Taoism Vs Buddhism

[majc]

Can you please stop complaining about someone who has a good mind for facts, as if I didn't spend years meditating in an Ashram, experiencing directly the refined states of consciousness mentioned in various scriptures and seeing my past lives directly, as well as going to various realms of the gods talked about in Buddhism and Hinduism, directly, many times before I even read anything about them.

It's an observation, not a complaint. And you do use a lot of words...

 

 

I just get tired to being accused of merely being an encyclopedia of regurgitation. It's a pretty sad reflection of insecurity.

Really? I don't get tired of being accused of anything. Only doubtful truths need defense.

 

 

I mentioned ineffable as well as transcendent. Yes, the same way Hindu's describe Brahman. I am directly familiar with the meditative experiences concerning this.

Congratulations.

 

 

Sounds like a collective unconscious, or the concept of the Store House Consciousness (Alayavijnana) in Buddhism.

It really doesn't. (Again, see TTC line #1)

 

 

That would be a manifestation of Dharmakaya, the individual storehouse consciousness liberated directly and thus becomes the womb or Tathagatagarbha of Buddha manifestations from the formless enlightened potential of the collection of endless Buddhas since beginningless time. Dharmakaya is likened to a Buddha mind matrix of constant creative expression with the sole purpose of liberating endless sentient beings.

Or, more simply, Dharmablablaetc. is the traditional image which arose just now (in all its cleverly refined, complex symbolic glory) inside your monkey head.

 

You seem primarily interested here in making sure that other people are aware of your Buddha-like comprehension of all this exotic stuff. What's up with that?

[majc]

I do that all the time. Sometimes intentionally.

 

I'm still trying to figure out where you are but as long as you keep posting I'll get it eventually. Interesting posts from you so far.

I'm still trying to figure that out too.

[Vajrahridaya]

It's an observation, not a complaint. And you do use a lot of words...

 

 

 

Really? I don't get tired of being accused of anything. Only doubtful truths need defense.

 

 

 

Congratulations.

 

 

 

It really doesn't. (Again, see TTC line #1)

 

 

 

Or, more simply, Dharmablablaetc. is the traditional image which arose just now (in all its cleverly refined, complex symbolic glory) inside your monkey head.

 

Oh blah, blah, blah... are you the monkey king of reifying defensive theories against us monkey minds?

 

You seem primarily interested here in making sure that other people are aware of your Buddha-like comprehension of all this exotic stuff. What's up with that?

 

What's up with your ultimating the idea of that?

 

Eh... whatever... go on with yourself well in hand... may good intentions bless your path to true and everlasting.. beyond cycles... freedom!

 

I've got nothing to prove... Was just having fun for a stint! Be well!

[Vajrahridaya]

It really doesn't. (Again, see TTC line #1)

Those that use this line as a defense for their own ignorance loose themselves in it's inevitable resolution through themselves.

 

p.s. I.E. proving the fact of dependent origination.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Apech]

Those that use this line as a defense for their own ignorance loose themselves in it's inevitable resolution through themselves.

 

p.s. I.E. proving the fact of dependent origination.

 

Eh?

[C T]

Isn't that exactly what you did right off the bat? Making unsupported assertions and assumptions about the person and not debating the topic at hand? Now you turn tail and run without actually engaging with a mature rebuttal of views.

 

Precisely.

[majc]

Eh?

I second this.

[Vajrahridaya]

I second this.

 

Basically, if the source of yourself that you defend is unknowable by you, then your ignorance of my rebuttal arises dependent there of.

 

Only those quite reflective of the Buddhas teaching of D.O. will know what I mean.. but I'm hoping others do as well?? Or will eventually by re-reading that which confuses them?

[majc]

Basically, if the source of yourself that you defend is unknowable by you, then your ignorance of my rebuttal arises dependent there of.

 

Only those quite reflective of the Buddhas teaching of D.O. will know what I mean.. but I'm hoping others do as well?? Or will eventually by re-reading that which confuses them?

Good, because for a minute there I thought you were going to go for yet another vague and indecipherable response about the hyper-enigmatic special inner workings of your Buddhist supra mega cosmos which only wizards, fairies and the initiated can comprehend.

 

Thank Tao you didn't!

[C T]

Good, because for a minute there I thought you were going to go for yet another vague and indecipherable response about the hyper-enigmatic special inner workings of your Buddhist supra mega cosmos which only wizards, fairies and the initiated can comprehend.

 

Thank Tao you didn't!

Would be nice if you had something decent to contribute, instead of mindlessly resorting to ridicule and sarcasm. If there is nothing worthwhile to share, or to counter argue, why not practice a bit of restraint and just keep quiet? Silence can be quite helpful at times. I am not saying you are making too much noise, but its really quite draining to see so-called Taoists reducing themselves to sarcastic fools and idiots by taking cheap shots at a tradition they do not have a respectful understanding of. Its fine if you do not want to understand, but at least try to follow the words of advice of your sages and apply a bit of their wisdom in your relationship with others, even if these others are merely strangers to you.

[Vajrahridaya]

Good, because for a minute there I thought you were going to go for yet another vague and indecipherable response about the hyper-enigmatic special inner workings of your Buddhist supra mega cosmos which only wizards, fairies and the initiated can comprehend.

 

Thank Tao you didn't!

 

 

Consider me an initiated Fairy in your tail telling its' bones about it's skull!

 

No... really... I'm not trying...it's kinda fun though!! 4rum bottom to top?

 

I've never actually tried to be vague here. I've always tried to be clear through the use of more words??

[Marblehead]

I'm still trying to figure that out too.

 

Hehehe. Well, keep working on it. (Actually, it doesn't really matter. For sure you are exactly where you are supposed to be at this very moment in time. It cannot be otherwise.)

[majc]

Would be nice if you had something decent to contribute, instead of mindlessly resorting to ridicule and sarcasm.

Hey that's not fair. I was mindful.

 

 

If there is nothing worthwhile to share, or to counter argue, why not practice a bit of restraint and just keep quiet? Silence can be quite helpful at times. I am not saying you are making too much noise, but its really quite draining to see so-called Taoists reducing themselves to sarcastic fools and idiots by taking cheap shots at a tradition they do not have a respectful understanding of. Its fine if you do not want to understand, but at least try to follow the words of advice of your sages and apply a bit of their wisdom in your relationship with others, even if these others are merely strangers to you.

Yes, sir. Duly noted on your authority: humour is not a valid path.

 

Ha - I'll leave you to it then. Enjoy!

[majc]

I've never actually tried to be vague here. I've always tried to be clear through the use of more words??

Yeah my fault, I meant obscure not vague.

[Vajrahridaya]

Yeah my fault, I meant obscure not vague.

 

:lol: Um! Or should I say "Om"? Ah um... yub yum internally??

[majc]

:lol: Um! Or should I say "Om"? Ah um... yub yum internally??

*nod* that's much clearer.

 

I was only joking, I meant no offense to anyone. Sorry about that.

I don't know anything about any traditions. But Lao Tzu did put in ch.32:

 

Every exact (or defined) path is to the Tao

as tiny streams are to the sea.

 

Buddhism seems like a defined path. And so does 'Taoism'. S'all I'm sayin'.

[Marblehead]

Yeah. As was once said to me: "Our paths may well be different but whenever they do merge we can walk together and share each other's company for a while."

 

That always sounded good to me.

[Apech]

Basically, if the source of yourself that you defend is unknowable by you, then your ignorance of my rebuttal arises dependent there of.

 

Only those quite reflective of the Buddhas teaching of D.O. will know what I mean.. but I'm hoping others do as well?? Or will eventually by re-reading that which confuses them?

 

Well thanks for the explanation ... I think.

[ralis]

What I have observed with the continuing arguments in regards to the superiority of Buddhism is a group dynamic i.e, hive mind, among the true believers. Buddhist catch phrases are used as a means to establish so called facts. The bases of these so called factual arguments are not grounded in criteria that just anyone can prove and have a realization or even understanding of the argument presented. It is the elitist, with the unfounded belief of "I have an abundance of good karma, you don't and therefor I am the privileged one".

 

These arguments could be realized as a collective hallucination. If one claims visions of god realms, transcendent levels and planes of existence, exactly, what does that prove? Further, if the hive mind is sufficiently receptive to these so called visions from the central authoritarian master, would it not seem to facilitate an easier transition to the experience of hallucinating so called transcendent phenomena? The experience if which is entirely subjective!

Edited November 9, 2010 by ralis

[ralis]

Would be nice if you had something decent to contribute, instead of mindlessly resorting to ridicule and sarcasm. If there is nothing worthwhile to share, or to counter argue, why not practice a bit of restraint and just keep quiet? Silence can be quite helpful at times. I am not saying you are making too much noise, but its really quite draining to see so-called Taoists reducing themselves to sarcastic fools and idiots by taking cheap shots at a tradition they do not have a respectful understanding of. Its fine if you do not want to understand, but at least try to follow the words of advice of your sages and apply a bit of their wisdom in your relationship with others, even if these others are merely strangers to you.

 

Respect of a tradition is not a requirement to post a critique of! Further, a critique does not necessarily make one a cheap shot artist!

[LBDaoist]

In my own experiences, the simplistic understanding that I came to is that Taoism and Buddhism are two views of the same thing. Buddhism seems to be primarily focused on the mind and thought. Taoism seems to be focused on the body and the spirit. They are both tools to guide a seeker to the path. I original read a lot of Taoist texts. When I read the Buddhist texts, they helped me make sense of the Taoist texts. I would imagine the reverse would be also be true.

 

Although you didn't ask, Confuscian texts seem like the third part of the family. Where Buddhism deals primarily with the mind, and Taoism deals primarily with the spirit, Confuscianism seems to deal with society and interpersonal relationships.

[Guest allan]

[Vajrahridaya]

 

These arguments could be realized as a collective hallucination. If one claims visions of god realms, transcendent levels and planes of existence, exactly, what does that prove? Further, if the hive mind is sufficiently receptive to these so called visions from the central authoritarian master, would it not seem to facilitate an easier transition to the experience of hallucinating so called transcendent phenomena? The experience if which is entirely subjective!

 

You would talk yourself out of going to a heavenly realm. It's pretty sad actually.

[Vajrahridaya]

Ten years or more should be sufficient for you to rid yourselves of your various attachments and your numerous incorrect thoughts on what is the right cultivation towards enlightenment. The more you post in this and various other threads, the more you have shown your ignorance of what is really high level cultivation for Buddhists and for Daoists.

 

Well... you must be talking to someone else, so no need to respond here.

 

That is why I have stated that if you do not understand what the Buddha have taught, you would not understand what Laozi had written. (No point adding in the Book of Changes which will be way over your head.)

 

Again, you must be talking to some sort of projection from your own mind.

 

A few pointers for you to think over before we meet up again in ten years time in this forum, if both of us are still around then:

 

1) How did the Buddha see the Lands of the Buddhas? By visualization? By ‘lucid dreaming’? Or just by being empty and still?

 

He came to the Buddha realization through insight into dependent origination by transcending the various states of absorptive meditation common in all spiritual traditions. He mastered all the states of Jhana or Samadhi and saw that they all arise dependently, are impermanent and not signs of liberation but merely results of focus. He realized the many different realms that coincide with the different states of Samadhi and when he left the body he left out of the 4th Jhana which is in line with a celestial realm where he could continue teaching from. This is all in the Pali Suttas.

 

2) Can your mind be really empty and your heart still during meditation, when you visualize or ‘lucid dream’?

 

You have an idea of emptiness being something other than form? Emptiness in Buddhism does not have the same meaning as having "no thought" or like an empty jar. Emptiness in Buddhism is referring to dependent origination or interdependence, the fact that things have no inherent selfness. The state of meditation where one sees, and feels nothing is a state of absorption, one of the jhanas or samadhi states and is not a sign of enlightenment, but rather just a nice place for healing and it can even be an obstacle.

 

3) In another thread, a couple of days ago, you mentioned that high level cultivators of a Buddhist sect used sex to get to another level. Did the Buddha ever have to resort to that too? (Think of Ananda’s severe admonishment by the Buddha.)

 

That was Ananda, not every teaching in Buddhism is for everyone. I guess your not familiar with the teachings of Vajrayana or Anuttarayoga Tantra (Highest Yoga Tantra) taught by Buddha from a celestial realm. There are many paths in Buddhism and not everyone will attain enlightenment through being a monk. Even some monks have to stop being monks and are asked to engage in karma mudra (sexual embrace) in order to progress, overcome a mental block or energetic block of some sort. This also happens sometimes in Hindu schools of Tantra as well.

 

4) What did the Book of Changes, Laozi, and the Buddha teach about the Light and the Dark?

I see them as interdependent yet empty of any inherent self. I don't read Laozi anymore and don't much care. When I do the I-Ching I interpret everything through Buddhas teaching.

 

5) What did the Holy Sages, Laozi, and the Buddha teach about Heaven and Earth?

 

I don't much care about what Laozi teaches, to be honest. I know he said that heaven comes from the Tao and that Earth comes from Heaven.

 

The Buddha teaches that all realms are impermanent and that there is no basis behind any of these realms that is eternal and self supporting.

I seldom entertain kids, but do not mind it once in a while since you are sometimes entertaining. Cheerio then!

 

Your attitude is pretty pompous from the start. I guess your British as well as insecure.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

In my own experiences, the simplistic understanding that I came to is that Taoism and Buddhism are two views of the same thing.

 

The Buddha taught that one must have the "right view" and in Buddhas teaching that is very specific.

 

Though it does seem that there are some Taoists that do indeed have this, "right view".