Online Tibetan practice program

[Sunya]

I have a high level of respect for the great spiritual traditions and lineages of the world. Especially, I respect the most, traditions that know how to develop the subtle energy of the body and universe, and understand the true nature of the mind. I want to know everything I can, and get all the best systems. I want to develop spiritually, and develop a high spiritual level in every great art and path I can get a hold of. I want a diverse skill set. I want a diverse understanding of spiritual cultivation methods and development. I want to know the similarities and differences, I want to know the underlying truths. I want the mysteries, I want the secrets, I want to understand the highest levels of the highest paths.

 

That's really good that you have a lot of motivation for truth. Very good indeed. Think about this for a second and perhaps contemplate your real motivation: You will not attain anything. You will not become enlightened. Nobody becomes enlightened. The ego has to die, and you are the ego. You're an illusion and these 'highest levels of the highest paths' that you seek so much will kill you because they reveal truth, and you are not real. You're seeking your own funeral. Are you still so motivated for truth?

 

I believe we are in the age where the veil should be lifted and mankind should gain the best methods of developing their mind, and especially their body and energy. These types of systems should be the future culture of mankind, for the current and coming age.

 

Indeed.

What I mean by how far can it take you, is will it basically get you the high level meditation level of Tibetan Buddhism, and can you eventually get to the things in the videos like trulkor, tummo, changing hand mudras, etc.?

 

As I said in my previous post, those are completion practices. Completion practices will be taught in this program. Tummo is just one completion practice. It isn't the only one, nor the best. All tantric practices aim at working with the channels in the body to develop the central channel. When I said this program will give you all you need for enlightenment, I wasn't kidding. Enlightenment is it, you know? If there was something beyond enlightenment, then enlightenment wouldn't be enlightenment. Of course there are different 'stages' of enlightenment, but Vajrayana takes you all the way.

 

You will learn the highest practices. Don't worry, lol. The better question is, are you ready for them?

 

That is always dilemma when someone recomends you only do their practice for a period of time. You must have a lot of faith in them if you will forego all the other great paths and systems potentially out there.

 

You sound like you're still in the exploration phase. That's fine, and perhaps you're not ready to commit to a path yet. This program might not be for you then.

 

However, it can be worth it.....but that is a major choice you will have to make and consider carefully.

 

I already made that choice because this is my path. I used to screw around and I got no where. You need to commit to one path, one system to make progress. I'm not the only one that will tell you this. After you're done exploring, you'll realize you need to commit and you'll then search for the right path. Yours might not be Vajrayana. It's not for everyone.

 

It can be difficult finding ways to practice mulitple systems, fitting them all in a way that doesn't interfere with each other. But it can be done I am sure.

 

Maybe, but why? Learn from those who came before you and follow their footsteps. Systems are systems for a reason. They work. Running around like a headless chicken from system to system is a sign of ego not wisdom. Human life is too short and precious to waste time with ego games, wanting to have it all and experience it all. On a deeper level, this might be a fear of making progress so you stay on the sidelines afraid to commit. Maybe that's not you though.

[bodyoflight]

True dzogchen teachings include 1) the art of solar meditation 2) the art of transforming your body into light aka rainbow body.

 

Does your program cover solar meditation or the rainbow body meditation?

Edited February 1, 2011 by bodyoflight

[Sunya]

True dzogchen teachings include 1) the art of solar meditation 2) the art of transforming your body into light aka rainbow body.

 

Does your program cover solar meditation or the rainbow body meditation?

 

Solar meditation? Never heard that, perhaps you're talking about sky gazing. Anyway, the practice of Thogal which transforms the body into body of light is generally kept secret because rarely ever does anyone get to the level where it's even relevant. You need to master Trekcho first, which is the last practice taught in the program. Trekcho is when you practice resting in Rigpa. Most people are lucky to even get a taste of Rigpa once during their entire life, so obviously mastering the practice is difficult, but once you are resting 24/7 in Rigpa you go see a teacher personally, and they will teach you Thogal. That's generally how it works. I wouldn't worry about Thogal. Trekcho is hard enough, believe me.

[bodyoflight]

Solar meditation? Never heard that, perhaps you're talking about sky gazing. Anyway, the practice of Thogal which transforms the body into body of light is generally kept secret because rarely ever does anyone get to the level where it's even relevant. You need to master Trekcho first, which is the last practice taught in the program. Trekcho is when you practice resting in Rigpa. Most people are lucky to even get a taste of Rigpa once during their entire life, so obviously mastering the practice is difficult, but once you are resting 24/7 in Rigpa you go see a teacher personally, and they will teach you Thogal. That's generally how it works. I wouldn't worry about Thogal. Trekcho is hard enough, believe me.

 

Thank you for your honest reply, sunya.

 

Thogal is what every forumer here is subconsciously and unconsciously looking for.

 

Thogal is also known as the immortal body of light as taught by Mantak Chia, it is called the light body as taught by the taoists, the diamond body as taught by the dzogchen.

 

Thogal is also known as solar meditation.

 

It is the highest form of evolution of man and countless practioners of various tradtions all over the world has achieved it.

 

And Thogal is not that hard. I already know the rudiments of it. However, I am still searching for more information on that topic.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/9356-yeshe-lama-thogal-teachings/

 

The Egyptian Pharaohs practiced it, the Hindu Masters practiced it, the Mayans Practiced it, the Sufis and other ME spiritual groups practiced it, the Shinto Priests and Taoists masters practiced it so yes, this practice is known to spiritual groups all over the world.

 

The Tibetan Buddhist monks are sometimes too arrogant, I think, in assuming that this practice is too difficult or too precious to be transmitted to the average Joe on the street.

Edited February 1, 2011 by bodyoflight

[Sunya]

The Egyptian Pharaohs practiced it, the Hindu Masters practiced it, the Mayans Practiced it, the Sufis and other ME spiritual groups practiced it, the Shinto Priests and Taoists masters practiced it so yes, this practice is known to spiritual groups all over the world.

 

I'm not sure where you got such ideas from. I'm not aware of any solid academic research on the topic, nor do I think there's any evidence of such people practicing it. You can believe whatever you'd like to believe though.

 

Just because other traditions use the same words doesn't mean that they're talking about the same thing. The rainbow body is attained at the time of death where the body disappears and only the hair and nails are left, and as far as I know only Tibetans talk about this phenomenon.

 

Tibetans talk about many different types of bodies. You can see some talked about here http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/introduction/extra_bodily_states.html

 

The Tibetan Buddhist monks are sometimes too arrogant, I think, in assuming that this practice is too difficult or too precious to be transmitted to the average Joe on the street.

 

lol ok. Go buy Heartdrops of Dharmakaya and practice thogal then. The full instructions are there. You'll find that nothing happens since you haven't mastered trekcho. It's a common misunderstanding to mistake skillful means for arrogance. Would you give a laptop to a 2 year old? They wouldn't know what to do with it

 

I used to be pretty obsessed with the highest and most esoteric practices too. Then I realized it's all ego. As I told someone else in this forum, you have to realize that you will die through these practices. Nobody becomes enlightened. Nobody becomes immortal or attains rainbow body. You die because you're not real, you're a self-grasping thought-pattern. 'Body' is a figure of speech. It's not a body. It's a continuum of compassionate energy. There's no 'you' in there.

[bodyoflight]

I'm not sure where you got such ideas from. I'm not aware of any solid academic research on the topic, nor do I think there's any evidence of such people practicing it. You can believe whatever you'd like to believe though.

 

Just because other traditions use the same words doesn't mean that they're talking about the same thing. The rainbow body is attained at the time of death where the body disappears and only the hair and nails are left, and as far as I know only Tibetans talk about this phenomenon.

 

Tibetans talk about many different types of bodies. You can see some talked about here http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/introduction/extra_bodily_states.html

 

 

 

lol ok. Go buy Heartdrops of Dharmakaya and practice thogal then. The full instructions are there. You'll find that nothing happens since you haven't mastered trekcho. It's a common misunderstanding to mistake skillful means for arrogance. Would you give a laptop to a 2 year old? They wouldn't know what to do with it

 

I used to be pretty obsessed with the highest and most esoteric practices too. Then I realized it's all ego. As I told someone else in this forum, you have to realize that you will die through these practices. Nobody becomes enlightened. Nobody becomes immortal or attains rainbow body. You die because you're not real, you're a self-grasping thought-pattern. 'Body' is a figure of speech. It's not a body. It's a continuum of compassionate energy. There's no 'you' in there.

 

The rainbow body is an universal phenomenon which does not belong to the tibetan buddhists.

 

I have just watched the movies dhamma brothers last night. There were some inmates who rejected meditation cos they think meditation belong to buddhism and not christianity.

 

However meditiation is a skill, a universal thing just like how the rainbow body is an univeral thing. Just cos some groups attach some names to a thing does not mean that thing belong to a certain order only.

 

Namaste

[Sunya]

The rainbow body is an universal phenomenon which does not belong to the tibetan buddhists.

 

I have just watched the movies dhamma brothers last night. There were some inmates who rejected meditation cos they think meditation belong to buddhism and not christianity.

 

However meditiation is a skill, a universal thing just like how the rainbow body is an univeral thing. Just cos some groups attach some names to a thing does not mean that thing belong to a certain order only.

 

Namaste

 

You didn't address any of my points and instead just backpedaled and restated your beliefs. That's fine, but I asked for evidence. Where is it? I am curious. I never said it was impossible for non-Vajrayana practitioners to attain Rainbow Body. I just said I've never heard of it. All religions talk about an immortal soul or something similar, but this is not the Vajrakaya.

 

Anyway, for 99% of us it's a waste of time to talk about these things. Sure, it's interesting and fun and intriguing, but you won't make progress. Dzogchen isn't the best path. We have different conditions and capacities, and the best path is relative to each of us. What is best for someone else isn't best for you, so just because someone says Dzogchen is the highest and best and Rainbow Body is best is completely meaningless unless you have the capacity to practice Dzogchen.

[bodyoflight]

You didn't address any of my points and instead just backpedaled and restated your beliefs. That's fine, but I asked for evidence. Where is it? I am curious. I never said it was impossible for non-Vajrayana practitioners to attain Rainbow Body. I just said I've never heard of it. All religions talk about an immortal soul or something similar, but this is not the Vajrakaya.

 

Anyway, for 99% of us it's a waste of time to talk about these things. Sure, it's interesting and fun and intriguing, but you won't make progress. Dzogchen isn't the best path. We have different conditions and capacities, and the best path is relative to each of us. What is best for someone else isn't best for you, so just because someone says Dzogchen is the highest and best and Rainbow Body is best is completely meaningless unless you have the capacity to practice Dzogchen.

 

There are many paths to attain the rainbow body.. taoism is one, sufism is another.. the Jamilian University of the Ordained teaches it.. the Egyptian pharaohs did it.. the mayans did it and the south american mystics are still doing it.. please do not be that arrogant enough to assume that dzogchen is like the highest path in the world..

 

Dzogchen is one of the highest paths yes, but there is no such thing as the highest path in the world..

 

I quote from Zeitegist ...

 

"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

Edited February 2, 2011 by bodyoflight

[markern]

My friend, I am shocked that you would state such egoistic words.. are you sure you are a Buddhist practitioner?

 

There are many paths to attain the rainbow body.. taoism is one, sufism is another.. the Jamilian University of the Ordained teaches it.. the Egyptian pharaohs did it.. the mayans did it and the south american mystics are still doing it.. please do not be that arrogant enough to assume that dzogchen is like the highest path in the world..

 

Dzogchen is one of the highest paths yes, but there is no such thing as the highest path in the world..

 

I quote from Zeitegist ...

 

"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

What is the Jamilian university of the ordained? Where is it from?

[markern]

I'm not sure where you got such ideas from. I'm not aware of any solid academic research on the topic, nor do I think there's any evidence of such people practicing it. You can believe whatever you'd like to believe though.

 

Just because other traditions use the same words doesn't mean that they're talking about the same thing. The rainbow body is attained at the time of death where the body disappears and only the hair and nails are left, and as far as I know only Tibetans talk about this phenomenon.

 

Tibetans talk about many different types of bodies. You can see some talked about here http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/introduction/extra_bodily_states.html

 

 

 

lol ok. Go buy Heartdrops of Dharmakaya and practice thogal then. The full instructions are there. You'll find that nothing happens since you haven't mastered trekcho. It's a common misunderstanding to mistake skillful means for arrogance. Would you give a laptop to a 2 year old? They wouldn't know what to do with it

 

I used to be pretty obsessed with the highest and most esoteric practices too. Then I realized it's all ego. As I told someone else in this forum, you have to realize that you will die through these practices. Nobody becomes enlightened. Nobody becomes immortal or attains rainbow body. You die because you're not real, you're a self-grasping thought-pattern. 'Body' is a figure of speech. It's not a body. It's a continuum of compassionate energy. There's no 'you' in there.

 

Mantak Chia talked about only the nails and hair being left I think and also about ascending to heaven in broad daylight.

[bodyoflight]

What is the Jamilian university of the ordained? Where is it from?

 

http://www.jamilian.org/

 

 

Nevada

[Sunya]

Anyway, it really is best to work on foundational practices than worrying about transforming your physical body. Mind training is very important as well as meditative stability. This is what the first 2 cycles of the practice program focus on. I think such a gradual system is very appropriate for many people and can really bring about much faster and lasting progress than worrying about the esoteric practices without a stable platform

Edited February 1, 2011 by Sunya

[rex]

Four months teaching with daily videos/audios of teaching, practice and forum access is well worth £115 (converting from $ to £ ) which works out at about £29 a month. This is how I put it into perspective: my sangha is holding a series of monthly weekend teachings covering much of the same material. I live about 75 miles from the sessions so attending every event would mean shelling out each month £55 for travel; £25 for the weekend teaching (if poverty is pleaded, but I can't in all good conscience - though I'm not that rich either); £45 for an overnight stay (assuming no one can put me up) and that's excluding food. It suits distance learners and I've enrolled. Thanks again Sunya!

 

 

Eitded for tpoys and duration/price errors

Edited February 1, 2011 by rex

[Sunya]

[Vajrahridaya]

 

There are many paths to attain the rainbow body.. taoism is one, sufism is another.. the Jamilian University of the Ordained teaches it.. the Egyptian pharaohs did it.. the mayans did it and the south american mystics are still doing it.. please do not be that arrogant enough to assume that dzogchen is like the highest path in the world..

 

Dzogchen is one of the highest paths yes, but there is no such thing as the highest path in the world..

 

 

The view and intention is different in these different paths concerning the body of light, so even though the appearance of disappearance is the same, the result is different as the paths have a different goal in mind concerning the body of light.

 

In Dzogchen the intention is to maintain connection with all sentient beings in order to help them better and for a longer period of time as it takes a high level being to connect to a Sambhogakaya in order to receive teachings, but it's easier to connect to a Buddha who has attained the body of light as they remain closer to our level. So, the intention of a being for attaining the body of light is that of compassion.

 

Because the intention is exclusively revolving around compassion and done for the sake of all sentient beings instead of a desire to go to heaven or merge with a god of some type, the jalus or body of light attainment in Dzogchen is different from the appearance of it in another tradition that doesn't have the same basis for the result.

[bodyoflight]

I don't necessarily agree that every syllable of the program is time and energy efficient but trekcho does seem rather useful with helping us progress on hindsight.

Edited February 2, 2011 by bodyoflight

[bodyoflight]

sunya, are there any tibetan ritual tools needed in the program?

 

I am talking about the dorje, the bell and possible the vajra as well.. thanks..

[markern]

http://www.jamilian.org/

 

 

Nevada

 

Thanks!

[Pero]

"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

People say that a lot but usually it's one of the most laughable things one can say. Without a teacher you wouldn't even be able to wipe your own ass let alone converse with others on an internet forum.

[bodyoflight]

People say that a lot but usually it's one of the most laughable things one can say. Without a teacher you wouldn't even be able to wipe your own ass let alone converse with others on an internet forum.

 

You completely misunderstand that quote.

 

What Jiddu really meant is that it is necessary to question leaders. He never said anything about rejecting them outright.

Edited February 2, 2011 by bodyoflight

[Sunya]

sunya, are there any tibetan ritual tools needed in the program?

 

I am talking about the dorje, the bell and possible the vajra as well.. thanks..

 

I have no clue. I'm not really into ritual, so I don't even have those.

[RyanO]

Almost a year later...anyone end up doing this? If so what do you think?

[rex]

Almost a year later...anyone end up doing this? If so what do you think?

I did this and found it well worth it. There were videos of contemplation interspersed with meditation and chanting and supplications at the start of each session. Couldn't download the videos though the mp3 versions of the contemplations were available for download. Lots of supporting material like PDF summaries of the different topics, chant book with mp3s of the chants and videos of practice seminars.

 

The material given was for two daily sessions of around 30 mins each. Often, but not always, the evening session was identical to the morning session.

 

The whole course radiated love and I genuinely felt touched when doing the contemplations.

[RyanO]

[C T]

 

The common advisement is to focus on one path and I get that. But what am I do to when I think that the Taoists have the best approach to energy, the Hindus have the best approach to devotion, and the Buddhists have the best approach to wisdom? Lol.

 

Any insights from you or anyone else would be welcome!

 

Thanks.

When the mind is tamed and established in clarity (or wisdom) then whatever secondary practices one might choose to partake in will not clash because in that clarity of mind the natural outcome will be harmonious integration of whatever one undertakes to perform.

 

The Dzogchen master Namkhai Norbu states that when one is established in mindfulness, then one can and should use whatever means within reach to gain further progress on the spiritual path. I dont think any worthy Buddhist master in today's world will ignore the fact that there are so many 'containers' of differing purposes available to people - while the shapes may vary, serving different needs, as long as one keeps sight of the essential purpose of what containers are for, there is minimal risk of bewilderment since at the very basic level one's clarity has already been secured. With this as the basis, no matter what genuine auxiliary supports are accessed these will be very naturally integrated by the practitioner which is then utilized for the highest good of others and self.

 

If someone tells you that Buddhism demands that other beneficial practices should be forsaken then that someone is truly mistaken. However, when it comes to establishing the basis of a clear mind, which is indeed a very vital and practical endeavor, i'd recommend Buddhism without a moment's hesitation.

Edited January 3, 2012 by C T