual mind during the satori moments. I just let it be.

The vibrations radiating upwards from the heart grew more intense. There were subtle films or wisps of light moving all about in front of the conceptual mind. I just let it be and watched.

 

Then, all of a sudden, a very clear face appeared in the front of the space, beyond the front of the brow. It was an image of Ramana. Ok. It sure seemed bright. The image did not go away. And then it moved! And then I felt this overwhelming love coming out of it. Could it be? Ramana? His hair was white.

 

My conceptual mind kicked in and starting throwing up all these thoughts.. I was once again plummeting into the war of mind-games.. I fought off the con-mind as best I could and refocused on Ramana.

 

There was one thought that got through.. "What if it wasn't Ramana? "

So, I binded the image of Ramana in the name of Jesus Christ and watched.

The image of Ramana did not disappear. What happened was very funny. Another vision of Jesus appeared behind Ramana! Now I was looking at Jesus and Ramana.

Then, something even stranger happened. The image of Ramana became a full person standing tall, then that image became a full image of Jesus standing tall, and then that image became another outline of another body (who I thought may have been Gandhi) and then another image...

 

That was too much for my conceptual mind to handle.. Thoughts started cascading out..

I re-arranged my orientation, took a deep breath and went back into meditation.

 

There was Ramana again. This time, he was sitting on a wooden bench in what seemed to be a scene from India. There were not many plants, the sky was very blue and there was a small structure in the background that looked like a clay-walled hut. Then Ramana said to me "Come and sit with me". !!

 

By this point I realized that perhaps this was the real thing. I could see the whole scene as if looking through a telescope. I had no idea what I should do. I went and sat with him. It was like being in a dream. He was wearing nothing but a large white cloth around his bottom. I could not think of anything to say! I just sat there, feeling the love and understanding.

 

Then I thought of something.. I had always had dreams that I had lived in India before this present life. I had visions of steam locomotives, and this one strange three-story-building with no center. The building had a main floor and three surrounding balconies.

 

So, I asked Ramana if I had lived there before. At once, I got more visions of India, the colors, the locomotives, the earthen buildings.. Lots of scenery. It appears that I have in fact been in Ramana's presence before..

 

Back on the meditation seat, I pulled out and started crying. I had no idea. Ramana! King of the heart!

 

It took a few days to get over the initial shock of that experience. The mind must justify by thinking that time and space are only concepts and that the great gurus transcend these phenomenon quite easily. Lots to think about.

 

 

For the last two days, I have uncovered some new insights. I'm trying to stay away from heart meditations because my conceptual mind is rebelling too much..

 

However, for some reason, I now realise how to enter the space of the mind quite easily.

 

What you do is this:

Focus on the little space just below and inside from the navel.

 

Say the mantra "O" silently (internally) and keep it going.. Just "O".. one long "OOOOOOOO".. not "ou" as in 'you', just one long "O" as in 'bow'. AUM has no begining or end.. Just one long "O".

 

What this does is it causes the lower dantien, the place belowe the navel to activate. It is the center of will. It is what you use when you "really try hard". It is what is starting and stopping the breathing too. It also gives off heat if you let it.

 

Anyway, just keep the "O" going with no breaks in it, and then do breath meditation on the place just below the navel. Watch each breath, while visually/mentally looking at the point below the navel. There is a white light there, which helps you to focus.

 

Within a few minutes of doing that, you will see that the space inside your body really opens up.

 

It opens up like your heart opens up, in a vacuous space.

 

Then, you will see visions very easily, but don't look at them. Keep looking at the point where the "O" is coming out of. Keep watching the motion of the lower abdomen, moving with each inhale and exhale. Listen to the "O". Focus on the breath and don't interfere with the breathing.

 

You will start to notice that with each breath, a sort of membrane expands and contracts around the body, from inside the space. That is a good sign. You are seeing from inside the space.

 

After a while, the dreams/visions come quite easily. It is easy because the "O" is also activating the throat chakra, which is the source of the dream world.

 

You can play about in this meditation.. explore, experience the space. I'm seeing some wonderful colors, brilliant displays of patterns and structures, visions and things I've never seen before.. right at the place below the navel..

 

I have been doing this meditation for two days now, as my regular practice..

 

During the last meditation, my whole coarse consiousness collapsed, I swooned and almost successfully passed into the beyond. I failed again, but I'll keep trying. It is so hard just to let go.

 

TI

Edited March 15, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[xabir2005]

My friend Kyle (asunthatneversets: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/sun-that-never-sets.html) can tell you about it

He created an account hopefully he replies.

Edited March 16, 2013 by xabir2005

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I've had experiences less strong than this, but times where the mind was unusually stable and calm and everything seemed more vivid.

 

It's like normally we're using mental force keeping up conceptual barriers without even knowing it. In these flashes we perceive that effort, and simply stop doing it for a time.

 

I look forward to stripping away layer after layer of the onion. TI, sounds like you're doing well... can't wait to get up the ladder to 'meeting Ramana' levels!

Edited March 16, 2013 by Seeker of the Self

[RongzomFan]

There was one thought that got through.. "What if it wasn't Ramana? "

So, I binded the image of Ramana in the name of Jesus Christ and watched.

 

 

You binded Ramana with Jesus?

Edited March 16, 2013 by alwayson

[Tibetan_Ice]

You binded Ramana with Jesus?

 

well, er, yes.

 

Jesus is the ultimate Dzogchen master.

 

If it's a malevolent demon, he will zap him in the light.

[Tibetan_Ice]

My friend Kyle (asunthatneversets: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/sun-that-never-sets.html) can tell you about it

 

He created an account hopefully he replies.

Hi Xabir

That was quite a read. Thanks for the link.

I can't help but wonder if maybe everyone is saying the same thing.

For example, the atman is the son clear light, the Brahman is the mother clear light.

As Shakyamuni described, the 'son clear light' does not really exist, hence sunyata, because it is really a part of the 'mother clear light'.

I find it beneficial, at least in my mind, to distinguish between the two. It saves from having the typical confusions such as arise from trying to understand a lack of division between the two.

For example, if I were mother clear light, I should be able to see everything, be everything, know everything. But, remaining consciously in 'son clear light', I only see/be/know that which is the smaller part, superimposed over the larger part, until such time as I can shatter the bottle and join the one 'mother clear light'.

I think everybody is saying and pointing to the same thing..

Now, I know in Buddhist terminology that the ground or basis is called gzhi, and in this case I am calling the ground "mother clear light". I think it is useful because there is an underlying reference to the dependant origination of the 'son clear light'.

 

The only thing I'm not understanding is that I've read in so many places that enlightenment cannot be transmitted or given or foist upon anyone. Thus, if enlightenment is the realization of 'mother clear light', and it cannot be transmitted, then there can be no effective 'transmission' in Dzogchen. All they can do is point to it, or perhaps introduce a person to the 'son clear light' and then let the introductee proceed on their own course.

 

The other interesting thought that I have had is this: If it is possible for the 'son clear light' to 'break on through' and become part of the 'mother clear light', then it must also be possible that the 'mother clear light' can also break on through (or poke through) and manifest directly into the 'son clear light'. The rules and regulations of common day existence seem to fall apart in this instance.

 

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

TI

[RiverSnake]

It's interesting to hear about you experiences. Thanks for sharing tibetanice.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[hydrogen]

So far, nobody has been able to confirm this experience. This is not a 3D visual effect; the world is seen as it appears, not holographic. The world (the scene you are viewing) appears normally except is much brighter, radiant, glistening. The feeling (to me) is like you are God looking into the eyes of God. Everything is love or one or the same taste.

 

Yes, I experience this twice. The effect lasted a few weeks.

 

It was bliss. I constant smell something wonderful like lilac. The water was sweet and the food was delicious. I felt that I was living in heaven.

 

The freak thing is if I watch TV in a certain way, the people seemed to be alive.

 

I hope I can go back to that state again and stay there longer.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Well, I just have to say.

The meditation on the one continuos "O" is very powerful.

 

The one side-effect from doing that type of meditation is that I am having very vivid dreams at night, and lots of them.

 

The other interesting thing is that during meditation I hit the visions stage quite rapidly. For this afternoon's meditation, nearly the whole meditation was a terrific display of visions, lights, colors, shapes, moving patterns, moving lights, colors I've never seen before and way more. At one point I saw the tunnel of the third eye but didn't do anything with it because basically, you should just ignore everything you see. Don't grasp at it. It just keeps coming and dissolving, coming and dissolving.. It is like watching 100 fireworks shows all-at-once.

 

Ok. Here is some of my theory behind this practice.

 

If awareness, or the ground of being is one continual flow, the only way to tap into it is to sustain your attention on a continual flow, in order to match the same current. This is what most meditations strive to do: to keep the attention focused on one thing in a continual flow, a steady stream.

 

The problem with breath meditation is that breathing starts, and then pauses, and then resumes. So, it is always pausing, like after the in-breath and after the out-breath. They say, during breath meditation that once you can focus on the breathing in and breathing out, you are supposed to focus on a complete cycle. Gradually, breath meditation builds on maintaining continual focus on many cycles of breathing. That is difficult, for a couple reasons. When the breathing pauses, that is when you are most vulnerable to mind-wandering. And, there is nothing to help you sustain a constant stream.

 

During breath meditation I did hit the jhanas regularily, that is when I discovered this little bent-over-finger-like-thing in the center of the head. I think it comes from the heart. It kind of flopped around when I first discovered it, but after a while (a few weeks of working with it) I learned that you can direct it, or plop your attention down at a single place and then you can easily maintain a steady stream of attention. And it feels like you are actually looking through that finger. But you have to be pretty deep, your senses have to be shut off and you have to be on in inner side of your mind.

 

However, if you subvocally sound off the "O" in one long continual 'silent sound', all of a sudden it becomes the long continual background from which you can watch everything else arise and pass, including the breathing. Sounding off the "O" also taps into the constant energy flow from the lower d/tan tien (below the navel). And, Sounding of the "O" is also activating the throat chakra, which is the seat of dreams. But it has to be one long "OOOOOOOOOO" and keep it going without any pauses. And, you listen to the sound, like you were talking to yourself. Today, I did that for 1 hour during my meditation.

 

So far I haven't had any overloads from this practice, just lots of mind-blowing colors and lights and then vivid dreams at night. It is quite allot of fun. You see so many patterns/lights/colors coming and if you don't grasp at them or try to conceptualize too much, they just keep coming and get even more intense. I've seen so many things I've never seen before that it makes me think that normal visions and scenes are so boring.. I'm sure there will something useful to realize after refining the practice.

 

Or perhaps I've discovered how to gain access to one of the four stages of types of visions talked about in the Thogal practice leading to Dzogchen.. I'll have to do some research.

If the basic premise is that we are manifestations of clear light, and the five elements/colors are manifestations of the splitting of the clear light into the five lights(pure and impure), then maybe we should be playing in the lights and resting as the projector, enjoying the show..

 

I'm kind of loving this practice. Glad I thought of it.

 

TI

[Tibetan_Ice]

When your breath stopped, you meant it just went away completely as in no respiration, ect. I noticed during my meditation on the breath, it turns from "breathing" to just respiration. So yeah in a sense there is a pause in the breath between the exhale and the inhale but I work at making it continuous. The hard part is keeping the mind on it completely without shifting your gaze to your body. This happens a lot to me. I would focus on the respiration then my gaze goes to my legs or body part. Then that's when my mind wanders.

Hi,

Well, during formal breath meditation, I focus on the breathing and the knowing of the breathing. Then it becomes a mental representation of the breath. I keep focusing on that, trying to make it a complete cycle. It helps if I visualize a white ball at the top and bottom of the breath. Then, after a while, the breath really slows down. Then, I up the concentration on the white light that appears there. Then, the white light gets wobbly, moves around and gets closer. Then, I dissolve and I find myself in this space with very little going on, or I find myself in immense bright light, full of bliss..

 

I have also tried the one breath, as suggested by Max in the Kunlun book. Making sure there are no pauses. That works too. Eventually your breath slows down and things get really bright. But again, I have to visualize a white ball of light moving up and down in order to know exactly when to move the breath so that it doesn't stop.

 

But, for the Alan Wallace type of breath meditation, you aren't supposed to try to control your breathing in any way.

 

This other method, the long "O", is a totally different philosophy. It is, letting what ever comes up, come up and not being attached or grasping at it. Another benefit I've found about the long "O" meditation is that I feel great afterwards, like I've been charged up.

 

Yes, I was reading in the "Balancing the Mind" book by Tsonkhapa, that you have to use effort and will at first in order to remain on the mental representation of the breath. So, I started investigating. Will comes from below the navel. When I really tried hard (using will), I could feel the energy coming out from that location below the navel. It is also the same location that is used when you repeat a mantra, or sustain a single mantra. So I put 2 and 2 together.. A steady flow of will using the subvocalized, sustained "O".. and then focusing on the sound and the light.

 

I guess I am a pioneer. We'll see what comes of it.

Good luck.

 

TI

Edited March 20, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[asunthatneversets]

Tibetan Ice, though I haven't really investigated this experience very thoroughly you're the only other person I've ever heard mention this type of occurrence. This same experience has happened to me twice, both times while driving. For me it started with a sensation in the heart area that slowly welled up into the head until it felt as if my awareness or cognizance was pouring out of my eyes.

 

The first time it happened I stopped the experience before it went too far because I wasn't sure what was going to happen if it continued (I was driving and didn't want to risk any impairment).

 

The second time it lasted a bit longer and I had I began to have the same experience you mentioned with your cognizance suffusing with 'outer-phenomena' but because I was driving and couldn't relax completely it eventually faded out.

 

Both times it visually appeared like the 'dolly-zoom' camera effect that was used in Hitchcock's film Vertigo and felt like my cognizance was pouring (or slowly expanding) out of my eyes. I was also very relaxed prior to this happening and had been meditating while I drove for some time (essentially maintaining a relaxed and undistracted focus).

 

Interesting stuff. I wrote to a senior practitioner to get his opinion but haven't heard back, I don't want to speculate about the experience, especially not with the thogal anatomy, but for all I know there is a possibility your theories could be accurate, though I can't say for sure.

 

At any rate though, it's intriguing to find someone else who's had this same experience, if there are others (and it is indeed related to thogal) they most likely don't talk about it since that practice is generally not to be discussed openly. I've been interested in finding out more about the nature of this experience but haven't pursued it too intensively because one aspect of my practice is to not grasp and cling at experiences. There are many mundane nyams (or meditative experiences) such as these which can occur and it's best to let them pass just as any other experiential phenomena would. But at the same time this experience was definitely out of the ordinary and very interesting, plus the fact that there's now only you and I I've heard about it from, quite intriguing.

Edited March 20, 2013 by asunthatneversets

[Tibetan_Ice]

Tibetan Ice, though I haven't really investigated this experience very thoroughly you're the only other person I've ever heard mention this type of occurrence. This same experience has happened to me twice, both times while driving. For me it started with a sensation in the heart area that slowly welled up into the head until it felt as if my awareness or cognizance was pouring out of my eyes.

 

The first time it happened I stopped the experience before it went too far because I wasn't sure what was going to happen if it continued (I was driving and didn't want to risk any impairment).

 

The second time it lasted a bit longer and I had I began to have the same experience you mentioned with your cognizance suffusing with 'outer-phenomena' but because I was driving and couldn't relax completely it eventually faded out.

 

Both times it visually appeared like the 'dolly-zoom' camera effect that was used in Hitchcock's film Vertigo and felt like my cognizance was pouring (or slowly expanding) out of my eyes. I was also very relaxed prior to this happening and had been meditating while I drove for some time (essentially maintaining a relaxed and undistracted focus).

 

Interesting stuff. I wrote to a senior practitioner to get his opinion but haven't heard back, I don't want to speculate about the experience, especially not with the thogal anatomy, but for all I know there is a possibility your theories could be accurate, though I can't say for sure.

 

At any rate though, it's intriguing to find someone else who's had this same experience, if there are others (and it is indeed related to thogal) they most likely don't talk about it since that practice is generally not to be discussed openly. I've been interested in finding out more about the nature of this experience but haven't pursued it too intensively because one aspect of my practice is to not grasp and cling at experiences. There are many mundane nyams (or meditative experiences) such as these which can occur and it's best to let them pass just as any other experiential phenomena would. But at the same time this experience was definitely out of the ordinary and very interesting, plus the fact that there's now only you and I I've heard about it from, quite intriguing.

Hi

Welcome to the forum.

That is so interesting! Wow!

Yes, like a firehose in slow motion..

 

It is too bad you were driving. You can't really pay that much attention to anything if you are trying to stay on the road. But you seem to know the same ingredients... coming from the heart, natural deep relaxation..

 

Did you notice that it makes everything you are looking at feel like it is 'you'?

 

Now I"m interested in your background, what kind of practices you are doing, how long you have been practicing, how old you are.. Did you do allot of gazing practices? And heart practices?

 

Are you a Buddhist, Kriyaban, ecclectic? Do you belong to a group or have a guru?

 

Yes, it could be nyam, but I think it is much more important.

 

Did you notice the bliss, joy and that inside the 'tunnel' the vision was much brighter and vivid than the outside?

 

Thank you so much for posting this. I never thought in a million years I would find anyone who has had that experience..

 

TI

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[stefos]

Hi

I have had some interesting realizations.

 

I have had some experiences with the 'clear light' that comes from the heart and manifests out of the eyes.

I have written about these episodes, which I was calling 'satori moments' in various threads.

The last post was here:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27071-difference-between-being-in-pure-land-and-clear-light/?p=413974

 

The jist of it is that, there is a channel which goes from the heart to the eyes. It is called the Kati crystal channel. If you can activate this channel by being relaxed and loving, a phenomenon occurs which can be described as "a waterous radiantly clear liquid-like substance comes out of your eyes and projects itself into the viewable scenery." The phenomenon is characterised by tremendous Bliss, Joy, Peace, the feeling that you are everything and a particular silence of the conceptual mind.

 

So far, nobody has been able to confirm this experience. This is not a 3D visual effect; the world is seen as it appears, not holographic. The world (the scene you are viewing) appears normally except is much brighter, radiant, glistening. The feeling (to me) is like you are God looking into the eyes of God. Everything is love or one or the same taste.

 

Yesterday, I was reading a book called "A Clear Mirror" - Traktung Dudjom Lingpa and I came across this quote:

 

Hmmm! Perhaps my experiences are realizations of 'emptiness's true nature'. !

 

Dudjom Lingpa's meditation instructions are very similar to the types of practices that I have been doing..

However, for some reason, I now realise how to enter the space of the mind quite easily.

 

 

What you do is this:

Focus on the little space just below and inside from the navel.

 

Say the mantra "O" silently (internally) and keep it going.. Just "O".. one long "OOOOOOOO".. not "ou" as in 'you', just one long "O" as in 'bow'. AUM has no begining or end.. Just one long "O".

 

What this does is it causes the lower dantien, the place belowe the navel to activate. It is the center of will. It is what you use when you "really try hard". It is what is starting and stopping the breathing too. It also gives off heat if you let it.

 

Anyway, just keep the "O" going with no breaks in it, and then do breath meditation on the place just below the navel. Watch each breath, while visually/mentally looking at the point below the navel. There is a white light there, which helps you to focus.

 

Within a few minutes of doing that, you will see that the space inside your body really opens up.

 

It opens up like your heart opens up, in a vacuous space.

 

Then, you will see visions very easily, but don't look at them. Keep looking at the point where the "O" is coming out of. Keep watching the motion of the lower abdomen, moving with each inhale and exhale. Listen to the "O". Focus on the breath and don't interfere with the breathing.

 

You will start to notice that with each breath, a sort of membrane expands and contracts around the body, from inside the space. That is a good sign. You are seeing from inside the space.

 

After a while, the dreams/visions come quite easily. It is easy because the "O" is also activating the throat chakra, which is the source of the dream world.

 

You can play about in this meditation.. explore, experience the space. I'm seeing some wonderful colors, brilliant displays of patterns and structures, visions and things I've never seen before.. right at the place below the navel..

 

I have been doing this meditation for two days now, as my regular practice..

 

During the last meditation, my whole coarse consciousness collapsed, I swooned and almost successfully passed into the beyond. I failed again, but I'll keep trying. It is so hard just to let go.

 

TI

 

TI....What's up man?

 

Look, um...what dzogchen based teachings were you given?

Who is your root guru..(Dzogchen that is)?

 

I was given Transmission by Sweet Guru Namkhai Norbu.

 

I've never heard of the Kati crystal channel...Is this from Bon?

Please share with a Vajra Brother.

well, er, yes.

 

Jesus is the ultimate Dzogchen master.

 

If it's a malevolent demon, he will zap him in the light.

Right on man! I'm doing pranams on the inside right now.

 

Jesus IS the ultimate Dzogchen master....The Father & Him are one....

 

Demons (evil spirits that Is) are B.A.D. news brother....I went thru demonic oppression..Pray to God you never do...

It's real and it sucked.

 

That's also the reason why we do Sinhamukha & Guru Dragphur practice....Dang, I need to be at Tsegyalgar East, this stinks having no Vajra Sangha around

 

Stefos......A Vajra brother via transmission from Guru Norbu Rinpoche...my sweet Root Guru

[Tibetan_Ice]

TI....What's up man?

 

Look, um...what dzogchen based teachings were you given?

Who is your root guru..(Dzogchen that is)?

 

I was given Transmission by Sweet Guru Namkhai Norbu.

 

I've never heard of the Kati crystal channel...Is this from Bon?

Please share with a Vajra Brother.

Right on man! I'm doing pranams on the inside right now.

 

Jesus IS the ultimate Dzogchen master....The Father & Him are one....

 

Demons (evil spirits that Is) are B.A.D. news brother....I went thru demonic oppression..Pray to God you never do...

It's real and it sucked.

 

That's also the reason why we do Sinhamukha & Guru Dragphur practice....Dang, I need to be at Tsegyalgar East, this stinks having no Vajra Sangha around

 

Stefos......A Vajra brother via transmission from Guru Norbu Rinpoche...my sweet Root Guru

 

Hi Stefos,

I do not have a personal Dzogchen guru. I have been following the Dzogchen retreat instructions by Alan Wallace.

http://archive.org/details/IntroductionToDzogchenRetreatWithAlanWallace2012

As well, I have over 10 books on Dzogchen..

 

I am aware that you were given transmission by C N Norbu. I realize that you can't talk about the experience of transmission, as per the PM's we exchanged a while ago. That is fine.

 

The Kati channel is the channel from the heart that goes up around the ears and right into the pupils of both eyes. It is written about in several places and books.

Here is one source: http://www.theopendoorway.org/thodgal.html

 

All the best.

TI

[stefos]

Hi Stefos,

I do not have a personal Dzogchen guru. I have been following the Dzogchen retreat instructions by Alan Wallace.

http://archive.org/details/IntroductionToDzogchenRetreatWithAlanWallace2012

As well, I have over 10 books on Dzogchen..

 

I am aware that you were given transmission by C N Norbu. I realize that you can't talk about the experience of transmission, as per the PM's we exchanged a while ago. That is fine.

 

The Kati channel is the channel from the heart that goes up around the ears and right into the pupils of both eyes. It is written about in several places and books.

Here is one source: http://www.theopendoorway.org/thodgal.html

 

All the best.

TI

OUUuuuuuu.........nice.

 

Thank you

Stefos