It is right in front of you!

[stirling]

Quote

It is right in front of you! - Huang Po, Sixth Zen Patriarch

 

Whatever practice you are doing, cherishing, holding out as THE way in... isn't. What you are looking isn't the words, or the movements, the visualizations, the breath... any "thing". What you are looking for is what is in between all of those "things". 

 

Quote

1. Thirty spokes unite in one hub; 
2. It is precisely where there is nothing, that we find the usefulness of the wheel. 
3. We fire clay and make vessels; 
4. It is precisely where there's no substance, that we find the usefulness of clay pots. 
5. We chisel out doors and windows; 
6. It is precisely in these empty spaces, that we find the usefulness of the room. 
7. Therefore, we regard having something as beneficial; 
8. But having nothing as useful. - Dao De Jing, Chapter 11 (Henricks)

 

What you are seeking requires no "work" or "doing". I requires learning to stop doing.

[Cobie]

Lol, I fear this is going to be a very short thread indeed. When you’re right you’re right. Done and dusted. 
 

 

[Mark Foote]

6 hours ago, stirling said:

 

It requires learning to stop doing.
 

 

Tell 'em to stop, stirling--make 'em stop!  

 

The Master said to me: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you–begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood.
 

By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain to it. They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas.

("The Zen Teaching of Huang Po On the Transmission of Mind", tr. John Blofeld, Part One)

 

Edited Friday at 11:02 PM by Mark Foote

[steve]

On 7/18/2025 at 12:46 PM, Cobie said:

Lol, I fear this is going to be a very short thread indeed. When you’re right you’re right. Done and dusted. 
 

 

 

A short thread... about emptiness/Source/Self/Dao/whatever.... on DaoBums....

 

Yeah, right

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 7/18/2025 at 9:02 AM, stirling said:

Whatever practice you are doing, cherishing, holding out as THE way in... isn't. What you are looking isn't the words, or the movements, the visualizations, the breath... any "thing". What you are looking for is what is in between all of those "things". 

What you are seeking requires no "work" or "doing". I requires learning to stop doing.

 

a. learning is itself a form of doing

b. learning is more spinning in the mind

c. practices are useful in cultivating stillness

 

 

[steve]

On 7/18/2025 at 12:02 PM, stirling said:

 

Whatever practice you are doing, cherishing, holding out as THE way in... isn't. What you are looking isn't the words, or the movements, the visualizations, the breath... any "thing". What you are looking for is what is in between all of those "things". 

 

 

What you are seeking requires no "work" or "doing". I requires learning to stop doing.

 

It can be a lot of work to try to do nothing!

And when we finally see what @stirling so expertly and consistently points towards, we see how much wasted effort we've expended.

It's comical in retrospect but frustrating and very serious when we're in the thick of it.

I like how Peter Fenner once put it, 'if we didn't do what we didn't need to do, we wouldn't know we didn't need to do it.'

But if we can truly trust in opening and letting everything be just as it is for a moment, we can shortcut the process considerably.

 

How unfamiliar it can be to spend much time just feeling stillness, hearing silence, embracing openness, doing nothing at all, just leaving everything as it is. What a waste of time, it seems, in such a materialistic and productivity based culture.

It's very simple but not very easy because we are so familiar with, even addicted to, the movement, the sound, the content and activity of the mind.

We are so primed for transactional relationship that anything else seems like a failure.

It seems so foreign to think the ultimate method is.... doing nothing at all. 

But that nothing embraces everything, far more than our limited intellect can readily access or appreciate. 

 

I was once talking with a friend at a campfire about these things and he was going on and on, waxing philosophical about the nature of this and that. Something possessed me to break this loop of logic and I spontaneously let out a loud shriek. He looked at me shocked, as was I, and I simply held his gaze. Within a second or two, in the silence that followed the interruption, I could see the dawning of recognition on his face and we both broke into laughter, then just sat together in silence. 

It was pretty cool. Never did that before or since.

Sometimes that stuff just comes out at the right time. 

[stirling]

28 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

a. learning is itself a form of doing

b. learning is more spinning in the mind

c. practices are useful in cultivating stillness

 

Good catch! Unlearning, or letting doing fall away might be more accurate. 

[Cobie]

 

1 hour ago, steve said:

… Yeah, right

 

Lol, I spoke too early.  Good to see ‘steve’ back, no doubt still ‘ben way’ [or as I read it, 本道 (ben3 dao4) truth]

 

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Cobie

[old3bob]

Hello Steve,

Part of what you posted:

"I was once talking with a friend at a campfire about these things and he was going on and on, waxing philosophical about the nature of this and that. Something possessed me to break this loop of logic and I spontaneously let out a loud shriek. He looked at me shocked, as was I, and I simply held his gaze. Within a second or two, in the silence that followed the interruption, I could see the dawning of recognition on his face and we both broke into laughter, then just sat together in silence. 

It was pretty cool. Never did that before or since.   Sometimes that stuff just comes out at the right time." 

 

a friend and I were also once talking about philosophical stuff and he reflected saying,  "I'm going to try the eternity trip someday" we then looked at each other for a second or two and chuckled ;-)

[old3bob]

 

variation on the OP,  or right under your nose...

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 7/18/2025 at 9:02 AM, stirling said:

What you are seeking requires no "work" or "doing". 

 

Be still and know that I AM God.

   ---Tehillim 46:11

 

The Hebrew word   רָפָה  "rapha" [the Psalms were written in Hebrew] 

can mean "be still" and it can also mean "cease striving"

Other meanings are "be relaxed" and "heal"

As in the archangel Raphael

 

Edited 22 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[Cobie]

… 敚[糸禾]，  … Silent and still,
独立而不亥，it stands on its own and does not change. 
… 字之曰道。 … We refer to it as the Dao.  (DDJ ch. 25 , Henricks)
 

Edited 22 hours ago by Cobie

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, steve said:

 

A short thread... about emptiness/Source/Self/Dao/whatever.... on DaoBums....

 

Yeah, right

 

 

 

 

Wait up  ! 

 

" Steve on the Internet '  is back ?  

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, steve said:

 

It can be a lot of work to try to do nothing!

And when we finally see what @stirling so expertly and consistently points towards, we see how much wasted effort we've expended.

It's comical in retrospect but frustrating and very serious when we're in the thick of it.

I like how Peter Fenner once put it, 'if we didn't do what we didn't need to do, we wouldn't know we didn't need to do it.'

But if we can truly trust in opening and letting everything be just as it is for a moment, we can shortcut the process considerably.

 

How unfamiliar it can be to spend much time just feeling stillness, hearing silence, embracing openness, doing nothing at all, just leaving everything as it is. What a waste of time, it seems, in such a materialistic and productivity based culture.

It's very simple but not very easy because we are so familiar with, even addicted to, the movement, the sound, the content and activity of the mind.

We are so primed for transactional relationship that anything else seems like a failure.

It seems so foreign to think the ultimate method is.... doing nothing at all. 

But that nothing embraces everything, far more than our limited intellect can readily access or appreciate. 

 

I was once talking with a friend at a campfire about these things and he was going on and on, waxing philosophical about the nature of this and that. Something possessed me to break this loop of logic and I spontaneously let out a loud shriek. He looked at me shocked, as was I, and I simply held his gaze. Within a second or two, in the silence that followed the interruption, I could see the dawning of recognition on his face and we both broke into laughter, then just sat together in silence. 

It was pretty cool. Never did that before or since.

Sometimes that stuff just comes out at the right time. 

 

Love it !  

 

around the camp fire ... eventually , one  Aboriginal chap to another  ;  "Them whitefellahs talk a lot, don't they ."  

 

  

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

Lol, I spoke too early.  Good to see ‘steve’ back, no doubt still ‘ben way’ [or as I read it, 本道 (ben3 dao4) truth]

 

 

 

 

Ohhhhh ... that's where he has been  !      'ben away '     

 

Spoiler

A man is sitting on the  front step  outside having an early morning ciggy . 

 

The garbage truck comes down the street 

 

Garbo ;  " Where's ya bin ? "

 

Man ; " Ohhhhhh  ..........   bin away ." 

 

Garbo ;  " Noooo ... where is ya wheelie bin ? "

 

Man;  " Ohhhh .... okay then  ..... I   got in some twouble ... and I weally bin in jail   ."