What makes Buddhism different?

[Marblehead]

Caused by the Tao. Sorry that's reify to a Buddhist.

 

 

You're are not listening! Caused by Tzujan. The natural processes of everything and every non-thing (I was going to say the universe but that would be limiting).

 

From "Dynamic Tao" by Wayne L Wang, PhD:

 

"Tzu-Jan is commonly translated as "nature". It is, however, not the nature of the physical world, but is the spiritual naturalness. Tzu-Jan is the primordial unperturbed process of self-development. It is the state of Oneness. Self-so. Spontaneity. Naturally so. With no apparent reason."

 

So it is Tzu-Jan that is the cause and the processes (Way) of Tao are the effects.

 

Happy Trails!

[Apech]

 

We had a discussion once. His view of Vajrayana is quite subjective and actually quite mis-interpretive. Though, I respect what he does and see value in it. I just don't think he's a Buddha. He doesn't seem to have direct insight into dependent origination, only primal causation. As in... he see's a divine and ineffable source to all manifestation. A supreme will if you will.

 

 

Does Vajrasattva claim to be a Buddha??????

[Vajrahridaya]

And I think it would be pretty arrogant of you to openly say that you have experience with dependent origination.

 

Love,

Carson

 

I'm already labeled by many of you as arrogant so yes, I do have personal experience of dependent origination as all beings do. It's just applying it to subtler realms of experience that happen while sitting on the meditation mat that most people do not do, unless they are Buddhist.

 

 

 

 

 

So it is Tzu-Jan

 

Happy Trails!

 

Fine, then you consider Tzu-Jan as the one true essence of all things. So that's reify to a Buddhist.

[Marblehead]

 

Which is why I'm Buddhist. I don't have faith in an ineffable ambiguity that is the subtle essence of things which exists, but lies beyond logic and reason.

 

 

So what do you believe in? Can you keep it to fifty words or less?

 

Happy Trails!

[Vajrahridaya]

priceless!!!

.

 

Why thank you! I sure hope I don't have a price on my head!!??

[Marblehead]

priceless!!!

.

 

Isn't that sometimes called bullshit?

 

Happy Trails!

[Vajrahridaya]

So what do you believe in? Can you keep it to fifty words or less?

 

Happy Trails!

 

Endless, sourceless causation. Without beginning, nor end and without a primordial essence other than all aspects being without essential nature and empty of inherent substance both individually and cosmically. As there really is no cosmos, only a whole bunch of connected processes.

[CarsonZi]

Endless, sourceless causation. Without beginning, nor end and without a primordial essence other than all aspects being without essential nature and empty of inherent substance both individually and cosmically. As there really is no cosmos, only a whole bunch of connected processes.

 

Beliefs, beliefs and more beliefs .....they all gotta be tossed before you can truly KNOW.

 

Love,

Carson

[Marblehead]

 

Fine, then you consider Tzu-Jan as the one true essence of all things. So that's reify to a Buddhist.

 

Come to think about it, forget it. You do not listen; perhaps you are incapable of listening to words you don't want to hear. You go ahead and reify your little heart out. I don't care. If you can't find any real essence in this life I feel really sorry for you.

 

So far you have told me absolutely nothing of use in regard to Buddhism. You are in a rut and can't get out. A record stuck on a truntable.

 

If you feel nothing exists then that is fine. If you think you were King Edward in a previous life that's fine too.

 

But please don't judge Taoism according to you delusional Buddhist concepts. It really gets boring listening to the crap. Spend some time trying to help some of the members of the forum. That would give you plenty to do. Might even get you some good Karma and your next life might be the Alpha male of a wolf pack.

 

So you go ahead and reify anything you want. No! You can't reify anything, I forgot. I am sure that someone reified the computer you use though. So you are using what someone else has reified.

 

I think I will go reify something.

 

Happy Trails!

[Vajrahridaya]

Beliefs, beliefs and more beliefs .....they all gotta be tossed before you can truly KNOW.

 

Love,

Carson

 

In Buddhism, the teaching is reflective of the realization. So, they are realizations more than beliefs as far as the specifically Buddhist teachings on the nature of how the cosmos works that is.

 

For us, liberation is not a thoughtless state of trance that we label ultimate reality.

 

That's just a state of meditative focus for us and not something to be equated with enlightenment.

 

 

 

 

It really gets boring listening to the crap.

 

Happy Trails!

 

Maybe you should stop reading my postings then.

[Apech]

 

 

For us, liberation is not a thoughtless state of trance that we label ultimate reality.

 

 

 

 

There you go again, who said they believed in that?

[Marblehead]

Endless, sourceless causation. Without beginning, nor end and without a primordial essence other than all aspects being without essential nature and empty of inherent substance both individually and cosmically. As there really is no cosmos, only a whole bunch of connected processes.

 

Damn! My man believes in nothing!

 

Sorry. Wait a minute while I try to understand what you just wrote. . . . .

 

Okay. So you are a process - a part of an endless, sourceless causation. Hmmmm!

 

And this process that you are has no essential nature and you are empty of substance. Wow! Hey you said that.

 

There really is no cosmos so there really is no universe so there really is no you.

 

You would be, however, if there were a cosmos, just a whole bunch of connected processes. Now that sounds like string theory.

 

And you don't believe in the Big Bang? And you don't believe the universe exists? And you don't believe the fact of evolution? Because all of these requires reification.

 

Do you believe in the chair you are sitting in? Do you believe your girlfriend exists?

 

Happy Trails!

[Vajrahridaya]

There you go again, who said they believed in that?

 

I was talking to Carson Zi.

[Marblehead]

 

Maybe you should stop reading my postings then.

 

No. I have to watch your posts because every time you say something negative about Taoism I am going to be on your ass.

 

Happy Trails!

[CarsonZi]

Vajra buddy.....

 

In Buddhism, the teaching is reflective of the realization. So, they are realizations more than beliefs as far as the specifically Buddhist teachings on the nature of how the cosmos works that is.

 

What you posted (the ramble on "Endless, sourceless causation") was in response to the question "what are your beliefs in 500wrds or less" or whatever. You need to be a little more consistant to be "believable" :lol:

 

For us, liberation is not a thoughtless state of trance that we label ultimate reality.

 

"us"? You speak for the whole of Buddhism/Buddhists? (not to mention the entire of spiritual mankind since you know what everyone else calls "liberation" ) I know you admit to being arrogant but really

 

That's just a state of meditative focus for us and not something to be equated with enlightenment.

 

And also in no way what I call "enlightenment" so I'm not sure why you wrote this to me.

 

I can play your game all day long....I used to be you....I used to argue for the sake of arguing. I used to DEFINE my Path as the Path of Dialectic Conversation....then I found Silence....and subsequently Peace....and then Happiness....then Bliss......now Equanimity and Outpouring Divine Love. I suggest you spend a little more time in Silence and a little less time arguing that you are "right"

 

Love ya man.

 

Love,

Carson

Edited September 23, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

And you don't believe in the Big Bang?

 

 

I've explained this to you before that the big bang happens over and over again, the big bang the big crunch, it's called the universal cycle that happens over and over again since beginningless time. The expansion and contraction of the universe.

 

And you don't believe the universe exists?

 

It relatively exists. Just like myself.

 

And you don't believe the fact of evolution?

 

Of course I do. Who said that I don't? All beings evolve, we even evolve daily.

 

Because all of these requires reification.

 

I should say rather, ultimating. The Tao seems to be made an ultimate source of things, the homogeneous ground of all being. The oneness of all things, the single essence of all beings.

 

Is that right?

 

Do you believe in the chair you are sitting in? Do you believe your girlfriend exists?

 

Happy Trails!

 

How many times have we gone through this Marblehead? I believe in relative existence, not ultimate existence.

 

You should take some Ginko Marble. We've had this conversation many times before my brother.

[Machin Shin]

DID YOU KNOW THAT MOST SALMON FIND THEIR HOME WATERS BY USING IT'S SENSE OF SMELL?

 

WHICH IS MORE KEEN THAN THAT OF A DOGS OR BEAR!

 

ARRRH WHICH WAY TO THE COVE?

[Vajrahridaya]

Vajra buddy.....

What you posted (the ramble on "Endless, sourceless causation") was in response to the question "what are your beliefs in 500wrds or less" or whatever. You need to be a little more consistant to be "believable" :lol:

 

 

Yes... because it's contextual. I generally think of a belief as a projection of an ideal, rather than a realization, which is what Buddhism is, a realization rather than a system of beliefs. It's a conceptual expression of how the cosmos works. So, not so much of a be-lie-f. To me.

 

"us"? You speak for the whole of Buddhism/Buddhists? I know you admit to being arrogant but really

And also in no way what I call "enlightenment" so I'm not sure why you wrote this to me.

 

I was speaking about ultimating some beyond thought state of consciousness as the source of all being which is what you seem to do. I could be wrong. But you believe that this universe has a God, and that this is that God's lila. Everything is a manifestation of one transcendent non-thing?

 

I can play your game all day long....I used to be you....I used to argue for the sake of arguing. I used to DEFINE my Path as the Path of Dialectic Conversation....then I found Silence....and subsequently Peace....and then Happiness....then Bliss......now Equanimity and Outpouring Divine Love. I suggest you spend a little more time in Silence and a little less time arguing that you are "right"

 

Love ya man.

 

Love,

Carson

 

No, you never used to be me. I used to believe as you do Carson Zi.

 

It's good you have some experiences with divine love. What you think of as merging with the Godhead. 10 years ago I used to walk around NYC in tears of "divine" love wishing everyone could know this deep state of being one with God and how they could be happier if they let go of these worldly attachments. Then I would think... we'll it's my time to know this divine Truth, so I will just let them be and just give that love silently. I hardly talked much and mostly spent my time meditating and reading, fasting, doing hatha yoga, etc. Buddhism takes me deeper.

 

 

oops, 15 years ago, not 10. I was in California 10 years ago living next to an Ashram, going there every morning at 4 am to do the daily practice sessions. How time fly's.

[CarsonZi]

Vajra

 

I was speaking about ultimating some beyond thought state of consciousness as the source of all being which is what you seem to do. I could be wrong.

 

Yes, you are wrong. This is not what I believe.

 

But you believe that this universe has a God, and that this is that God's lila.

 

Again, the arrogance is almost astounding....that you would actually write that you think you know what my "beliefs" are.....you really have no clue man. *said in the nicest of possible ways*

 

Everything is a manifestation of one transcendent non-thing?

 

No. Everything just Is. That is my experience...I don't even believe this. I KNOW this.

 

No, you never used to be me.

 

We are One Vajrahridaya....I used to be, am and will always be, You.

 

I used to believe as you do Carson Zi.

 

Again, how you are intuiting what my beliefs are is very curious to me.

 

It's good you have some experiences with divine love.

 

Not experiences with....AM Divine Love.

 

What you think of as merging with the Godhead.

 

There is no God, hence no Godhead to merge with. I do not think I am merging with the Godhead. Please do not continue to put words in my mouth....that is not nice

 

10 years ago I used to walk around NYC in tears of "divine" love wishing everyone could know this deep state of being one with God and how they could be happier if they let go of these worldly attachments. Then I would think... we'll it's my time to know this divine Truth, so I will just let them be and just give that love silently. I hardly talked much and mostly spent my time meditating and reading, fasting, doing hatha yoga, etc. Buddhism takes me deeper.

 

It'd be nice if you went back to that state of hardly talking much and just giving Love silently...that would be MUCH more effective then the approach you are taking now. You are reaching noone, clarifying nothing talking as you are.

 

I mean this in the most respectful way possible.

 

Love ya.

 

Love,

Carson

 

P.S> I have to go home now. So....peace out

Edited September 23, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Stigweard]

[Marblehead]

I've explained this to you before that the big bang happens over and over again, the big bang the big crunch, it's called the universal cycle that happens over and over again since beginningless time. The expansion and contraction of the universe.

 

This is what I believe and this is what Taoism suggests.

 

It relatively exists. Just like myself.

 

Okay.

 

Of course I do. Who said that I don't? All beings evolve, we even evolve daily.

I should say rather, ultimating. The Tao seems to be made an ultimate source of things, the homogeneous ground of all being. The oneness of all things, the single essence of all beings. Is that right?

 

Figuratively but not literally. At the beginning of this beginning all was one. That is a scientific fact. The Big Bang happened and One became two, etc, etc. Things evolved and you and I came into existence. Yes, our existence in only temporary just like everything else. When the Big Crunch happens every 'thing' will again be one. But right now you and I relatively exist. Don't forget Tzu-Jan. What's that term you use? Dependant origination? Remember, Tao is not a thing in itself. It is a word used to define All as well as the word used to define the processes in the universe.

 

How many times have we gone through this Marblehead? I believe in relative existence, not ultimate existence.

 

Well, there is no ultimate existence. No wonder you don't believe in it. How many times have we done this? Many. How many times more are we going to do this? It's up to you.

 

You should take some Ginko Marble. We've had this conversation many times before my brother.

 

I am drinking some green tea at the moment. Yes, some of our conversations are redundant but that's life.

 

We might have to pepeat this from time to time just so I am sure you still exist though.

 

Happy Trails!

[Marblehead]

[atena]

So how does one actually cultivate the view of dependent origination? Any particular methods for that?

[Vajrahridaya]

[ralis]

Vajraji,

 

Do you have a job? I have been out all day managing a successful business and I see you have been posting the same old arguments all day. LOL!!

 

ralis