Dokkodo

[Eric23]

So, to speak to it but at the same time claiming ignorance, if what you suggest about him being destined to die then why do I recall it being written that while he was on the cross (pole) dying look to the sky and ask "God, why have you forsaken me?"

 

There may even be some original documents written in Hebrew but I have no knowledge of this.

 

So please, all you Christians out there, ignore me. Okay?

 

Peace & Love!

 

1) I think it was a visceral reaction to moment. How would any of us react say if we found ourselves at the top of an Aztec pyramid having our hearts cut out as a sacrifice?

 

2)The Jews had very strict rules about the copying of the law for many generations. The common opinion is that the Old Testament is quite accurate.

 

3) I really don't know what possessed me to respond to your post. I haven't set foot in a Christian church for years now and left completely disgusted with the entire situation. Even during my years in the church there were definite scriptural issues that I felt a very real cognitive dissonance with (most of them by the apostle Paul). I do need to pick up a copy of the Gnostic gospels, the few snippits I've read on line look interesting. So here I am on TTBs. When I first read what you had written, it seemed like some clarification of the theology was in order, that's all. Why I felt that reaction is something I'll have to ponder. I thank you for your civility in this discussion as well as every other thing I've read by you. Namaste

[lifeforce]

Getting back to the topic, this book is very good. Not all historical fact, but a novel based on actual events.

Read it a few years back and was very impressed. Think I might have to read it again.

970 pages though !

[Apech]

One more comment. It is true that my beliefs may have absolutely nothing to do what reality. But then, they may. We each choose the path we feel we should walk. I have chosen mine. If you are going my way we might walk together for a while. If not then if I see you in the distance I will offer a greeting and a happy and successful journey.

 

May the journey of each and every one of you be happy and successful.

 

If you get lost call out my name and I will try to help.

 

Happy Trails!

 

MH,

 

I always read what you post because its interesting and thought provoking. It's a great place, Taobums, to drop in and listen to what people think. I don't know if we are on the same path or not, or even if it matters. I can see you speak with integrity from your heart and your experience and that is all that counts.

 

Cheers

 

A.

[Marblehead]

Thanks Eric.

 

 

2)The Jews had very strict rules about the copying of the law for many generations. The common opinion is that the Old Testament is quite accurate.

 

 

Yes. This is my understanding as well.

 

... the Gnostic gospels, the few snippits I've read on line look interesting.

 

I have heard this from a number of people. I have never had a calling to do look into it on my own though.

 

Happy journey.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Getting back to the topic, this book is very good. Not all historical fact, but a novel based on actual events.

Read it a few years back and was very impressed. Think I might have to read it again.

970 pages though !

 

I looked. Sounds like a good read if you have the time and interest in such writings.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

MH,

 

I always read what you post because its interesting and thought provoking. It's a great place, Taobums, to drop in and listen to what people think. I don't know if we are on the same path or not, or even if it matters. I can see you speak with integrity from your heart and your experience and that is all that counts.

 

Cheers

 

A.

 

Thanks Apepch. That went deep into my heart.

 

Yes, the Taobums is a great place.

 

We have the opportunity to get into some really deep philosophical discussions but yet we have the freedom to joke around and make light of the whole matter of life.

 

I think it really doesn't matter if we are on the same path or not. As long as we can walk side by side for a while is enough, I think.

 

Reminded me of an Albert Camus quote I will paraphrase:

 

Don't try to lead for I may not follow. Don't try to follow for I may not be going where you wish to go. Just walk beside me and be my friend.

 

Peace & Love!

[Mal]

Getting back to the topic, this book is very good. Not all historical fact, but a novel based on actual events.

Read it a few years back and was very impressed. Think I might have to read it again.

970 pages though !

 

Same here, the size of that tomb stops me going back also (I think got it for 50c at a Library sale, broken binding ) Vagabone is based on Yoshikawa's book, although the manga possible has more pages

 

Found my old kids book too, it was a Time Machine, Sword of the Samurai

[3bob]

 

 

A fine quote below Apepch7... thanks for sharing it earlier

 

"After seeing the Solitary, he could abolish the distinctions of past and present. After abolishing the past and present, he was able to enter there where life and death are no more, where killing does not take away life, nor does giving birth add to it. He was ever in accord with the exigencies of his environment, accepting all and welcoming all, regarding everything as destroyed, and everything as in completion. This is to be 'secure amidst confusion,' reaching security through chaos."

 

"Where did you learn this from?" asked Nanpo Tsekuei. "I learned it from the Son of Ink," replied Nu Yu, "and the Son of Ink learned it from the Grandson of Learning, the Grandson of Learning from Understanding, and Understanding from Insight, Insight learned it from Practice, Practice from Folk Song, and Folk Song from Silence, Silence from the Void, and the Void learned it from the Seeming Beginning."

Om

Edited March 27, 2010 by 3bob

[3bob]

[3bob]

Yep. When I speak I speak only for myself. I do not pretend that I have a multitude of followers but then I can say that my beliefs are based on life as I have observed it as well as knowledge shared with us by people much wiser than I could ever hope to be.

 

And like I said somewhere above, I am not trying to teach anything nor am I trying to sell anything. I am only sharing my observations of life as I have experienced it.

 

If there is life after death I will have to pay dearly but that is my choice and I take full responsibility for my choices.

 

I won't even discuss any reported occurances of life after death unless there is scientific documentation reviewed by at least one peer available for my own reading. If it is one of those stories that people make up it is, IMO, not even worth spending my time reading.

 

The only regret I have regarding this thread is that we spent too much time discussing Jesus when the initial post pertained to someone else.

 

But like I said, I rarely refuse to discuss subjects regarding life philosophies.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

"....The only regret I have regarding this thread is that we spent too much time discussing Jesus when the initial post pertained to someone else.

 

But like I said, I rarely refuse to discuss subjects regarding life philosophies" MH

---------------------------

 

Hello MH,

I to apprecaite your willingness and efforts to engage with me and everyone else here!

 

I think the initial post did pertain to "life philosophies" (or principals) and it did include the line "do not fear death", thus in a way it sounds to me like you are doing another one of your double-takes since we had been talking about overcoming death which was not limited by me (or by you) to Master Jesus. Thus I feel that one of the principal discussion points of the initial post was in play, regardless if the name Jesus came up and which was used by me as just one example of someone who has overcome the fear of death, (and or its effects)

 

I to am not into reading a bunch of "occurances" like you mention, although if I do review such I can cross check them with my core feelings and experiences to see if they ring true to me... but I don't need anyone to try and prove such to me which would more or less be a troublesome exercise, since I already have the proof inside me.

 

Om and good day

Bob

[Marblehead]

Hi Bob,

 

A good day to you as well.

 

Yes, I think a discussion of the concept "overcoming death" is valid in this discussion (thread).

 

I personally think that many misunderstand the meaning set for by those great one who have spoke to this.

 

It is my opinion that they were not talking about overcoming physical death. It should be understood by everyone that we cannot escape physical death.

 

And as I do not hold to the concept of life after death I cannot speak to this.

 

However, "to overcome the fear of death" is a subject worthy of discussion, I think. It is my opinion that this is why the concept of "Heaven" and all related concepts were added to the various religions. To overcome the fear of death because at death we go to one of these glorious places.

 

However, there are other ways to overcome the fear of death without relying on the various religious concepts.

 

If a person is a non-religious naturalists they would understand the impermanence of life. In nature we see that all living things come to life (in whatever means for that species), and if all goes well, they mature, propogate the species, get old and then die.

 

That is one of the processes of nature (Tzujan). We can't escape the natural processes.

 

So the best we can do is try to preserve our life so that we might live to the maximum of our potential. We should not be so cautious at this though because we will likely forget to live and enjoy the process.

 

So, yes, we should never fear death because it is a given. But yet we should not be so reckless so that we hasten the process.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

 

 

 

 

So the best we can do is try to preserve our life so that we might live to the maximum of our potential. We should not be so cautious at this though because we will likely forget to live and enjoy the process.

 

 

 

The irony is that people who try to preserve life very often live in some strange way which is very much not about potential, for instance the 52 year old Dorian Grey thread kind of thing. So I take your point about not being cautious.

 

I actually believe in continuation after death but not in any of the kinds of fantasy that religion tried to feed us - a lot of that is just a kind anesthetic or opiate as Marx would have said. I think that thinking about death in a non-morbid kind of a way is quite healthy and helpful. For instance it certainly makes you focus more when you realize you are not immortal. I believe in continuation because logically I reason that I am not my body ... but that's just what I think ...

[Marblehead]

I believe in continuation because logically I reason that I am not my body ... but that's just what I think ...

 

Yep. I realize that many people disagree with me on this concept. That's okay though. Variety is the spice of life. (Or something like that.)

 

The main thought I would like folks to consider is that since we have been alotted this period of time in manifest reality we should use that time the best we can and to not fear death because it is just a very natural event that happens to every living organism.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

Hi Bob,

 

A good day to you as well.

 

Yes, I think a discussion of the concept "overcoming death" is valid in this discussion (thread).

 

I personally think that many misunderstand the meaning set for by those great one who have spoke to this.

 

It is my opinion that they were not talking about overcoming physical death. It should be understood by everyone that we cannot escape physical death.

 

And as I do not hold to the concept of life after death I cannot speak to this.

 

However, "to overcome the fear of death" is a subject worthy of discussion, I think. It is my opinion that this is why the concept of "Heaven" and all related concepts were added to the various religions. To overcome the fear of death because at death we go to one of these glorious places.

 

However, there are other ways to overcome the fear of death without relying on the various religious concepts.

 

If a person is a non-religious naturalists they would understand the impermanence of life. In nature we see that all living things come to life (in whatever means for that species), and if all goes well, they mature, propogate the species, get old and then die.

 

That is one of the processes of nature (Tzujan). We can't escape the natural processes.

 

So the best we can do is try to preserve our life so that we might live to the maximum of our potential. We should not be so cautious at this though because we will likely forget to live and enjoy the process.

 

So, yes, we should never fear death because it is a given. But yet we should not be so reckless so that we hasten the process.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Hi MH,

 

I don't agree with the idea about everyone being bound by physical death. Why? Because it all boils down to the fact that the physical body is a weaving of energy and a great master could re-weave or keep that body woven together; that is if the spiritual need and purpose were great enough! Then again, having and maintaining a physical body is not the only or most important point(!), since at that degree of evolution one would be and or have integrated and attained a great soul/energy body which is what ultimately keeps the physical body going in the first palce! Such is how the Beings of the invisble realms weave so many forms together - with a divine song of living energy. This Earth Herself is a Mother soul of a different order than we are who keeps this weaving together with an exceedingly beautiful, subtle and deeply powerful song of energy, btw she also many helper spirits! And no, I didn't make any of that up, it's all right there to be witnessed and verified through the "inner eye", whereas the physical eyes only see the last of what is a very long-line of energy manifestation chains which end up becoming the physical. (thus if the subtle and foundational energies are not manintained and or woven as alluded to above, then I would agree with you that the lesser pyhsical limitations and laws would be in force or effect and under those conditions the physical would "die" after some so called "normal" amount of time, and such seems to be or sounds to me like what your only viewpoint is on the subject?)

 

Om

Edited March 28, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Why? Because it all boils down to the fact that the physical body is a weaving of energy and a great master could re-weave or keep that body woven together;

 

Well, even though what you have said is very pretty I think we will have to agree that we disagree on the subject. Hehehe. I have no intention of messing with any of the beauty in your life.

 

I have stated my understanding and will not go beyond that. Perhaps others will join the discussion.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited March 28, 2010 by Marblehead

[Apech]

Well, even though what you have said is very pretty I think we will have to agree that we disagree on the subject. Hehehe. I have no intention of messing with any of the beauty in your life.

 

I have stated my understanding and will not go beyond that. Perhaps others will join the discussion.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

I think it all boils down to whether you think that you are your body since it is your body which stops working and decays after death. If you are more than your body then it is possible that your spirit or consciousness survives death in some form or another.

 

It seems to me self evident that I am not just my body because if I chop off my leg for instance I don't get any less than I am now. This is true of all parts of my body and even my brain which as physical organ is not in a different status to any other part of the body.

[Marblehead]

I think it all boils down to whether you think that you are your body since it is your body which stops working and decays after death. If you are more than your body then it is possible that your spirit or consciousness survives death in some form or another.

 

It seems to me self evident that I am not just my body because if I chop off my leg for instance I don't get any less than I am now. This is true of all parts of my body and even my brain which as physical organ is not in a different status to any other part of the body.

 

So I would ask you please, How many thoughts is a person capable of having when their brain is physically dead?

 

Yes, it is true, our brain continues to function if one of our fingers is cut off. But it will not function exactly as it did before the finger was cut off because we will be aware of the loss of a finger and this will effect other aspects of our live and thinking.

 

But if the brain is dead where is there any mind? Where is there any consciousness? The brain is the physical object. Mind and consciousness are after-effects of the brain.

 

But, I agree that what I am will become something else when I die. What that might be, I have no clue because I believe that when my brain is dead "I" will no longer exist.

 

In fact, I believe that we are becoming something else all through our life, that is, our physical life - we consume and excrete. But when we die we only excrete - the cycle has been broken.

 

So for me the only thing that would cause me to rethink my understanding would be proof of a mind and consciousness exclusive of a physical brain.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited March 28, 2010 by Marblehead

[Apech]

So I would ask you please, How many thoughts is a person capable of having when their brain is physically dead?

 

I manage very well thanks! :lol:

 

Yes, it is true, our brain continues to function if one of our fingers is cut off. But it will not function exactly as it did before the finger was cut off because we will be aware of the loss of a finger and this will effect other aspects of our live and thinking.

 

But if the brain is dead where is there any mind? Where is there any consciousness? The brain is the physical object. Mind and consciousness are after-effects of the brain.

 

But, I agree that what I am will become something else when I die. What that might be, I have no clue because I believe that when my brain is dead "I" will no longer exist.

 

In fact, I believe that we are becoming something else all through our life, that is, our physical life - we consume and excrete. But when we die we only excrete - the cycle has been broken.

 

So for me the only thing that would cause me to rethink my understanding would be proof of a mind and consciousness exclusive of a physical brain.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Well, it is true that the brain is an important mechanism for the expression of consciousness but it is my view that consciousness or sentience is a function of the energy that makes up everything. It doesn't arise because of complexity or wiring or programming or whatever you might want to call brain functioning. A person without legs cannot walk and a person with brain dysfunction cannot express themselves but this isn't the same as saying they have no consciousness.

 

Obviously there is no proof that I can provide except to say the alternative view produces the problem of saying at what point does the supposedly unconscious matter which makes our bodies actually become conscious? If it is when the brain appears then don't amoebas and bacteria have any kind of consciousness at all???

Edited March 28, 2010 by apepch7

[Marblehead]

I manage very well thanks! :lol:

 

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Hehehe.

 

Obviously there is no proof that I can provide except to say the alternative view produces the problem of saying at what point does the supposedly unconscious matter which makes our bodies actually become conscious? If it is when the brain appears then don't amoebas and bacteria have any kind of consciousness at all???

 

Granted that there are species of animal life that have no brain. However, their nervous system perfoms the function of a brain because they are extremely limited in what they can do with their life.

 

I know how you feel about spiritual consciousness and have no desire to change your thoughts on this subject. But I have to look at this subject from my condition of understanding and I place my understanding as much as possible in what can be proven logically and naturally.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

 

I know how you feel about spiritual consciousness and have no desire to change your thoughts on this subject. But I have to look at this subject from my condition of understanding and I place my understanding as much as possible in what can be proven logically and naturally.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Sure - if we all agreed all the time life would be dull.

[3bob]

I think it all boils down to whether you think that you are your body since it is your body which stops working and decays after death. If you are more than your body then it is possible that your spirit or consciousness survives death in some form or another.

 

It seems to me self evident that I am not just my body because if I chop off my leg for instance I don't get any less than I am now. This is true of all parts of my body and even my brain which as physical organ is not in a different status to any other part of the body.

 

Well, if the "silver cord" is cut then you pretty much know that your "earth" body and the conditioned brain that you thought you were, will then come under the strictly physical laws of decay since certain energies that were connected to it before will no longer sustain it from the soul. (this is from an expeierence although I'm not an expert at all in this area)

 

Such is not unlike the physical manifestation of a fetus being nourished through the umbilical cord of their mother. (which obviously can not be cut before it has all the key elements and enough biological integration to exist on its own as a new born baby, who also has a "silver cord" soul connection)

 

God Bless the children.

 

Om

Edited March 28, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Sure - if we all agreed all the time life would be dull.

 

Yep. That's why god made blondes, redheads, brunettes, ... never mind.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited March 28, 2010 by Marblehead