can anything create its self or anything else?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Perhaps I have misunderstood what you mean, but a human is totally dependant and is not free at all.

 

Dependant in every way in its form as a whole , to its smallest part. Its limited in its each and every cell and can not create its self or anything else. it is made from atomic structure and elements.

It sounds as if your definition of 'human' is limited to the physical manifestation.. from my perspective, the physical manifestation is just a vehicle through which "That which is me" is free to experience the physical manifestation of existence according to whatever 'choices' 'that which is me' can conceive..

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

Greetings..

 

 

It sounds as if your definition of 'human' is limited to the physical manifestation.. from my perspective, the physical manifestation is just a vehicle through which "That which is me" is free to experience the physical manifestation of existence according to whatever 'choices' 'that which is me' can conceive..

 

Be well..

 

Hehehe. More goose bumps.

 

Peace & Love!

[shaolin]

TzuJanLi,

 

I understand you. Now we are moving in to what is human, what it is comprised of and who we reffer to when we say "I".

 

Again , these are loaded words and thousands of pages have been written about such subjects dealing with what is mind? does it have a physical location ? What is the soul and where does it exist? etc etc.

These are all relevant questions, but my questions were just two. is anything limitless as I defined it and can anything create its self or anyhing else, as I defined create as something from totally nothing.

 

The soul and mind and body make a person and are all connected but are all limited and unable to create themselves or anything else. Anything that can be contained in a limited area is also limited, anything that is part of a limited thing is also limited.

 

The next question could be, if the unlimited One created everything, why? for what reason? also why create a soul and a mind? for what reason? Has the Unlimited One contacted us and how?

 

So many serious questions arise, but I'd rather deal with one at a time to be totally sure and factual rather than let it be just another floating idea or possiblilty. For an idea to be true, it must not be a possiblilty among other possibilities. It must be the only possibility. Then it can be the truth. eg, you are expecting a visit from your mother at 6pm and at 6pm you hear a knock on your door. Its possible that its your mother, its also possible your mother could have died and its the police. Possibilities are not absolute truth until only one remains and the others have been rationally ruled out. Leaving the one that can not be ruled out, no matter how hard one tries.

 

If we get on to the topic of God, as being the unlimited One or Creator, then any belief that claims a limited thing or a created thing to be God would be in correct. Such as the trinity where God is also part human. How can a limitless thing be part limited? part limited means fully limited. Youre limited or limitless no in between.

 

Ive gone way too far. I'll stop there.

 

The question is , has this unlimited thing left and clue or reason as to why it created things? Is this totally verifiable. Doubtless and proven?

[Marblehead]

So many serious questions arise, but I'd rather deal with one at a time to be totally sure and factual rather than let it be just another floating idea or possiblilty. For an idea to be true, it must not be a possiblilty among other possibilities. It must be the only possibility. Then it can be the truth. eg, you are expecting a visit from your mother at 6pm and at 6pm you hear a knock on your door. Its possible that its your mother, its also possible your mother could have died and its the police. Possibilities are not absolute truth until only one remains and the others have been rationally ruled out. Leaving the one that can not be ruled out, no matter how hard one tries.

 

I just wanted to say that this speaks directly to my understanding of 'wu' (Mystery).

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

TzuJanLi,

 

I understand you. Now we are moving in to what is human, what it is comprised of and who we reffer to when we say "I".

 

Again , these are loaded words and thousands of pages have been written about such subjects dealing with what is mind? does it have a physical location ? What is the soul and where does it exist? etc etc.

These are all relevant questions, but my questions were just two. is anything limitless as I defined it and can anything create its self or anyhing else, as I defined create as something from totally nothing.

 

The soul and mind and body make a person and are all connected but are all limited and unable to create themselves or anything else. Anything that can be contained in a limited area is also limited, anything that is part of a limited thing is also limited.

 

The next question could be, if the unlimited One created everything, why? for what reason? also why create a soul and a mind? for what reason? Has the Unlimited One contacted us and how?

 

So many serious questions arise, but I'd rather deal with one at a time to be totally sure and factual rather than let it be just another floating idea or possiblilty. For an idea to be true, it must not be a possiblilty among other possibilities. It must be the only possibility. Then it can be the truth. eg, you are expecting a visit from your mother at 6pm and at 6pm you hear a knock on your door. Its possible that its your mother, its also possible your mother could have died and its the police. Possibilities are not absolute truth until only one remains and the others have been rationally ruled out. Leaving the one that can not be ruled out, no matter how hard one tries.

 

If we get on to the topic of God, as being the unlimited One or Creator, then any belief that claims a limited thing or a created thing to be God would be in correct. Such as the trinity where God is also part human. How can a limitless thing be part limited? part limited means fully limited. Youre limited or limitless no in between.

 

Ive gone way too far. I'll stop there.

 

The question is , has this unlimited thing left and clue or reason as to why it created things? Is this totally verifiable. Doubtless and proven?

 

that sounds like quite the box or corner you are putting yourself into shaolin...

and all based on intellect which is inherently limited.

Good luck.

[forestofemptiness]

Marblehead,

 

Why are you translating wu as mystery? Wu 無 means non-, no-, etc.

 

Are you sure you don't mean hsuan 玄 or miao 妙?

 

 

I just wanted to say that this speaks directly to my understanding of 'wu' (Mystery).

 

Peace & Love!

[forestofemptiness]

The intellect can undo itself, if pushed hard enough.

 

Most people don't push hard enough.

 

that sounds like quite the box or corner you are putting yourself into shaolin...

and all based on intellect which is inherently limited.

Good luck.

[Marblehead]

Marblehead,

 

Why are you translating wu as mystery? Wu 無 means non-, no-, etc.

 

Are you sure you don't mean hsuan 玄 or miao 妙?

 

I do not read Chinese so I am at the mercy of those who do.

 

Yes, 'wu' in my understanding means non as in "no-thing". It is "no-thing because it is not yet manifest. I use the terms Manifest as equal to the word "yo" and Mystery as equal to the word "wu".

 

So, in my mind, "wu" (the Mystery) is unlimited potential.

 

Now this speaks only to the pyhsical and non-physical aspects of the universe.

 

To the subject of individual spirituality, when we are in the condition of "yo" we are concerned only with the physical universe but when we are in the condition of "wu" we are concerned only with the non-physical universe.

 

Deep meditation takes us to the condition of "wu". In "wu" there are no limits to our (How can I say this?) awareness of Oneness.

 

That is why I said earlier that the Mystery is unlimited. When there are no limitations it naturally suggests that there is unlimited potential.

 

When we are in the state of "wu wei" we are 'not doing'. But there is potential to do or not do in response to any future condition.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

Shaolin,

 

Going back to the physics debate I found this which is quite interesting:

 

quantum vacuum

 

 

... I can't find anything on this but there must (I think ) be an effect on the event horizon of a black hole where the particle pairs which the quantum vacuum produces are differentiated - one being sucked into the black hole (i.e. effectively destroyed) while the other is liberated into space ... this would be something from nothing if you like.

 

On a more spiritual level - you have to look at what we mean by creation. We tend to think in a rather biblical way - that once there was a void and along came God and 'let there be light' and so on. This gives the idea of a sequence in time ... whereas it might be helpful to see this as more like a phase change or even a shift in perception between 'I see the emptiness' to "I see the many things". The nature of the things being modalities in energy rather than rabbits jumping out of a hat.

 

Not sure if that last bit made sense (ha ha)

 

Cheers.

 

A.