Dependent Origination

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

ignorance manifest from one that has no idea what it's like. Ya really don't.

 

Balancing virtue, telepathy and energetic psychic-ness as well as self investigation

 

 

 

Commentary brought to you by:

 

 

Vajrahridaya™

"Balancing virtue, telepathy and energetic psychic-ness as well as self investigation, 24/7/365!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

couldn't resist, sorry

Edited February 7, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

Commentary brought to you by:

 

 

Vajrahridaya™

"Balancing virtue, telepathy and energetic psychic-ness as well as self investigation, 24/7/365!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

couldn't resist, sorry

 

 

It's ok, it's true, we are both infinitely inter-dependently individual. We are dualistically non-dual.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

Maybe you should try it some day? See how you can apply virtue to it's quality of service?

 

No thanks!

[三江源]

.

Edited April 13, 2015 by 三江源

[Marblehead]

Nah, it's a concept for those that have transcended the appearance of it.

 

Hehehe. I like the way you said that even though I don't agree with you.

[Marblehead]

No, because it's missing emptiness.

 

Of course it isn't missing emptiness. If nothing has caused something to exist then there is emptiness.

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Marblehead]

Not many here have understood directly the implications of "infinite regress" because most of you apply a true and self standing essence to everything which is Alpha and Omega...

 

Not Buddhist.

 

You are probably pretty dead on with that statement.

[Marblehead]

 

P.S. Marblehead where in the fuck did you get that misunderstanding of D.O. from? The insight into it addresses all of those points that you brought up and more.

 

I got it from many of the Buddhists who post here. Don't blame the student, blame the teacher if you think I misunderstand the concept (and that is all it is, a concept, a theory that cannot be tested) of D.O.

 

And no, I have no intention of studying Buddhism again. Many years ago I laid it aside as a philosophy/religion that I was not interested in following.

 

Is there any specific aspect of my misunderstanding you wish to speak to so that we might discuss it? Blank statements like the one you just made are very inefficient.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Marblehead

[ralis]

the use of language was complained about and so removed in a way that left the meaning clear without the language which others found very offensive.

 

The language that was removed is part of the context. You changed the intent and feel of the post. That is censorship.

[adept]

D. O does not need to be as complex as it has been described here.

You don't need to be a Buddhist or a Daoist or whatever to understand it either.

The way I see it is that everything is constantly changing, nothing stays still, not for a moment.

Permanent impermenance if you like. Constant flux, continual movement.

For these infinite changes to happen, certain conditions need to be present.

Because of this...that arises. Conditionality.

These conditions are themselves dependent on other conditions ad infinitum....

Examples can be found everywhere in the natural world, in our ever changing thoughts, in our bodily awareness, in our meditation as we notice things arising and ceasing.

Everything changes, all the time, but I can have some control over my own life by the choices I make.

What have I gained from this realization ?

That whatever I do, think of, act upon, can have consequences that affect not only me but all who I come into contact with. This makes me more thoughtful as to how I go about life.

D.O, emptiness, cause and effect, impermenance, mindfulness are all linked together. But it is D.O that binds it all together.

D.O is not mere mental masturbation, it is a practical guide to life.

Edited February 7, 2011 by adept

[rex]

D. O does not need to be as complex as it has been described here.

You don't need to be a Buddhist or a Daoist or whatever to understand it either.

The way I see it is that everything is constantly changing, nothing stays still, not for a moment.

Permanent impermenance if you like. Constant flux, continual movement.

For these infinite changes to happen, certain conditions need to be present.

Because of this...that arises. Conditionality.

These conditions are themselves dependent on other conditions ad infinitum....

Examples can be found everywhere in the natural world, in our ever changing thoughts, in our bodily awareness, in our meditation as we notice things arising and ceasing.

Everything changes, all the time, but I can have some control over my own life by the choices I make.

What have I gained from this realization ?

That whatever I do, think of, act upon, can have consequences that affect not only me but all who I come into contact with. This makes me more thoughtful as to how I go about life.

D.O, emptiness, cause and effect, impermenance, mindfulness are all linked together. But it is D.O that binds it all together.

D.O is not mere mental masturbation, it is a practical guide to life.

 

Superb! If only this fine explanation appeared earlier on - it would have saved a lot of grim reading.

[Stigweard]

It was taught to me that, before the complication of written language, the ancients expressed their insight in primordial symbols. I was instructed to sit with a symbol and explore its meaning without attempting to describe it. I think this symbol sums up dependent origination quite succinctly.

 

[Vajrahridaya]

D. O does not need to be as complex as it has been described here.

You don't need to be a Buddhist or a Daoist or whatever to understand it either.

The way I see it is that everything is constantly changing, nothing stays still, not for a moment.

Permanent impermenance if you like. Constant flux, continual movement.

For these infinite changes to happen, certain conditions need to be present.

Because of this...that arises. Conditionality.

These conditions are themselves dependent on other conditions ad infinitum....

Examples can be found everywhere in the natural world, in our ever changing thoughts, in our bodily awareness, in our meditation as we notice things arising and ceasing.

Everything changes, all the time, but I can have some control over my own life by the choices I make.

What have I gained from this realization ?

That whatever I do, think of, act upon, can have consequences that affect not only me but all who I come into contact with. This makes me more thoughtful as to how I go about life.

D.O, emptiness, cause and effect, impermenance, mindfulness are all linked together. But it is D.O that binds it all together.

D.O is not mere mental masturbation, it is a practical guide to life.

 

Bravo!!

 

But it also means there is no prime mover, no original source, no one behind the many, no alpha and omega.

 

P.s. oh yeah, and no primordial Self of all.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

It was taught to me that, before the complication of written language, the ancients expressed their insight in primordial symbols. I was instructed to sit with a symbol and explore its meaning without attempting to describe it. I think this symbol sums up dependent origination quite succinctly.

 

 

I agree!!

 

It's one of my favorite symbols... EVER!!! It's one of the only things I'd get tattooed on my body, even though I don't have any and don't plan on getting any.

[Vajrahridaya]

Of course it isn't missing emptiness. If nothing has caused something to exist then there is emptiness.

 

That's call nothing, not emptiness.

 

Emptiness means, "no essence," basically. So neither nothing, nor does something have any essence. Both nothing and something are empty of inherent existence and are merely relative.

[三江源]

.

Edited April 13, 2015 by 三江源

[adept]

Bravo!!

 

But it also means there is no prime mover, no original source, no one behind the many, no alpha and omega.

 

P.s. oh yeah, and no primordial Self of all.

 

 

Yes. The groundless ground.

[ralis]

This discussion still generally lies in the realm of theory and no real world experience. Ya Mu requested examples and none are given. The Buddhists still remain in airy fairy land and will never want to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty for fear of a contaminated DO experience.

[Vajrahridaya]

This discussion still generally lies in the realm of theory and no real world experience. Ya Mu requested examples and none are given. The Buddhists still remain in airy fairy land and will never want to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty for fear of a contaminated DO experience.

 

Meanwhile, on Earth, outside of ralis' head, people are still attaining Buddhahood, the rainbow body, as well as helping people due to the compassion that arises in their hearts through study and direct experience of DO/Emptiness.

 

YEAH for D.O.!! Much better than b.o. Phew!

[ralis]

Meanwhile, on Earth, outside of ralis' head, people are still attaining Buddhahood, the rainbow body, as well as helping people due to the compassion that arises in their hearts through study and direct experience of DO/Emptiness.

 

YEAH for D.O.!! Much better than b.o. Phew!

 

I don't need to study anything. I was born with great compassion. That is natural to me.

[adept]

This discussion still generally lies in the realm of theory and no real world experience. Ya Mu requested examples and none are given. The Buddhists still remain in airy fairy land and will never want to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty for fear of a contaminated DO experience.

 

As a result of studying the theory and applying it in real life, I am now more considerate towards others.

Every thought, word and deed of mine has an effect on anyone and anything I come into contact with.

Therefore, careful consideration is needed before an act is performed.

In this way genuine compassion is a natural outcome.

This is all I will say on the matter. I don't wish to get caught up in repetitive and meaningless mega-posting.

[Otis]

The only difference between a Buddha and a human is that a Buddha sees "reality" correctly.

Nonsense! There is no difference "between a Buddha and a human"! A Buddha is an awakened human, not a non-human.

 

Nor does a Buddha "see" "reality" "correctly". (I had to put all of those words in quotes, because none of them make sense).

 

A Buddha is, of course, a human being, with the same senses, and the same brain. She does not view in the infrared, nor does she see sonar. She cannot view through solid objects, nor is she privy to the "true nature" of anything.

 

What a Buddha has is merely ALL of the potential of a human being. What makes her different is that the rest of us put our conditioning and our separation between ourselves and immediate experience of our senses.

 

Note that I wrote "of our sense", not "of reality". We do not experience reality; we only experience our senses' response to reality.

 

The Buddha does not see the ultimate reality, nor can she ever. She merely gets rid of the myth of "ultimate reality" and understands her own limitations will never allow her to fully connect to that reality. She is not a master of "reality" but a master of "internal unity". It is internal unity which allows the full human being (the awakened one) to act without the obstruction of self.

 

In other words, the Buddha is not "the one who knows". The Buddha is instead "the one who accepts that she will never know", the one who "lives in mystery." This is what emptiness is.

[Marblehead]

D. O does not need to be as complex as it has been described here.

 

Excellent post.

 

I will point out that Wayne Wang titled his translation of the TTC "Dynamic Tao" for this exact reason.

[ralis]

Nonsense! There is no difference "between a Buddha and a human"! A Buddha is an awakened human, not a non-human.

 

Nor does a Buddha "see" "reality" "correctly". (I had to put all of those words in quotes, because none of them make sense).

 

A Buddha is, of course, a human being, with the same senses, and the same brain. She does not view in the infrared, nor does she see sonar. She cannot view through solid objects, nor is she privy to the "true nature" of anything.

 

What a Buddha has is merely ALL of the potential of a human being. What makes her different is that the rest of us put our conditioning and our separation between ourselves and immediate experience of our senses.

 

Note that I wrote "of our sense", not "of reality". We do not experience reality; we only experience our senses' response to reality.

 

The Buddha does not see the ultimate reality, nor can she ever. She merely gets rid of the myth of "ultimate reality" and understands her own limitations will never allow her to fully connect to that reality. She is not a master of "reality" but a master of "internal unity". It is internal unity which allows the full human being (the awakened one) to act without the obstruction of self.

 

In other words, the Buddha is not "the one who knows". The Buddha is instead "the one who accepts that she will never know", the one who "lives in mystery." This is what emptiness is.

 

 

 

That is very profound and realistic! Thank you!