Trance and the Path

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

 

weed.

[RiverSnake]

 

weed.

Anyone know of any legal natural incense that aids in trance states?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[manitou]

Anyone know of any legal natural incense that aids in trance states?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

california weed, lol

[RiverSnake]

The more i learn about this stuff the more i see how important GROUNDING is....it seems if you're highly psychic or simply undisciplined with your practice you can easily go of into the deep end with this stuff.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Mark Foote]

From Wikipedia under "Milton Erikson"- hear, hear!

 

'Erickson maintained that trance is a common, everyday occurrence. For example, when waiting for buses and trains, reading or listening, or even being involved in strenuous physical exercise, it's quite normal to become immersed in the activity and go into a trance state, removed from any other irrelevant stimuli. These states are so common and familiar that most people do not consciously recognise them as hypnotic phenomena.

 

"The same situation is in evidence in everyday life, however, whenever attention is fixated with a question or an experience of the amazing, the unusual, or anything that holds a person's interest. At such moments people experience the common everyday trance; they tend to gaze off to the right or left, depending upon which cerebral hemisphere is most dominant (Baleen, 1969) and get that faraway or blank look. Their eyes may actually close, their bodies tend to become immobile (a form of catalepsy), certain reflexes (e.g., swallowing, respiration, etc.) may be suppressed, and they seem momentarily oblivious to their surroundings until they have completed their inner search on the unconscious level for the new idea, response, or frames of reference that will restabilize their general reality orientation. We hypothesize that in everyday life consciousness is in a continual state of flux between the general reality orientation and the momentary microdynamics of trance..."

[9]

'

Edited October 29, 2013 by Mark Foote

[Mark Foote]

Arent we trying to eliminate the momentary trance states that pepper our consciousness.. isnt that the lights flickering, and we want them to be constant?

 

I would say that gets to the heart of the matter. We can't eliminate them, as far as I know. As I have heard someone who studied with Erikson claim, the senses are actually heightened in a hypnotic state, or a hynogogic state (between waking and sleeping). I would also say that the suffering associated with the sense of a distinct "self" ends, with the induction of these states.

 

My personal understanding is that these states reflect the continuity of breath, depend on a continuity of breath. The continuity of breath depends on the coordination of the sense of personal location in space with a freedom of movement in the sense of personal location and with the sense of gravity. The exercise of will interferes with the clear perception of the vestibular, proprioceptive, and gravitational senses necessary to the continuity of breath, necessary to the induction of trance. So for me the trick is letting go of habitual activity so that I can feel, feel where my awareness is in space (clue for me: it's not always in my head), feel the freedom of that location that seemingly transcends the physical while sharpening the senses including the physical, and feel the saturation of gravity throughout the body.

 

As Yuanwu said, "when you finally arrive at towering up like a wall miles high, you will find that there are not so many things". (Zen Letters, trans. Cleary)

 

Bodhidharma said, "have no sighing or coughing in the mind, with a mind like a wall you can enter the way." (Denkoroku, also trans. Cleary).

 

I look to my necessity in the relaxed movement of breath as a path to the end of ignorance (and suffering), and here I find a tight connection with the sense of location that Bodhidharma referred to as "mind".

 

"Be aware of where you really are 24 hours a day. You must be most attentive." - (Yuanwu, "Letters")

Edited October 29, 2013 by Mark Foote

[RiverSnake]

I've come to see Trance as separating a fragment of ones consciousness from our body and using that consciousness to explore the Astral and other subtler realms. It has continued to be confirmed in my practice that "Grounding" is extremely important as it seems to be a lesser version of Astral Projection.

 

As Spotless has mentioned it truly is fascinating working with other Beings and exploring the cosmos in this fashion. You can also use this altered state to explore your own Microcosm/Inner Landscape and see how you appear from and inner context and areas in which you need to heal (Da Mos Cave). The boundaries between Inner and Outer when doing this kind of work can get a bit fuzzy.

 

But its not a practice that should be done without certain knowledge and understanding as the pitfalls and dangers can be enormous when venturing out on the Astral.....especially without guidance from friends. For those interested i would highly recommend the Magical Knowledge 1-2 by Josephine McCarthy. She refers to this work as working in Vision. She offers a truly masterful compendium of knowledge regarding the various Beings you can work with and the very nature of this work.

 

Other great books which were highly complimentary and worked me up to being able to understand this topic are:

 

Magical Pathworking by Nick Farrel

Tranceportation by Diana L. Paxson

Singing the Soul Back Home by Caitlin Mathews

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited May 11, 2014 by OldChi

[GrandmasterP]

Trance isn't necessarily a healthy state to aspire to.

Get consciousness sorted first I reckon and then see what happens next.

Chemically induced trance states are best left to the encultured.

Edited May 11, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Spotless]

The quotes from Miltom Erikson are misleading, easily misunderstood or incorrect from the standpoint of common use of terms (on relatively uncommon levels - language is a problem). So, without further ado:

 

Do locate where you are, typically if you are in your body you are not in trance. If you are aware you are in say the center of your head, you are in a space of awareness, however it may be cluttered with static and detours.

As you go and come back you may indeed be in and out of trance but in the coming back to the center of your head and awareness you are bobbling back into consciousness however glazed over and veiled it may be. This is real progress, and it does not matter if your center is found in your belly or your heart - these aspects tell more of who you are and the great cosmic vibrations that favor you.

 

Trance is something we do often find ourselves floating off into, but in the quote among other things said, it states:

"The same situation is in evidence in everyday life, however, whenever attention is fixated with a question or an experience of the amazing, the unusual, or anything that holds a person's interest. At such moments people experience the common everyday trance; they tend to gaze off to the right or left, depending upon which cerebral hemisphere is most dominant (Baleen, 1969) and get that faraway or blank look."

This is confusing as it was presented in the short cut and paste. It may not be in the book or from what ever it was taken from and I am not familiar with the author so I cannot vouch for his overall clarity.

As it appears above it is "off" a bit.

When someone is fixated with a question or an experience of the amazing, the unusual, or anything that holds a persons interest, few people go off into a trance and take up "that far away look", in fact such interesting things that hold a persons interest tend to bring one into ones body and out of trance if that is/was where they were.

 

It is extremely interesting to note that if someone is typically out of their body or of a teaching that is in trance and practicing trance states, then as they become a teacher / writer, they may understand this phenomenon from the viewpoint as expressed by Mr Erikson and for them it would seem to be the case - though from the viewpoint of a more clarified general view they would be mistaken. From their case and those of similar bent, they are in a sense correct but confusing to many of us.

 

This can also be the case when scientific studies are done wherein the scientist study electrochemical activity but do not have the gift of clairvoyance and come to conclusions that are quite neat and tidy and have nothing to do with reality.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Additional confusion is created at the outset of the Erickson quote:

 

"'Erickson maintained that trance is a common, everyday occurrence. For example, when waiting for buses and trains, reading or listening, or even being involved in strenuous physical exercise, it's quite normal to become immersed in the activity and go into a trance state, removed from any other irrelevant stimuli. These states are so common and familiar that most people do not consciously recognise them as hypnotic phenomena."

 

The following is simply very poor writing:

" For example, when waiting for buses and trains, reading or listening, or even being involved in strenuous physical exercise, it's quite normal to become immersed in the activity and go into a trance state, removed from any other irrelevant stimuli."

 

It is simply not "quite normal to become immersed in the activity", in fact it is quite normal to float off out of our bodies in the tedium of it all. We are so un- immersed in the activity that we " leave the building" so to speak. I would say from the perspective of a true seeker that we aspire to be actually immersed in such present moments as "waiting for a bus" because it is precisely at that moment nearly impossible to be immersed in them or present to them - it is so very easy to be waiting for a bus and be off arranging what we will be doing later when the day has ended or the weekend has begun.

 

I am not arguing in any way that this is not what he is trying to say, only that if it is, it is an odd way to state it. And if it is not what he is trying to say then I would say it is the view point of one looking from an uncommon dimension. A view that is misleading for most humans.

 

I am being picky here because the word trance, the concept of trance is a slippery thing and we can easily find ourselves missing the boat while its right there in front of us.

 

Be in your body, do your practice from there and you will find yourself falling less into trance and more into awareness. The platform will increasingly settle under your feet and the outlines of a boat however fleeting will come in and out of view with grater frequency.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Spotless

[Mark Foote]

" For example, when waiting for buses and trains, reading or listening, or even being involved in strenuous physical exercise, it's quite normal to become immersed in the activity and go into a trance state, removed from any other irrelevant stimuli."

 

It is simply not "quite normal to become immersed in the activity", in fact it is quite normal to float off out of our bodies in the tedium of it all. We are so un- immersed in the activity that we " leave the building" so to speak. I would say from the perspective of a true seeker that we aspire to be actually immersed in such present moments as "waiting for a bus" because it is precisely at that moment nearly impossible to be immersed in them or present to them - it is so very easy to be waiting for a bus and be off arranging what we will be doing later when the day has ended or the weekend has begun.

 

It's a lot like moving in a mirror, as far as I'm concerned: if you want to be appropriately aware, you must also be appropriately unaware.

 

“Usually we are not interested in the nothingness of the ground. Our tendency is to be interested in something that is growing in the garden, not in the bare soil itself. But if you want to have a good harvest, the most important thing is to make the soil rich and cultivate it well. The Buddha’s teaching is not about the food itself but about how it is grown, and how to take care of it.” Shunryu Suzuki

Edited May 13, 2014 by Mark Foote

[GrandmasterP]

Just say someone sits for meditation but in doing so they are aspiring to attain to a trance state.

The meditation dissolves at that point of aspiration.

Desire is just that, whatever the object of desire.

A trained medium can enter and leave trance safely and at will and be completely physically and psychically safe whilst entranced.

Others are best leaving trance well alone.

There be dragons out there.

Reflect upon one's 'desire' to attain to the trance state.

What is it?

Edited May 13, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Mark Foote]

Trance is a natural part of human nature. Erickson could induce a trance in someone in the course of shaking their hand. While I admit that ability and explanation are frequently two different things, I find his understanding of the occurrence and significance of trance to be positive and to accord with my experience.

 

The cultiviation of a practice of relinquishment is a natural part of a healthy life, and entails the experience of trance. There be yer own nature, dragon.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Mark Foote

[steve]

In my understanding Trance is a tool used in almost all cultures and Traditions. Shamans call it Journeying, in the Western Tradition people go into Trance and explore Inner Worlds or Inner Space in order to make "Contacts" which can guide them on the path as well as meet there Guardian Angels, animal guardians, communicate with Deities and dead relatives, heal people with Fragmented Souls, visit the Big Library........etc

 

Although i have spent a lot of time learning how to lounge in the Emptiness through meditation and heal myself by opening channels and strengthening my energy body i have not spent much time playing in the Void and simply curious of what peoples experiences of playing in the Void have been and whats the value of learning and dedicating some time to Trance and Journeying?

 

How has using Trance been useful or not useful for you on your Path?

I've done a very small amount of journeying.

I have a close friend who is a shaman and has helped me with it a bit.

One valuable aspect of this sort of work is that it helps to develop intuitive powers.

It helps to develop trust in one's intuition as well as openness and sensitivity and can lead to looking at the world in a very different way.

Since the experience is so unique with each individual, I don't want to say much more than that as I find it can easily be too leading.

[Green Tiger]

Since the experience is so unique with each individual, I don't want to say much more than that as I find it can easily be too leading.

 

I think that's my feelings on 'trance' in general. A good instructor, I think, will listen to you recount your experiences and maybe offer some insight, but won't tell you what you should expect, per se.

[RiverSnake]

 

I think that's my feelings on 'trance' in general. A good instructor, I think, will listen to you recount your experiences and maybe offer some insight, but won't tell you what you should expect, per se.

Indeed, I always felt a bit uncomfortable sharing my experiences in trance do to the highly subjective nature of the experience. As a result I just record my notes in poetry/verse.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited May 14, 2014 by OldChi