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Your experience does not contradict my statement. The thing is, there's no such generic thing as "scientists." I also have a master's (so what) and am a descendant of four generations of Ph.D.s, two of which achieved truly great things in (of all things) agricultural sciences whose positive impact lasts till today. (No, not pesticides or genetic modifications, nothing of the sort. Real agricultural science as it used to exist before all that jazz.) You may want to re-read what I wrote with this idea in mind: "scientists" and "science" is a profoundly ephemeral concept. Smoke and mirrors that may hide anyone and anything. That's the generic everyday use (or rather glaringly wrongful misuse) of the term "science," which (as @zerostao pointed out in the statement I was expounding on) is absolutely equal to a belief system. We are trained to believe statements we are told originate from "Science." "Trust the Science" absolutely equals "In God We Trust" -- it's a statement of belief plus a commandment. Real science has nothing to do with statements of belief and commandments. And real scientists... the system is set up to produce very few of those -- and disown, discredit, persecute them if they fail to toe the indoctrinators' line. But enough tangent.

Even if an ant eats a bald eagle, it will never achieve the greatness of a street pigeon

Some resources re: extraordinary vessels https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/renintro.pdf https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/duintro.pdf https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/8-extraordinary-vessels-maciocia-online.pdf https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/the_8-extra_vessels-yuen.pdf Resources to plumb, above. My 'current view' is that I've had a very surface popularized dysfunctional view of du & ren for a very long time. My current view is that the extraordinary vessels flow together, are integral in their dynamic. That there are energetic and consciousness change in dynamics (as energetics shift to the extraordinary vessels) that have very much to do with pre-heaven / post-heaven (prenatal, postnatal).

I think that the there are levels of working with the MCO, and the extraordinary vessels as an integral dynamic. My impression is that we have a surface understanding of “dan tian” and “extraordinary vessels”, that there are layers and we should continue to excavate.

Then this could be the origin of one of the most important and central ides in magic ; expressed from Agrippa ( signatures and correspondences ) all the way through to Crowley's Liber 777 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/777_and_Other_Qabalistic_Writings_of_Aleister_Crowley Great question . There are different systems and reluctance to talk about it , so its difficult to know or even summarize . Mostly its about 'connecting' to the 'home landscape' (one's 'country ' ) and the ancestors . However there is no 'judgement hall' or duality concept ( eg heaven and hell ) . They are definitely afraid of and spooked by ghosts ( the general people ... not 'clever man' or 'Kadaicha ' ) . Its like they want to maintain separation ; a part goes back to nature ... becomes a tree or .... ? But there are also beliefs about becoming stars . I am not sure if they are different beliefs for different people , or the both ideas can be in one system ? I do see what you mean , and that makes some sense ... except for the mourning rites .... IMO such severe mourning* must cause an emotive bond ? In any case , part of that tradition is due to that ( not interrupting the process after death ) but for some it seems to go on a long time ( which may be an aberrant practice introduced later )... it would seem this is only for a period, as later , contact with ancestors ( 'the old people ' ) is desired and in some cases essential and required by Law ( eg, entering a 'sacred area ' , increase site , etc . ) ( Eg . I wanted to 'dance' at Little Lagoon in Western Australia , so I 'asked permission ' - and also permission just to be there .... its a very special spot . before I did anything I sat down on the shore, meditated and asked permission and for a sign it would be okay . Not much happened . But then on the far opposite shore I saw a black figure emerge from the undergrowth and start running around the lagoon shore towards me ... boy could he go fast ! Actually ... thats too fast ! As it closer I realized it was an emu . It came right around and stopped dead in front of me , staring at me . After a while it went into the shallow water and started fishing ! I never seen an emu do that . Then it came back, we were face to face for a bit , then it zoomed off the way it came to the opposite side and back into the bushes . Then an Aboriginal Man ( 'Munda ' people ) came up to me smiling ; ''I see the Old People came to talk to you and check you out .'' - and that enabled contact for me to do a bit of travelling about with one of their elders ) I have seen some terrible 'mourning scars ' and wounds , deliberately inflicted . One man with the top outer part of his thigh , gashed open to the bone and tied around the limb above and below the gash with bark .... just lying there on the ground for days on end . refusing food and drink ... he may well have died of dehydration before the results of the self inflicted wound . yet funeral rites and mourning are said to help guide the spirit . I am assuming there are inner traditions where time periods are relevant .. after a while the spirit should find its new home and after that it can be contacted ... but not during any transition period . # WE need a proof reader .

That's a good observation and ties in with Egyptian thought, I think. I think I read her some years ago - but I can't remember too much. Yes. Gosh, interesting. But is the taboo to protect the process or a real fear of the dead? I mean they may think something is going on, a process which can be damaged by attention and so it become taboo to speak of it - if you see what I mean. Sorry for the terrible typing - I just read through it and realised I skipped a few letters

It is my understanding ( which may not have been the ancients ? ) that a God ... or 'their Gods' are also defining a 'field' ' ie. things that 'relate ' to them ' a particular image , color, animal , energy or force of nature , even perhaps originally an area of the NIle valley ( nome ) . Is there any accuracy in this or is this a later 'hermetic' concept ? 'The Egyptian Enlightenment ' ie maintaining that conscious awareness of this ...... it a buzzzzzzzzz. heave you read Normandy Ellis' transliterations ? Some passages, IMO , she really captures this essence . In some ways , so is that daily x 4 Sun adoration .... the Sunset one is death, obviously , and after that you go to sleep .... but then ( after some practice ) the body has been 'drilled' to wake up and 'resurrect ' oneself for the midnight adoration / meditation. Most 3rd degree initiation rituals and subsequent practices are also 'practice for death' . I have noticed that most of the indigenous groups here do the opposite . people want the ka ( 'spirit ' .... generally , most indigenous do not like to talk openly about this stuff so its vague and general ...or it has adopted or incorporated more modern ideas ) to dissipate . Its a tradition with some never to mention their name or look at an image of a deceased person , they think that will cause them to hang around here and that spooks them . In some ways their mortuary traditions seem the opposite . this comes up all the time on our media ; Thanks for the time and sharing of knowledge you are putting into this

My current view is that the primal motif for core nourishment is the umbilicus, in the prenatal ('pre-heaven') phase when the extraordinary vessels were more predominant. There are remnants of that dynamic currently: 1. a resonant + - polarity can be felt between the front point and corresponding back point ... if done *gently*. You can look at this in terms of ch. medicine, & re: the nerve plexuses that go all the way through front ~ back. 2. this engaged polar resonance effortlessly initiates a pulsing front ~ back which: - nourishes core - engages du, ren, dai, chong etc all in one swoop 3. This is a motif that is repeated, not only at the belly button, but at major acupoints (nerve plexuses) all up & down the center-line. This more n' more efficiently and integrally drives the whole extraordinary vessel foundational nourishment layer. I talk about this line of exploration (last yr 1/2 +) in this public thread and this in my PPD. cheers, Keith

One mistake which many make, including myself at times, in talking about gods is to say for instance Nut goddess of the sky, Ra god of the sun etc. Strictly speaking gods are entities and not one dimensional like this. The way that the Egyptians expressed this is to say for instance that the sky is the Ba (soul) of Nut or that the sun is the Ba of Ra. As the Ba is a luminous entity which prjects forms of itself. You could say that the sky is an expression of Nut. In fact the whole cosmos is in this way seen as being composed of the Bas of the gods. Nothing is dead or unalive, everything that exists is an actve expression of divine power. When the Egyptian built sacred spaces, a tomb, a temple or even a coffin, the ceiling is the sky, the floor the earth and the walls are the pillars of the air god Shu which hold the sky from the earth. S on our stele the body of Nut stretched overhead is exactly this idea, that a sacred space is formed which reflects the very structure of the cosmos. A microcosm reflecting the macrocosm. So what is taking place? The funerary rites were said to be good to be done on earth (i.e. when alive). So in many ways the daily practice is a death rehearsal. This is because on death the various constituent parts of being which make up a person are separated and become in a way clearer and more visible. There are five main constituent entities which are important. The body (heart), the ka, the ba, the shadow and the akh. The Egyptians had other possible entities like Ren, the name' but they are not so important here. On death the body ceases to function. In mummification four main organs were removed and preserved in jars and the rest of the body was treated so it would not decompose. The main organs were associated with the sons of Horus, the four cardinal points and four protecting goddesses arranged in a pattern like a mandala. The mummy became a kind of anchor for the post mortem process. Closely associated with the body, the Ka (often called the double) would remain close by the body. For the Ka not to run down and dissipate offering were made and spells repeated. This was done by priests called hemka (literally Ka servants). At the same time as the energy of the Ka was being preserved, the body is being identified with the undying primeval god which is either Atum or Osiris. This means two things were happening concurrently. The Ka-energy which is ultimately solar is being 'boosted' by offerings and the attention of the ka priest ; and the substance of the person was being merged with the primeval substance of Nu in the form of Atum or Osiris. The heart of the person is then weighed - which we have already discussed. Then the Ba is released and travels to the East (from out of the West) together with the Shadow. They see the sunrise and have a non-dual experience seeing their identity with the sun. Then they return and reunite with the heart and the ka. The most important part of this being the union of the Ba with the Ka. This if done successfully gives birth to the Akh which is then free to come and go as it pleases. Obviously there is a lot of detail missed out in this quick summary but this is the essence.

Likewise, I hold respect for you. And find value in your post If my posture, breathing, circulation, immune system, nervous system, and calmness, have benefitted from hallucinations, that is still winning.

Gautama taught four initial concentrations, and I would say the fourth has a freedom of movement of consciousness in the body. From Just to Sit on my website: The suffusion of the body with “purity by the pureness of mind” in the fourth concentration can allow the thoracolumbar fascial sheet to sustain an openness of nerve exits along the sacrum and spine. Such an openness is accompanied by an ability to feel throughout the body to the surface of the skin. That’s reflected in Gautama’s metaphor for the fourth concentration: … it is as if (a person) might be sitting down who had clothed (themselves) including (their) head with a white cloth; there would be no part of (their) whole body that was not covered by the white cloth. (MN 119, © Pali Text Society vol. III p 134 ) There is a relationship between the ease of nerve exits from the sacrum and spine and feeling on the surface of the skin. Here is a chart from the early 1900’s of the specifics of that relationship on the front of the body: The free placement of attention in the movement of breath depends on an ability to feel throughout the body to the surface of the skin. As I wrote previously: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention draws out thoughts initial and sustained, and brings on the stages of concentration. (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) The first four concentrations were said to be marked by equanimity with respect to the multiplicity of the senses. The four further concentrations were marked by equanimity with respect to the uniformity of the senses, and the first three were induced by the minds of compassion, of sympathetic joy, and of equanimity "without limit". From my The Inconceivable Nature of the Wind: [One] dwells, having suffused the first quarter [of the world] with friendliness, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth; just so above, below, across; [one] dwells having suffused the whole world everywhere, in every way, with a mind of friendliness that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence. [One] dwells having suffused the first quarter with a mind of compassion… with a mind of sympathetic joy… with a mind of equanimity that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence. (MN 7, tr. Pali Text Society vol I p 48 ) Gautama said that “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of the mind of compassion was the first of the further concentrations, a concentration he called “the plane of infinite ether” (MN 7, tr. Pali Text Society vol I p 48 ). The Oxford English Dictionary offers some quotes about “ether” (Oxford English Dictionary, s.v. “ether (n.),” March 2024, https://doi.org/10.1093/OED/1514129048 ): They [sc. the Brahmins] thought the stars moved, and the planets they called fishes, because they moved in the ether, as fishes do in water. (Vince, Complete System. Astronomy vol. II. 253 [1799]) Plato considered that the stars, chiefly formed of fire, move through the ether, a particularly pure form of air. (Popular Astronomy vol. 24 364 [1916]) When the free location of consciousness is accompanied by an extension of the mind of compassion, there can be a feeling that the necessity of breath is connected to things that lie outside the boundaries of the senses. That, to me, is an experience of “the plane of infinite ether”. I'm thinking this is all connected with the freedom of the akh in Egyptian mythology.

A new research paper comes out. Pretty soon after we have chatgpt with millions of users. And you are saying science is in decline. What is the logic behind that? I see denial of things happening. Science is actually moving forward while you are saying it is decline.

I was wondering if old3bob was being serious ? maybe that silly title image was the only AI blunder and the rest was real footage ? ( that happens a lot ... sometimes the first title image isnt even in the following footage) . Plus I have a morbid curiosity Once I started watching .... it was so ridiculous .... I had to watch more Not only that , whoever puts these out* has a whole series of them and not only that people take them seriously and have complained about the treatment the 'animals' got so now their 'educational films ' come with a notice that 'no animals were harmed ' * Who the hell is 'sea grace' ? Now ... let's help this poor giant crab ... ( who can also change size from the ridiculously large to normal size ( something about the ' ' rescue team ' reminds me of 'Thunderbirds' ; - I'm gonna get me a job on one of those 'rescue boats '

It was your personal opinionated translation.

Chicken is the most glorious of birds The most wise of all sages does not even spend his time in this thread Old man sacrifices eyesight for a healthy prostate

It may be worthwhile if doing once. You can compare with what the healers do. They spent a lot of Chi in healing. Then they take quite some time to recover. Even magicians have the same problem. Without the limitation, we could have seen hundreds of healers working side by side, 9 to 9 like factory workers.

Migration?

Old man shouldn't feel his end, he will go blind.

Sorry to hear about your loss, Steve. Take care...

Mod note: ants vs birds moved here:

This sounds like something from Zhuangzi. With this statement you have achieved greatness. Maybe not eternal -- but you did produced a great moment for me.

Some 20 years after reading his autobiography I've met in person Meir Schneider and can tell you that he his legit, a man that healed himself of almost total blindness through exercises based on the Bates method. https://youtu.be/JWdCGX6HzjE?si=2zMiAanqlsv3gcAI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblem_of_the_West

White ant only marry high level cultivator

A phone can detect radiation in its operating spectrum which may include 900Mhz, 1800Mhz, 2600Mhz, 3500Mhz. Perhaps some phones can detect other frequencies. The Cornet model I have detects up to 8Mhz, plus gauss and volts/meter Detection of magnetic/gauss fields is useful, but protection is very difficult There is also dirty electricity (micro-surges) that generate their own EMR. I use motor run capacitors to smooth the effect of solar panel inverters. Micro-surge meters are available

It is not uncommon to exhibit some "special abilities" to attract students, even though they are not really useful. If you are going to teach, are you going to tell your prospective students that they would be imprisoned in a dark cell 12 hours a day, eating tasteless little bit of food, being pulled, twisted, bent; sitting on invisible chair, discomfort and pain magnified; prostrate to higher authority, chanting submission during the remainder of the waking time. There are many prisons in different countries offer these for free. There have to be some "incentives".

Really? I think all their minds are about mating and pregnancy.

Sorry to hear of your father's illness and passing, Steve. Take care of yourself!

A few takeaways from a partial listen of the video: - 2 hours a day is enough for three systems? I think 2 hours was bare minimum just for Damo, and not even doing all the stuff - no mention of developing morality, compassion, wisdom, spiritual qualities, etc. It's all about cool powers - no ethics required, like running - masters won't let him test them with proper equipment - "extraordinarily clear" evidence for extraterrestrials visiting us

I use turmeric almost daily as my spice of choice for breakfast and I like it. Contrary to the claims it is anti-inflammatory, I've noticed that some of its component tends to accumulate in the body and cause some inflammation specific to turmeric consumption. But everybody is different, so it very likely will be different for you. Your inflammation that you experience could be a reaction to some food. With age, people develop allergies to the foods they had eaten for their whole life without any problems. Unfortunately.

As far as I know the horizontal patterns are decorative or possibly to show the top and bottom of a wall. The verticals lines below the semi circle are just part of the glyph of the West ( a bird perch).

Which leads us all back to the main picture: Ankh-n-f-khonsu stands before an offering table which contains meat, fowl, fish and bread. He is wearing a leopard skin, which marks him out as a Sem priest. The Sem priests go back thousands of years to the Old Kingdom and probably before, descended from the earliest shaman/magicians, the role developed into one skilled in the funerary cult. Particularly in the 'opening the mouth' in which mummies and statues were ritually brought to life using a magical adze (a wood working tool). The opening of the mouth had a mudra of the closed fist with the little finger extended. This is drawn from midwifery, where the birthing nurse would insert her little finger into the babies mouth to remove mucous and allow it to breathe and feed. In the same way the statues and mummies had their mouths opened so that their Kas could receive sustenance from the offering. There are two related ideas to offerings. One is the Eye of Horus which is the ultimate offering, Horus offers his eye to his father Osiris and Thoth offers the healed eye after it become injured either to Horus or the Sun God. So in this sense the Eye is the type of all offerings. Also the word 'hotep' which means peace, contentment, fulfilment or satisfaction is represented by a mat with a loaf of bread on it as an offering. Hotep is found in names like Ptah-hotep etc. and is a key Egyptian concept. So in making offerings and receiving them what arises is perfect contentment. The deity that he offering to, sat upon a throne, is Ra-Horakhty, a syncretic god. He is shown with a falcon's head and solar disk as a crown, holding a 'was' sceptre representing power. This deity is formed from merging two gods. Ra as the sun, or the power behind the sun and Horus the ancient sky god who is associated with awareness and keen sight. The 'akhety' part of the name means between the two horizons (of East and West). The two horizons represents the extent of the known cosmos, the East is where things come into being and West where they die. So this could be understood as placed Ra-Horus over all that is between birth and death rather like the alpha and omega of the Bible. So this god, which is Ankh-f-n-khonshu's highest value, is energy/awarness over all that is. Behind the god if the symbol of the West ... a bird perch with a falcon on it and a feather of ma'at. Above them stretches Nut the sky goddess and over their heads is the winged disk of Horus Bedhety (which Crowley calls Hadit). So how are we to interpret all this ....

Ha ! I just posted this elsewhere ;

Sorry to hear about your loss. My condolences.

I am late to the dance, too, at 75. In Gautama’s teaching, the extension of “purity by the pureness of mind” belonged to the last of four concentrations. The initial concentration is induced, said Gautama, by “making self-surrender the object of thought”: … the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness. (The disciple), aloof from sensuality, aloof from evil conditions, enters on the first trance, which is accompanied by thought initial and sustained, which is born of solitude, easeful and zestful, and abides therein. (SN 48.10, tr. PTS vol V p 174; parentheticals paraphrase original; "initial" for "directed") In my experience, “one-pointedness” occurs when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a singular location in the body, and a person “lays hold of one-pointedness” when they remain awake as the singular location shifts. Gautama described the “first trance” as having feelings of zest and ease, and he prescribed the extension of those feelings: … (a person) steeps, drenches, fills, and suffuses this body with zest and ease, born of solitude, so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this lone-born zest and ease. (AN 5.28, tr. PTS vol. III pp 18-19, parentheticals paraphrase original) Words like “steeps” and “drenches” convey that the weight of the body accompanies the feelings of zest and ease. The weight of the body sensed at a particular point in the body can shift the body’s center of gravity, and a shift in the body’s center of gravity can result in what Moshe Feldenkrais termed “reflex movement”. Feldenkrais described how “reflex movement” can be engaged in standing up from a chair: …When the center of gravity has really moved forward over the feet a reflex movement will originate in the old nervous system and straighten the legs; this automatic movement will not be felt as an effort at all. (“Awareness Through Movement”, Moshe Feldenkrais, p 78) “Drenching” the body “so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded” with zest and ease allows the weight of the body to effect “reflex movement” in the activity of the body, wherever “one-pointedness” takes place. In falling asleep, the mind can sometimes react to hypnagogic sleep paralysis with an attempt to reassert control over the muscles of the body, causing a “hypnic jerk”. The extension of a weighted zest and ease can pre-empt the tendency to reassert voluntary control in the induction of concentration, and make possible a conscious experience of “reflex movement” in inhalation and exhalation. Gautama offered a metaphor for the first concentration that emphasized the cultivation of one-pointedness. Here’s the full description: … just as a handy bathman or attendant might strew bath-powder in some copper basin and, gradually sprinkling water, knead it together so that the bath-ball gathered up the moisture, became enveloped in moisture and saturated both in and out, but did not ooze moisture; even so, (a person) steeps, drenches, fills, and suffuses this body with zest and ease, born of solitude, so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this lone-born zest and ease. (AN 5.28, tr. PTS vol. III pp 18-19, parentheticals paraphrase original) The juxtaposition of a singular bath-ball with the extension of zest and ease such that “there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded” might seem dissonant, yet in my experience the two can be realized together, and at least initially neither can be sustained alone. (Just to Sit) Shunryu Suzuki said, "in shikantaza, our mind should pervade every parts of our physical being." Gautama said, "… seated, (one) suffuses (one’s) body with purity by the pureness of (one’s) mind so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded with purity by the pureness of (one’s) mind." The difference between "every parts of our physical being" and "not one particle of the body that is not pervaded" is the difference between "all over the body" and "throughout the body": Yun Yen asked Tao Wu, “What does the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion use so many hands and eyes for?” Wu said, “It’s like somebody reaching back groping for a pillow in the middle of the night.” Yen said, “I understand.” Wu said, “How do you understand it?” Yen said, “All over the body are hands and eyes.” Wu said, “You have said quite a bit there, but you’ve only said eighty percent of it.” Yen said, “What do you say, Elder Brother?” Wu said, “Throughout the body are hands and eyes.” (“The Blue Cliff Record”, Yuanwu, tr. Cleary & Cleary, Shambala p. 489)

Latest interview by Rudi:

Just make sure it is the right kind of spirit

@steve Hope you deal well with the temporary absence of your father's presence

The second part of the reverse text is a quote from Spell 2 Book of the Dead. O (you who are) Unique [C7], who shines like the moon, the Osiris, Ankh-ef- [C8] en-Khonsu, goes forth from your multitudes, [C9] (O) deliverer of those who are within the sun-light, open for him [C10] the Netherworld, indeed, the Osiris, Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu who goes forth in [C11] day in order to do everything all that pleased him upon earth among the living-ones. In the Book of the Dead this Spell has the heading " Spell for going out into the day and living after death". The real name of the Book of the Dead is the book of 'Going forth by Day and living after death' - and the end of this Spell indicates the goal of 'goes forth by day in order to do everything that pleases him upon earth among the living ones' i.e. resurrection as an akh (a fully equipped spirit that can come and go as it pleases). It starts by addressing the unique or only one who shines like the moon. It doesn't say who this is, it could be Thoth but more likely as it then refers to his 'multitudes' to be Osiris Lord of the Underworld. This would make sense in terms of the desire to be released from the underworld. Those in the sunlight is probably the blessed (justified) dead. Those who pass the weighing of the heart were thought to reside in the Field of Reeds (Elysian Fields) and be constantly bathed in the sun's light. This is a kind of intermediary state of bliss (which is clearly not enough for Ankh-f-n-Khonsu who seeks full liberation). So he asks for the Netherworld (Dwat) to be fully open to him so he can come and go as he pleases. The goal is here framed not as bliss or wisdom or even survival but perfect freedom. He can do anything he chooses and come and go as he pleases.

The goal of guided meditations is to get you to think, ‘who the f*ck are you to tell me what to do.’.

Reverse side - first part. (O) my heart of my mother [2 times], (O) my heart while I existed [C3] upon earth, do not stand against me as a witness, do not oppose me in [C4] in the tribunal, do not be hostile against me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West. [C5] Although I have united (myself) to the land (i.e. died) to the great western side of Heaven, may I flourish upon earth!" Some slight elements of mistranslation here but not too bad, I think. It starts by saying 'My heart, my mother' twice for emphasis. It is not saying 'heart of my mother' which makes no sense anyway - why would he have his mother's heart? Gross! He is addressing his heart as his 'mother'. So why? The heart, (ab), is the psycho-spiritual centre of a person. It is their mind, their volition and character. The heart is seen as issuing commands to the rest of the body, the limbs to move, the tongue to speak and so on. So while we moderns think of the brain as the centre of function for the Egyptians it was the heart. So in this sense it is volition. It is our mother because it makes us who we are. It determines our character, our likes and dislikes, things we hold dear, things we hate and so on. This makes sense really because we are gestated and born from our mothers, we rely on them to give us our physical body and even more than this it is recognised that when we are born, our pristine sterile foetus is covered in the birth canal with all the micro-organisms, gut bacteria and so on which we need to survive. Also in our childhood it is our mother who protects, guides and embraces us in our early years. So there is a lot to us beyond our conscious mind. A whole load of inherited 'stuff'. Then it says 'my heart when I existed on earth' i.e. in the land of the living. Here the word for heart is not 'ab' but 'h3ty' which means literally 'that which is in front (of our chests)' i.e. the physical heart. So the ab heart was our physical heart in life but lives on as a spiritual entity after death. In some versions of this Spell it says 'my heart through all my kheperu' i.e. through all my phases of being, or stages of life. Which indicates that it is the heart/mind which gives us continuity through life (or even lives?). Then the text goes on to talk about the famous Judgement Scene where the heart is weighed against the feather of ma'at. And it asks the heart not to speak against him at this time before the tribunal (or the 42 assessors who act as judges). So if the ab-heart is your mind (in effect) why would it speak against you? For speaking against you leads to the dreaded 'second death' of final extinction. This seems odd doesn't it? The only answer as far as I can see, is that the heart/mind was understood to include all the subconscious mood, feelings, memories, thoughts and so on which we have. All the baggage which we carry with us. As we live we hope that we have done good things but to be honest the picture is mixed isn't it. We have a conscience with which we need to be reconciled. There was a close association between the heart and the tongue. The heart was said to think about what to do and then issue instructions through the tongue. So the voice, what is spoken reflects what is in the heart. This is why those that get through the judgement are called 'true of voice' which is usually translated as justified. Although I have united (myself) to the land (i.e. died) to the great western side of Heaven, may I flourish upon earth! Or better 'United with the ground and under the great Western sky, I flourish on earth.' This is the aspiration to live after death. Both united with the ground and the West are images of being dead.

Daobums has become my fav site again . ( Just after we were told 'it is over ' )

This question is quite unanswerable. Whether 2 systems are compatible can only be answered by the teachers of the 2 systems. But seldom does a teacher happen to know another system in depth. In the old days when the very original system has been taught, undiluted and unadulterated for centuries. Then another teacher may have sufficient knowledge on that system. But these days many system are recent inventions, or significantly altered, then outsiders would have no idea on what is going on.

So .... anyway ... the next interesting part of the text is this: "make the path of the Ba, the Akh, and the Shadow, for I am equipped so that (I) might shine therein [B4] (as) an equipped-one. Make for me the path to the place in which Re, Atum, Khepri,[11] and Hathor are therein." We've already talked about the Ba and the akh. But here they include the Shadow (shwty). When the Ba goes to the East it is accompanied by the Shadow. Although the Shadow cannot fly as the Ba does. Usually the Shadow is shown as a black silhouette in the shape of the person. So it is an entity which has form but no substance. In a way it is the reflex of the ba which is luminous, an entity of pure form, an entity of air and not light/fire. Then the text talks about four gods. Here these gods represent four cycles or stages which are outlines in the Book of the Dead. 1. The path of Re (Ra) is a path of seeing - of seeing the sunrise and realising one's identity with the sun. 2. The path of Atum where you absorb the qualities of the sun into yourself back to the primordial substance of your being. 3. The path of Khepri where you perform transformations to universalize your understanding 4. The path of Hathor where you reside in perfect joy/bliss of 'unity'.

We can see from the given text that the priest addresses the god he is offering to as follows: "O Exalted-one! may he be praised, Great of Manifestations, the great Ba whom [B3] the gods fear ..." The word for manifestations is baw i.e. three ba birds ... and also the god is addressed as the great Ba. So we can see from the text without the need for any further elaboration that the 'ba' is related to the power to manifest and also that gods can be addressed as ba (interchangably with the usual word for god which is neter or netcher). So while the word ba is usually translated as 'soul' (which is itself a rather vague word these days) it might be better to translate it as 'divine power which can manifest'. Each person was said to have their own ba, usually shown as a human headed bird. This was one of the most important entities which together with others made a human being. As the Egyptians did not see a person as one thing but rather several entities interacting (that is until the person became 'one' in forming the akh spirit.) After death the ba of the deceased was said to fly to the East to view the sunrise. The ba unlike th eka was not bound t the body or dependent on offerings for sustenance. Spell 17 of the Book of the Dead describes what is said on viewing the sunrise (which as seen as a recapitulation of the the original creation of the cosmos in the first time. Here is a quote of the beginning of Chapter 17: Words spoken by the Osiris N: I am Ra in his rising, first in ruling what he made. What does it mean? It means Ra in his rising when first ruling what he made, It means the first rising of Ra in Henennesut, when there was the creation of the supports of Nun when he was on the high ground which is in Khemenu, when the children of the rebel were destroyed for him on the high ground which is in Khemenu. The Osiris N means the deceased ... or specifically his ba. And in the first line it is saying 'I am Ra ...' - where Ra is the sun-god creator. So the ba is saying 'I am Ra...' affirming his non-dual relation with the solar energy. Thus his innate divine nature. So for a definition of ba we can say 'a luminous divine power which creates forms from itself'. It is the divine spark if you like within us all. Our nature as spirit. A luminous energy which projects images.

- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, Vajra Heart Revisited

The picture shows at the top the body of the sky goddess Nut which forms an arc over the whole scene. Below this Bedhety (a form of Horus as the winged disk) who is called Lord of the Sky. Ankh-f-n-Khonshu dressed as a Sem priest making offerings to the seated god Ra-Horakhty, behind whom is the symbol for the West. Between the the offering table containing bread, beer, meat and fowl. Below this is the main text. The main text is a version fo Spell 91 from the Book of the Dead. [B1–B5] Main text: [B1] Words spoken by the Osiris (i.e., the deceased), God's Servant of Montu, Lord of Waset, Opener of the Door-leaves of Heaven in the Most Select of Places (i.e., Karnak), Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, [B2] True of Voice: "O Exalted-one! may he be praised, Great of Manifestations, the great Ba whom [B3] the gods fear, and who appears on his great throne, make the path of the Ba, the Akh, and the Shadow, for I am equipped so that (I) might shine therein [B4] (as) an equipped-one. Make for me the path to the place in which Re, Atum, Khepri,[11] and Hathor are therein." The Osiris, God's Servant of Montu, Lord of Waset, [B5] Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, <True of> Voice, son of the like titled Ba-sa-en-Mut, borne of the Chantress of Amun-Re, Lady of the House, Ta-nesh<et>.[12] On the back is a version of Spell 30b from the Book of the Dead: [C1] Words spoken by the Osiris (i.e., the deceased), God's Servant of Montu, Lord of Waset, Ankh-ef-en- [C2] Khonsu, True of Voice: "(O) my heart of my mother [2 times], (O) my heart while I existed [C3] upon earth, do not stand against me as a witness, do not oppose me in [C4] in the tribunal, do not be hostile against me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West. [C5] Although I have united (myself) to the land (i.e. died) to the great western side of Heaven, may I flourish upon earth!" [C6] Words spoken by the Osiris, the Stolist[13] of Waset, Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, True of Voice: O (you who are) Unique [C7], who shines like the moon, the Osiris, Ankh-ef- [C8] en-Khonsu, goes forth from your multitudes, [C9] (O) deliverer of those who are within the sun-light, open for him [C10] the Netherworld, indeed, the Osiris, Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu who goes forth in [C11] day in order to do everything all that pleased him upon earth among the living-ones."

Haven't been around for awhile. I thought this might be worth a look. The author hadn't been explored the last time I was here.

Thank you all very much, my father has been very ill and passed early this morning. I value all of your good wishes and friendship.