retention contest

[Eternal_Student]

please, please, please.

 

its not about how much you can store up, but about how efficient you can recirculate.

the 100 days of "storing" allows for some to back up into the system. (literally )

 

just make sure you are constantly moving both aspects of the jing around the body.

the yang part AND the yin part.

 

both practices have their own speed and efficiency. one is much harder than the other and you will know when you have completed the jump to the sacral opening. but remember to recirculate both parts totally to every part of the system. not just up and around.

 

start at the field and plow it well. all four rows and all eight patches. slowly visit the yellow court and pay respects to ALL five of the local inhabitants. sneak around to the front of the red palace for a quick stay. follow the pulsing of the inner drum to initiate the sacred voice. enter slowly into the jade gate until it is totally open.

knock slightly on the front palace while waiting for the celestial energy to gather.

combine the energy of heaven and the water of the deep stream in the crystal cave. hold onto the pulsing of the waves. allow the trickling of the inner spring to revitalize the elixir of life. swallow the pill and return the flavor to the yellow palace. keep the prize secret and replant the seed in the field to grow another harvest. spring will begin again...

 

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Hi Eric, no it doesn't offend me.. i was genuinely curious.. i have many 'titles' conferred upon me, and i worked hard, too.. but, i am not the 'titles', i am just me.. i am always surprised, not offended, by those that use titles.. as for 'anonymity', my name is Bob Waers.. and, it's not 'who i am'.. eternal student and occasional teacher, are aspects of 'who i am'..

 

Be well..

[Eric Yudelove]

Greetings..

 

Hi Eric, no it doesn't offend me.. i was genuinely curious.. i have many 'titles' conferred upon me, and i worked hard, too.. but, i am not the 'titles', i am just me.. i am always surprised, not offended, by those that use titles.. as for 'anonymity', my name is Bob Waers.. and, it's not 'who i am'.. eternal student and occasional teacher, are aspects of 'who i am'..

 

Be well..

Edited March 12, 2010 by Eric Yudelove

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Thank you Eric.. i resonate with much of what you have posted.. but, honestly, i was just curious.. similarly, i don't refer to my 'titles' except as circumstance reveals an appropriateness.. i supposed that most of us already knew 'who you are'.. so, it seemed a little redundant..

 

I also resonate with the 'wicked sense of humor' (liberally sprinkled with twisted, too), but.. i reserve that for those i feel can appreciate it.. if my curiosity has raised any concern, please forgive me.. i have deep respect for Mantak's work, even the aspects where my understandings differ..

 

Be well <humble bows>..

[hagar]

Why? What necessarily makes hagar an expert on the subject and his opinion correct? Has he opened all his channels, awakened his kundalini, attained enlightenment & his immortal jalus? Is he at least in radiant health and a powerful qigong healer?

Find me a skilled person of some proven abilty with the desired attainments first, and then bestow his opinions with more credibility...Nothing against hagar personally here - and maybe he could be very highly-attained...just saying that talk in general is cheap, but proof is in the pudding. So, taste each pudding first before you proclaim the best recipe!

 

Personally, I believe that retention is after-the-fact and could even be unhealthy if forced (postnatal jing stagnation). The trick is to convert prenatal jing to yang qi (which rises like steam) - not postnatal jing (which seeks to run down & out like water) - to begin with.

But if you're sexually aroused and having sex, then you've already converted it into postnatal jing (from lust). So whether or not you retain at that point, you've already missed the crucial pass. That's the big misunderstaning (IMO). Real alchemy (IMO) is about transmuting prenatal jing to yang qi - NOT converting it to postnatal jing (through lust) and then retaining it.

 

I'm not exactly sure what your healthy options are at that point. Perhaps you could still transmute or recover it, I dunno. And ejaculating it then might be a lesser "evil" than forceful retention/stagnation.

 

Of course, I myself am not much "attained" yet either...so that is just my opinion right now. Maybe hagar is actually right, and I'm wrong?

 

A bit late maybe, but a short comment on Vortex post.

 

I totally agree with you regarding my complete and utter lack of any sort of powers or attainment. What I wrote is merely based on what my teacher and other teachers whom I trust say, and what a few short and passing glimpses of insight has left me.

 

I spent a week in the mountains skiing, and was reminded of a few things related to the discussion. Just to rephrase my point;

 

Spiritual practice is abit like skiing powder. If you don't go to the mountain, and attempt to do it, you will never experience the thrill or sublime bliss of flying through snow.

 

But no matter how good you will be at skiing powder you will never be good at becoming the mountain or the snow. It is allready there.

 

It dawned on me a few days into the trip while a blizzard was pounding the resort. I skied the trees, and saw very little, yet had a good time. Yet what is lost in a whiteout is your sense of perspective, and orientation. The next day, the sky was blue, and brilliant white peaks suddenly appeared all around.

And then I saw the Matterhorn for the first time in my life.

I realized that it had been there, lurking in its majesty, yet now it revealed is splendor. And I was totally in awe. It really didn't care if I was there to climb it, ski below it, or just sit and watch it and drink Grappa. Or if I didn't show up at all.

Yet seeing it made my feeling of accomplishment seem really silly. (skiing is my great passion)

 

This analogy is abit of a stretch, yet my point is the same. You can be skilled at retaining, skilled in Nei Dan, or sit in stillness for hours every day, yet seeing the mountain takes just that. Seeing it makes you aware that its there allready. No skill involved. The Matterhorn cares very little about how you got to the view of the mountain, and will not appear due to your intense efforts, our your immense energy at getting there.

 

The quoute about Clyman I did not write.

 

h

[markern]

A bit late maybe, but a short comment on Vortex post.

 

I totally agree with you regarding my complete and utter lack of any sort of powers or attainment. What I wrote is merely based on what my teacher and other teachers whom I trust say, and what a few short and passing glimpses of insight has left me.

 

I spent a week in the mountains skiing, and was reminded of a few things related to the discussion. Just to rephrase my point;

 

Spiritual practice is abit like skiing powder. If you don't go to the mountain, and attempt to do it, you will never experience the thrill or sublime bliss of flying through snow.

 

But no matter how good you will be at skiing powder you will never be good at becoming the mountain or the snow. It is allready there.

 

It dawned on me a few days into the trip while a blizzard was pounding the resort. I skied the trees, and saw very little, yet had a good time. Yet what is lost in a whiteout is your sense of perspective, and orientation. The next day, the sky was blue, and brilliant white peaks suddenly appeared all around.

And then I saw the Matterhorn for the first time in my life.

I realized that it had been there, lurking in its majesty, yet now it revealed is splendor. And I was totally in awe. It really didn't care if I was there to climb it, ski below it, or just sit and watch it and drink Grappa. Or if I didn't show up at all.

Yet seeing it made my feeling of accomplishment seem really silly. (skiing is my great passion)

 

This analogy is abit of a stretch, yet my point is the same. You can be skilled at retaining, skilled in Nei Dan, or sit in stillness for hours every day, yet seeing the mountain takes just that. Seeing it makes you aware that its there allready. No skill involved. The Matterhorn cares very little about how you got to the view of the mountain, and will not appear due to your intense efforts, our your immense energy at getting there.

 

The quoute about Clyman I did not write.

 

h

 

Next time you are skiing in the alps you might take some yoga with Kelly Aikins. Great girl. Knows her asana. And knows her skiing, used to be profesional.

 

Edited March 14, 2010 by markern

[rain]

A bit late maybe, but a short comment on Vortex post.

 

I totally agree with you regarding my complete and utter lack of any sort of powers or attainment. What I wrote is merely based on what my teacher and other teachers whom I trust say, and what a few short and passing glimpses of insight has left me.

 

I spent a week in the mountains skiing, and was reminded of a few things related to the discussion. Just to rephrase my point;

 

Spiritual practice is abit like skiing powder. If you don't go to the mountain, and attempt to do it, you will never experience the thrill or sublime bliss of flying through snow.

 

But no matter how good you will be at skiing powder you will never be good at becoming the mountain or the snow. It is allready there.

 

It dawned on me a few days into the trip while a blizzard was pounding the resort. I skied the trees, and saw very little, yet had a good time. Yet what is lost in a whiteout is your sense of perspective, and orientation. The next day, the sky was blue, and brilliant white peaks suddenly appeared all around.

And then I saw the Matterhorn for the first time in my life.

I realized that it had been there, lurking in its majesty, yet now it revealed is splendor. And I was totally in awe. It really didn't care if I was there to climb it, ski below it, or just sit and watch it and drink Grappa. Or if I didn't show up at all.

Yet seeing it made my feeling of accomplishment seem really silly. (skiing is my great passion)

 

This analogy is abit of a stretch, yet my point is the same. You can be skilled at retaining, skilled in Nei Dan, or sit in stillness for hours every day, yet seeing the mountain takes just that. Seeing it makes you aware that its there allready. No skill involved. The Matterhorn cares very little about how you got to the view of the mountain, and will not appear due to your intense efforts, our your immense energy at getting there.

 

The quoute about Clyman I did not write.

 

h

 

hi Hagar.

I read this

and suddenly think;

I never really understood "thus-ness"

is the mountain "it"?

[hagar]

Next time you are skiing in the alps you might take some yoga with Kelly Aikins. Great girl. Knows her asana. And knows her skiing, used to be profesional.

 

 

Great, I'll check it out!

God knows I need all the flexibility I can get as I realize I'm not 20 anymore.

 

h

[hagar]

hi Hagar.

I read this

and suddenly think;

I never really understood "thus-ness"

is the mountain "it"?

 

Don't know really. Its just an analogy. Difficult to say about the big stuff.

 

This is digressing, but I've had experiences with mountains that pretty much are initiations, or something similar.

Remember that, after months of staying near, looking at, climbing and skiing the feet of the Mont Blanc, one winter morning, I stood on top of Punta Helbronner. As always, elated, with my skiing buddies, with all our gear, helmets, harnesses, skis and poles, we went down the iron ladder to the glacier, and I lifted my head and saw the white mountain again in the brilliant sunlight, and I had to lie and say to my friends to go ahead, so that they didn't see me fall down on my knees in the snow and weep.

Suddenly it felt like it had finally accepted me and taken me into its heart.

 

h

[Sunya]

 

start at the field and plow it well. all four rows and all eight patches. slowly visit the yellow court and pay respects to ALL five of the local inhabitants. sneak around to the front of the red palace for a quick stay. follow the pulsing of the inner drum to initiate the sacred voice. enter slowly into the jade gate until it is totally open.

knock slightly on the front palace while waiting for the celestial energy to gather.

combine the energy of heaven and the water of the deep stream in the crystal cave. hold onto the pulsing of the waves. allow the trickling of the inner spring to revitalize the elixir of life. swallow the pill and return the flavor to the yellow palace. keep the prize secret and replant the seed in the field to grow another harvest. spring will begin again...

 

 

Esoteric symbology makes me feel like i'm standing outside of a house where a really awesome party is happening, but the door is locked and I don't have the key. It's also raining.

[rain]

Don't know really. Its just an analogy. Difficult to say about the big stuff.

 

This is digressing, but I've had experiences with mountains that pretty much are initiations, or something similar.

Remember that, after months of staying near, looking at, climbing and skiing the feet of the Mont Blanc, one winter morning, I stood on top of Punta Helbronner. As always, elated, with my skiing buddies, with all our gear, helmets, harnesses, skis and poles, we went down the iron ladder to the glacier, and I lifted my head and saw the white mountain again in the brilliant sunlight, and I had to lie and say to my friends to go ahead, so that they didn't see me fall down on my knees in the snow and weep.

Suddenly it felt like it had finally accepted me and taken me into its heart.

 

h

 

nevermind about thusness...

this I understand. makes me cry. it is huge

fundamental

thank you for sharing hagar.

[Ormus]

In real Nei Dan we need to eliminate emotions,desire......so to not move Yuan Jing to transform to Post Natal Jing.If it become Post Natal Jong and we try to stop ejaculating we can get in trouble related to health.And such Jing cant be converted to Yuan Qi not we can produce Seed and Yellow Sprouts.

 

It is realy hard to find Masters of pair cultivation(Yin Yang Shuang Xiu) which is diferent then Fangzhong Shu which dont recognise pre and post natal Jing but is concerned with fluids.

 

Ormus