True Love can only exist without Lust (For Enlightenment)

[tulku]

as they say be careful what you wish for

Edited September 9, 2011 by tulku

[steve]

no i will bound you, shackle you, strip you naked and choke you to death

 

how's that for bdsm?

 

don't ever tempt my dark side.. i can be far darker than the worst sociopath out there..

 

as they say be careful what you wish for

Tulku - your comment was completely inappropriate.

As a TTB member and user, I would prefer not to participate in any forum that you are a part of.

As a moderator, I'm going to recommend the harshest response possible.

[witch]

No, I think it is instructive. Maybe in response to another woman it would be inappropriate, but not to me. I am pushing his buttons to see what pops up. This is what pops up.

 

Taoism isn't Christianity, where the dark must be purified out.

 

 

Or maybe that's a Buddhist thing.

 

There are many women who enjoy sadistic dominant men. If you are in balance, there is a place for you, even for this. Balance and finding the right place are my guides.

 

But I do think you need to be able to see the divinity in women.

Edited September 9, 2011 by witch

[Sunya]

There are many mentally unbalanced women who enjoy sadistic dominant men.

 

my addition in bold

[witch]

seems rather closeminded to me. Being submissive is not an indication of mental imbalance, and neither is the enjoyment of painful sensations.

 

but back to the divinity in women (and of course there is also divinity in men)

 

[tulku]

No, I think it is instructive. Maybe in response to another woman it would be inappropriate, but not to me. I am pushing his buttons to see what pops up. This is what pops up.

 

Taoism isn't Christianity, where the dark must be purified out.

 

 

Or maybe that's a Buddhist thing.

 

There are many women who enjoy sadistic dominant men. If you are in balance, there is a place for you, even for this. Balance and finding the right place are my guides.

 

But I do think you need to be able to see the divinity in women.

 

i do see the divinity in women

 

i have known quite a few female spiritual practitioners who are quite divine

 

you, unfortunately, who think that bdsm or sex with sado-machoism is a fun thing is the furthest thing from being divine

 

divinity has its own standards and you fail to meet its standards by a long shot

 

i am only sadistic towards those who deserves it

Edited September 9, 2011 by tulku

[tulku]

my addition in bold

 

exactly my point

[tulku]

Tulku - your comment was completely inappropriate.

As a TTB member and user, I would prefer not to participate in any forum that you are a part of.

As a moderator, I'm going to recommend the harshest response possible.

 

I see I was correct. Well, then, also bound, shackled and dressed as a sissy maid to avoid that unfortunate outcome.

 

 

You look more closely behind the context of my words and observe who posted the opening salvo.

 

This is an extremely offensive remark.

 

Why didn't anyone report this?

 

Or is everyone just out to see poor Tulku being humiliated but he will be chained at the first sign of retort?

 

Jeez, if I am that unpopular, might as well suspend this account for life.

Edited September 9, 2011 by tulku

[witch]

Namaste

[tulku]

Tulku - your comment was completely inappropriate.

As a TTB member and user, I would prefer not to participate in any forum that you are a part of.

As a moderator, I'm going to recommend the harshest response possible.

 

BTW, i have already changed my post so I expect Witch to remove all the degrading posts in this thread as well.

[Stigweard]

BTW, i have already changed my post so I expect Witch to remove all the degrading posts in this thread as well.

In the effort to keep moderation considerations out of main forum discussions perhaps we could reconvene this particular discussion to this topic:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20454-moderation-tulku

 

[witch]

http://www.ecstaticawareness.com/id13.html

 

well, my avatar is witch, and indeed I am a witch. I am also a taoist and not interested in enlightenment, except that I want to flow like water, and be natural and spontaneous (although I do seem to have a couple of those siddhis you are so interested in). I am quite sure that my idea of enlightenment is different from yours. Are you tulku?

 

Hmm...I consider it an honor for a man to wear women's clothing, and to be tied up and/or shackled and to serve a woman. On the other hand I knew quite well how you would take it. So in the interests of harmony I will edit my posts also, since the desired effect has already been achieved.

[starhawk]

You pose question about meaning of love. You also ask, Does love lead to enlightenment?

 

I have heard some say,

 

true love is known once there is the void created by the total absence of love: this total absence is created by a broken heart. Thus true love is known when one recovers after a broken heart. Some never recover.

 

I have heard some say a broken heart is necessary to open the heart, perhaps this is necessary to look for enlightenment?

 

I know I myself only started looking for spiritual fulfillment after I experienced many broken hearts. I yearned to find another answer to life's woes and meaning of love.

 

Where is the answer to life's woes: is it in a lover, or in kindness to all? Is it outside or inside?

Edited September 9, 2011 by starhawk

[tulku]

In the effort to keep moderation considerations out of main forum discussions perhaps we could reconvene this particular discussion to this topic:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20454-moderation-tulku

 

 

Witch and I have modified our posts to the degree that this thread is palatable to the tastes of the general public.

 

There is no reason to move this thread at all.

 

Unless you are one of those who feel unnerved when I say True Love for Enlightenment can only exist without Lust.

[tulku]

http://www.ecstaticawareness.com/id13.html

 

well, my avatar is witch, and indeed I am a witch. I am also a taoist and not interested in enlightenment, except that I want to flow like water, and be natural and spontaneous (although I do seem to have a couple of those siddhis you are so interested in). I am quite sure that my idea of enlightenment is different from yours. Are you tulku?

 

Hmm...I consider it an honor for a man to wear women's clothing, and to be tied up and/or shackled and to serve a woman. On the other hand I knew quite well how you would take it. So in the interests of harmony I will edit my posts also, since the desired effect has already been achieved.

 

You may be a witch but you ain;t a Taoist by a long shot.

 

There are no slaves in Taoism. No masters in Taoism.

 

Only those of a slave mentality consider it fun to serve someone else.

 

Only slaves are trapped by Lust.

For a man to serve a woman or a woman to serve a man, this is a sign of slave bondage.

 

Never say I am not a fair man, witch for I have modified my posts in here too in response to your efforts at harmony.

 

Treat me with courtesy and you can expect the same.

Edited September 9, 2011 by tulku

[tulku]

You pose question about meaning of love. You also ask, Does love lead to enlightenment?

 

I have heard some say,

 

true love is known once there is the void created by the total absence of love: this total absence is created by a broken heart. Thus true love is known when one recovers after a broken heart. Some never recover.

 

I have heard some say a broken heart is necessary to open the heart, perhaps this is necessary to look for enlightenment?

 

I know I myself only started looking for spiritual fulfillment after I experienced many broken hearts. I yearned to find another answer to life's woes and meaning of love.

 

Where is the answer to life's woes: is it in a lover, or in kindness to all? Is it outside or inside?

 

A heart broken by humans is nowhere as painful as a heart broken by the Divine.

 

Humans can break my heart a million times over yet it will never fail.

 

Yet if my heart gets broken by the Gods and the Divine themselves, it will never recover until a miracle happen.

Edited September 9, 2011 by tulku

[Stigweard]

Witch and I have modified our posts to the degree that this thread is palatable to the tastes of the general public.

 

There is no reason to move this thread at all.

 

Unless you are one of those who feel unnerved when I say True Love for Enlightenment can only exist without Lust.

 

I wasn't suggesting moving the thread, just the bits that concerned moderation. However, as it now seems that all parties concerned have moderated themselves, I am sure the conversation will continue on its merry way.

 

Huzzah!

 

[tulku]

You know, I am starting to wonder..

 

if this world ever gets colonized by a superior ET race or the Taoists Gods return to this world..

 

and they give you all these wonderful new technology for free food, free houses, free cars, if they give you all the money in the world and the best superior ET/Taoist health care..

 

if this ET race/Taoist Gods give you all these secrets of Immortality for free..

 

and the only condition is that you can never partake in sex again for the rest of your immortality..

 

how would you feel about such an offer?

[witch]

Is a student serving a master slave bondage? To temporarily put yourself in another's power and do difficult things can be a way to learn about yourself. You are already controlling your sexuality in an extreme way. I think, in your particular case, that you should temporarily give this control over to a beautiful woman with your best interests at heart. I think it would cause the sexual energy in you to jump higher in a healthy and loving way.

 

My larger point is that lust and erotic love can both be used to progress spiritually. Both of these things are good when in the right context and in balance with the way.

[witch]

You know, I am starting to wonder..

 

if this world ever gets colonized by a superior ET race or the Taoists Gods return to this world..

 

and they give you all these wonderful new technology for free food, free houses, free cars, if they give you all the money in the world and the best superior ET/Taoist health care..

 

if this ET race/Taoist Gods give you all these secrets of Immortality for free..

 

and the only condition is that you can never partake in sex again for the rest of your immortality..

 

how would you feel about such an offer?

 

My sexuality permeates every part of my life. There is no distinct line between having sex and not having sex, so it would be difficult to even frame it.

 

Why on earth would anyone want to be immortal though? That doesn't make any sense.

[zanshin]

What's divine and what isn't?

 

Does the idea of divine and not imply an inferior/superior mentality?

 

Should you serve the divine or should the divine serve you?

[tulku]

Is a student serving a master slave bondage? To temporarily put yourself in another's power and do difficult things can be a way to learn about yourself. You are already controlling your sexuality in an extreme way. I think, in your particular case, that you should temporarily give this control over to a beautiful woman with your best interests at heart. I think it would cause the sexual energy in you to jump higher in a healthy and loving way.

 

My larger point is that lust and erotic love can both be used to progress spiritually. Both of these things are good when in the right context and in balance with the way.

 

BDSM is a case of serving the dark human ego. It is a case of belittling one partner for the happiness of the other partner. A clear case of thrashing human dignity.

 

It is totally a different case of say a docter helping a patient. This would be a case of someone with gifts and power helping someone in need. There is no thrashing of human dignity involved.

 

This would be my first point regarding BDSM. It is the most perverse human behavior on earth which involves the crushing of human dignity and self-worth.

 

Furthermore, there are several dark criminal organizations which kidnap victims-women and children from third-world countries and supply these victims as slaves to rich men for their BDSM fun.

 

There is nothing loving about BDSM.

 

Lust and Erotic Love is never on the same level as True Love like a stranger buying back a bankruptee's house and giving the house back to the bankruptee.

 

There will always be elements of greed and lust in Erotic Love. This is why spiritual men of all traditions advocate giving up sex in order to find True Love.

[tulku]

My sexuality permeates every part of my life. There is no distinct line between having sex and not having sex, so it would be difficult to even frame it.

 

Why on earth would anyone want to be immortal though? That doesn't make any sense.

 

As long as one is sexual, it would be much much harder for one to interact with the higher realms.

 

It is the nature and potential of man to evolve into a higher more powerful being who doesn't age and die.

 

Unless you accept death, aging and rebirth as man's natural fate, which it is not by the way as death, aging and rebirth are highly unnatural activities confined to the denizens of the lower dimensions.

Edited September 9, 2011 by tulku

[tulku]

What's divine and what isn't?

 

Does the idea of divine and not imply an inferior/superior mentality?

 

Should you serve the divine or should the divine serve you?

 

There are beings many levels of beings who is much superior to humans.

 

Many of them do not have this superior mentality but there is no running from the fact that they are in fact superior to humans.

 

There are many ways to serve the divine but having your dignity crushed and engaging in perverse behavior isn't one of them,

[witch]

As long as one is sexual, it would be much much harder for one to interact with the higher realms.

 

It is the nature and potential of man to evolve into a higher more powerful being who doesn't age and die.

 

Unless you accept death, aging and rebirth as man's natural fate, which it is not by the way as death, aging and rebirth are highly unnatural activities confined to the denizens of the lower dimensions.

 

I enjoy being a mammal and would like to remain one. Including accepting death when my time comes. Circle of life and all that.