Journey to the West

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Marblehead hearts Buddhism!

 

Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that,

 

Thanks for the Confuscian lesson! There has got to be some sort of inner cultivation side of C. somewhere though? In their music theory or something? It's got to exist somewhere!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

 

 

You might be right Yoda, but tell you honestly I'm not the man to go looking for it. I didn't say they don't believe in personal cultivation, they do, but they believe you create rules and regulations then peer pressure molds the inner character to become good. I'm all for good, but it just creates a stronger inner shadow, people act good and nice but there's a lot of repression and dysfunction going on. Taoism and I think Buddhism for the most part deal with this through specific practice, but Confuscianism never really deals with the issue. Having said that..... more so in Japan I think, the idea of creating perfect art, an external condition can be said to create perfection in the spirit....then again I believe that to be a Zen concept....hmmm, I think I'm just realizing that Zen has taken a bit of Confuscianism...I never noticed that before, I don't recall that Chan Buddhism has much of that. I may be wrong though.

 

You just made me think of another thing Yoda.... your'e right, it is in the art. For example in the west when someone studies art they will learn some techniques but if they have to paint something they will be given free reign to paint it how they like, whereas in China each brush stroke is specific and must look like/as close to the way a perhaps famous artist has once painted it. Only when they can replicate this external are they then considered to be an artist of standing, then they are 'allowed' to create their own art and be creative. Your right, it is there.... I hadn't thought about it before. Thanks for making my brain work, sometimes it needs a bit of a slap

 

I'm intrigued with marbleheads circular triad/angle.

[Marblehead]

 

I'm intrigued with marbleheads circular triad/angle.

 

That is something that came to me many years ago but I have never tried to develop or support my thoughts.

 

Happy Trails!

[Mal]

So after a rather griping battle with The Mighty Miracle God and Prince Nezha the Great sages emerges undefeated.

 

let him be a Great Sage

Equaling Heaven. It would only be an empty title that he was given, just an honorary appointment."

"What do you mean by an honorary appointment?" asked the Jade Emperor.

"He would be called a Great Sage Equaling Heaven, but he would not be given any responsibility or paid any

salary. He would be kept between Heaven and Earth, where his evil nature would be under control and he

would be kept from wickedness.

 

So Monkey is happy or at least happy to behave in the expected way.

"Let Sun Wukong come forward," said the Jade Emperor. "We do now proclaim you Great Sage Equaling

Heaven. Your rank is now very high. Let there be no more mischief from you." The monkey simply chanted

"na−a−aw" to express his thanks to the Emperor

Or does he want more that just a flowery title and will it really keep him out of trouble

[Mal]

Chapter 5 apparently not enough to keep him out of trouble. But would he have acted this way if treated with respect by heaven initially? He was not as stuffy and rule bound but honest and childlike in his actions.

"The Great Sage Equaling Heaven is spending his time

in idle travel, and is making the acquaintance of all the stars in the sky, calling them all his friends irrespective

of their rank

Is that a bad thing? Why not invite him to a feast. Even though he is in the "club" he is being treated like an outsider. Perhaps heaven objects to "new money"

 

After a quick rendition of Moving to the country gonna eat a lot of peaches

The Great Sage went straight to the room in which the elixir was kept,

and although he could not find Lao Zi there he saw that there was a small fire in the stove beside the range

over which pills were made. On either side of the stove were five gourds, full of golden pills of refined elixir.

"This is the Immortals' greatest treasure," he exclaimed in delight. "I've wanted to refine some of these golden

pills to save people with ever since I understood the Way and mastered the principle of the correspondence of

the Esoteric and Exoteric, but I've never had time to come here. Today I'm in luck−−I've found them. As Lao

Zi isn't here I'll try a few." He emptied the gourds of their contents and ate up all the pills as if he were eating

fried beans.

If only we could cultivate like that

 

As Monkey has a rather tasty feast on all the good stuff and finally realising he may have been a touch greedy he returns home. Had he really abandon his family or was just so taken up in the moment that he just doesn't notice the passing of time, made worse by it being faster outside of heaven. Always happy to share everyone is having a good time till the fun police arrive.

"Little goblins, where's that Great Sage of yours? We are gods, sent

from the upper world to subdue your mutinous Great Sage. Tell him to surrender at once−−−and if there's so

much as a hint of a 'no' from him, we will exterminate every last one of you."

Real friendly

"The stinking gods!" exploded the Great Sage, "What nerve! I never wanted a fight with them, so why should

they come here to push us around?"

and they got what they deserved

Guanyin Comes to the Feast and Asks the Reason Why

The Little Sage Uses His Might to Subdue the Great Sage

6 sounds like fun

[Yoda]

as if he were eating

fried beans.

 

 

 

Great quotes Mal!

[Marblehead]

Okay. I skipped over Mal's notes because I just finished Chapter 4 and I don't want a preview. Hehehe.

 

Ch 4 was more of the ego thing. The need for a label and grand title which is very non-Philosophical Taoist but I think is very much Religious Taoist and Buddhist as well as Confucian.

 

Next.

 

Happy Trails!

[Mal]

[Marblehead]

[Yoda]

The middle part of J2W is best, chapter 9 on. The journey chapters after awhile get a bit repetitive but there are notable exceptions: The kingdom where the emperor ate children for immortality, the MK training the three princes in martial arts was old school Taoism in action, the changing the weather showdown, and anytime an emperor goes dark is a crowd pleaser.

 

There are Taoism gems throughout but the strictly entertainment value is 9-70 or so.

[Mal]

We will get there, looking at the pretty scenery ready for 6 yet Marblehead

[Marblehead]

We will get there, looking at the pretty scenery ready for 6 yet Marblehead

 

Almost ready. I allowed myself to get distracted. Hehehe.

 

Happy Trails!

[Marblehead]

Almost ready. I allowed myself to get distracted. Hehehe.

 

Happy Trails!

 

Okay. I finished Chapter 5. More monkey business.

 

I know he is an immortal but somebody needs to slap the shit out of him. Seems like everytime he is given something to do he screws it up.

 

Chapter 6 Here I come!

 

Happy Trails!

[Marblehead]

Okay. Someone finally showed him he wasn't invincible. Of course, I doubt that he will be beheaded but that's the next chapter.

 

Other than the less of understanding that no matter how good you are there is always someone better than you I didn't see any other lessons.

 

Happy Trails!

[Mal]

the lesson of understanding that no matter how good you are there is always someone better than you

 

That what I though too

 

It's sort of like an Id story. Monkey is not really being bad or evil, he is look our for himself, then his family. He just had no concern for how his actions might effect others.

[Marblehead]

That what I though too

 

It's sort of like an Id story. Monkey is not really being bad or evil, he is look our for himself, then his family. He just had no concern for how his actions might effect others.

 

Hi Mal,

 

Indeed. He is not really intentionally being bad or evil. Intention, in my mind, is the key factor regarding all of our actions in life. So I can really call him evil. But boy! does he have an ego!

 

And as I mentioned in that thread about ego, I feel we do need our ego for survival. But Monkey's ego is way over-inflated. And you are right, he is taking care of himself first and then, when he gets around to it, taking care of his family.

 

But there are always effects from the things we do in life that may effect many others beyond what we can, in that moment of action, see.

 

Happy Trails!

[Yoda]

Here's what I'd suggest for anyone J2W curious but doesn't want to commit a lot of time:

 

Read chapters 9-11: they cover the Imperial examination system, spouse selection, a Moses baby story, a buddhist monk's veangance, a riverside funeral, Chinese hermit poetry slam, divination, the fate of a weather dragon king, Imperial justice, origin of the Door Gods, hauntings and a death, the underworld/hell, the hell justice system, family relationships in the underworld, hell realms, paying the underworld back, hell dollars, pumpkins, the story of a "walk in" soul.

 

Those chapters are loaded!

 

Then skip to chapter 24. By this time the Monkey King has promised to work off evil karma and do his best to be good but just can't resist eating the enticing man-fruit when he visits the Immortal's garden...

 

54 Womanland...

 

37 An emperor's ghost visits the priest and the priest grants vengeance.

 

47 Monkey rescues village from child eating demon

 

68 Monkey treats a sick emperor... cool chapter on Chinese medicine

 

87 Monkey brings the rain... great chapter on weather magic

 

There are several others that were huge favorites of mine... all the emperors gone evil stories rocked out but I forget which chapter numbers those are. The above chapters should give the reader a good sense of the book and be very fun reading.

[Mal]

Cool cliff notes. There are a few abridged J@W around the place.

 

So I think I left Monkey somewhere in chapter 6 battling portable gaming technology in the form of a PSP with the power of a recently quicken net connection... or something like that

[Marblehead]

Cool cliff notes. There are a few abridged J@W around the place.

 

So I think I left Monkey somewhere in chapter 6 battling portable gaming technology in the form of a PSP with the power of a recently quicken net connection... or something like that

 

Yeah. I finished Ch 6 and was waiting for you. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Taomeow]

I got "Monkey: A Journey to the West, The classic Chinese tale of pilgrimage and adventure retold by David Kherdian"

from my local library a couple of days ago and then noticed you've been reeading a version of same here, by synchronicity's grace. Mine looks like a condensed version some 200 pages long. I'm in the middle. Monkey has just been abused by Laozi, Buddha and Quan Yin, on Jade Emperor's demand. Quan Yin surprised me especially, a boddhisattva of mercy and yet she was going to throw her immaculate vase on Monkey's head from up in heaven as he was busy doing battle with a whole army of gods, and the only reason she didn't was not a fit of boddhisattvy remorse but the fact that Laozi expressed his concern that the vase might break if it hits Monkey's iron cudgel instead of his head.

 

The Jade Emperor surprised me too -- he imprisoned one of his celestial servants Prometheus style (with flying swords rather than the eagle after his liver), not for stealing fire from the gods or any such major transgression, but for accidentally breaking a crystal cup at a banquet. The temper on him! Worse than Zeus! And Laozi -- same deal, burn the monkey in the Eight Trigrams crucible, recover the stolen elixir from his ashes! Some mercy! And Buddha -- well, he tricked Monkey monkey style and punished him with an Om Mani Padme Hum, which I never thought of as a formula for damnation! Absolutely no political correctness either, specie-al slurs all the time, you're just a beast, you're just a monkey, nevermind your cultivation, nevermind your divine origins, once a monkey, always a monkey. Sheesh!

Edited November 1, 2009 by Taomeow

[Mal]

Yes these are hardly gods of temperance... or even examples to aspire too Not painted in a particually good light at all. That jade emperor, stuck up if you ask me. Can' really blame monkey for acting the way he does.

 

Thanks to the TV show I learnt "Om Mani Padme Hum" as a head crushing chant Interestingly I actually used it for many many years as I found it quickly focused my mind, and they say you can't learn anything from TV

 

I must apologize for being slack but my excuse is that D stole back her e book reader.

[Yoda]

 

I just read the part where Kwan Yin loses her willow branch to Lao Zi while gambling... At another point her goldfish goes rogue and starts eating children! Apparently the fish was tired of being a good Buddhist day after day...

 

 

Imo, the Tin dimension is better behaved in reality than is portrayed in J2W.

[Marblehead]

Okay, Okay. I'll get to the next chapter very soon. I promise.

 

Peace & Love!

[Mal]

Well my journey didn't get far, still in my pile of books "to read"

 

But I found this thread which was the catalyst of the whole thing, may as well post it here http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/5312-72-feats-of-the-monkey-king/page__p__59461entry59461

[Marblehead]

Well my journey didn't get far, still in my pile of books "to read"

 

But I found this thread which was the catalyst of the whole thing, may as well post it here http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/5312-72-feats-of-the-monkey-king/page__p__59461entry59461

 

You could tell that I got bored with it, couldn't you?

 

Peace & Love!

[宁]

Liu Yiming, 1734-1821, Taoist master

 

'The book known as Journey to the West is about the universal Way that has been handed on by word to mouth from sage to sage, and verified by each of them. Ch'ang-ch'un, the originator of the Journey to the West cycle, dared to say what the ancients did not dare to say, revealing the celestial mechanism. In Journey to the West is to be found the method of transforming life and death, the way to escape nature.

This is the most extraordinary Taoist book of all time.'

 

 

PS:

 

'Authorship of Journey to the West is still disputed between Wu Cheng-en and Qiu Chu Ji, the founder of the Dragon Gate Sect, a Taoist School.

Many of the poems in the book are taken from Taoist scriptures.'

 

 

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