Yeshe Lama Thogal book?

[bodyoflight]

Hey guys, I saw a thread about Yeshe Lama Thogal teachings and I am wondering what is the actual title of that book? I googled it and nothing came up. If anyone can give me any hints, that would be good. Thanks.

[ralis]

Hey guys, I saw a thread about Yeshe Lama Thogal teachings and I am wondering what is the actual title of that book? I googled it and nothing came up. If anyone can give me any hints, that would be good. Thanks.

 

It is a Snowlion pub. and they require proof one has had the transmission. I have a copy and it cost me over 100.00 with shipping. A bit too pricey! I loathe the fact that these people still cloak these teachings in such secrecy.

[bodyoflight]

It is a Snowlion pub. and they require proof one has had the transmission. I have a copy and it cost me over 100.00 with shipping. A bit too pricey! I loathe the fact that these people still cloak these teachings in such secrecy.

 

really 100 bucks? shucks.. i think i better forget about it then..

[RongzomFan]

okkk

Edited March 9, 2013 by alwayson

[bodyoflight]

There is actually a better translation since that book came out. It is by Tony Duff.

 

Its called Wisdom Guru by Tony Duff. (Wisdom Guru is the english translation of yeshe lama).

 

At the time of that other thread, it was not known that the snowlion pub was flawed in a lot of ways. I hope I was not responsible for ralis spending $100 LOL.

 

hey alwayson, thank you for your prompt reply..

 

some members are already kind enough to offer me some great knowledge through Private Messaging..

 

I have learnt to always check my Private Messages from now on.. you never know when Santa Claus is gonna call.. LOL..

 

Edited February 2, 2011 by bodyoflight

[RongzomFan]

I loathe the fact that these people still cloak these teachings in such secrecy.

 

 

Would you rather have this information slip into the hands of black mages?

 

There are a ton of magick forums, and lot of people practice black magick etc. Don't take my word for it, you can confirm yourself by going into the magick forums on the internet.

 

Black magick takes EVERYTHING "white" and flips it to make it black.

 

They do it with everthing from Golden Dawn magick (invert the pentagrams etc.), to Goetia (worship the demons instead of subjugating) to even enochian (angelic) magick. They can't help themselves!

 

And my understanding is that this is the traditional concern as per Keith Dowman's commentary in "Flight of the Garuda"

Edited February 2, 2011 by alwayson

[Birch]

Interesting. I just imagine a bunch of nutcases feeding hellish thoughforms and actions and misunderstanding what they are doing to themselves.

 

Are they actually doing anything to others with this stuff? If they're holding living beings captive or coercing people as part of whatever rites they're practicing, I believe that stuff is punishable indirectly (at least in the West) via various legislations about cult practices and brainwashing. Shame we don't use that legislation on some other factions, but I digress

[Vajrahridaya]

Shame we don't use that legislation on some other factions, but I digress

 

Yea, like certain pop cultural spectrums.

[RongzomFan]

Are they actually doing anything to others with this stuff? If they're holding living beings captive or coercing people as part of whatever rites they're practicing, I believe that stuff is punishable indirectly (at least in the West) via various legislations about cult practices and brainwashing. Shame we don't use that legislation on some other factions, but I digress

 

 

Although I was condemning black magicians, black magicians don't usually physically harm others. They use magickal means, which is 100% legal. If anything at most they will use a drop or two of their own blood from a pin prick as offering to demons.

 

Black magicians aren't that bad, as all magicians are generally super nerds and geeks.

 

I just don't want them corrupting sacred teachings...which I know they would.

Edited February 3, 2011 by alwayson

[bodyoflight]

. Edited February 3, 2011 by bodyoflight

[bodyoflight]

Although I was condemning black magicians, black magicians don't usually physically harm others. They use magickal means, which is 100% legal. If anything at most they will use a drop or two of their own blood from a pin prick as offering to demons.

 

Black magicians aren't that bad, as all magicians are generally super nerds and geeks.

 

I just don't want them corrupting sacred teachings...which I know they would.

 

It is impossible to corrupt the teachings of transforming your body into light.

 

Cos this is the ultimate step of evolution of man. The Universe, The Buddhas would never allow the anyone to corrupt this sacred act of the ultimate evolution.

 

The dark does not have as much power as you think. Never forget that even the actions of the dark are controlled or allowed by the Universe and the Buddhas themselves.

 

They are "allowing" the dark to do their shit up to a certain point. But once the dark cross the line, then there will be repercussions.

 

I am not sure what happened to you after you posted information about the thogal and trecko teachings in other forum but I really respect your lack of selfishness and your compassion. You really wanna help other and I can see that.

 

There are a lot of people in here who wanna pull you down. Or there were some people anyway. Let me tell you here and now, that I stand by you for the great compassionate act of spreading the highest Dzogchen teachings for the benefit of others. It takes the heart of a hero to do that.

 

PM me, I have something good for you. Something which will assist you in your path.

[Birch]

"They use magickal means, which is 100% legal."

 

Well, it depends where you live.

 

I'd love to imagine a grand jury of some kind that takes such things seriously and keeps the nastier forces in check (like Justin Bieber )

 

We're not being very kind to our shamans these days Seems to me to be what the pantheons were for. Didn't/don't the Taoists have a heavenly government of some kind? A monotheistic "father" god doesn't seem to be able to cut it because not everyone can identify (in fact, I read "out there" that some "progressive" ministers are demasculinizing God.) The catholics do better with their saints I think but not everywhere.

[Shen Chi Jing]

There is actually a better translation since that book came out. It is by Tony Duff.

 

Its called Wisdom Guru by Tony Duff. (Wisdom Guru is the english translation of yeshe lama).

 

At the time of that other thread, it was not known that the snowlion pub was flawed in a lot of ways. I hope I was not responsible for ralis spending $100 LOL.

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

How much is Tony Duff's translation?

 

http://www.tibet.dk/pktc/studyguide.htm

 

It looks like not just anyone can purchase this translation either.

 

$100 is nothing for having that level of practice-instruction though.

 

Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen's Heart Drops of Dharmakaya (Snow Lion Publications) implies that the book Heart Drops of Dharmakaya is a complete Dzogchen practice, that is, with one exception: A note by Lopon Tenzin Namdak explains that one of the Rushen practices related to purifying the Six Lokas of Samsara is missing, but that it is found in the Zhang Zhung Nyan-Gyud. So I'm checking up on Vajranatha's and Lopon Tenzin Namdak's books on this Cycle to see if it's in either book. It looks like the Guru Yoga practice is included in the former, which I'm sure would be very wise to perform everyday before doing the practices found in Heart Drops of Dharmakaya.

 

It would be great to study the Yeshe Lama in order to see if Heart Drops of Dharmakaya actually has everything (after all, the latter is publicly available for anyone to buy).

Edited October 17, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[JustARandomPanda]

I'd love to imagine a grand jury of some kind that takes such things seriously and keeps the nastier forces in check (like Justin Bieber )

 

 

ROFLMAO!!

[Shen Chi Jing]

Would you rather have this information slip into the hands of black mages?

 

Hm, I wonder what someone who is consciously practicing black magic could do with such practices?

 

 

There are a ton of magick forums, and lot of people practice black magick etc. Don't take my word for it, you can confirm yourself by going into the magick forums on the internet.

 

These are people who have powers, and they have powers because they have knowledge, but it is knowledge and power in Hell. People like this are as common as weeds; they are everywhere. They are very vigorous in spreading their teaching. So vigorous, that once you learn about Gnosis, you will see their teaching in sitcoms, in movies, televisions shows, in music, in magazines, but veiled. Not explicit, but it is always there: using desire to entice us, to have money, to have power, to have beauty, to have fame, to have recognition. There are many, many millions who follow that path. That is why Jesus said,

 

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Matthew 7

 

It is very easy to awaken the consciousness in Klipoth, because more or less 97% of our consciousness is already there.

 

If a ball is 97% hanging over the edge of a precipice, how easy is it to push over the edge? Now, how easy is it to push it back the other way? It is not. That is our situation right now. This is why we are very, very explicit and very, very detailed in how we express this doctrine.

 

 

Black magick takes EVERYTHING "white" and flips it to make it black.

 

Likewise, Channeling and Spiritualism (appearance of entities through Mediums) are related. Both play upon the naive, and take advantage of the foolish.

 

Atlantian, Egyptian, Babylon, Greece, Scandinavia, etc., fell because of these practices of black magic, and in this day and age there are many schools and teachers who continue to propagate this Atlantis, Egypt, Babylon, Greece, Scandinavia, etc., black magic. It all looks Gnostic because all of them were once white magic. So they use the same terms, names, etc and even practices that look very similar.

 

That is why we need to be very careful as to what we study and practice. We need to investigate the teachings to determine where they come from and what purpose they truly have. Samael Aun Weor spoke regularly about this.

 

 

They do it with everthing from Golden Dawn magick (invert the pentagrams etc.), to Goetia (worship the demons instead of subjugating) to even enochian (angelic) magick. They can't help themselves!

 

Who Are the Black Lodges and Who Decides...

 

 

And my understanding is that this is the traditional concern as per Keith Dowman's commentary in "Flight of the Garuda

 

It's very interesting that you bring this up. Now don't quote me on this, but I think I remember seeing a reference to Aleister Crowley in one of his books, a reference to him that someone also mentioned on a Amazon.com review for Longchenpa's Old Man Basking in the Sun, I believe.

 

Although in his commentary on Flight of the Garuda, Keith Dowman specifically warns us about the potential danger that exists for any Dzogchen practitioner falling into black magic. And I do like Keith Dowman's writings and commentaries, however some things don't seem to add up, like how in Sky Dancer Keith Dowman acknowledges that in the Completion Stages, to reach orgasm incurs the karma of slaying a Buddha, but then he goes on to seemingly imply that it's okay for a Dzogchen practitioner to expel semen (Thigle/Bodhicitta):

 

Keith Dowman's commentary: Sky Dancer

 

"First Truth: To have absolute consciousness of pain and bitterness.

 

"Second Truth: Pain is the child of fornication, and whosoever spills the semen (reaches the orgasm) is a fornicator. This is a tremendous Truth!"

 

Third Truth: We have an “I” that must be decapitated and dissolved in order to incarnate the Verb, the Christ.

 

Fourth Truth: We can only decapitate and dissolve the prince of this world, the “I,” with the Arcanum A.Z.F.(White Tantra)."

"When one studies the Tantra of the Böns, one realizes that it is white, not black; I repeat, white. They transmute the sperm into energy in order to attain deep realization"

"People forget that the Dalai Lama says that EVERY spiritual teacher should lead a life of purity and sancitity."

 

One could argue that Dzogchen is beyond Tantra; but even so, I just don't see any benefit in releasing Thigle/Bodhicitta under any circumstance. Once your body gets use to Sexual Yoga without orgasm, you see how pointless orgasm is and how damaging it is to the mind.

 

Now I'm not saying that Keith Dowman is saying that it's okay to release Thigle/Bodhicitta; however it seems like he's implying that it's okay for Dzogchen practitioners to. But I don't know for sure either way.

 

Anyway, there are also other translations of Flight of the Garuda.

 

And:

 

http://www.tibet.dk/pktc/whats_new.htm

 

 

Sarva Mangalam

Edited November 3, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[Padma Norbu]

Why are you talking about Samael Aun Weor? He doesn't have anything to do with Dzogchen or thogyal practice.

 

Keith Dowman acknowledges that in the Completion Stages, to reach orgasm incurs the karma of slaying a Buddha, but then he goes on to imply that it's okay for a Dzogchen practitioner to expel semen

 

This would seem to indicate the difference between Vajrayana and Dzogchen, don't you think (conceptual framework vs. beyond concepts)?

 

Can you provide the full quote? My guess is that this idea that orgasm "incurs the karma of slaying a Buddha" is probably figurative and a reference to inner work in tantra towards your own Buddhahood that is sabotaged by orgasm. Whatever Dzogchen practices he is referring to (if any) are probably different.

 

EDIT: nevermind, I found it on page 248 of Sky Dancer by Keith Dowman:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ACPL_mjx-xUC&pg=PA248&lpg=PA248&dq=keith+dowman+orgasm&source=bl&ots=BPVEj3xClK&sig=UCOA5D5lNMIKUen7a2TcmqohMOE&hl=en&ei=E4GdTqu9KuXV0QH9x8i3CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

They are different outlooks for different practices. And Sam Weor has nothing to do with either.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Padma Norbu

[Padma Norbu]

Well, anyway... I would like whatever you people are PMing each other.

[Shen Chi Jing]

[Padma Norbu]

At one point, I had 70 or so Samael Weor pdfs. You know what I've never seen in any Vajrayana texts? Discussion about Samael Weor. Or Satan. Or 666. Or Samael, the archangel. Or Abraxas. Or anything remotely Christian.

 

You can continue to try to cross-reference all the religions out there, following the "golden thread," as Joseph Campbell called it (or Golden Bough, as Sir James George Frazer called it) but I'd like to suggest to you that it is a counter-productive waste of time if you are trying to read from one tradition and then read from another tradition to find an explanation that you might understand better.

 

Of course, I don't expect you to believe me. Most followers of the "golden thread" refuse to accept this notion until they figure it out for themselves. But, if you just think about it logically, it doesn't make much sense: are you an expert in either Weor Gnosticism or Tantra or Dzogchen? If not, then why try to compare them? If you feel you are expert in one, then why would that qualify you to examine another tradition from that perspective? This is really common among people involved in Western Mystery Traditions, but how in the hell would anyone know if the "enlightenment" of one tradition is even remotely like the "enlightenment" of another?

 

I am not criticizing you because that would be hypocritical of me, since I spent a long time doing the same thing.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Padma Norbu

[Shen Chi Jing]

At one point, I had 70 or so Samael Weor pdfs.

 

FYI most of those PDF's of Samael Aun Weor's writings contain tons of mistakes. They are often bad translations, are missing entire paragraphs, add things that aren't in the original, etc.

 

 

You know what I've never seen in any Vajrayana texts? Discussion about Samael Weor. Or Satan. Or 666. Or Samael, the archangel. Or Abraxas. Or anything remotely Christian.

 

Christ is not only limited to the Christian tradition. When studying the attributes of Christ, it is quite clear that Christ is, in Its totality, Bodhicitta in all four of Its aspects: Outer, Inner, Secret, and Ultimate or Innermost-Secret.

 

As for Lucifer, Samael, Abraxas, Satan, the Demiurge, Yaldabaoth, Baphomet, etc.; let's just say for now that studying Kabbalah along with Buddhism, would unveil many interesting things regarding this. I'm not about to tackle that one in this thread right now though.

 

 

You can continue to try to cross-reference all the religions out there, following the "golden thread," as Joseph Campbell called it (or Golden Bough, as Sir James George Frazer called it) but I'd like to suggest to you that it is a counter-productive waste of time if you are trying to read from one tradition and then read from another tradition to find an explanation that you might understand better.

 

Of course, I don't expect you to believe me. Most followers of the "golden thread" refuse to accept this notion until they figure it out for themselves.

 

It's all a matter of how you are able to and/or want to utilize your time. For some, studying all of the traditions is more inspirational and is therefore of practical use; and for others studying anything aside from one particular tradition is more or less a distraction.

 

Interestingly, the Gnostics (such as Samael Aun Weor), the Platonists/Neo-Platonists, and the Sufis (such as the Ismailis and the Naqshbandi Order) have all used the expression the "Golden Chain" or the "Golden Thread" for centuries, if not much longer. There's more of a connection between the Western (and/or "Middle Eastern") and the Eastern traditions than most would even begin to imagine.

 

Masonic authors like H.P. Blavatsky, Manly P. Hall, Godfrey Higgins, Kenneth R.H. Mackenzie, Gerald Massey, Albert Pike, John Yarker, etc. have provided an overwhelming mass of evidence for the existence of the Gnosis that is at the heart of all authentic traditions.

 

Even Vajranatha (John Myrdhin Reynolds) who has worked closely with Lopon Tenzin Namdak, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, and other Masters; has contributed to this field, particularly in the context of Buddhism.

 

 

But, if you just think about it logically, it doesn't make much sense: are you an expert in either Weor Gnosticism or Tantra or Dzogchen? If not, then why try to compare them? If you feel you are expert in one, then why would that qualify you to examine another tradition from that perspective?

 

Well it's not about becoming an "expert". It's about coming to the realization that some traditions have lost much of the meaning of their original teachings; and that without teachers like Samael Aun Weor, many of the teachings of some traditions would remain obscure. I don't know how many times I've seen people who are full of pride about their so called mastery of the teachings of their tradition, yet they don't even recognize some of the basic prerequisites that are found in their religion (contemporary exoteric Christianity being the most common example of this). Anyhow, no; I'm no expert in anything. Nevertheless, much of what I write on forums and such, is at least worthy of examine; even if the "experts" don't think so.

 

 

This is really common among people involved in Western Mystery Traditions, but how in the hell would anyone know if the "enlightenment" of one tradition is even remotely like the "enlightenment" of another?

 

By practicing, applying the Scientific Method, and by Meditating.

 

 

I am not criticizing you because that would be hypocritical of me, since I spent a long time doing the same thing.

 

If it didn't prove to be a fruitful endeavor for you, doesn't mean that it won't be for others. And like I'd said, there are, as far as I can tell thus far, differences between the Dzogchen approach and the approach of the Gnostic Teachings. And I don't intend to mix up the two teachings where there are (apparent) contradictions. On the other hand, the said two teachings clarify many things in regard to one another; so long as we're careful to not make connections where (apparently) none exist.

 

And like I'd also said, the Gnostic Teachings seem to be more akin to Tantrayana (the Path of Transformation) than they are to Dzogpa-Chenpo (the Path of Self-Liberation). In fact, at this point I'm more interested in the Gnostic Teachings than I am Buddhist Tantra proper (although maybe this will change after I study the Guhyagarbha Tantra and a commentary or two); yet I am overall more interested in Dzogchen than I am the Gnostic Teachings.

 

The fundamentals of Gnosis are very important in any case:

 

Chastity/Sexual Magic, Meditation, Bodhicitta, the blessing of the Elementals of plants when working with plants, and the Communion/Eucharist (known as Ganapuja or Ganachakra Puja and Pancatattva in Tantra).

 

Again, maybe the Gnostics teach pure Dzogchen in their 2nd or 3rd Chamber, I don't know. Also, I've seen statements written by Samael Aun Weor that could indicate the Dzogchen View, however I'm not currently qualified to make a definitive statement about those said statements.

 

 

Best Regards

Edited October 21, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[C T]

I like the works of William Quan Judge ~ I find his wisdom to be fascinating and precise, for example:

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/death/de-wqj2.htm

Edited October 22, 2011 by C T

[Padma Norbu]

FYI most of those PDF's of Samael Aun Weor's writings contain tons of mistakes. They are often bad translations, are missing entire paragraphs, add things that aren't in the original, etc.

 

I really couldn't care less.

 

As for the rest of your post...

 

Been there, done that. No need to try to educate me about Kabballah. I have a few drawers full of B.O.T.A. lessons and a closet full of books I'm slowly selling on E-bay. 37 now and studied it since I was about 17. And not just from books (obviously, you can't get B.O.T.A. lessons unless you join B.O.T.A.).

 

William Q. Judge = waste of time, too, imo. Never met anyone who accomplished anything with New Thought movement material. Psycho-Cybernetics is a much more useful self-help book than just about anything from that movement, btw, so you should snatch up a used copy for about $2 on Amazon.

[C T]

I really couldn't care less.

 

As for the rest of your post...

 

Been there, done that. No need to try to educate me about Kabballah. I have a few drawers full of B.O.T.A. lessons and a closet full of books I'm slowly selling on E-bay. 37 now and studied it since I was about 17. And not just from books (obviously, you can't get B.O.T.A. lessons unless you join B.O.T.A.).

 

William Q. Judge = waste of time, too, imo. Never met anyone who accomplished anything with New Thought movement material. Psycho-Cybernetics is a much more useful self-help book than just about anything from that movement, btw, so you should snatch up a used copy for about $2 on Amazon.

 

37? So you're a different Padma Norbu then.

 

Wonder why you chose a handle that could, in all likelihood, make others mistake you for someone else.

 

This Padma Norbu, for example: http://padmasambhavapureland.com/us/norbu.php

[Shen Chi Jing]

I've not read much of Paul Foster Case's (founder of B.O.T.A.) writings, but from what I understand they're pretty good. Although when it comes to Kabbalah, Masonry, Rosicrucianism and such, I prefer more the writings of Eliphas Levi, H.P. Blavatsky, Dion Fortune, Manly P. Hall, and Samael Aun Weor.

 

Haven't read much of William Quan Judge's (Bryan Kinnavan) work either, but it seems pretty good too. I didn't know he was an author on "New Thought" (much less a "self-help" writer). I thought rather that William Quan Judge was more of a classical Theosophist (one of the Theosophical Society's very first members in fact?).

 

I'm going to have to say probably not on William Quan Judge being a New Thought and/or 'self-help' writer.

 

Theosophy may have influenced "New Thought" and "Christian Science", but I don't see how the latter two could be directly linked to any real Theosophists such as H.P. Blavatsky, H.S. Olcott, Rudolf Steiner, Franz Hartmann, or William Quan Judge.

 

I was into some 'self-help' books, 'success' books, NLP books, etc. for a brief period. Not anymore though:

 

 

"Though the demonism of the Middle Ages seems to have disappeared, there is abundant evidence that in many forms of modern thought--especially the so-called "prosperity" psychology, "willpower-building" metaphysics, and systems of "high-pressure" salesmanship--black magic has merely passed through a metamorphosis, and although its name be changed its nature remains the same."

 

"The practice of magic--either white or black--depends upon the ability of the adept to control the universal life force--that which Eliphas Levi calls the great magical agent or the astral light..."

Edited October 28, 2011 by Shen Chi Jing

[Padma Norbu]

37? So you're a different Padma Norbu then.

 

Wonder why you chose a handle that could, in all likelihood, make others mistake you for someone else.

 

This Padma Norbu, for example: http://padmasambhavapureland.com/us/norbu.php

 

Because that's the name Lama Tsering Everest gave me when I took refuge with her.