voidisyinyang Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) This are interesting comments but let me point out some things 1) Ayahuasca will leave a permanent brain transformation so after you come back you are not the same. Ayahuasca WILL OPEN UP YOUR THIRD EYE. 2) Now will it open up your 3rd Eye FULLY -- what Gurdjieff called the Number 5 person? Yes if you are like the 84 year old linked above -- you practice "la dieta" (NO SALT) and NO SEX! And you keep taking ayahuasca over and over. Such "curanderos" can SEE inside a person's body -- see their energy blockages, just like a real qigong master can do -- http://springforestqigong.com 3) Still since ayahuasca is a "chemical" source of energy it is limited -- it's not PURE CONSCIOUSNESS -- it just connects you to it! So ayahuasca healers rely on giving ayahuasca to do their healing work. In other words it's like the curanderos are "possessed" or spirit "mediums" for ayahuasca -- a more passive role -- then a qigong master or yogin who knows how to "control" the energy for transmission. 4) Will ayahuasca open up the MCO? The MCO is the secret of Kriya but as Mantak Chia emphasizes the MCO or small universe is the main difference between traditional kundalini yoga and Taoist alchemy. In other words even in yoga, as Glen Morris and Gopi Krishna discovered, there needs to be a "grounding" of the energy through connecting the front and back channels. Once the Third Eye is open though the energy will transmit out of the body naturally through the head -- so if you do have "extra" energy it will NATURALLY get sucked up by people around you who need it. (since most people do not know how to make electromagnetic energy). Ayahuasca does not focus on making electromagnetic energy but rather converts your JING or electrochemical kundalini energy directly to SHEN or SHAKTI laser rainbow energy aka the DMT Hyperspace. 5) It should be noted that the SONGS or ICAROS of the Ayahuasca healers are considered the crucial secret to not only "guiding" the healing sessions but also to giving the power to the plant -- why? BECAUSE THE WOMEN SING THE SONGS -- and just like in the Bushmen tradition and in the book "Taoist Yoga" -- the voice is the vehicle for the electrochemical jing female energy. So when the ayahuasca activates the kundalini the ayahuasca sucks up the electrochemical energy and then converts it back into spirit-light SHEN energy through the DMT transformation. It should be noted, in conclusion, that psychotropics work with NEUROPEPTIDES, which are what convert the bioelectricity of the muscles and bones. There's a whole new field of "bioelectric" medical technology based on activating the neuropeptides. There is ALSO a new field of Western medical psychotropic DRUGS focused on activating the neuropeptides as well. Normally the neuropeptides are activated by genetic expression but with increased bioelectricity from DMT conducting through the pineal gland then the process is reversed. Personally I would go with ayahuasca instead of a Western synthetic psychotropic. People are getting healed for cancer and other serious conditions by using ayahausca curanderos, as reported on http://realitysandwich.com "I find it absolutely horrifying that our dark overlords have successfully managed to convince the population that pharmaceutical monstrosities of their creation and sacred herbs of god's creation are all in the same category -- "drugs." I don't even want to go there... Drugs my ass. I would really like to see an average chemical-dependency fiend on ayahuaska... shudder." I more or less agree. But the point I got out of Darin's video--or rather, my personal stance is, taking drugs to get high, and taking a specific drug/mixture (like Ayahuasca, Iboga, etc..) under the guidance of a teacher, while having an actual purpose--these are two different things. The big difference bieng, IMO, the element of respect. Respect for the plants, and respect for yourself. I very much doubt that anyone would be able to function while under the effects of Ayahuasca 24/7. So, there is the very real burden of dealing with the reality you are left with when you come down. So, how far have you really gone? Do people gain the life long ability to open and balance their chakras or run the MCO at will after doing Ayahuasca? No. Its like Vegas in that respect--whatever happens in Ayahuasca land, stays in Ayahuasca land. Sure, you may get some real good answers to dilemmas your stuck in, deeeper insight, etc. But you wont get far in the sober world by taking 'drugs' and leaving it at that. Also, I believe there is a point for most people where they have to let go of doing things like psychedelics in order to progress more. Its easy to get stuck in them, but IMO, they are just a step on the path. Man made drugs can REALLY mess you up quick. Natural is better most of the time. Edited November 7, 2009 by drewhempel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
everseeking Posted November 7, 2009 Look, I agree with you guys very much. I doubt Darin has much firsthand knowledge of these types of things--The Ayahuasca ritual, healing, etc.., or the Bwiti taking Iboga, and the many amazing things that go with that particular plant. Like the guy who was given Iboga in a drug rehab to kick his crack habit--he went (in his trip) to a village of light and met the mother and father of creation. Same as the Bwiti describe as being the peak Iboga experience. But still, no matter what you get from a trip like that, (aside from healing disease), you still come back to the reality you left, more or less, and you have to keep dealing with that. I agree 100000000% that taking part in these rituals can heal people, open up their consciousness, and do many great things. I don't feel that that is what Darin's video means by 'dont take drugs'. I feel like what he's talking about is more along the lines of getting high and trying to advance yourself spiritually by smoking weed every day and being a lard ass and fooling yourself into thinking you are advancing spiritually. Respect and dedicated work are part of success and advancement. as for this-- "There's scientific evidence out there that these plants have made us human in the physiological sense too, by rewiring our monkey brains the human way. We have receptors in the brain for each and every one of the sacred plants traditionally used by tribal folks for thousands of years. " I disagree in part--we also have carbon monoxide receptors if you choose to think of them that way--does that mean we are destined to asphyxiate ourselves? These chemical interactions are governed by chemistry and physics. Magnets weren't 'meant' to attract iron. They attract all ferrous metals with impunity. Receptors in the brain attract whatever fits. We couldn't possibly have them if these experiences weren't part of who we are as a species. We are meant to have them. I disagree again in part--I get an erection when I look at a picture or video ( key point-2 dimensional representation ) of a naked woman--does that mean I am destined to have sex with pictures? Or does my brain simply interpret the stimulus in a similar way to the real thing? I feel that these plants are amazing, and I don't think its entirely coincidence that we can eat/drink/smoke them and have amazing experiences. But thats all they are--experiences. External stimuli. They can take you on amazing trips, show you peaks within yourself you would never know exist, and many other great things--and IMO thats fine, as long as you do it with respect and moderation--and most importantly, recognize it for what it is--a fun ride. Its not entirely fate that these plants do what they do either. The truth is much more amazing, and cant be summarized in words. The Tao that can be named is NOT the true Tao!! With love for you all, please realize that I recognize this is just MY OPINION--but.... These things -Ayahuasca, Psilocybin, Iboga, etcc--arent meant to be PATHS, they are meant to be TOOLS for seldom/occasional use in healing and breaking past barriers, and as STEPS along the path. To do them often as you means of cultivation misses the mark. Its like the idea that if you watch really good dancers on TV, you will gain the ability to dance. Not so! They might help motivate you, but you still gotta put the work in. And I imagine we all agree that drinking lots of beer every night, or doing cocaine frequently will NOT further you spiritually. Nor will smoking lots of pot every day. (Unless you are a true Rastafarian ) I felt that that was the type of 'doing drugs' Darin's video was aimed at. I could be wrong, but at least now I have shared my perspective. Love you all! And BTW, I really like the idea of plants making us 'human' by rewiring us. I know these plants can have their own spirit so to speak, I have tried several things once or twice and one of them-salvia-spoke to me. It wasn't cool--it wanted to scare me, because I didn't like it and I didn't take it with respect--I took it for all the wrong reasons. It spoke to me from inside me head. Creepy. Anyway, I hope you all appreciate where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree. Peace!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) This are interesting comments but let me point out some things 1) Ayahuasca will leave a permanent brain transformation so after you come back you are not the same. Ayahuasca WILL OPEN UP YOUR THIRD EYE. Yes, in passing. 2) Now will it open up your 3rd Eye FULLY -- what Gurdjieff called the Number 5 person? Yes if you are like the 84 year old linked above -- you practice "la dieta" (NO SALT) and NO SEX! And you keep taking ayahuasca over and over. Such "curanderos" can SEE inside a person's body -- see their energy blockages, just like a real qigong master can do -- http://springforestqigong.com No salt -- because it is electrochemically active and interferes with the process. Interestingly, ayahuaska kills all your chemical and food dependencies on the spot, tobacco, coffee, even wheat! -- and if you want to keep it this way, it's easy. And if you don't, in the first few days you simply can't enjoy those things, but then you can revert to your prior metabolism if you choose to. (I chose to stay away from wheat permanently, and it's been eight months.) Another part of the "dieta" is plenty of tryptophan-rich foods, which in the rainforest translates into all kinds of bananas and plantains, which are fried, boiled, mashed, steamed, grilled and so on. It gets old by day four, and the shaman tells you to eat what you like, and does so himself/herself. As for sex, that's something you abstain from a couple of days before the ceremony and a few days after, is all. Ayahuaska is cosmic jing, among other things, so She can't possibly be asexual, in fact She can show you how species that reproduce asexually experience their version of what we experience as sexual desire. Very far out, and connected to sacred geometry, believe it or not. 3) Still since ayahuasca is a "chemical" source of energy it is limited -- it's not PURE CONSCIOUSNESS -- it just connects you to it! So ayahuasca healers rely on giving ayahuasca to do their healing work. In other words it's like the curanderos are "possessed" or spirit "mediums" for ayahuasca -- a more passive role -- then a qigong master or yogin who knows how to "control" the energy for transmission. I have a richly illustrated book, Plants of the Gods, by the famous German researchers into the issue, with photographs of yogi sages smoking ganja from huge pipes, for the purpose of facilitating their spiritual advancement. No plant is "impure" and "chemicals" are to plants containing them what your toenails are to your overall person -- one is not equal to the other, your toenails are not you, if you cut them off they have some of you in them... but not enough to make a complete Drew, totally not enough, and it's absolutely the same with chemicals extracted from plants. A plant is not a mixture of chemicals, anymore than you're a mixture of toenails and hairs and DMT molecules. A plant, just like you, is a sentient being not reducible to the sum of its parts. Ayahuaska is known as the Teacher plant, and how is a plant teacher different from a human teacher? only in that the former is millions or even billions of years older than the latter, knows billions of times more, and teaches directly from inside of you rather than indirectly from the outside. There's a fairly famous taoist saying to this effect -- "a good student learns from a good teacher, a great student learns from a great master, and the best student learns from plants." Maybe more later... sheesh, didn't I swear to myself to not discuss it on forums?... but I couldn't resist answering to a post you submitted at 11:11, it's one of my funky numbers... Edited November 7, 2009 by Taomeow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted November 7, 2009 drugs is external alchemy meditation is internal alchemy it's like antibiotics compared to your own white blood cells: both can kill an infection, but the antibiotics kill the healthy cells also... there's a hipe about drugs these days, wherever you go. god help me to stay clean and focused, shy as a maiden Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) And then I accidentally pulled this lady's spirit right out of the top of her head without touching her! She was sitting and I was standing to her side -- she couldn't see what I was doing but she had asked me for a healing. As soon as I felt this heavy electromagnetic blob come out the center of her skull she immediately bawled nonstop for at least 15 minutes. This Arthur C. Clarke 9 mn vid on the Mandlebrot Fractal is a better way to understand ayahuasca DMT hyperspace: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewv...&tid=168073 "Islands of order in a sea of chaos" (just like ayahuasca drug trip!) -- Math professor Ian Stewart Parts 2 to 6 http://vodpod.com/watch/572398-fractals-ar...c-clarke-2-of-6 Part 5 Arthur C. Clarke invokes fractals as the model for the brain stating that psychedelic drugs create fractal visions and also that it's a synchronicity that Mandalas look like Mandelbrots. http://vodpod.com/watch/572489-fractals-ar...c-clarke-5-of-6 drugs is external alchemy meditation is internal alchemy it's like antibiotics compared to your own white blood cells: both can kill an infection, but the antibiotics kill the healthy cells also... there's a hipe about drugs these days, wherever you go. god help me to stay clean and focused, shy as a maiden Edited November 8, 2009 by drewhempel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted November 8, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJy81liv4Q Darin- Please stop holding your sword by the blade! It just drives me nuts! Your friend, Steve PS I've done my share of drugs over the years and have lived through watching my children begin to experiment with them (a painful experience). From the perspective of cultivation in the Daoist tradition that I practice, there is absolutely no role for the use of drugs. It is a process of developing the mind of intent. Drugs do nothing to assist that process, they only detract.... Nevertheless, it is not for me to tell others what to do or not to do.. except for when I see people holding the blade of a sword! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Man Contradiction Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) It is a process of developing the mind of intent. Drugs do nothing to assist that process, they only detract.... I have to try and humbly disagree. I've seen extended periods of weed and LSD or shroom use aid in people developing awareness and control of their intention. Obviously not to the degree that I've seen in a good internal martial artist, but better than the average person. Edited November 8, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) Edited November 8, 2009 by drewhempel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taiji Bum Posted November 8, 2009 Darin- Please stop holding your sword by the blade! It just drives me nuts! Your friend, Steve Ok.... I'll try. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) "Ayahuasca: worlds most powerful herbal medicine!" DMT -- beyond any other drug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG42lFHK7Cc...feature=related Joe Rogan on DMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m51X4z1xVWE...feature=related Edited November 8, 2009 by drewhempel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted November 8, 2009 I have to try and humbly disagree. I've seen extended periods of weed and LSD or shroom use aid in people developing awareness and control of their intention. Obviously not to the degree that I've seen in a good internal martial artist, but better than the average person. I'm going to have to continue to disagree with you on this point. What I'm talking about is a specific type of focused awareness that is cultivated by Daoist practices. I don't think there is any way you could observe or measure this skill in someone other than yourself. "I find it absolutely horrifying that our dark overlords have successfully managed to convince the population that pharmaceutical monstrosities of their creation and sacred herbs of god's creation are all in the same category -- "drugs." I don't even want to go there... Drugs my ass. I would really like to see an average chemical-dependency fiend on ayahuaska... shudder." I more or less agree. But the point I got out of Darin's video--or rather, my personal stance is, taking drugs to get high, and taking a specific drug/mixture (like Ayahuasca, Iboga, etc..) under the guidance of a teacher, while having an actual purpose--these are two different things. The big difference bieng, IMO, the element of respect. Respect for the plants, and respect for yourself. I very much doubt that anyone would be able to function while under the effects of Ayahuasca 24/7. So, there is the very real burden of dealing with the reality you are left with when you come down. So, how far have you really gone? Do people gain the life long ability to open and balance their chakras or run the MCO at will after doing Ayahuasca? No. Its like Vegas in that respect--whatever happens in Ayahuasca land, stays in Ayahuasca land. Sure, you may get some real good answers to dilemmas your stuck in, deeeper insight, etc. But you wont get far in the sober world by taking 'drugs' and leaving it at that. Also, I believe there is a point for most people where they have to let go of doing things like psychedelics in order to progress more. Its easy to get stuck in them, but IMO, they are just a step on the path. Man made drugs can REALLY mess you up quick. Natural is better most of the time. Nice post, especially the part about pharmaceuticals vs "drugs" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted November 8, 2009 Touching the sword blade also goes against the sword and bokken training I've had. Matter of fact even stepping over a bokken was considered a breach of etiquette and if it was a sword you may as well keep heading out of the room. On the drug matter, drugs kill, cause addiction and destroy lives, lots of them. I think there's wide room for debating how liberal we should be. If there are lone voices preaching against them, thats fine w/ me. It balances out the any drug any where fan clubs. Lets be careful out there, particularly when we tread on other cultures sacred plants. Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nilo Posted November 8, 2009 What if you kno you are not limited to this body and you know that there is no external or internal? drugs is external alchemy meditation is internal alchemy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 8, 2009 Shotokan head kick kills drunk in a bar. Practitioner is acquitted. http://books.google.com/books?id=udYDAAAAM...ken&f=false Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Man Contradiction Posted November 8, 2009 What if you kno you are not limited to this body and you know that there is no external or internal? Than you have forgotten about how the relative and the absolute relate to eachother. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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