Chaos Magic

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

Maybe it’s a generational thing - I was aware of chaos theory for at least a decade before Jurassic park.

 

Same here .... and I never went to see the movie either !   I have seen shorts on TV advertising it but never knew of the Chaos theory in it until this thread . 

[Nungali]

36 minutes ago, Apech said:

Is there any chance we can discuss chaos magic?

 

Does anyone have anything intelligent to say about it?

 

Yes .   We could focus   on this part of the definition  ;  '' the belief that belief itself is a tool to manipulate reality and that one can shift beliefs as needed to achieve goals. '

 

So, I assume , the  ritual system and 'paraphernalia '  of magick is geared towards cultural belief  ( hence different types of magick ;   from modern western, to 'Javanese'  to  Buddhist , etc . ) and relies on a stong 'set' in the psyche - which is why a lot of older western magick is in the 'theater ' of Christianity  (or its opposite , ie, 'demon based ' or 'sourced' ) .  That is , in this situation , it is firmly entrenched in the psyche and the belief system .

 

So can  ( and how can one  )  change or ;shift'  belief systems so as to have them so firmly entrenched in the psyche that thay have the same 'impact '  .   I doubt this part .  However , the issue of belief systems  'manipulating ' realty seems better explained by 'Daimonic Reality Theory'   ( ex Harpur ) seems more realistic .

 

I 'operate' sort of like that , but my belief systems only 'validly ' changed  ( ie, changed to a deep enough influence that they did 'manipulate' reality , after evidence accretion   -    ie . if you try something and get the same result many times , then its easier for the belief to become entrenched  in the psyche to be effective . 

 

Also it broaches the whole idea of inner Vs outer influence . 

 

What are your thoughts on that ? 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Yes .   We could focus   on this part of the definition  ;  '' the belief that belief itself is a tool to manipulate reality and that one can shift beliefs as needed to achieve goals. '

 

That is interesting.  Although one could question the idea of deliberate rather than inspired belief, to the extent that the person doing the operation must struggle to convince themself that they really believe something they have deliberately set up.  However you could argue that all belief is like this, it is an act of will, a choice to believe.  That this initial belief may be reinforced by pragmatic testing such that, if the results work for you, your confidence and thus belief strengthens as you go.

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

So, I assume , the  ritual system and 'paraphernalia '  of magick is geared towards cultural belief  ( hence different types of magick ;   from modern western, to 'Javanese'  to  Buddhist , etc . ) and relies on a stong 'set' in the psyche - which is why a lot of older western magick is in the 'theater ' of Christianity  (or its opposite , ie, 'demon based ' or 'sourced' ) .  That is , in this situation , it is firmly entrenched in the psyche and the belief system .

 

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

So can  ( and how can one  )  change or ;shift'  belief systems so as to have them so firmly entrenched in the psyche that thay have the same 'impact '  .   I doubt this part .  However , the issue of belief systems  'manipulating ' realty seems better explained by 'Daimonic Reality Theory'   ( ex Harpur ) seems more realistic .

 

 

I can see belief shaping reality and as I suggested above perhaps this is what we always do (?)

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

I 'operate' sort of like that , but my belief systems only 'validly ' changed  ( ie, changed to a deep enough influence that they did 'manipulate' reality , after evidence accretion   -    ie . if you try something and get the same result many times , then its easier for the belief to become entrenched  in the psyche to be effective . 

 

Also it broaches the whole idea of inner Vs outer influence . 

 

What are your thoughts on that ? 

I think that knowledge is hermeneutical in that it is about how we interpret reality to ourselves.  So that two things may operate together.  If we practice trial and error pragmatism then faith and confidence come from a kind of higher empiricism.  When I was young I was kind of obsessed with this idea … that it must work… be effective and not just philosophical or religious.  But I think also that for instance if there is a HGA then this must operate from the beginning.  In other words a higher power guides your hand even if you know it not.  So for high magic it is more like revealing the truth rather than manufacturing it.  You may think you are inventing beliefs without being fully conscious of what it is that attracts you to them in the first place if you see what I mean.