The answer lies in the India/Nepal/Tibet Himalaya Regions afterall.. and definitely NOT in china/taiwan..

[goldisheavy]

Didn't the Buddha speak against ritualized practice?

 

He might have, but honestly I don't recall that. One thing I do remember is that Buddha kept repeating a set of messages over and over and over again. I suppose it could be considered ritualistic on the account of its repetition. To me rituals are characterized by absentmindedness and rote. Like just going through the motions, or just following the status quo, etc. I think a ritual can be useful and meaningful and fresh for a short time, but inevitably rituals grow stale, robotic and meaningless.

 

Also, I wanted to add that replacing some of the meats in the 5 meats ceremony really defeats the entire point of the ritual. I believe you did say the components were "watered down." So I assume at least some of the meats were fake.

Edited May 31, 2011 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

Ok so something I hear a lot, especially on this thread is "Read the Sutras".

 

"The" Sutras? Got any links?

 

It's hard or impossible to find the Mahayana Sutras all in one place on the web. However, something like that exists for the Pali Canon Suttas (Sutta is the Pali version of the word Sutra):

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org

 

If I understand correctly, the ratio of translated Suttas to untranslated ones is tiny.

 

I'm not sure about the ratio of translated to untranslated Sutras when it comes to Mahayana Sutras. And then there are also Tantras, most of which are traditionally considered "secret" although this attitude is changing at least somewhat and they are becoming slowly declassified.

 

Yea, so if you want to read them all, you have to learn Chinese, Tibetan, Sanskrit and Pali. If you want to read them in English, then they are spread all over the place and I don't think there is any one definitive place that has all the English translations.

[ralis]

I found the Visuddhimagga quite useful. It is a somewhat condensed version of the Pali Canon. It is available in many places for free on line. Here is one link.

 

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?1icnmmvdxmm

[Vajrahridaya]

OK, so when it comes to criticizing Buddha, our historical records are not sufficient, but when it comes to praising Buddha, our records are more than sufficient. Do I understand you correctly?

 

 

Do what you want, which one benefits your mind? I'm saying... it's so easy to be you... here, 2,500 years later saying, "The Buddha SHOULD of done this!"

 

I'm saying, the Buddha knew what he was doing and did exactly what he knew would be of the most benefit in the long run. I'm also saying, you have no idea what he did outside of the small amount that was recorded, neither of us know the nuances. So, you are making a large assumption. Maybe he did stand up more, maybe he caused village uprisings even? Who knows?? You sure don't.

 

I do read the Suttas (not so much anymore, but I've read quite a few in the past and I am open to reading more). So far I haven't found a single Sutta describing Buddha turning someone away from the caste system in a way that clearly exposes the caste system as a bad and immoral system.

 

Yes, read more. Sometimes you have to read between the lines as well. He is well known as a person who did not support the caste system. I've read many situations where he made this quite clear. But, as far as page numbers, Sutta names, etc. I've never had that type of memory.

 

First, ralis is very intelligent. Second, ralis has had plenty of personal experience within the Buddhist system. Just because he arrived at a different conclusion about it does not mean he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Intelligence doesn't make for deep spiritual experience. There are many intelligent people in the world, most of whom are blocked by their intelligence, like for instance Stephen Hawking's is one fine example. I respect the man for his type of genius, for his level of knowledge, but no further. Just because ralis has been there, doesn't mean he saw it with open eyes. It's very clear to me he didn't, as his negative and disparaging remarks over the last few years reveal. His perception is suffering from hyper critical tendencies. I see you falter from that from time to time as well.

 

Most times, it's better to sit, watch with an open and clear mind that has no personal thought projections clouding the subtle analysis of the situation. In fact, that is where true genius comes from, a space within pryer to thought that self transcends.

 

In fact, are there any people who disagree with you about the value of Buddhism, whom you consider knowledgeable? If the answer is "no" then you need to look yourself in the mirror and face your bias.

 

Being knowledgeable is not the same as being wise, or insightful.

 

I think ralis does know what he's talking about. You or I may not agree with his conclusions, but to say he simply doesn't know what he is criticizing is very dishonest. He certainly knows that which he criticizes in every way a person can reasonably know in terms of this convention. He's got plenty of intelligence, plenty of experience both mundane and spiritual, so what else does he need to know?

 

I disagree with the "spiritual" assessment. He is constantly expressing that he see's only the dark side of the moon. He ignores all positive facts. He sees monasteries as places where kids get raped, he sees Rinpoches as prisoners of hierarchy. I'm not surprised that you agree with him on many of his points. What I say is, yes... plenty are, and yes, this does happen in some monasteries. What I say is, that yes, there are those Rinpoches who are imprisoned by these concepts, and there are these occurrences that happen in monasteries of all spiritual traditions around the planet, not just Buddhist. But, I don't focus on that. Also, when I think of inspiring Christianity, I don't think of the witch burnings and all the atrocities done under the name of Christianity. I think of my readings of St. John of the Cross, or St. Francis of Assisi, or the Desert Fathers who wrote the Philokalia. Or when I think of inspired Islam, I think of Rumi, Hafiz, Rabia or Mansur Mastana, I don't even think of Muhammad or the Koran too much, even though there is some good stuff in there as well.

 

It's the same with my own tradition. Our mind becomes like that which it focuses upon! Not that it doesn't see all the other stuff, of course I see that stuff, but I don't dwell there and let it take away from the true purpose of being on a spiritual path that has brought countless others to the goal of inwardly liberated while living. If I was in a position to stop a senior monk from raping a little kid in a monastery, I would do so. But, at the same time, in that same monastery, there is a monk attaining ever widening states of pure insight, writing amazing commentaries on ancient texts. Just like NYC, sure, I could go to the South Bronx and sit in the gutter and focus on all the crime and grime happening there, or I could go to 30th St. between 6th and 7th Ave in Manhattan and go to a Ganapuja and offer blessings to people the world over on an energetic level. As we are indeed all connected as Physicists are finding more and more proof for. It's really up to you, what you internalize and make yours, or embellish upon.

 

What's the size of your head? Perhaps you speak from experience?

 

I do, which is why I had a hard time initially when entering an Ashram atmosphere, coming straight from the streets with my street hustle money in order to escape the streets and find some deeper purpose in life almost 20 years ago. At first I did it for escape and I was judgmental as well as judged. But, I kept at the practices, kept offering my x-drug dealer money to spiritual tools, and kept reading the texts which made sense on a level past my judgements, as I saw my judgements arising, but I also saw them for what they were, personal thought projections clouding direct viewing. As I kept meditating, more and more, for longer hours per day, having luminous experiences, revealing the nooks and crannies of my justifications for egoic reactions, finding their causes on a formless, non-conceptual level, and unknotting them. My street tough ego head used to protect me in the crime and grime, got replaced with a spiritual ego, and yes, at times that head was big too, or still is at times. It's subtle, nuanced and complicated, but at least I was and am grounding myself into something positive and as a result, a more positive inner landscape started and is still taking shape. I won't bore anyone with the details of expanding compassion from within to without, crying hours and hours away lifetimes of pain and grief, the emotional tole of the mundane toil. As I shed the coil of so many hardened identities, I really started to see that my judgements and criticisms were really just reflections of pain coming to light, but by mis-understanding the source and placing the blame externally, these judgments were getting in the way of experiencing life directly and clearly, as well as getting in the way of seeing information from deeper, more insightful angles.

 

Sure, but rituals are the dross you're trying to leave behind. It's like cleaning shit with more shit. It just gets smellier. Convention is a ritual. Free life is life beyond convention. It's a life beyond ritual. You can't leave rituals behind by following rituals.

 

You use a thorn to take out a thorn then toss both away. You're using metaphors that justify your chaos. If you read the texts of any spiritual master, they became as they are by replacing negative rituals with positive rituals. Life is time, and how you spend your time defines your life. If you can't get this, if you don't understand what I'm saying, you are not ready for a true spiritual path that is time tested and has liberated countless beings since before this Earth even came into existence. Your vision is clouded if you can't see this. Even after these beings attained inward liberation through positive ritual, they continued the rituals, not as a practice, but as celebration. Mantra repetition which is repeating the state of mind of the Buddhas in word formation is bliss! Chanting the sounds of the elements while seeing their colors, their radiance's is bliss and it's uplifting the world! Of course if your spirituality is stuck in your intellect, you can't see directly how these Tantric practices actually weren't invented by those that were practicing, but by those that had attained the fruit of practicing the lower yanas and through compassion, shared their insights and helped others by designing these forms of yogas for the sake of both helping people get to their inner purity, but also as a way to show people how inner purity is expressed.

 

When Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche chants the Song of the Vajra, or does the mantras of the 5 elements, he's not doing it as a practice anymore, it's an expression of his inner state, from where these practices come from to begin with.

 

Like I said, if you and ralis don't get it, you're not ready to get it. These rituals are not mundane rituals, unless you are working through your density, then they will seem as such, and I've been there, felt that, still do from time to time. But, mostly, these rituals are expressions of bliss, liberation, compassion, they are ways of celebration!

Edited May 31, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Conventions are not good or bad in their fundamental uses. It becomes bad or potentially fatal only when people fixate on them, leading to diminished or narrowed perspectives. Abiding by conventions, it is hoped that due diligence could be cultivated as a new habit that replaces the old ones of carelessness, laziness and disregard.

 

Perhaps we could apply a similar attitude to spiritual conventions and rituals? There is a pop phrase which says that the right tools in the wrong hands are useless, and similarly, the trained hand, without tools, while appearing free, may have no direction in which to follow.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Concise, brilliant!! Thanks for that.

[Vajrahridaya]

I believe you are stating a quandary that can never be reconciled. If as you claim that during the time of the Buddha there were no extensive historical records created as to what the Buddha taught, then making any definitive proclamation as to the veracity of the Buddha's teachings, is erroneous.

 

Direct experience without conceptual quandaries speaks volumes to your own heart without saying a word.

[JustARandomPanda]

Most times, it's better to sit, watch with an open and clear mind that has no personal thought projections clouding the subtle analysis of the situation.

 

THIS!

 

I am finding it sooooo damn difficult to do this. And I don't even know why I find it so hard. It just is. Do you know how hard it is to go for a single day with zero judgements or contemplation whatsoever? Even just as an exercise to see what might be different from one's usual preferred tool or method of operation?

 

I actually made a New Year's Resolution to go 3 months without having any contemplation analysis whatsoever. I didn't last five minutes.

 

I have become highly suspicious of contemplation held forth as the path to Enlightenment. I get that for some people contemplation and logical analysis are the royal road to getting there but for me that isn't the right path at all.

 

For me it is about getting that direct experience - no more using contemplation or reason or analysis as the tool please. My mind is already drowning in those as it is. It's exhausting. Who ever knew it would be such a hard battle to battle one's self? Ugh.

[Vajrahridaya]

Ok so something I hear a lot, especially on this thread is "Read the Sutras".

 

"The" Sutras? Got any links?

Theravada Library

Mahayana Library

Vajrayana Library

Some practice texts from Vajrayana Buddhism

 

Just a few links.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Also, I wanted to add that replacing some of the meats in the 5 meats ceremony really defeats the entire point of the ritual. I believe you did say the components were "watered down." So I assume at least some of the meats were fake.

 

The meats aren't fake, like soy meat or something, just no sperm or period juice. That would have to be kept to private rituals.

[ralis]

Direct experience without conceptual quandaries speaks volumes to your own heart without saying a word.

 

I am tired of you berating me and further, you know nothing as to what my personal experiences and realizations are!

 

Why not go away and find your own forum that suits you best! People like you that hang around the dharma are the main reason I left it. The ego inflation was just too much.

[Vajrahridaya]

THIS!

 

I am finding it sooooo damn difficult to do this. And I don't even know why I find it so hard. It just is. Do you know how hard it is to go for a single day with zero judgements or contemplation whatsoever? Even just as an exercise to see what might be different from one's usual preferred tool or method of operation?

 

I actually made a New Year's Resolution to go 3 months without having any contemplation analysis whatsoever. I didn't last five minutes.

 

I have become highly suspicious of contemplation held forth as the path to Enlightenment. I get that for some people contemplation and logical analysis are the royal road to getting there but for me that isn't the right path at all.

 

For me it is about getting that direct experience - no more using contemplation or reason or analysis as the tool please. My mind is already drowning in those as it is. It's exhausting. Who ever knew it would be such a hard battle to battle one's self? Ugh.

 

Hi there Blue!

 

Ok, one clarification... When the Eastern texts say contemplation, they mean exactly what you quoted from me above. That's contemplation. Logical analysis is a different thing, and it's good to have, but without contemplation as I defined it above, logical analysis is a closed loop.

 

It takes years of good, hardcore discipline to the sitting practice of calm abiding and samadhi to get what you are looking for. It can take only a few weeks, a few months to really start feeling it, but it has to be ritualized. Even if you don't want to do it, or your moods are fighting it. You do it anyway. You pick a time in the morning, preferably before all the worries of the day take over and before you are tired from the day's toil. I started at 10 minutes, to half an hour, to multiple hours. Many times I found that doing an invigorating traditional chant in sanskrit helps immensely as it hones the intention. Chanting, then meditating, as a ritual, everyday, can become the best part of the day! Then, when that fruit starts to really blossom, that energy carries on into the rest of the day as well!

 

I am a strong supporter of traditional practice rituals, time tested and Buddha approved! As they work!! Over and over again, they work... you just have to work through the inner dross, the mental resistance, the emotional pain.

[JustARandomPanda]

Hmm...learn something new everyday. I did not realize contemplation is just sitting in calm abiding (with..I presume...no thoughts arising or at least seldom enough you can adequately pay attention to the few that do).

 

Ok. In that case I guess I've never achieved true contemplation. Damn it's so hard to get.

 

Let me clarify. I am suspicious of analysis and reason held out as the primary royal road to Enlightenment. Mainly because if those methods worked I should already be a Buddha. And I'm definitely not despite worshipping at the shrine of logic and reason for years. I got a library of books on logic - both formal and informal. Fat lot of good it's done me when it comes to direct experience.

 

Edit: If you want to see someone who has logical anaylis set to Overdrive check out the Amazon reviews of Bruce Bain. All Logic (including a familiarity with many forms of less-well-known Hindu and Buddhist Yoga and Tantras) but little else. He delights in using Reason to rip to shreds other people's book reviews. Well that and he also uses ridicule. But whatever.

[ralis]

Hmm...learn something new everyday. I did not realize contemplation is just sitting in calm abiding (with..I presume...no thoughts arising or at least seldom enough you can adequately pay attention to the few that do).

 

Ok. In that case I guess I've never achieved true contemplation. Damn it's so hard to get.

 

Let me clarify. I am suspicious of analysis and reason held out as the primary royal road to Enlightenment. Mainly because if those methods worked I should already be a Buddha. And I'm definitely not despite worshipping at the shrine of logic and reason for years. I got a library of books on logic - both formal and informal. Fat lot of good it's done me when it comes to direct experience.

 

Edit: If you want to see someone who has logical anaylis set to Overdrive check out the Amazon reviews of Bruce Bain. All Logic (including a familiarity with many forms of less-well-known Hindu and Buddhist Yoga and Tantras) but little else. He delights in using Reason to rip to shreds other people's book reviews. Well that and he also uses ridicule. But whatever.

 

 

Sky gazing is an excellent way to contemplate. Thoughts just come and go when doing that practice.

[Vajrahridaya]

Hmm...learn something new everyday. I did not realize contemplation is just sitting in calm abiding (with..I presume...no thoughts arising or at least seldom enough you can adequately pay attention to the few that do).

 

Well, slightly different from sitting meditation. At least how it's defined in Eastern traditions. Contemplation is more like reflecting all arisings on the mirror of ones sitting meditation experience. So, it's not the same as mundane churning, or logic grinding the mind can do at times. It's direct experiential meaning has to be ascertained directly though.

 

Ok. In that case I guess I've never achieved true contemplation. Damn it's so hard to get.

 

Let me clarify. I am suspicious of analysis and reason held out as the primary royal road to Enlightenment. Mainly because if those methods worked I should already be a Buddha. And I'm definitely not despite worshipping at the shrine of logic and reason for years. I got a library of books on logic - both formal and informal. Fat lot of good it's done me when it comes to direct experience.

 

Edit: If you want to see someone who has logical anaylis set to Overdrive check out the Amazon reviews of Bruce Bain. All Logic (including a familiarity with many forms of less-well-known Hindu and Buddhist Yoga and Tantras) but little else. He delights in using Reason to rip to shreds other people's book reviews. Well that and he also uses ridicule. But whatever.

 

Well... if you are truly on the spiritual path, you couple logical analysis with sitting meditation, thereby you have a deeper inner experience to reflect your logic off of. This can't really be talked about, it has to be done. Like I said earlier in this thread, this thick forrest has to be walked through, body and mind, not just mind. This is why the Masters of Buddhas earlier teachings taught the yogas, and all the other types of sitting techniques, not to bind people by empty rituals, but to help people get to the Buddha within much faster.

 

p.s. I'm talking about this Bruce Blain guy.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[JustARandomPanda]

Sky gazing is an excellent way to contemplate. Thoughts just come and go when doing that practice.

 

This sounds interesting. I may have to go to the park and try that out.

[goldisheavy]

THIS!

 

I am finding it sooooo damn difficult to do this. And I don't even know why I find it so hard. It just is. Do you know how hard it is to go for a single day with zero judgements or contemplation whatsoever?

 

I know what you mean. As soon as I realize I made no judgements whatsoever, I realize I just made a judgement about my lack of judgments. If I could just make myself stupid again, this wouldn't be a problem anymore. Ignorance is bliss.

[goldisheavy]

Intelligence doesn't make for deep spiritual experience.

 

It does. It's what stabilizes the experience.

 

There are many intelligent people in the world, most of whom are blocked by their intelligence, like for instance Stephen Hawking's is one fine example. I respect the man for his type of genius, for his level of knowledge, but no further.

 

Stephen Hawking is not interested in something other than physicality. If he was, then his great intelligence would allow him to instantly bypass all kinds of stupid detours and misguided paths and jump straight to fruition stage of whatever he was after. Once he had an experience he was interested in, he would stabilize it very quickly on the account of his great intelligence.

 

Intelligence does not control your aims. It's an enabling faculty of mind. If you want to be stupid, and you happen to be intelligent, you can be amazingly stupid. If you want to be a runner, and you're intelligent, you'll be a great runner all else being the same. And so on. Whatever your aim is intelligence enables and stabilizes it.

 

Just because ralis has been there, doesn't mean he saw it with open eyes. It's very clear to me he didn't, as his negative and disparaging remarks over the last few years reveal.

 

So you're saying that someone who knows something can never utter a disparaging remark about that something?

 

Taking this logic a step further...

 

Someone who knows disparaging remarks does not protest such remarks, but rather appreciates them?

 

Is that what you're trying to say?

[Vajrahridaya]

It does. It's what stabilizes the experience.

 

 

Only if you've had the experience by going deeper than the intellect. Yes, the intellect is needed in order to stabilize and integrate the experiences of deeper formless realities.

 

Stephen Hawking is not interested in something other than physicality. If he was, then his great intelligence would allow him to instantly bypass all kinds of stupid detours and misguided paths and jump straight to fruition stage of whatever he was after. Once he had an experience he was interested in, he would stabilize it very quickly on the account of his great intelligence.

 

Yes, I'm sure he has an intellect that would comprehend the nuances of Vajrayana and Dzogchen. He's very intelligent, and yes... I agree, his only interest is in Physicality, but to the point of absolutely denying the validity of the spirituality of the Buddhas, which is revelatory of the type of intelligence he has.

 

Intelligence does not control your aims. It's an enabling faculty of mind. If you want to be stupid, and you happen to be intelligent, you can be amazingly stupid. If you want to be a runner, and you're intelligent, you'll be a great runner all else being the same. And so on. Whatever your aim is intelligence enables and stabilizes it.

 

I am not disparaging intelligence, that wasn't my point at all. I agree on all you've stated here.

 

So you're saying that someone who knows something can never utter a disparaging remark about that something?

 

Taking this logic a step further...

 

Someone who knows disparaging remarks does not protest such remarks, but rather appreciates them?

 

Is that what you're trying to say?

 

No, I'm saying in this case, which is a particular case, referencing the arguments between ralis and I, is that I feel he is not knowing Buddhism in particular, from a deeper, subtler, vantage point. I don't feel that he "get's it." Thus, his disparaging remarks I do feel arise from a genuine misunderstanding of the import of Buddhist traditions.

 

I also feel that your anti-dogma is a dogma. These rituals that are taught by the Buddha (he definitely taught rituals such as meditation, and regulated eating, etc.) and subsequent Buddhas are something that takes up a persons time in life, and replace other less helpful rituals in order to bring people closer to self transcendence or rather insight into the self. There is a ladder to climb when it comes to spiritual evolution, and a very important part of that ladder is what you call the dogmas, but what I call positive ritual that lead to deepened and elongated access to those inner spaces of genius that transcend the intellect, yet are stabilized and integrated into this 3 dimensional platform, through the intellect.

 

Even paths that talk about instant enlightenment like Dzogchen and Zen, utilize the gradual path of supporting positive ritual even while holding the view of liberation is here and now. so it's not one way or another, it's a holistic sphere, which makes a spiritual path with positive ritual, very important and not to be shunned by this new age, everything is dogma ideal.

 

The type of ritual the Buddha was against, were the rituals in the Vedas that required animal sacrifice for the gods, and things of that nature. He most definitely taught ritualistic meditation practices, as well as walking vipassana practices. So many beings attained liberation and had various experiences from these practices that they became teaching Buddhas of the Vajrayana lineage. They saw into the energy of the elements of being and intuitively and creatively manifested rituals that utilize these levels of experience for the sake of both the celebration of these states of deepened consciousness as well as tools for driving other sentient beings into the states of consciousness from which these practice rituals arose.

 

Weather has a ritual, animals have rituals, bugs, the ocean, etc. all for their own reasons. The Buddhist field of rituals are also there for it's own reason, which is liberation from psychological bondage, but that is only if you contemplate their deeper meaning and don't do them mechanically. Otherwise, they are as useless or as harmful as a baby with a lighter. This is why, Vajrayana is not for everyone.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Immortal4life]

Theravada Library

Mahayana Library

Vajrayana Library

Some practice texts from Vajrayana Buddhism

 

Just a few links.

 

Ok thank you very much. I am very interested in Buddhism, because I naturally am inclined to believe in many of the things it talks about.

 

The problem is, I know nothing about it really. I have no idea where to start. I don't even know the difference between Theravada, Mahayana, and Vajrayana. But I want to learn all the most powerful styles and systems including those 3. I also in addition want to learn Pure Land Buddhism. I don't know how to go about that.

 

I also want to learn Tibetan Buddhism, including Yoga methods. I want to get Tummo, like this here. This video shows Tummo by a westerner, so we know that westerners can get it. How do you get it?-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNjiHNUMKdY

 

I also want to get Trulkhor Tibetan Yoga, it is something that I am drawn to and very interested in-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG6w036k8u4

 

I am also extremely attracted to the changing mudra postures made by Tibetan Buddhists, I want this-

 

Buddhism is certainly extremely powerful. I am so attracted to it, and yet, I don't know how to go about getting it. Where do you learn it? I find some of the concepts hard to fathom and sometimes my mind turns to mush. Any help in explaining the whole thing might be useful..........

Edited June 1, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Buddhism is certainly extremely powerful. I am so attracted to it, and yet, I don't know how to go about getting it. Where do you learn it? I find some of the concepts hard to fathom and sometimes my mind turns to mush. Any help in explaining the whole thing might be useful..........

 

Wow, that's all very beautiful, yes, I've seen all these videos as well! This type of longing is good.

 

Vajrayana is very powerful, and it's excellent that you are showing interest in these things. What I would suggest you do, is find a Sangha near you, and pick up a good book that puts these things into perspective. A book by the Dalai Lama maybe, or by a well known scholar would be good for starters. But, to learn this tradition, you will need guidance from a sangha and guru in order to learn these beautiful and beneficial rituals.

 

Mingyur Rinpoche has some good, straightforward books He's definitely a great master, and worthy of reading.

 

You can do a google search for a Sangha, just put in your zip code in the google search engine and then type Buddhism, or Buddhist. You could PM me and tell me where you are located, just the city and state or city and country, province, whatever... and I will help you.

[ralis]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I'm saying in this case, which is a particular case, referencing the arguments between ralis and I, is that I feel he is not knowing Buddhism in particular, from a deeper, subtler, vantage point. I don't feel that he "get's it." Thus, his disparaging remarks I do feel arise from a genuine misunderstanding of the import of Buddhist traditions.

 

 

Weather has a ritual, animals have rituals, bugs, the ocean, etc. all for their own reasons. The Buddhist field of rituals are also there for it's own reason, which is liberation from psychological bondage, but that is only if you contemplate their deeper meaning and don't do them mechanically. Otherwise, they are as useless or as harmful as a baby with a lighter. This is why, Vajrayana is not for everyone.

 

Perhaps I went beyond the Buddhas teachings and found a more subtle vantage point. Just because people worship and revere the Buddha does not make him the universal teacher. Humans are very adept at anthropocentric projections which usually have a religious basis.

 

Weather has a ritual? What does that mean? I guess the weather has self awareness?

Edited June 1, 2011 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Ok thank you very much. I am very interested in Buddhism, because I naturally am inclined to believe in many of the things it talks about.

 

This video above is one of the types of yogas I've practiced over the years. This is a little explanation by my own Root Guru.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[mYTHmAKER]

 

How many chinese or taiwanese masters can meditate for 6 days without food or water? Let alone 6 months or 6 years?

 

None I have seen so far..

 

Why da hell did I waste so much time in China and Taiwan?

 

No Chinese master will ever go as high as the Tibetan/Indian yogis..

 

We had an guy who used to walk on water. He's supposed to be back one of these days.

Me, I can swim a little.

Edited June 1, 2011 by mYTHmAKER

[Vajrahridaya]

We had an guy who used to walk on water. He's supposed to be back one of these days.

Me, I can swim a little.

 

LOL!! That's awesome!! I can run on water for about 1/2 a second... it's really cool!

[Aetherous]