Alchemy, is it real ??

[Sanity Check]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Oh ?  My health ?  lets re run this in case you were not following yourself .  

 

Our own home grown Homer here , first posts some  comment about 'guessing ' what alchemy is .  

 

I observe people here dont seem to want to know what it is  or there is ignorance about what it is . 

 

And then Homer pipes up and says  it is a sign of intelligence  not to comment if you dont know what it is ..... but he just commented  on what it was without knowing the definition . 

 

I never seen any one 'step in it '  so efficiently !   And you dont even seem to realise  when you step in it .

 

  

 

And when its pointed out he moans I am being  'unnecessarily negative '         

 

Dude !  .... I mean ....  ''Bruh ''  ... you crack me up  !  

 

.

 

 

I only commented on eastern alchemy.

 

Not eastern internal alchemy.

 

So nah.

[Nungali]

''   I guess I might say western alchemy is Sir Isaac Newton exposing himself to toxic levels of mercury attempting to refine a philosopher's stone (elixir). '' 

 

Thats   ^   you '' Bruh ''  

 

Now both feet are in it      

 

 

[Nungali]

... if you ever go to court 

 

do not say anything ! 

 

get a lawyer ! 

[Sanity Check]

This guy so unnecessarily negative.

 

 

[Nungali]

So ,   pointing out what YOU said is being 'unnecessarily negative ' ? 

 

 

Keep em coming big fella ! 

[Antares]

On 09.09.2025 at 8:43 AM, Neirong said:

A lot of people, I would say certainly not a minority, are in cultivation and "esoteric practices" purely for their egos.
That feeling of being or thinking yourself to be special, despite any internal flaws. You could be obese, sitting on a couch drinking beer all day, but because you are a member of a "prominent" internal arts school, and realized the "truth" of enlightenment, you are still the chosen one. No need to change yourself at all. Your Dao accepts all imperfection. Your bald, obese, tattooed all over, cigar-smoking, drug addict teacher, who is also a superpowerful secret martial arts master (that never once fought in his life) and hidden sage with wisdom pearls putting bs generator to shame, is once again proving it for you.

Yeah, it is like here the guy has ingested the bottle of Elixir and now ready to flow

 

[Antares]

On 09.09.2025 at 7:37 AM, Forestgreen said:

The worst thing when comparing traditions is that we have to understand how terms are defined in that tradition. Which is funny, there was just some posts about how definitions of terms were a bad thing. 😁

But we are in "Daosit discussion" section of TDB. Not sure if you are aware of it. So, if I am wrong then just try to point out where exatly, and which part of you dying at which stage of real Alchemy. I have some experience of this sort but it was some Ego produced feeling of "dying" and I think it was some entity leaving my energy field. In such a case they can produce fear that this you who is dying and losing control.

Edited Friday at 11:26 AM by Antares

[Forestgreen]

3 hours ago, Antares said:

But we are in "Daosit discussion" section of TDB. Not sure if you are aware of it.

Well, I am aware of it. 

And if your point is that in the daoist section, people making comparison with other (dis)similar methods could be more open to the differences, and that their methods will be compared to the daoist methods,  I'm with you.

[Antares]

1 hour ago, Forestgreen said:

And if your point is that in the daoist section, people making comparison with other (dis)similar methods could be more open to the differences, and that their methods will be compared to the daoist methods,  I'm with you.

Well, only if these people can explain what is the pill in both traditions then it makes sense, otherwise it is just idle talking

[Forestgreen]

Does neidan make sense, until someone tells you what stuff really means?

[ChiDragon]

Neidan is an internal method, I believe it works if practiced properly. It is only a ancient Taoist concept. If one understand the concept and practiced, one will be benefited. Otherwise, one may know the concept but do not understand it will not be benefited.

[Antares]

11 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Neidan is an internal method, I believe it works if practiced properly.

Do you practice it? How do you understand it? How to produce the pill?

[Antares]

Quote

You could be obese, sitting on a couch drinking beer all day, but because you are a member of a "prominent" internal arts school, and realized the "truth" of enlightenment, you are still the chosen one.

Yes, this is the most difficult part of the entire alchemical process - one must hold the virtuous lifestyle preventing the leakages.

And of course,

11 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

If one understand the concept and practiced, one will be benefited.

 

[SodaChanh]

The pill is the Golden Elixir which is your true nature. 

 

Reality without any self, just pure abiding in awareness. 

[Antares]

1 hour ago, SodaChanh said:

The pill is the Golden Elixir which is your true nature. 

Liu- Yiming said it? 

[SodaChanh]

2 hours ago, Antares said:

Liu- Yiming said it? 

 

Yes 

 

Quote

Human beings receive this Golden Elixir from Heaven. . . . Golden Elixir is another name for one's fundamental nature, formed out of primeval inchoateness (huncheng, a term derived from the Daode jing). There is no other Golden Elixir outside one's fundamental nature. Every human being has this Golden Elixir complete in himself: it is entirely realized in everybody. It is neither more in a sage, nor less in an ordinary person. It is the seed of Immortals and Buddhas, and the root of worthies and sages. (Wuzhen zhizhi, chapter 1)

 

[Antares]

3 hours ago, SodaChanh said:

Yes 

 

Quote

Liu Yiming (1734–1821) (刘一明) was a Chinese Taoist master, thinker, and writer. He was one of the main representatives of Taoist Internal Alchemy, or Neidan. He was an 11th-generation master of one of the northern branches of the Longmen 龍門 (Dragon Gate) lineage, and the author of a large number of works that illustrate his views on both Taoism and Neidan.

 

[ChiDragon]

12 hours ago, Antares said:

Do you practice it? How do you understand it? How to produce the pill?

Yes, Neidan is an internal practice. It is only a ancient Taoist concept. The ancient Taoists practiced by performing zazen or nowadays people called meditation. Meditation was not just sitting in a lotus position and do nothing. They were sitting and performing slow and deep breathing. The assumption was, while doing the deep breathing, there were three imaginary elements inside the LDT(abdomen) are interacting with each other to keep the body function. They assumed the three elements were 精氣神(jin chi shen). These three elements interacted with each other and the cycle repeats itself. By performing deep breathing, it was assumed that the breath was to provide the fuel to heat these three elements in the LDT. 

The idea of alchemy was originated from baking an external elixor in a cauldron. It was known as external elixor or waidan(外丹).  The direct translation for 外丹 is external pill. The external alchemy was used some poisonous elements such as mercury, lead, cinnabar and etc. After the pill was made, the Taoist practitioners took it and died from poisoning. Hence, they decided to go to the internal method instead. 

The idea of the internal method was to bake an imaginary pill inside the body. Assuming that the three elements mentioned above are inside the body already. It was assumed that the LDT(abdomen) is the cauldron. To provide the fuel for heating the three elements was by performing deep breathing. By performing deep breathing, they had discovered that the energy level was increased tremendously. Therefor, it was assumed that the internal alchemy method works and passed on down from generation to generation. 

I was curious about the internal neidan method for sometime. I had been investigating how is related to modern science. I have discovered that the modern science do support the internal alchemy by the cell respiration theory. It gives me a more precise explanation about how the energy level was increased in the body.

The final question was how the pill was produced? The pill was an imagery pill. It was only in the mind of the ancient Taoists by performing the above method to make the body healthier for longevity. BTW The internal alchemy method only help a person live longer instead of becoming an immortal. 

This is my two cents worth of contribution to the thread! Peace!

[Antares]

10 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

BTW The internal alchemy method only help a person live longer instead of becoming an immortal. 

There is yangshengong for longevity. Neidan goal is different

10 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

It was assumed that the LDT(abdomen) is the cauldron. To provide the fuel for heating the three elements was by performing deep breathing

Does LDT exist only on physical level inside the abdomen? What about some Daoist texts where Daoist teachers wrote that there is smth that is "no inside nor outside"? 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

Does LDT exist only on physical level inside the abdomen? What about some Daoist texts where Daoist teachers wrote that there is smth that is "no inside nor outside"? 

The former is yes, but the latter, I need to know who wrote that and read the original text to answer. Thanks!

[Antares]

At the moment I have found this one

Quote

The One cavity is the root of the void. It has neither shape nor form. When the original vapor emerges, the cavity appears; when circulation is at rest, the cavity disappears. The One cavity is the place where the sacred is hidden. It is the altar of life, and it has many names—the Palace of the Dragon

This is exсerpt from "hui-ming ching" in  translation by Eva Wong. So if you say this is smth that exists only on physical level it must have form and shape

[ChiDragon]

7 hours ago, Antares said:

This is exсerpt from "hui-ming ching" in  translation by Eva Wong. So if you say this is smth that exists only on physical level it must have form and shape

I don't think the above you have mentioned was referring to the LDT. It seems it is referring to the void in describing the three treasures: Jing, chi, shen, and the void. Something like this, Jing transform into chi, chi transform into shen, and shen transform into the void. However, I could never figure out what that meant! 

Edited 18 minutes ago by ChiDragon