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also, meditation does not have to be sitting still. stillness can be cultivated in other ways. for instance walking in nature. or deeply absorbed in creative process. daydreaming. listening.

Generally speaking meditation is very badly taught. No one should spend any time worrying about thoughts and certainly not trying to stop them. You should focus on body in the first place - just settling and easing until it rests with a certain presence. There’s more of course but a bit difficult to do it justice typing on my phone.

I agree. 信 心 銘 (xin4 xin1 ming2) precious words from the heart I agree the five aggregates are not the ‘self’ definitely That’s what I notice with the DDJ too. Imo the DDJ is simple and down-to-earth, good advice for living life. But people seem to only be interested in the most bizarre and obscure translations, where they can make anything of it (e.g. that it’s a code for top secret esoteric practices).

Whatever practice you are doing, cherishing, holding out as THE way in... isn't. What you are looking isn't the words, or the movements, the visualizations, the breath... any "thing". What you are looking for is what is in between all of those "things". What you are seeking requires no "work" or "doing". I requires learning to stop doing.

Hi everyone, I've visited this forum as a guest for a few years. I have a background in a mish-mash of techniques that I've picked up over time. My main focus is consolidating my practice, implementing a clear direction and practising daily. My interests are all over the place, I've studied various western occult paradigms, tarot, other esoteric practices, and quite frankly a bunch of crazy sh*t that I've ceased as I see no benefit in it. I have a lot to learn, I feel a little bit behind and overwhelmed with all the information and various schools/lineages/terminology. I suspect I have a fair bit to unlearn as well. For the past few years I have been practicing various techniques from Roni Edlund's Daoist Neigong for Women, which I've had success with. I've read and used many of the WLP techs outlined in Nathan Brine's books as well. I'm a little frustrated at the lack of information that is female centric, which as a woman, is my main focus. Most recently I have been introduced to Trika Shaivism, which has affected me so profoundly any words I try to type to convey this feeling seem shallow or trite. I'm open to discussion, questions and learning about myself and those around me. Thank you for reading this introduction. Best regards Lala

I do have some superficial knowledge of marketing, markets and its history, so would like to participate. But before I do so, I wonder if you could provide me with the definition of magic you are useing in this context 🙏

there is a Latin phrase "creation ex nihilo" which translates to "creation from nothing." In Hebrew it is yesh m'ayin "something from nothing." The creation of every "thing" (all the objects, all the things, the universe and everything in it) comes from a Source that is itself not a "thing." Source has no form, no shape, it does not take up any space, it is not bound by time or space or form, it has no beginning and no end, it always was and always will be. Source (which is not a thing, it is a no-thing) creates, or is back of, or gives rise to everything (all the things, the Universe and everything in it). So there is a difference between "nothing" which indicates an utter absence. and the no-thing that is Source. which is very much a powerful presence

Read this thread paying careful attention to your embodied experience: how do the various posts make you feel? I think you´ll find the answer to your question.

Well, you have mine

Would like this twice if I could.

reposting again to get approved since last post from a few days ago still not approved Greetings fellow humans, I'm brand new to Qigong (Flying Phoenix) and have some experience with Reiki (Usui Reiki Ryoho). I just finished reading the entirety of the of the Flying Phoenix Chi Kung forum over the past week; it was like a book I couldn't put down I hope I can be of some help on here! Thank you for having me, John

I agree, the DDJ is a prime example of just how simple transformation can be. I am surprised by how many have managed to complicate it, add different cultivations and aspirations to such a clean and simple document. You know when you encounter the real deal when even different translations cannot damage the stainless quality of the dharma contained within. _/\_

Bear in mind that research studies have documented that AI is incorrect 60% of the time. Depending on which AI platform is used, they range in error from 30% to 90% of the time. So that is like using a tutor with grades of D or F. So be aware that AI (a) is incorrect 60% of the time, and (b) can't distinguish between correct information and incorrect information; and (c) performance over time actually DECREASES, it gets worse; and (d) it fabricates information. it makes up fake stuff including people, events, and URLs. Given that, AI is not a credible source, and it is not a reliable source, then it baffles me that it is used at all. For me, if i see information presented in post that indicates AI as a source, then i dismiss it out of hand as not reliable, not accurate, not credible, and 60% incorrect or fabricated. source article 2025 "AI search engines cite incorrect news sources at an alarming 60% rate" article 2023, University of Maryland Research Guide, "What does AI Get Wrong" article 2023, Scientific American, "Yes AI Models Can Get Worse Over Time" AI is "just mimicking reasoning, rather than actually performing that reasoning.” In March an AI tool correctly identified prime numbers from a list 96.7% of the time. Three months later in June of the same year, the same AI platform, the same task, the same list, but only 2.7% were correctly identified. AI is simply not reliable. Oh, and the paid versions of the eight AI platforms tested, had higher error rate than the free versions.

Hi John. Welcome to the forum. @-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

It's actually very simple. Perhaps the clearest instruction I have ever read is the Tsin Tsin Ming: https://terebess.hu/english/hsin.html#3 The short version: Dismantle your belief in your "self" as a separate being that exists in time and space. If you stop feeding the delusion of "self" you can glimpse the underlying reality. How do you stop feeding your delusion? Seek stillness. Meditation, where the mind is still and quiet, is the simplest place to start. Having the stillness pointed out for you is sometimes expedient. It requires no money, beliefs, or reading, really. You probably won't bother. Almost no-one does. It isn't complicated or sexy enough for most.

playing a hurdy gurdy might do it, or singing along with Donovan...

That’s honestly amazing. For many years thoughts, images, voices and words have appeared in my mind. It took me a decade to identify the primary voice. It turned out he was my father in Atlantis - amongst other roles. These days I am more conscious and circumspect in dealing with incoming. And my Atlantean father has more important duties than looking after me.

There may be faster techniques than the Revision method A few days ago a friend phoned and commented that as a child she felt unloved. So I had her go back on this timeline to age 5, where she saw the unhappy child. She gave the child some heart light and immediately we could see it cheered up. At the same time I noticed the adult had cheered up. She agreed. Time taken - perhaps 3 minutes

me too. And seems Laozi too, DDJ ch. 70: [start ch 70 MWD B (DIO)] 吾 言 易 知 也 wú yán yì zhī yě - We say: change awareness, 易 行 也 yì xíng yě - change behaviour. 而 天 下 ér tiān xià - But in our society 莫 之 能 知 也 mò zhī néng zhī yě - it’s not possible to be aware, and 莫 之 能 行 也 mò zhī néng xíng yě - it’s not possible to be alright. [end ch 70 MWD B (DIO)] 是 以 圣(聖) 人 shì yǐ shèng rén - Therefore a ‘wise and moral’ person 被 褐 bèi hè - meets with the darkness 而 怀(懷) 玉 ér huái yù - and yet has a pure mind.

Ermmmm ... obscure but .... okay then ;

One of the practices I am allowed to know about ( as its a woman's tradition , men's and women's 'business' - secret indigenous teaching - are supposed to be kept secret and apart here ) with my woman friend , who is a Gurudjigen (medicinal plant knowledge gatherer, preparer , prescriber, etc - 'medicine woman ' ) involves at least an hour a day in the morning 'sitting' . Especially before going out gathering . Another thing with 'stillness' ... nature or even 'the natural clock' seems to practice it . A few times at home , when someone is present I will ; " Stop for a moment ... do you hear and feel that ?" "What ?" " Nothing ! .... at this moment , no sound .... no wind , no human noises intruding , no birds , the insects have stopped making a noise ........... ........ then it starts up again . And the plants respond as well , during the still time the stomata in plants closes , and opens when the noise starts up again .

Qigong is largely a means of health maintenance. In many ways, going to the gym is probably better for that if you have time. It is possible to practice alchemy, but it's very labour intensive getting to that point. And people at the furthest point along the path tend to talk about jhana as the ultimate achievement. Honestly I feel like meditation is the best use of my time, if I only have two hours free every day. Edit - I am quite keen though on exploring the relationship between qigong and the clarity and stability of the mind during meditation. Lots of Buddhist teachers are incorporating qigong into their teachings now because of its supportive effect in this regard. In addition, sitting for long periods can sometimes make the body (and the mind) somewhat sluggish. Qigong seems to counteract that.

I'm not sure tbh. Better to ask a teacher. John Dolic says no meditation at all. Others like Lisa O'Shea and a guy in Germany I emailed said meditation is fine, so long as it doesn't involve visualisation. Instructions are quite vague.

I know I have said many crazy things in the forum, but I have an important message I want to share with everybody. At the beginning of the year I was sick. I had heart problems, sometimes the palpitations were so big I thought I was going to die, no joke here. I couldn't even sleep well because at night the palpitations were more severe. I also felt very clearly that I had a big problem with my heart, I could feel it clearly. Also I had a little bit of pain in the left part of my chest almost all the time, and of course I didn't have any energy at all. As a last resort I tried fragrant qi gong again. I practiced fragrant for 7 months between 2018 and 2019. It worked well on me but I quitted it because I wanted to practice other things. But with this problem I knew very well that only fragrant could help me, so I started doing it again, and in a few weeks almost all my problems have disappeared. It has healed me perfectly well, now I have energy again, I don't feel pain in my heart and I am happy again. I also feel that the more I practice the better I will feel. Psychologically it has not been easy to manage all this. I thought I could die at any moment for weeks, so the merit of this fragrant qi gong is huge. Now I will dedicate my life to this qi gong, I will do it every day and I will teach it to others, so they can benefit as much as I have. I write this because I want everybody to know the powerful benefits of this style of qi gong. Pd: I think my health problems were caused by psychological disturbances. I had a bad time because my mother almost died at the beginning of the year, she was very ill for weeks. Now she is better. Apart from doing fragrant qi gong, I am beginning to change my mental attitude. I try to be more positive, suggesting myself with positive thinking. I am reading a book on the subject, recommended by a friend of mine: You are the placebo, from Joe Dispenza, a very recommendable book which focus on the importance of the mind on health, and how negative and positive thinking and emotions affect our physical health. I now realize that my internal cultivation these last years was focusing too much on the body, neglecting the mind.

Tell 'em to stop, stirling--make 'em stop! The Master said to me: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you–begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain to it. They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas. ("The Zen Teaching of Huang Po On the Transmission of Mind", tr. John Blofeld, Part One)

I like your 'bookish learning ' - its helpful However it does distract from our bizarre and obscure understandings - where we can make whatever we want out of it .

What new faculties appear in the stillness? Is there a trans-human level that can work when the humanness is still? Is there a hint in the Tree of Life fitting so nicely on the human format?

Thank you. Nothingness is kind of a tricky concept for me, as... nothing is... nothing. I once heard some fellow say nothing = everything. I didnt understand it, nor do I belive it is very relevant. But I wonder, could nothingness in the DDJ school be compared to the western concept of aether or the vedic akasha? As always, I have no clue what I am talking about, but maybe someone better versed in these traditions can clarify. Intruiging post @illuminated_luke, but in order to reread with carefull attention, ill have to do as you do with the garage: do it tommorow.

In the DDJ, ‘nothingness’ is the empty womb. Sinologist Ellen M. Chen, “the Nothingness of Dao is the emptiness of the female womb.” (page 93, ‘In Praise of Nothing’, An exploration of Daoist Fundamental Ontology)

No, it is not. For a whole lot of people it is the hardest. And it is certainly not a requirement. ever.

The goal is really to bring stillness to ALL activities. It is easiest to start with sitting meditation, but a simple walking meditation would be next, or try chopping vegetables or hand washing dishes. Driving and walking in nature are also easy places to start. I have many of my student set a timer for every waking hour to remind them to stop and reestablish stillness for a few minutes. This eventually makes you start noticing that stillness establishes itself sometimes, which makes sense since it is always underneath the thinking mind.

I appreciate the concern, and I agree that those things are not helpful, but I did not at any point feel stirling was doing so

@Apech Hey, no worries. Thank you for the approval!

Won't bother with simply resting the Dao/Nature of Mind/Emptiness/Brahman. Won't bother with dropping practices and just allowing the mind to become still and seeing how things are from that perspective. Why would it? Why would the thinking mind feel like turning itself off for a while might be a valid way forward? It is convinced that it is a "self" and that the thought process is how problems are solved. How could just being possibly be the key? Surely it is more of an intellectual pursuit? Of course it depends on what you think you want to achieve. What I am pointing at is the cessation of the struggle/suffering of the "self" and complete alignment with the Dao, OR enlightenment, from the Buddhist/Hindu/Sufi/Advaita Vedanta perspective. What DO you want to achieve? A lot of thinking there. I get it, I really do, but none of that happens in the way you imagine it. You are speculating, finding reason why it wouldn't suit you. It doesn't have to. It comes back to that question again - what do you want to achieve? I find most of those that get anywhere are seeking to either end their suffering OR understand how reality really is. Depends, again on what you want to accomplish. If you meditation is just resting in stillness, and you get what it is you are trying to do, experience will lead you to resting for periods of time in what IS "enlightened mind". From there it is simply learning to recognize it. All of those other pursuits are also valuable, though I would add that seeking insight into your attachment and aversion is key.... and another place where meditation is invaluable. The thinking mind does not want to meditate, as I imagine you have noticed. It takes a few weeks to a month of practice to get to the point where the thinking mind is exhausted and stillness really begins to appear. 20 minutes a day will do it. How long ever day do we look at the internet? YOU can't turn off the chatter, no. You CAN allow the mind to exhaust itself and become still by not feeding it. Anyone that cares can do it. Every student I have ever had finds they can... if they WANT to. Not at all. I appreciate your willingness to engage and question. As far as "correction" is concerned, practice is the thing that creates insight into these things. As I said, most won't even take a month or two of sitting for 20 minutes a day to find out what is possible, or if the training is transformative.

@Cobie do you think it is possible that the philosophy of the ddj doesn’t work in translation to languages unrelated to Chinese, as they might lack satisfactonary terms for certain concepts?

Welcome!

Lol, I fear this is going to be a very short thread indeed. When you’re right you’re right. Done and dusted.

Won’t bother with what exactly? With this: Don’t get me wrong, I realize I might sound like a smartass, but I don’t: I just want to say that in my experience, at this point of life and in this environment, this kind of philosophy or practice of non-doing (which again strikes me as a little bit of a paradox) doesn’t resonate with me. Not to be taken as an attack, I have no doubt of its validity to you and countless others, but for me it is.. idk, I do not get it. As I’ve mentioned earlier, the distinguishing between attatchment and detatchment seemed depressing. Reason being, if I am not attatched to events or people in any way what so ever, it seems to me like life becomes meaningless and all beauty disappear. Why would I care about you or anything if I did not feel the slightest sense of attatchment? A mindset I found way more useful, was that of love vs. lust. If you love people, you want what’s best for them. If you feel lust, you want what’s best for you (from them). Continuing, I don’t have the slightest doubt that meditation can do wonders for loads and loads of people. For me tho, my experience is that it doesn’t help. What does help, in my experience, is stuff like communal practice, service, limiting distractions, nature, what have you. Again, with all due respect, for me personally that text just appears as a giant paradox. I’m sure it is of great value for many, buuuut… I also think it is a little bit odd to say «this is the way,» and than say with a bunch of words that you shouldn’t say anything and that you do non-doing. If I could just turn the inner chatter off, I would, but at this point, I don’t think I can. And apologies in advance if I butchered the entire philosophy, I’d be happy to be corrected.

That reminds me of an 'event' years back : I used to be a member of 'Tarot Forum ' . There was a LOT of commercialism and marketing around that . Some people there believed all sorts of silly stuff , and , of course I was unpopular with some there for pointing it out . Then they got 'ammunition against me ' ; two of the big names in the business ( and I do mean business ! ) made this announcement that they had made a prediction from a reading and could PROVE it would be true . I was " go on then " . They were not on the forum but were marketing through social media and similar , their claims were cited by members on the forum . It was a cheap trick .... they lied . They set up something previously and then concocted a reading and dated that and then confirmed it with this supposed 'later' event . They got busted for it ( not by me, by a few others ) and it came out and I said " Told ya they was lying ! " All sorts of stuff flew out the Pandora's box ; believing members accused me of saying all this stuff about them that was slanderous ( which means , basically , untrue - I never said anything about them that was not true ) . I pointed out that what these members were saying I never said and actually , if anything THEY said it about those people , as it never came from me ... they made it up . Then these professional Tarot deck makers (marketers ) excused it all by saying it was a marketing ploy ... they had a new deck coming out and used this ' prank' to create interest in it . People were 'Ohhh , we see ... good one ! Yay there is new deck we can buy from these 'Tarot experts' ! " Eh ? They seemed to miss the whole point that the 'truth' of Tarot being able to predict what was to happen flopped , and they finally got this example of proof ... but it was actually lies and lies designed to boost the sales of their new product . Just after that the site announced immanent closure ... it had been around for years . No explanation, no taking up offers of selling it or anything offered by the desperate members that were trying to keep it open - sorry , we cant explain, its closing ! Right on the tail of that site allowing publication of slander to them and attributing it to someone who could prove they never said such a thing . Curious coincidence ! So there we had a case of 'magical marketers' using Tarot ( and the position of a magician .. in both meanings ; claiming divination accuracy and using using cheap illusory tricks ) to sell to sell more tarot . I tried to look up how many decks are on the market - impossible to tell , at least many thousand - one study suggested the tarot and Oracle industry is predicted to become a $93 million market by 2027 That's 'marketing magic' for ya !

I remember seeing advertisements where the marketer (who operates in the digital field — social media etc.) would appear in the center of an image, akin to a card, with the title “The Magician” right above his head.

That’s honestly amazing.

no

AI can be helpful -- especially if you remember that it's a nice alternative to, not a friend or a boyfriend/girlfriend or a set of exemplary parents but to a (thoroughly fubar by now) Google search. Which in its turn came as a nice (or so it seemed for a while) streamlined alternative to a research trip to the library, a set of encyclopedias, and (most importantly) a solid educational background in at least something (or better yet, solid in something and at least cursory in "everything.") The evolving art of talking to AI is like any young evolving art -- you have to learn as you go, and even with a good recipe your first pancakes will be all lumpy because a recipe is a journey, not a destination. I believe one needs to learn to not buy its BS -- and good prompts can help to an extent. Perhaps for another thread though.

exactly, which is why I put the guy on ice.

Magic, as in 'stage magic' is about convincing your audience that they have observed what you want them to observe . So I would say it is very much like marketing . ? What do you mean by that ? They use a Tarot card for advertising and marketing , specifically the Magician card ? I have never seen that , can you provide examples ? With a vizover of swoosh and sparkles ... your laundry will be whiter than ever People want the easy path .... they see a stage magician wave a wand and the desired things simply appears without work or effort ; hence the age old desire that leads people to magic and away from Magick , which is something else entirely . This dynamic is VERY similar to the dynamic between eastern practices and siddhis . That may well be the form of advertising that the industry uses , but that does not mean those drugs (tobacco and alcohol ) don't have benefit - all drugs have both benefits and depending on usage can be unhealthy . It isn't that alcohol makes one socially accepted and sexy but it does trigger the socio-sexual circuit ( its initial effect , from a limited intake . Alcohol is interesting in Exo-psychology in that the one drug triggers two of the 8 circuits .... if you have more than a couple or few drinks, it then triggers the anal territorial circuit . But greedy evil money wanters are not going to worry about those details . ??? Why do I have a desire for coca-cola just after I come out the supermarket .... I then ignore it and it goes away . I think msg (or whatever it is in some food ) does that too . If I go to one shopping center when in the city and have 'sushi' ... nice . But if I have it from the one at the south end , seems okay then 15 minutes later I am wanting some drink to 'wash the after taste ' out my mouth . I eventually gave up and now wait until I get home and make my own . Then I of course, no strange sensations arise ... if anything I feel like then drinking some straight green tea . The other thing I want to 'report' is the ever increasing stupidity of car commercials ...... get a Kia because you can now talk to it and it can save you in the near future when you get caught in zombie apocalypse WTF ? Beware , extreme stupidity enclosed ; Understanding the way human psychology works and using that to take money off them and put it in your own pocket .

here is link to guide on how to do the Revision. It also includes within an additional link for Clearing Karmic Complex.

It just appeared in my mind as a thing to do I was a little uncertain about posting the technique but apparently it was already in the public domain

Thanks, Surya. I purposely didn´t include any kind of standard "spiritual practice" in my list. Nothing against spiritual practice -- I do several myself. It´s just that there´s so much mileage that we can get out of the simpler, often overlooked things. If I´m staying up all night watching Netflix and scrolling through social media while scarfing down a pint of Hagen Daz (been there, ate that), I have no business trying to align my chakras and open my third eye.

what comes to mind that they have in common is deception and illusion. magic and marketing are about illusions.

Saw this proposed list of prompts (below) designed to stop chatbots from hallucinating. It won't solve all the problems related to the sad reality of AI (modeled after their makers) gaslighting users and hallucinating ad lib. But even though, as corrective measures go, this one is modest in the scope of what it can help accomplish, I think it's still useful -- and not only when communicating with ChatGPT et al, but also for verifying one's own statements, ideas, convictions, beliefs, etc., as well as those of other people and sources. In any event I think a sober approach along these lines beats the "everything is a hallucination" stance in its usefulness. I mentioned earlier that this idea -- everything is a hallucination -- has its place in discussions specifically concerned with religion/philosophy, physics, neuroscience -- but to apply it as a be-all end-all argument to all biological and social situations is about as helpful as hitting oneself (or what's worse, others) on the head with a hammer and declaring that the pain is not real and the hole in the skull is inconsequential since the hammer, the skull, and the brain therein are mere hallucinations.