Jesus and the Ironic Nature of Victory and Defeat

[Sanity Check]

 

Jesus was crucified on a wooden cross.

 

Christians wear crucifixes in remembrance of this great victory.

 

But how does that work? How is the Son of God being crucified a victory for christians?

 

Part of the answer to this question may have been uncovered by archaeologists digging through the remains of ancient roman cities. While examining the contents of ancient roman trash, archaeologists were horrified to discover large numbers of human remains. Not in scattered or isolated incidents. But rather as if the practice of disposing of human corpses in trash were the set standard for ancient roman society.

 

While the human remains found at trash sites may have belonged exclusively to slaves. This reflects one of the most underrated and unappreciated aspects to how Christ's fate is a victory. In a way that can be measured and quantified via empirical methods. 

 

Prior to Jesus the standard for society was human life having no value. There was no thought towards helping the poor or the needy. Indifference and apathy towards the downtrodden were standard fare.

 

One of the main driving forces behind the spread of christianity was its invention of elaborate welfare programs for the poor and needy. Christianity treated people as if their lives were precious and had value. Even if they were poor or sick. This was a revolutionary and mind blowing concept for its time, fueling the spread of christianity across the world.

 

Thanks to this, we all spectacularly benefit from the christian moral framework greatly elevating standards of justice, life and prosperity. A great victory not only for christians but for all. 

 

Of course, none of this happens without the Crucifixion.

 

One of the key points to note here is forces of evil crucifying Jesus carries a massive net effect of making life significantly harder for themselves.

 

Over the past 2,000 years since the Crucifixion cases of war, slavery, genocide significantly decreased. Prior to the Crucifixion Lot could not find 10 moral people living in Sodom. After the Crucifixion the number and proportion of moral people in the world increased substantially. The number of moral people per capita today is much higher than in the era of Sodom. This is reflected by homicide, crime and violence rates per capita hovering at all time lows pre COVID.

 

If a price tag were attached to crucifying Jesus the cost would be unaffordably expensive for team evil. So overwhelmingly expensive that the smart move is to NOT crucify Jesus and spend the day listening to Taylor Swift albums instead. It is a mistake to crucify people under circumstances where the net effect will be shifting the world in an opposite direction than intended. This is why christians wear crucifixes as symbols of victory rather than defeat. Even if they themselves do not comprehend the specific circumstances behind it.

 

In observing evil, their quest is to diminish the number of moral people in the world, to reshape the world in their own image. 

 

But if crucifying Jesus multiplied morality & multiplied the number of moral people in the world. Would targeting and killing other good and moral christians carry a similar net effect?

 

Therefore, if evil is to have a chance of victory against forces of good, evil must restrain itself from crucifying Jesus and those like Him.

 

 

 

 

Give me feedback please.

 

[Lairg]

Apparently there have been 16 crucified saviors.  Perhaps it takes a while to get it right.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Sixteen_Crucified_Saviors

[Nungali]

Not to forget 'Our Master '  Mansur el Hallaj  ; 

 

 

Arguments for a stake: 

The Greek word stauros primarily means an upright stake or pole. Another word, xylon, is used synonymously and means "wood," "stake," or "tree". Some argue this means Jesus died on a single upright pole, citing that some early sources use these words in their basic meaning of a stake

 

         

[Nungali]

 then again , some suggest that the idea of Jesus at the stake  refers to the last supper 

 

 

[old3bob]

 

surely you are not forgetting the subtle and not subtle examples throughout the past couple of thousand years of how evil has often co-opted Christianity for its purposes? ....(and which Jesus saw coming way ahead of time)

 

 

[Jadespear]

...well - there are different interpretations or "stories" about the death of Jesus... some people cite sources that say Jesus in fact was never crucified, but Judas was.  Anyway you slice it - Christianity was a religion that combined symbols/stories/enculturation from other pre-existing ones and concurrent ones at the time of its proliferation by the Roman Empire.  Anyway - the symbol of the cross has been observed throughout many religions across history.  All of them - basically revere the symbol as a representation of balance.  Christianity basically appropriated the symbol to be one of "sacrifice"...because the story goes that Jesus sacrificed himself for the greater good.  That story is actually lifted form the Egyptian myth of Horus, having to sacrifice himself... which dates all the way back to sun worshippers witnessing the natural movements of the sun during the winter solstice...  which lasts 3 days.  Hence the whole sacrifice of the sun and 3 day time frame of resurrection.  

 

Western magic sources use the symbol of the cross as balance and interconnectedness.  The Celts also used it in the same way. 

 

Christianity isn't really a good place to find truth...as it was completely made to subdue people into extortion for political gain.  Some of it is able to be learned from, like the book of proverbs, the book of genesis, and the sayings of Jesus at times...  but the dogma of it - is really confusing and mostly worthless in the pursuit of truth.  

[Nungali]

Even Proverbs and Genesis  are not 'original'  ;  

 

 '' The Proverbs of Solomon section, chapters 1–9, was probably the last to be composed in the Persian or Hellenistic periods. This section has parallels to prior cuneiform writings.^[21] The second, chapters 10–22:16, carries the superscription "the proverbs of Solomon", which may have encouraged its inclusion in the Hebrew canon. The third unit, 22:17–24:22, is headed "bend your ear and hear the words of the wise". A large part of this section is a recasting of a second-millennium BCE Egyptian work, the Instruction of Amenemope, and may have reached the Hebrew author(s) through an Aramaic translation .... The ”wisdom” genre was widespread throughout the ancient Near East, and reading Proverbs alongside the examples recovered from Egypt and Mesopotamia reveals the common ground shared by international wisdom . ''

 

''  The pre-Judaism sources for Genesis are believed by scholars to be ancient oral and written traditions that were later compiled and edited, with significant influences from Mesopotamian myths like the Enuma Elish and the Atra-Hasis epic . ''

 

It was all put together  around 500 BC  and then back dated and infilled  to claim some ancient Empire and significance  going back to approx 3000 BC .   very successfully, I might add ;  it gave birth to the Jewish religion and Christianity and Islam and was believed to outline ancient history up until the late 1800s  .

 

Since then we have discovered and learnt to translate the real documents from those times and Empires ... and NONE of them notices or even mentions a great Jewish Empire , King Solomon, a Jewish  literary tradition , etc .   So although they got 'busted '  after 1900  in an ever increasing expose ..... it still has a vast  hold on human consciousness and is still seen in many cases as the example to hold up when comparing many other  modern things to it . 

[Sanity Check]

9 hours ago, Jadespear said:

...well - there are different interpretations or "stories" about the death of Jesus... some people cite sources that say Jesus in fact was never crucified, but Judas was.  Anyway you slice it - Christianity was a religion that combined symbols/stories/enculturation from other pre-existing ones and concurrent ones at the time of its proliferation by the Roman Empire.  Anyway - the symbol of the cross has been observed throughout many religions across history.  All of them - basically revere the symbol as a representation of balance.  Christianity basically appropriated the symbol to be one of "sacrifice"...because the story goes that Jesus sacrificed himself for the greater good.  That story is actually lifted form the Egyptian myth of Horus, having to sacrifice himself... which dates all the way back to sun worshippers witnessing the natural movements of the sun during the winter solstice...  which lasts 3 days.  Hence the whole sacrifice of the sun and 3 day time frame of resurrection.  

 

Western magic sources use the symbol of the cross as balance and interconnectedness.  The Celts also used it in the same way. 

 

Christianity isn't really a good place to find truth...as it was completely made to subdue people into extortion for political gain.  Some of it is able to be learned from, like the book of proverbs, the book of genesis, and the sayings of Jesus at times...  but the dogma of it - is really confusing and mostly worthless in the pursuit of truth.  

 

 

https://perell.com/essay/why-youre-christian/

 

Above is an essay published by an atheist.

 

I personally consider it the smartest thing an atheist has ever said.

 

Good reading.

[Cobie]

 

10 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

https://perell.com/essay/why-youre-christian/

Yes I agree that the Western mainstream notion of human rights is indeed a byproduct of Christianity.
E.g. read up on the history of China; imo absolutely appalling the treatment of women and children.
I posted about it before, so will leave it at this.

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Cobie

[Cobie]

It came as a shock to me to get to know my Chinese teacher who came from Beijing as an adult. She said things like, ‘why do Dutch people say, “I’m happy for you?”, looking flabbergasted. She just did not understand the concept of it. 

 

Edited 27 minutes ago by Cobie