Endless desire

[stirling]

13 hours ago, Tommy said:

Don't know if I am doing this wrong or not. Or maybe just too early??? Not looking forward to demons and voices.

 

Demons and voices are "makyo":

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makyō

 

They are distractions that come from the thinking mind. If your mind is still, they aren't there by definition. The stillness is the deeper reality of these experiences - the thing that is ALWAYS there when the mind is allowed to stop.

 

Many experiences of all kinds occur during meditation. Most of them are blissful. Some people have supernatural experiences, some don't. It's good to have recourse to a proper teacher to check in with who has seen and understands these experiences, so that when things like this happen they can be framed in their proper perspective and there is some tuning of your practice where problems arise. 

 

@Cadcam, if you are continuing to experience anhedonia you should really be in contact with a mental health professional.

[old3bob]

I'd say that besides types of illusions that may only be in our heads or that might be downplayed or written off as only that, there are real beings that are predatory dark souls which are not written off so easily or just by philosophical thoughts.   Thus all the thousands of years of  work that protective beings have done and are doing, along with teachings and methods that have been used against such forces.

 

Btw, most orthodox shrinks know nothing of the other side...and also write off problem's related to it as just a mental or emotional delusions.

 

 

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

I'd say that besides types of illusions that may only be in our heads or that might be downplayed or written off as only that, there are real beings that are predatory dark souls which are not written off so easily or just by philosophical thoughts.   Thus all the thousands of years of  work that protective beings have done and are doing, along with teachings and methods that have been used against such forces.

 

Btw, most orthodox shrinks know nothing of the other side...and also write off problem's related to it as just a mental or emotional delusions.

Sounds like stuff that myths and legends are made from. "Thousands of years of work that protective beings have done". If I was writing a novel then I would like to use that. Would you mind? There is no doubt that "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy". "most orthodox shrinks know nothing of the other side". Thumbs up.

 

Sterling said, "Demons and voices are "makyo"

 

Thanks for the reminder.

Edited Monday at 08:00 PM by Tommy

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Sounds like stuff that myths and legends are made from. "Thousands of years of work that protective beings have done". If I was writing a novel then I would like to use that. Would you mind? There is no doubt that "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy". "most orthodox shrinks know nothing of the other side". Thumbs up.

 

Sterling said, "Demons and voices are "makyo"

 

Thanks for the reminder.

 

good luck when your time comes...

[SodaChanh]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

I'd say that besides types of illusions that may only be in our heads or that might be downplayed or written off as only that, there are real beings that are predatory dark souls which are not written off so easily or just by philosophical thoughts.   Thus all the thousands of years of  work that protective beings have done and are doing, along with teachings and methods that have been used against such forces.

 

Btw, most orthodox shrinks know nothing of the other side...and also write off problem's related to it as just a mental or emotional delusions.

 

 

 

I was reminded by this 

 

 

You know constant wifi bombardment, mobile radiation, bad food, constant collective negativity also plays a role. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lairg]

6 hours ago, stirling said:

Demons and voices are "makyo":

 

I like to test propositions.  My ignorance often amazes me.  How could I believe such stupid things?  

 

I am with Shakespeare:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:10 AM by Lairg

[stirling]

12 minutes ago, Lairg said:

I like to test propositions.  My ignorance often amazes me.  How could I believe such stupid things?  

 

I am with Shakespeare:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

Did you read the supplied link? Yes, believing that they have any intrinsic reality would be a mistake, but denying their occasional appearance in consciousness would be a mistake. From the link:

 

Quote

"Makyō are the phenomena–visions, hallucinations, fantasies, revelations, illusory sensations–which one practicing zazen is apt to experience at a particular stage in his sitting. ...Never be tempted into thinking that these phenomena are real or that the visions themselves have any meaning. To have a beautiful vision of Buddha does not mean that you are any nearer becoming one yourself, any more than a dream of being a millionaire means you are any richer when you awake."

— Hakuun Yasutani, in Philip Kapleaus's The Three Pillars of Zen, pp. 42-44

 

Non-duality is a deeper level of reality than the duality of God/devil/angel and man. Testing IS important, but using other dualistic phenomena to determine what is "real" is a flawed process. The realization of the non-dual reality is a complete perspective shift - the litmus test of what is "real" afterward happens in comparison with that STILL VISIBLE realization.

[Lairg]

43 minutes ago, stirling said:

Testing IS important, but using other dualistic phenomena to determine what is "real" is a flawed process.

 

So my physical brain can never know

[stirling]

The science that pointed to the brain being where the experience of being originates is known to be flawed, and has been for many years, so yes. Here is a nice article on this topic:

 

https://tricycle.org/article/six-questions-b-alan-wallace/

 

...or, if you are more science minded:

 

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9490228/

 

-

 

Setting that aside for a moment - if you were asleep and based your reality on experiments done in your dream, your experiments MIGHT have some sort of seeming circular reality, but when you finally woke up you would dismiss them outright. The same goes here - it is entirely possible to "wake up" from the dream of duality and see that there is a deeper, more real level of reality that includes and suffuses the reality you already experience.

[SodaChanh]

Relationship to your parents could also be an issue. How is that going? 

[steve]

20 hours ago, stirling said:

 

@Cadcam, if you are continuing to experience anhedonia you should really be in contact with a mental health professional.

 

I agree, anonymous strangers online may not be the best resource under the circumstances.

[Tommy]

14 hours ago, steve said:

 

I agree, anonymous strangers online may not be the best resource under the circumstances.

Sometimes it takes a stranger to point out something is wrong.  It just takes a bigger/humble person to be able to accept good advice.

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Sometimes it takes a stranger to point out something is wrong

 

I tend to test before committing fully

 

[Lairg]

On 1/6/2026 at 12:38 PM, stirling said:

if you were asleep and based your reality on experiments done in your dream, your experiments MIGHT have some sort of seeming circular reality, but when you finally woke up you would dismiss them outright.

 

Usually I go back in time and step into the dream again and do experiments to test my hypotheses.  Sometimes I do that with a friend watching the scene in the dream.  

 

[Nungali]

On 1/6/2026 at 1:38 PM, stirling said:

The science that pointed to the brain being where the experience of being originates is known to be flawed, and has been for many years, so yes. Here is a nice article on this topic:

 

https://tricycle.org/article/six-questions-b-alan-wallace/

 

...or, if you are more science minded:

 

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9490228/

 

-

 

Setting that aside for a moment - if you were asleep and based your reality on experiments done in your dream, your experiments MIGHT have some sort of seeming circular reality, but when you finally woke up you would dismiss them outright. The same goes here - it is entirely possible to "wake up" from the dream of duality and see that there is a deeper, more real level of reality that includes and suffuses the reality you already experience.

 

 

Lairg probably doesn't though    . 

 

Dreams seem  connected to many  drives of the psyche , including desires . 

[Tommy]

8 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Usually I go back in time and step into the dream again and do experiments to test my hypotheses.  Sometimes I do that with a friend watching the scene in the dream.  

 

Wait, ... you go back in time? (can you really time travel?) And step into the dream again and do experiments to test your hypotheses?

Sometimes you do that with a friend watching the scene IN the dream? That is one heck of a friend to be able to watch the scene in your dream. Sorry, just about everything you said in that posts makes me wonder why I can't go back in time and have my friend watch me in my dreams. What is wrong with me??

 

Sterling said, "But when you finally woke up you would dismiss them outright." 

 

So time travel to the past isn't possible?? LOL

Edited 6 hours ago by Tommy

[old3bob]

 

Btw, there has been speculations about reincarnating into the past to correct past karma making for better outcomes down the line... (haven't come across that speculation here which happens to include some Bible verses (believe it or not Ripley) )

 

[Lairg]

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

me wonder why I can't go back in time

 

Of course you can.  Visualize this 3D timeline coming from behind you and extending out in front.  Just move your attention back along the timeline to the time of the dream and step into the energy field.

 

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

and have my friend watch me in my dreams.

 

Train a friend to do the timeline thing and get them to do it with you 

 

There is of course development of the ability to visualize.  I have had some years of visualizing so that that particular inner plane sense is somewhat developed.

Edited 1 hour ago by Lairg

[stirling]

14 hours ago, Lairg said:

Usually I go back in time and step into the dream again and do experiments to test my hypotheses.  Sometimes I do that with a friend watching the scene in the dream.  

 

I guess I'm not clear what you are proposing here, could you clarify?

[Lairg]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

reincarnating into the past to correct past karma making for better outcomes down the line.

 

It is not necessary to reincarnate to deal with some aspects of karma.  Go back on the 3D timeline to the appropriate time-place and change the relationships with the players.  Use heart light and forgive all participants, particularly oneself.

 

Then send heart light to the relevant Lords of Karma and ask them to release the karma as the lessons have been learned

 

I have watched various friends to that quite successfully.  They have been very pleased with the effects on their current relationships with those players

[stirling]

4 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Of course you can.  Visualize this 3D timeline coming from behind you and extending out in front.  Just move your attention back along the timeline to the time of the dream and step into the energy field.

 

This would be an act of imagination, is that correct?

 

4 minutes ago, Lairg said:

There is of course development of the ability to visualize.  I have had some years of visualizing so that that particular inner plane sense is somewhat developed.

 

By "inner plane" we are again talking about imagination, correct?

[Lairg]

1 minute ago, stirling said:

This would be an act of imagination, is that correct?

 

An act of imaging 

 

2 minutes ago, stirling said:

By "inner plane" we are again talking about imagination

 

Inner planes progressively are emotional, mental, heart, spiritual will, ....   The human can develop sense organs on every plane and subplane.  It takes practice to accumulate the substance and form it into sense organs - just as you did as a baby on the physical plane

 

Use imagery and intent 

 

[Nungali]

 

35 minutes ago, Lairg said:

An act of imaging 

 

An 'act of imaging'  is    imagination .

 

35 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Inner planes progressively are emotional, mental, heart, spiritual will, ....   The human can develop sense organs on every plane and subplane.  It takes practice to accumulate the substance and form it into sense organs - just as you did as a baby on the physical plane

 

Use imagery and intent 

 

yeah .... thats actually what  your imagination  is  .  Intentional use of imagery . 

 

Thats how 'astral'  travel  works  ;  

 

and it isnt just my opinion on that  ; 

 

''   5 :    ....   

2. Let him imagine his own figure (preferably robed in the proper magical garments and armed with the proper magical weapons) as enveloping his physical body, or standing near to and in front of him.

3. Let him then transfer the seat of his consciousness to that imagined figure; so that it may seem to him that he is seeing with its eyes, and hearing with its ears.

This will usually be the great difficulty of the operation.

4. Let him then cause that imagined figure to rise in the air to a great height above the earth.

5. Let him then stop and look about him. (It is sometimes difficult to open the eyes.)

6. Probably he will see figures approaching him, or become conscious of a landscape. .......  ''

 

https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib6

[old3bob]

well heck don't forget we are "created in the image of God"

 

As for duality it is connected to non-duality,  or the manifest is connected to the unmanifest, so who decides what is real and not real if such is accepted?  (or where reality or non-reality begins and ends)

Many have trouble with the term "God" since much of mankind has created God in their image.