Discovering Internal Principles Through Embodied Practice

[TaiChiGringo]

Hi All,

I wanted to share something I’ve been arriving at in my Chen-style practice, that touches on Taoist internal practices, Qigong, and what I’d call embodied self-discovery. In my experience, Chen-style Taijiquan reveals itself more as something to be discovered rather than learned in the conventional sense. It's as if the principles already exist within the body, and simply need to be uncovered, felt, refined, and integrated over time through careful, attentive practice. 

For me, what’s striking is how this practice interacts with the body’s connective tissue, nervous system, and interoceptive capacities. Standing cultivates baseline tone, alignment, and subtle internal stretch. Silk Reeling and Form practice introduce dynamic spirals and nervous system feedback that repatterns and reshapes tissue and helps the body discover efficient, integrated pathways of movement. Together, they create an internal calibration that feels very tangible, a “felt sense” of how my body organizes, balances, and responds.

I’m curious how this resonates with others’ experiences. How have your own Taoist, Qigong, or internal practices shaped your sense of internal organization, alignment, or subtle body awareness? Have you noticed anything similar to what I describe in Chen Taijiquan: feedback, regulation, or embodied learning that feels discovered rather than taught?

I’d love to hear your thoughts, insights, or personal experiences.

 

If anybody is interested, I wrote a longer article exploring this in detail, you can read that article here: https://www.taijiquan.quest/post/chen-tai-chi-discovered

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, TaiChiGringo said:

Hi All,

I wanted to share something I’ve been arriving at in my Chen-style practice, that touches on Taoist internal practices, Qigong, and what I’d call embodied self-discovery. In my experience, Chen-style Taijiquan reveals itself more as something to be discovered rather than learned in the conventional sense. It's as if the principles already exist within the body, and simply need to be uncovered, felt, refined, and integrated over time through careful, attentive practice. 

 

Thank you very much for revealing the Taiji secret of discovery. Yes, you are very true about the internal discovery that no one can described as crystal clear as you have. Perhaps the other practitioners have not reached into inner stage. As you said, the teacher can only show you the external skills to help you to discover the internal transformation. People didn't feel the sensation of the internal transformation will never reach the realm of the fine art of Taiji. For example, the teacher always tell the students to breathe naturally as one normally do. At a stage during the practice, if they don't sense any change in the deepness of the breathing was because they were afraid to breathe in too deep is wrong. They couldn't forget what the teacher told them about breathing naturally. They will never realize that their breathing should be lower down to the dantien. Hence, they will never discover what it meant by "sink chi to dantien," 氣沉丹田。

 

BTW I'm a Yang style Taiji practitioner.

Edited Sunday at 10:05 AM by ChiDragon

[Lairg]

5 hours ago, TaiChiGringo said:

what’s striking is how this practice interacts with the body’s connective tissue, nervous system, and interoceptive capacities.

These days I tend to deal mainly with the intelligences internal/attached to the human format.

 

For example I have trained my physical body to breathe in the Chi and store it in the kidneys on the out-breath.  I find  that when I wake in the morning, often my body is already storing the Chi

 

[TaiChiGringo]

3 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

Thank you very much for revealing the Taiji secret of discovery. Yes, you are very true about the internal discovery that no one can described as crystal clear as you have. Perhaps the other practitioners have not reached into inner stage. As you said, the teacher can only show you the external skills to help you to discover the internal transformation. People didn't feel the sensation of the internal transformation will never reach the realm of the fine art of Taiji. For example, the teacher always tell the students to breathe naturally as one normally do. At a stage during the practice, if they don't sense any change in the deepness of the breathing was because they were afraid to breathe in too deep is wrong. They couldn't forget what the teacher told them about breathing naturally. They will never realize that their breathing should be lower down to the dantien. Hence, they will never discover what it meant by "sink chi to dantien," 氣沉丹田。

 

BTW I'm a Yang style Taiji practitioner.

 

Thank you for the thoughtful response and kind words,  I appreciate it

 

Breathing is a good example. Being told to “breathe naturally” is useful early on because it prevents interference. But at some point, if the body settles and unnecessary tension drops away, the breath reorganises by itself, it deepens, slows, and feels as though it sinks lower. That discovery isn’t about deciding to breathe into the dantian, but noticing that when the structure and nervous system are organised well, it happens naturally.

That’s what I mean by discovery rather than instruction. Teachers can point, correct externally, and help to create the right constraints, but the internal shifts only really land when the body senses them directly. For me, practices like standing, silk reeling, and especially push hands are valuable because they provide continuous feedback, they make it harder to mistake imagination or belief for actual internal change.

Edited Sunday at 01:04 PM by TaiChiGringo

[TaiChiGringo]

56 minutes ago, Lairg said:

These days I tend to deal mainly with the intelligences internal/attached to the human format.

 

For example I have trained my physical body to breathe in the Chi and store it in the kidneys on the out-breath.  I find  that when I wake in the morning, often my body is already storing the Chi

 

 

Thanks for sharing. I tend to stay close to what I can directly feel and verify in the body: changes in breathing mechanics, tissue tone, sensations of connection etc, rather than working with organ-based storage or internal visualisation models. For me, when structure and tension organise well, the breath settles on its own, and internal sensations deepen and refine naturally, without needing to be directed. But everyone experiences things in a slightly different way, and what is ultimately important is what works for the individual.

[ChiDragon]

8 hours ago, TaiChiGringo said:

the breath settles on its own, and internal sensations deepen and refine naturally, without needing to be directed. But everyone experiences things in a slightly different way, and what is ultimately important is what works for the individual.

 

Yes, when the breath is inside the body, we have no control of it. The body will take care itself by carrying out it's function. The only thing we can regulate is the breathing externally. Externally, we can breathe slowly going down to the LDT and slowly exhale. Exhale is more significant then inhalation. So the speak. The reason is that we want to keep the amount of oxygen in the lungs as long as possible. That is the only way to regulate the chi in the body. That chi will be stored in the body as the ancient Taoist claimed. If the chi loses for six minutes, people will die or become brain dead after an rescue. The so called stored chi won't do any good.

 

The experience thought by someone is only an elusive perception of what was taken place inside the body. 

Edited Sunday at 08:03 PM by ChiDragon

[steve]

12 hours ago, TaiChiGringo said:

I’m curious how this resonates with others’ experiences. How have your own Taoist, Qigong, or internal practices shaped your sense of internal organization, alignment, or subtle body awareness? Have you noticed anything similar to what I describe in Chen Taijiquan: feedback, regulation, or embodied learning that feels discovered rather than taught?

 

Your experience resonates strongly with my own. 

For me, neijia, neigong, and neidan are journeys of self discovery. 

A teacher can give pointers and direction, as well as exercises to engage with, but we must engage and discover for ourselves the true meaning, proper technique, and results. 

Externally, the teacher can adjust the posture but internally, the inner details of posture must be discovered.

This is the only way we can learn to self-correct and make meaningful progress in our practice. 

Once we have developed adequate skill and confidence, engaging with others allow us to test our progress and discover our weaknesses and errors, such as in tui shou, san da, and so on.

This is why it is said in taijiquan that we must 'invest in loss.'

[Lairg]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

The body will take care itself by carrying out it's function.

 

What happens when the body is carrying ancient trauma?

 

[ChiDragon]

5 minutes ago, Lairg said:

What happens when the body is carrying ancient trauma?

If the body is malfunction to begin with, then it would have to be taken care of by external remedy. Normally, Qigong meditation would help to cure some areas where the trauma occurs. Again. the body is a self healing machine. The body itself is constantly doing body scan to find something to be repaired. Scanning is part of the body function. Taiji are considered as Qigong that may help to heal the body trauma, It is because the movements are soft and not as aggressive as other styles, e.g. the Chen style.

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, steve said:

Externally, the teacher can adjust the posture but internally, the inner details of posture must be discovered.

This is the only way we can learn to self-correct and make meaningful progress in our practice. 

Once we have developed adequate skill and confidence, engaging with others allow us to test our progress and discover our weaknesses and errors, such as in tui shou, san da, and so on.

There are many members had mentioned having a good teacher is a must. However, a good teacher can guide the student to do all the correct postures. At that instance, the student should discover something about the instruction. Otherwise, if the student just said "ok I got it" with no discovery, then it is a different story. If the student got it without practicing diligently, then there will be no discovery and remain in the non progressive stage. 

Edited Sunday at 11:03 PM by ChiDragon

[Lairg]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Normally, Qigong meditation would help to cure some areas where the trauma occurs. 

 

I run each morning.  A couple of months ago I had a recurrent pain inside the upper thigh.  It was not too bad so I kept running.  The pain moved around a bit,  so more an energy issue than physical damage - at this stage.

 

The discomfort had diminished a bit, and today while running, looking at the pain I had an image of close relative killing me with a spear thrust where the pain is.   It was a past life trauma.  So I forgave him and myself and removed the energy structure and the discomfort was greatly reduced.

 

Then I saw some dark energy anchors at the site and removed those.  Better again.

 

But there was still a bit of discomfort and I had an image of being killed with a sword thrust in the same place - this time by the elder son of a close friend.   So forgiveness both ways and removal of energy.  The discomfort is much less now.

 

Physical trauma that repeats in the same place has a deeper cause.  In this case it looks like group karma.

 

 

 

[Nungali]

.... sounds like a lot of people you knew wanted to kill you   ......     

 

 

 

[TaiChiGringo]

12 hours ago, steve said:

 

Your experience resonates strongly with my own. 

For me, neijia, neigong, and neidan are journeys of self discovery. 

A teacher can give pointers and direction, as well as exercises to engage with, but we must engage and discover for ourselves the true meaning, proper technique, and results. 

Externally, the teacher can adjust the posture but internally, the inner details of posture must be discovered.

This is the only way we can learn to self-correct and make meaningful progress in our practice. 

Once we have developed adequate skill and confidence, engaging with others allow us to test our progress and discover our weaknesses and errors, such as in tui shou, san da, and so on.

This is why it is said in taijiquan that we must 'invest in loss.'

 

Yes absolutely, and that's why teaching Tai Chi well is so difficult and such an art

 

I really like what you said about engaging with others to test progress, I agree completely. For me, one of the most valuable aspects of Tui Shou is that it provides real, external feedback on what's actually been developed. It’s easy to get caught up in sensation or “perceptual fantasy” when practicing solo, thinking you’re aligned or relaxed, when the body might tell a very different story under pressure.

Tui Shou keeps you honest, highlights weaknesses, and shows where the internal work is actually translating, or where it’s not yet. In that sense, it’s not just a method for transitioning towards combat; it’s also a mirror for the body-mind integration that solo practice cultivates. 

[TaiChiGringo]

10 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

What happens when the body is carrying ancient trauma?

 

 

In my understanding and personal experience, the fascial tissues encode the patterns of our past trauma, what I refer to as Biomechanical Debt. Taijiquan is by far the most sophisticated method I’ve found for accessing and gently remodeling this deeply held fascia, allowing the body to integrate past experiences into a more balanced, whole state.

It’s important to note that this is a long journey. The fascial remodeling process is slow and can sometimes be arduous, but it is possible. The body has an innate wisdom and a natural tendency to return to a more neutral, efficient neurophysiological state when supported with the right conditions.

I’ll be writing more articles on this topic, as it’s been a major theme of my personal practice over the last 5–6 years. I’ve found it deeply transformative, and I hope to share insights that might help others explore the potential of this work safely and effectively.

 

[TaiChiGringo]

10 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

There are many members had mentioned having a good teacher is a must. However, a good teacher can guide the student to do all the correct postures. At that instance, the student should discover something about the instruction. Otherwise, if the student just said "ok I got it" with no discovery, then it is a different story. If the student got it without practicing diligently, then there will be no discovery and remain in the non progressive stage. 

 

I completely agree. Thinking you’ve “got it” is, in my experience, one of the most dangerous pitfalls in Tai Chi. When that happens, practice stalls into choreography, and the refinement of interoception stops progressing.

This is, I think, one of the biggest cause of plateaus: the body and nervous system stop being challenged, and nothing new is discovered internally. Genuine progress comes from continually testing, sensing, and integrating, even when the movements look “correct” on the outside. We need to stay curious and with a beginners' mind through the whole journey.

[TaiChiGringo]

10 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

If the body is malfunction to begin with, then it would have to be taken care of by external remedy. Normally, Qigong meditation would help to cure some areas where the trauma occurs. Again. the body is a self healing machine. The body itself is constantly doing body scan to find something to be repaired. Scanning is part of the body function. Taiji are considered as Qigong that may help to heal the body trauma, It is because the movements are soft and not as aggressive as other styles, e.g. the Chen style.

 

Yes other practices are sometimes necessary. I needed Chiropractic treatment to get my body better aligned, as I was somewhat twisted and therefore couldn't practice Tai Chi due to knee problems. 

 

I also did specific breath and emotional Integration work to integrate some of my early life traumas, and the fascial work of Tai Chi has been continuing that journey at a deeper and more refined level

[TaiChiGringo]

8 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I run each morning.  A couple of months ago I had a recurrent pain inside the upper thigh.  It was not too bad so I kept running.  The pain moved around a bit,  so more an energy issue than physical damage - at this stage.

 

The discomfort had diminished a bit, and today while running, looking at the pain I had an image of close relative killing me with a spear thrust where the pain is.   It was a past life trauma.  So I forgave him and myself and removed the energy structure and the discomfort was greatly reduced.

 

Then I saw some dark energy anchors at the site and removed those.  Better again.

 

But there was still a bit of discomfort and I had an image of being killed with a sword thrust in the same place - this time by the elder son of a close friend.   So forgiveness both ways and removal of energy.  The discomfort is much less now.

 

Physical trauma that repeats in the same place has a deeper cause.  In this case it looks like group karma.

 

 

 

 

That’s an interesting way of working with it. I’m not personally opposed to ideas like past‑life or group trauma, but for me, honestly, dealing with this life already feels like plenty 😄

In my own experience, whatever the ultimate cause, I tend to approach recurring pain and discomfort through the lens of tissue history, nervous system patterning, and lived experience in this body. That alone turns out to be a deep enough rabbit hole, and it’s given me more than enough material to work with in practice.

Different frameworks clearly resonate with different people, though, and if a model or technique helps someone resolve suffering and move better, that's all that matters.

[FluffyGuardian]

I practice Chen Family Taijiquan. 

In our line, Taijiquan is a gongfu practice.

Much of what we develop is not innate to the human body. It has to be built. Forged. If you take someone who has never trained this way, it does not matter how well you explain things to them in the moment, or what cues you give them about what to feel; there are things they simply cannot do yet, because those capacities do not exist in their body.

The earth has rocks by default. It does not have swords. Swords have to be made.

There is a National USA Push Hands Champion (allegedly) who has been training for 30-40 years and is a disciple of a well-known teacher.

 
I, a self-proclaimed beginner and complete nobody with five years of training, trolled him in Push Hands as he was a judge at a Push Hand tournament. I later heard he has talked a lot about me in his Push Hand classes, trying to figure out how to counter me, even trying to invite me to his school. 

 

Now... I look at his writing online. He wrote article about Daoist breathing and how he teaches his students it as a key element in strengthening the central energy line and improving pushing hands, how it to cultivate the Dao and train their Qi. 

From repeated, real-world contact with other practitioners and teachers, one thing has become very clear to me: methodology beats principles. Most people are never taught such methodology, even though they may train for decades and speak fluently about internal theory.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by FluffyGuardian

[Master Logray]

4 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

 methodology beats principles. 

 

 

Then how about experience falls in this formula?

[RobB]

Hi All, This approach interests me as well. One of the surprises of my sitting practice was how much of a physical experience it has been as the body shifts and aligns/relaxes around an increasingly refined central position.

 

I really like the work that Simon Thakur (www.ancestralmovement.com) has put out. My plan is to dig into some of his qigong this year. He has a weekly class online and you can view the first  class (which has a load of good stuff in it) for free on YT.

[TaiChiGringo]

5 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

I practice Chen Family Taijiquan. 

In our line, Taijiquan is a gongfu practice.

Much of what we develop is not innate to the human body. It has to be built. Forged. If you take someone who has never trained this way, it does not matter how well you explain things to them in the moment, or what cues you give them about what to feel; there are things they simply cannot do yet, because those capacities do not exist in their body.

The earth has rocks by default. It does not have swords. Swords have to be made.

There is a National USA Push Hands Champion (allegedly) who has been training for 30-40 years and is a disciple of a well-known teacher.

 
I, a self-proclaimed beginner and complete nobody with five years of training, trolled him in Push Hands as he was a judge at a Push Hand tournament. I later heard he has talked a lot about me in his Push Hand classes, trying to figure out how to counter me, even trying to invite me to his school. 

 

Now... I look at his writing online. He wrote article about Daoist breathing and how he teaches his students it as a key element in strengthening the central energy line and improving pushing hands, how it to cultivate the Dao and train their Qi. 

From repeated, real-world contact with other practitioners and teachers, one thing has become very clear to me: methodology beats principles. Most people are never taught such methodology, even though they may train for decades and speak fluently about internal theory.

 

 

Absolutely, I completely agree with your point about “forging” capacities. That’s exactly what I mean by developmental remodeling / the refining stream: the body has to be built and conditioned to support these subtle internal capacities, whether in fascia, nervous system, or movement efficiency. Without that foundation, the principles can’t be realized, although they can be "imagined", which I think is where a lot of people get stuck.

At the same time, I’d argue that methodology must lead to principle. Methodical, structured practice is what it builds the foundation and creates the container. But it’s only the first step; the ultimate goal is to discover and embody the principles within that container. Without the principles, the method alone remains mechanical. In other words, the “sword” can’t exist without first being forged, but once it’s forged, the principle is what sharpens it.

[ChiDragon]

15 minutes ago, TaiChiGringo said:

Without the principles, the method alone remains mechanical. In other words, the “sword” can’t exist without first being forged, but once it’s forged, the principle is what sharpens it.

 

Knowing the significance of the principle that comes before the methodology is admirable and noble as a Taiji practitioner. 

[FluffyGuardian]

3 hours ago, TaiChiGringo said:

 

Absolutely, I completely agree with your point about “forging” capacities. That’s exactly what I mean by developmental remodeling / the refining stream: the body has to be built and conditioned to support these subtle internal capacities, whether in fascia, nervous system, or movement efficiency. Without that foundation, the principles can’t be realized, although they can be "imagined", which I think is where a lot of people get stuck.

At the same time, I’d argue that methodology must lead to principle. Methodical, structured practice is what it builds the foundation and creates the container. But it’s only the first step; the ultimate goal is to discover and embody the principles within that container. Without the principles, the method alone remains mechanical. In other words, the “sword” can’t exist without first being forged, but once it’s forged, the principle is what sharpens it.

 

I agree with you that methodology leads to principle, but.... in the Tai Chi community, by and large, people believe the opposite. 

They believe that principle leads to methodology, or... they believe principles ARE the methodology.

 

And that's why I wrote methodology beats principles because... in my experience, people who talk about principles often lack methodology or believe the principles is the "how" part. They view Tai Chi as nothing more than a checklist. 

 

They are obsessed with finding the "essence" of the art. A principle, by definition, is a fundamental truth/proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning." 

But here's the problem. An "essence" is a distillation of something. They are constantly in pursuit of subtracting their own art.

For example, Taijiquan is known for Ba Jin: Peng, Lu, Ji, An, Tsai, Lie, Zhao, Kao.

But in today's Taijiquan community, people seem to realize that Peng is "fundamental" whereas the remaining 7 are not. One is not literally using all 8 of those Jins at the same time, but Peng is always present and is the mother of all other jins. 

So, due to their mindset, they essentially tossed the other 7 out the window. 

Very often, they define Taiji as "Peng and Song"; they don't care about other jins anymore. The last four hardly ever gets mentioned.

When I say that they believe principles lead to or are the "methodology", one example of that is that they might believe if they ONLY practice Peng and Song, they will magically be experts in the remaining 7 Jins. 

There seems to be a trend here.....

Originally, Taijiquan was a Northern Chinese martial art with striking, standup grappling, locking, tripping, etc... 

Then... Taijiquan was actually... 13 Postures (8 Jin + 5 Directions)

 

Then... Taijiquan was actually... 8 Jins...
 

Then... Taijiquan was actually... 4 Jins: Peng, Lu, Ji, An.... they are the Primary Jins whereas the remaining four are Secondary Jins.

 

Then... Taijiquan was actually... Peng and Song....

 

Then... I see people recently coming up with theories to argue that Peng and Song are either the same thing... or they want something more abstract to encapsulate it. They want to distill it even more... to 1 word. 

And through this pursuit of distillation... the more and more they seem to lose.