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What are your favorite books on practical Alchemy?


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#33 rex

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 09:57 AM

Nothing whatsoever to do with that and don't mention it again.

Why can't this be mentioned again?

#34 FraterUFA

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:00 AM

Hi Chris,

 

The blinds he put in there are deliberately and he wrote about that iirc in vol 2 of spagyrics.

Originally these whole scripts where a distance study course for LPN members. You could see who is doing the work because they would hit roadblocks and ask or they would find a solution depending on their depth of understanding. There was a kind of master student relationship embedded in this way. If it would have been a book, i wouldn't I like his approach :)

 

Yes, agree completely and that's what I was getting at. The LPN/PON are no longer around so in the context of this thread, the lessons themselves aren't really ideal (I assume that the person who asked doesn't have a mentor).

 

Imho , they don't lose their signature, the difference lies in a living plant radiating it's signature outward and a dead plant retaining it. 

 

That's an interesting approach I hadn't considered.

 

The way I think of it is that the "life force" isn't a real thing of itself. Rather, it's what manifests when the three principles are present. Dried herbs (absent seeds) will not sprout given the right conditions nor can they be induced to reproduce in any manner... they do not demonstrate the properties of life. And therefore, we have to ask ourselves... if life isn't present, then are all three principles present?

 

The farmer, gardener and winemaker all know that the life of a plant is virtually gone after 24 hours of being cut. So it follows that these principles are greatly weakened after this time.

 

Of course, in some small degree the body of the plant is still living, but not to the same degree that it was before. 

 

It seams that this is a simple question when actually it is not :D

Ethanol is the carrier of the principle of mercury never the mercury in itself.

It doesn't have to occur naturally, nature takes a less pure way to do the work.

The art takes a shortcut in seperating and purifying the principles.

We have (to stay at the current example of the universal mercury of the plant kingdom) the volatizing and the fixing mercury in every plant. But only the mercury of grapes is universally usable.

 

Yes, exactly... which is why statements that Dubuis made (again, I think he did this intentionally) like: "the Spirit is contained in the alcohol and is common to all plants", it is quite misleading.

 

But this is as it should be, right? Elsewhere are hints and statements which contradict this one (and which are correct).

 

No we don't only have water experiences on Mondays :) The Etz Chiim is the simplest Glyph but its everexpanding. It may be correct to say that on a Sunday morning in the first hour the influence of the sun is at it's peak and it maybe a good idea to take a tincture/elixir at this hour because it may be easier to get an awareness of this energy. But it's only a dominating factor for a short amount of time.

 

So now we start getting into astrology. What is the proper role of astrology in alchemy? I certainly don't fully understand it and I believe very few do. But what is certain is that we've muddled it up beyond recognition for the most part and Dubuis certainly contributed to this.

 

I believe that as far as astrology plays a role in alchemy, it is limited to the following:

 

1. The phase of the moon

2. The zodiacal sign of the sun

3. The time of day

4. The major aspects made to the moon

 

Now what is quite interesting about this is that the first three of these have sound physiological reasons behind them. The fouth, I cannot explain nor can I prove one way or another at the current time (eg: it is a belief I currently hold).

 

And whether these make any difference at all in the plant work is another question altogether.

 

I won't throw anything at you :D

 

It remains to be seen :-)

 

More evolved should mean more in balance. Grapes should be the most in balance therefore you can take the mercury from grapes and use it on the whole plant kingdom.

 

Balance implies polarity, so I would argue that this is the opposite of evolution in an alchemical sense. We can be perfectly balanced and unevolved at the same time.

 

I think of evolution as being a measure of how close an individual is to the frontier of what the collective consciousness of their particular species has experienced. 

 

Under this paradigm, the quintessence of lemonbalm would possess properties that the quintessence of spearmint does not, such as the ability to rejuvenate human tissues.

 

 

That serves a purpose imho. I'm looking for the right Allegory here but i don't know a good one -.-

 

Let say you want to purify and strenghten Tiphareth. Lets look at a few availablve alchemical options.

 

Veg. Tincture

Veg. Elixir

Cirrculatum Minor

Vegetable Stone

Metallic. Tincture

etc etc etc.

 

If you take a veg. tincture the effect is minimal but it's there. You proceed through the ranks and everything gets more purified and strengthend. If you don't do it that way you can seriously hurt yourself in the process.

 

That is the theory and certainly a safe one for someone working on their own. But by no means is it a requirement. 

 

The application of the proper force to the physical body can do more in 60 seconds than months or years of this gradual and often imperceptible consumption of alchemical products. At least tinctures and elixirs, which I am familiar with.

 

I question though this theory... Albertus popularized it and I am quite certain that what he revealed in public differed from what he revealed in private.

 

I know what you are meaning, think of it that way. If i would write a book where i state everything no secrets. (Obviously i'm not able to do that.) How many would work their way through it and how many would skip to the last chapter ? The information maybe not in a neat order but in a way that sows the seeds and let them mature before new information is added to it.

 

Yes, I think we completely agree on this.

 

A reorganized version would be great for someone who actually did the work. For students in a distance learning course not so. Btw if you have a reorganized version i'd really like to have it :D :D :D

 

I would but it is not mine to give!

 

Actually very possible that you are purified enough for the next step :D

As everything we take in has an alchemical effect (not necessarily a purifying) i can assure you they work :D but not in the most efficient way possible and that's for good!

 

This is a good conversation. I am enjoying it. :-)

 

Fr. UFA



#35 FraterUFA

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:04 AM

Anything to do with the secret fire without which nothing can be accomplished? : )

 

Consider that what science knows and can easily prove about matter versus that which science denies. 


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#36 rex

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:12 AM

 
Consider that what science knows and can easily prove about matter versus that which science denies. 

Thanks! : )

#37 Zhongyongdaoist

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:16 AM

Nothing whatsoever to do with that and don't mention it again.

  

Why can't this be mentioned again?


It's just a joke, about its being secret fire. I hate using smiley faces, maybe I should color code these things instead.




Edit: Changed smile to smiley.

Edited by Zhongyongdaoist, 11 November 2014 - 10:17 AM.

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Donald
aka Zhongyongdaoist


'It is better for us that there should be difference of judgment, if we keep charity: but it is most unmanly to quarrel because we differ'

'Nothing spoils human Nature more, than false Zeal ... because I may be Mistaken, I must not be dogmatical and confident, peremptory and imperious. I will not break the certain Laws of Charity, for a doubtful Doctrine or of uncertain Truth'

'... I oppose not rational to spiritual; for spiritual is most rational: But I contradistinquish rational to conceited, impotent , affected CANTING ...'

All by Benjamin Whichcote, 17th Century English Theologian, quoted from Ernst Cassirer's The Platonic Renaissance in England, a much neglected book of Wisdom.

All of that said it remains true that:

Only the man of virtue knows whom to love and whom to hate. Confucius, Analects 4.3

#38 rex

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:26 AM

  It's just a joke, about its being secret fire. I hate using smiley faces, maybe I should color code these things instead.Edit: Changed smile to smiley.

Phew! For a moment you had me worried! : )

#39 Asmo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 12:12 PM

Hi FraterUFA,

 

That's an interesting approach I hadn't considered.

 

It like revivifying dead metal with fresh life, metal also holds the signature. For a "weak" veg. tincture you can use only the dried plant. for a veg. stone you need fresh plants. Or you reintroduce life into your dried plants :D

 

 

The way I think of it is that the "life force" isn't a real thing of itself. Rather, it's what manifests when the three principles are present. Dried herbs (absent seeds) will not sprout given the right conditions nor can they be induced to reproduce in any manner... they do not demonstrate the properties of life. And therefore, we have to ask ourselves... if life isn't present, then are all three principles present?

 

The 3 principles are always present everytime everywhere. Dried herbs cannot sprout because the don't have enough life force to reproduce aka build seeds but do you know grafting ? Where you cut the stem off of one fruittree (cutting their life force) and implant it on another tree, reenableing the flow :)  But small plants decompose too fast for that method. The animal real decomposes even faster.

 

 

Yes, exactly... which is why statements that Dubuis made (again, I think he did this intentionally) like: "the Spirit is contained in the alcohol and is common to all plants", it is quite misleading.

 

But this is as it should be, right? Elsewhere are hints and statements which contradict this one (and which are correct).

 

I cannot claim to really know Dubuis intentions, but everything i know of this man makes me believe that he did it with the best intentions for his students. As soon as someone picks up one of the more classical (philosophical) books on alchemy, like the before mentioned Aurea Catena Homeri, they should realise that we are not working with physical parts but metaphysical principles applied to physical parts.

 

 

So now we start getting into astrology. What is the proper role of astrology in alchemy? I certainly don't fully understand it and I believe very few do. But what is certain is that we've muddled it up beyond recognition for the most part and Dubuis certainly contributed to this.

 

I believe that as far as astrology plays a role in alchemy, it is limited to the following:

 

1. The phase of the moon

2. The zodiacal sign of the sun

3. The time of day

4. The major aspects made to the moon

 

Now what is quite interesting about this is that the first three of these have sound physiological reasons behind them. The fouth, I cannot explain nor can I prove one way or another at the current time (eg: it is a belief I currently hold).

 

And whether these make any difference at all in the plant work is another question altogether.

 

As there is only one root (imho :D) wheter you call it Source, God, Tao, Allah or whatever else and everything sprouts from it everything has an impact on everyting to different degrees at different times. There is one major key in the 3 principles and 4 elements you can also find it in the post heaven bagua.

 

Balance implies polarity, so I would argue that this is the opposite of evolution in an alchemical sense. We can be perfectly balanced and unevolved at the same time.

 

Compare pre heaven bagua with post heaven, both have polarity but one is perfectly balanced while the other is not and therefore is allowing change and therefore evolution. As long as you are not at the source you will have polarity everywhere, balance it, balance it so perfectly that it "transcends" it ;) Being perfectly balanced and unevolved was a long time ago when this whole thing started imho.

 

 

That is the theory and certainly a safe one for someone working on their own. But by no means is it a requirement. 

 

The application of the proper force to the physical body can do more in 60 seconds than months or years of this gradual and often imperceptible consumption of alchemical products. At least tinctures and elixirs, which I am familiar with.

 

Hmm i'm doing a type of QiGong where i'm advised to only do about 5 to 10 minutes twice a day. As i'm notoriously curious i tried it longer, resulting in what we call overcleansing. The amount of energy was not the problem but my body simply couldn't cope with the release of blockages and i got ill for a few days. Today that won't happen. Afaik Dubuis advised to take the vegetable stuff for 18months before switching to metallic or mineral ones. If a beginner does nothing else beside alchemy i think it's sound advise.

 

 

I would but it is not mine to give!

 

Maybe you could ask  :D :D :D

 

 

This is a good conversation. I am enjoying it. :-)

 

Me too!

 

 

Chris



#40 BaguaKicksAss

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    老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
    - from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

Posted 06 December 2014 - 01:13 PM

Since this seems to be the alchemy thread, I thought I would ask here.  So I have acquired a box of realgar/orpiment.  They are the prettiest rocks ever!  I seem to have a couple of different grades of the realgar.  I only have a few pieces left of the top grade, but an entire box full of the not quite as awesome sort. 

 

Any suggestions what I can do with this alchemically, magically, or?  I have to say they have the most amazing energy ever that I have come across in a rock :).

 

I also have a large chunk of antimony, which I'm not entirely sure what to do with either. 

 

Ideas? :)

 

Why yes, I did happen upon a private lapidary sale of the collection of a geologer/rockhound! 

 

I did create the most amazing magical circle for a couple of workings, with some giant lodestones, copper ore, silver ore, realgar, etc. etc. etc. :D


Edited by BaguaKicksAss, 06 December 2014 - 01:20 PM.

"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
- from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

#41 Michael Sternbach

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 05:43 AM

I found what I was looking for:

 

Robert Allen Bartlett: The Way of the Crucible

 

This is a brilliant introduction to the mineral work. The author feels what I thought myself, mineral Alchemy has been almost completely obscured so far and aims to remedy this by his book.


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#42 theurgy

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 07:41 AM

BEWARE! This book is incomplete and the author himself has not completed the Work described . The book was put together from notes from Frater Albertus' classes. I have this on VERY good authority from many sources. Please do not do yourself any harm by following this book. All the best.

#43 BaguaKicksAss

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    老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
    - from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:28 AM

I finally read the book; not much about actual alchemy, more about random spiritual practices thrown together and modern ceremonial magick thrown in.  Aside from this though, if one takes out all the extraneous filler, what is wrong with the book?  Could you go into some detail giving actual examples please?  It's really easy to say someone hasn't completed the work; we all say that about practitioners we don't like, but some specifics about what is wrong with his methods would be nice. I mean aside from the fact that the actual info never makes it into books sort of thing...


Edited by BaguaKicksAss, 23 January 2015 - 08:29 AM.

"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
- from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

#44 FraterUFA

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:40 AM

I recently picked up this work as a reference and though I haven't read the entire thing, I did find a fundamental error in his chapter about the spirit of philosophical wine. The section on practical technique leaves out quite a bit and should really come with more cautions and warnings about the technique he describes.

 

My two cents, FWIW.

UFA



#45 noonespecial

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 07:03 PM

I found what I was looking for:

 

Robert Allen Bartlett: The Way of the Crucible

 

This is a brilliant introduction to the mineral work. The author feels what I thought myself, mineral Alchemy has been almost completely obscured so far and aims to remedy this by his book.

 

I've been meaning to pick that one up.

 

As for me, my favorite for to the point meditation and contemplation is Lambsread. No filler.


"Notes to self - 'do not mistake seriousness for sincerity, complexity for truth, variety for freedom"


#46 FraterUFA

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 05:52 AM

I am not a fan. I am intimately familiar with one of the works described in this book and the author made several statements that indicates he hasn't done it himself (or he intentionally inserted these errors). The fact that he sells alchemy courses on his website should tell you something as well.

 

UFA



#47 rex

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:57 PM

This looks a good'un:
Child of the Sun: Psychic & Physical Rejuvenation in Alchemy and Qabala
http://www.amazon.co.../dp/1522735143/

#48 silent thunder

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 04:25 PM

Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu: Wang Li Ping

Secret of the Golden Flower: Richard Wilhelm translator

 


It seems I am part of something vast, while growing entirely from smaller things.

Not one raindrop has ever fallen in the wrong spot... there are no accidents.

Everything I Love and Everything I Hate come from the Same Source.

Ever present, never twice the same.
Always changing, never less than whole.

As Above, So Below: As Within, Without.

I don't believe everything I think.

stop glorifying busy




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