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Riddle Me This

neidan

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#17 oak

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 11:29 AM

Yes, there is. it  is called 'building the foundation'.

Want to elaborate on that? Thanks.


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Your best guides will always be the Classics. They are living masters without an ego.

 

True perfection seems unperfect - Lao Tzu

 

Enlightenment is like an old oak, no one looks at it twice. - Taisen Deshimaru


#18 Taoist Texts

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:09 PM

Melting self is melting kalpic roots of worldly sensory perception, melting the own nature of personal characteristics, removing completely the learned polluting guest qi. It also an effort to rein in anger and to subdue desires, to vanquish self and to come back to ritual. To rein in anger and to subdue desires, to vanquish self and come back to propriety means that there should not be no thoughts nor worries, no movement and no swaying, the root and trunk should be strong and firm.

 

Similarly to building a house, for which first a foundation is tamped down, the base ground must be firm, to sustain any load of wood and bricks from which the house will be built. Now, melting self is tamping the foundation down inside, it is not some kind of melting self that takes place on the outside.

 /LYM/


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世人个个学长年,不悟年年在目前,我得宛丘平易法,只将食粥致神仙。


#19 dawei

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 02:16 PM

removing completely the learned polluting guest qi. 

 

can you explain this more ?  



#20 oak

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 03:44 PM

Melting self is melting kalpic roots of worldly sensory perception, melting the own nature of personal characteristics, removing completely the learned polluting guest qi. It also an effort to rein in anger and to subdue desires, to vanquish self and to come back to ritual. To rein in anger and to subdue desires, to vanquish self and come back to propriety means that there should not be no thoughts nor worries, no movement and no swaying, the root and trunk should be strong and firm.

 

Similarly to building a house, for which first a foundation is tamped down, the base ground must be firm, to sustain any load of wood and bricks from which the house will be built. Now, melting self is tamping the foundation down inside, it is not some kind of melting self that takes place on the outside.

 /LYM/

 

Thank you very much for your answer. If you have the good will and patience please let me know if in Taoist alchemical literature one starts that work voluntarily or on the other hand gets caught in it due to karmic causes as somehow taomeow was suggesting.

 

Midway upon the journey of our life
I found myself within a forest dark,
For the straightforward pathway had been lost.

Ah me! how hard a thing it is to say
What was this forest savage, rough, and stern,
Which in the very thought renews the fear.

So bitter is it, death is little more;
But of the good to treat, which there I found,
Speak will I of the other things I saw there.

I cannot well repeat how there I entered,
So full was I of slumber at the moment
In which I had abandoned the true way.

The Inferno - Canto I 

Dante Alighieri


Your best guides will always be the Classics. They are living masters without an ego.

 

True perfection seems unperfect - Lao Tzu

 

Enlightenment is like an old oak, no one looks at it twice. - Taisen Deshimaru


#21 Taoist Texts

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 11:37 PM

can you explain this more ?  

 

Sure. The wording is 与夫一切习染客气.

The "guest qi" is the karmic conditioning acquired in the course of the previous countless rebirths, plus the societal training in the current lifetime. Combined, they create a faux persona, consisting of learned likes and dislikes, which drags down the "host qi" (the real person of an individual) back into samsara.

 

In the real Quanzhen they used various harsh ways to get rid of it.

 

One hagiography further tells us that during the few days before his death,Wang Zhe subjected his top disciple, Ma Yu, to a very strange torture.
 
One day he bought four carp at the market, brought them back to the inn, and boiled them in a pot of water together with two jin (approximately 1 kg.) of mutton.
 
He left the stew to sit and spoil for over a month. He then brought the stew out before all of his disciples and followers and ordered them to eat it. Everybody refused, on the grounds that they were obeying the precept against the eating of meat and fish. 
 
Ma Yu alone complied by saying, “If the master tells him to eat, the disciple must eat it.”
Wang Zhe rebuked him by saying, “Just because you are unable to abstain [from meat and fish],you lay the blame on me!”
 
Wang Zhe then forced him to eat a whole bowl of the hideous stew and further proclaimed, “When you get to the west of the pass (Shaanxi), there will be none of this available; I give you this to eat.”
 
For the next several days,Wang Zhe made Ma Yu eat the stew for breakfast, after which he would send him off to the market to buy liquor and steamed honey-jujube treats, which Wang Zhe himself indulged in.
 
He would then ask Ma Yu, “Can you get it?”
Ma Yu failed to understand, and Wang Zhe would become even stricter. 
Night and day he flogged and berated Ma Yu, at the same time reassuring him, “Some day you will understand.” 
Ma Yu would reply, “I receive your benevolent teaching, but have no way of repaying you.”
Wang Zhe would in return reply, “You can repay me simply through your training.”
 
/Eskildsen/

  • dawei and oak said thanks for this

世人个个学长年,不悟年年在目前,我得宛丘平易法,只将食粥致神仙。


#22 Taoist Texts

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:38 AM

 ... if in Taoist alchemical literature one starts that work voluntarily or on the other hand gets caught in it due to karmic causes as somehow taomeow was suggesting.

 

 

This is a great question. Also a complicated one. A proper answer to it is predicated on the fundamental difference between the chinese and the western worldviews: there is no free will in the chinese one.

 

As far as the chinese are concerned everything was fixed at the beginning of times when the first people began to cycle through the wheel of rebirths. For no reason some of them were born good, some of them were born sinful. That was just the way the cookie crumbled. When the mid-life crisis strikes, as it did Dante, the good ones start the work, because they were programmed to do so by the whole previous karma not because they have a free will to make a voluntary choice.

 

Because starting the work involves disrupting the commonsensical way of life, to the observers, and even to the person himself, the person looks possessed, crazy or just going through the mid-life crisis, all of which are not voluntary reasons.


  • oak said thanks for this

世人个个学长年,不悟年年在目前,我得宛丘平易法,只将食粥致神仙。


#23 oak

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:38 AM

This is a great question. Also a complicated one. A proper answer to it is predicated on the fundamental difference between the chinese and the western worldviews: there is no free will in the chinese one.

 

As far as the chinese are concerned everything was fixed at the beginning of times when the first people began to cycle through the wheel of rebirths. For no reason some of them were born good, some of them were born sinful. That was just the way the cookie crumbled. When the mid-life crisis strikes, as it did Dante, the good ones start the work, because they were programmed to do so by the whole previous karma not because they have a free will to make a voluntary choice.

 

Because starting the work involves disrupting the commonsensical way of life, to the observers, and even to the person himself, the person looks possessed, crazy or just going through the mid-life crisis, all of which are not voluntary reasons.

 

Much as I thought. Thank you for the confirmation Taoist Texts.


  • Taoist Texts said thanks for this

Your best guides will always be the Classics. They are living masters without an ego.

 

True perfection seems unperfect - Lao Tzu

 

Enlightenment is like an old oak, no one looks at it twice. - Taisen Deshimaru






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