Nungali Posted Tuesday at 11:31 PM 7 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said: those are really good points (post just above). Also my understanding or interpretation of an element from the "outside" of a path, can be very different (or way off base) from what that element means or how it is used "inside" the path. Context determines meaning. When i lift it out of one context and plug it into another context there is typically a distortion. This is compounded even more when there are translations across a different language because that too changes the meaning. Just as there are words and meanings and concepts which don't even exist in some languages, so too there are elements in a path that do not exist in other paths. And sacred scripture by nature carries multiple meanings for a single word or element or teaching. By its vary nature there is never just a single or simple meaning, but there are stacked meanings (which are often contradictory) which intentionally gives a richness and depth. Also for the same passage, it may mean something very different to me when i first read it than when i read it one or two or ten years later. My own view (and how I experience it) is that sacred texts (holy books) carry and deliver a transmission to the reader. All books do this to a certain extent, but it can be more pronounced for sacred texts due to the subject matter. . I have found that even with the simplest of (sacred) texts - it seems to be part of the 'qualification' - meaning that a 'good ' text should be .... sort of .... 'encoded' to reveal deeper knowledge the more you study it . I experienced the same in a form ( martial arts ) , one of the supposed;ly simplest of forms teacher said was the main one and held the root of all other forms in simplicity . I doubted that and thought he was just 'sayin stuff' ... 15 years later , I am still finding new and revealing things within it ! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigSkyDiamond Posted Wednesday at 04:01 AM (edited) 4 hours ago, Nungali said: besides ... we all know that women are more advanced that is not what i said. The teaching i mentioned was that in a religious context it is taught that women (in general) are closer to Divintiy than men are, and that it comes easier for women, it is more natural for women. And men have more work to do and farther to go to reach the level that women are already at. That is not saying that women are more advanced. an anlogy might be for instance men by nature have greater upper body strength than women do. For women to build upper body strength they have more work to do and farther to go, to reach a level that men already are at. But that does not mean that men are more advanced. Just that they have greater upper body strength. Edited Wednesday at 04:10 AM by BigSkyDiamond Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted Wednesday at 05:28 AM 13 hours ago, Sahaja said: I had a teacher once that said the map is not the territory. I think what he meant was there was risk in getting too reliant on maps of reality because they are not the same as reality. The maps can give you a useful framework but your direct experience will show you things you didn’t see on the map, some real some not real. Your success or failure in traversing this ground will be determined by your discernment (and grace) It’s clear to me when I look at the various maps you laid out that they have some commonalities and some differences. The commonalities may be due to a shared underlying reality related to the nature of spirit/divinity and to the nature of human beings. There are also differences that are significant that aren’t always clear from just a cursory reading. For example what is meant by the name “Shiva”. I am not a big fan of comparisons across traditions as they tend to gloss over the depths/nuances of these differences in favor of the commonalities. This can result in both dilution in the richness of individual traditions and unnecessary tensions/conflicts over defense of their perceived uniqueness. Daoists talk about this issue as one intrinsic to “naming things”. I’m not comparing traditions as a whole, nor minutely examining what a term means, I’m merely demonstrating the ‘higher dualities’ that are suggested by these terms shiva/shakti, true yin/true yang etc. For me if a tradition names these higher dualities this is of interest, like a heads up, I might be more inclined to sample their literature, but only to hear a broad view of expressions on this very specific topic. Sometimes a description really hits home for me, for instance I hadn’t realised shiva was the destroyer until this thread, in fact it was only after the word destroy in my post was rejected by someone that I looked it up, and of course I fully concur. In turn this may lead me to look into shiva a bit more, maybe not, but it’s certainly of interest to me. This is how an inner directed path works, I step, and then look around to see if others have walked this way. 13 hours ago, Sahaja said: I’ve used different maps from different traditions at different points of my life depending on what teacher I was learning from - so they aren’t mine, I am just borrowing them from the teacher to help me on the journey. However the writings of the proto Daoists like Zhuangzhi , Liezi and the Nei Yeh have held a particular resonance for me. Their sense of humor and humility about the nature of humans I find continually refreshing and insightful. Yes there’s some good stuff there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Wednesday at 06:16 AM 1 hour ago, BigSkyDiamond said: that is not what i said. No , and I wasn't claiming you did say it , it was in relation to me thinking that " women are closer to Divintiy than men are " Thats what you said - I was agreeing .... they are more advanced towards divinity with a hint that I think they are more advanced in lots of other areas too .... like the comments I made about the stages of life for a man . 1 hour ago, BigSkyDiamond said: The teaching i mentioned was that in a religious context it is taught that women (in general) are closer to Divintiy than men are, and that it comes easier for women, it is more natural for women. And men have more work to do and farther to go to reach the level that women are already at. That is not saying that women are more advanced. Got it . - see above . I am not saying it applies to ALL women either . However I will openly admit bias . I been around a long time and I cant say the male sex has impressed me that much . .... its not only women they try to oppress though ya know - I have fought against it most of my life . Sure women do it to , but I am going on my own experience and what I have learned - bearing in mind I been around a long time , I have worked with refugee relocation , sometimes ex torture victims , in a hospital dealing with accidents , violent crimes , injuries and also involved in women's shelter support . So I could have a biased view on it , I'll admit that . But the stats seem to indicate something as well . I could say a lot more on that but maybe its too far off topic . On another level I have heard sort of similar to what you said about men being ... well ... 'the priests ' and the women having a different relationship . In another tradition that has both men and women as 'clergy' , Ie Priest and Priestess , some women, ( from outside the ritual ) commented it was a bit sexist , the priest is doing all this stuff and incantations and actions and rituals while the priestess is just sitting there holding stuff for him . But then one of the priestesses commented 'You think we are doing nothing ? You cant imagine what is going on for me when I am doing that , the energies ! I have to ...... ( do this and that ) all these people are here with their different energy and ... etc . ' 1 hour ago, BigSkyDiamond said: an anlogy might be for instance men by nature have greater upper body strength than women do. For women to build upper body strength they have more work to do and farther to go, to reach a level that men already are at. But that does not mean that men are more advanced. Just that they have greater upper body strength. From my perspective , I much prefer to teach women aikido , they get it a lot easier than most men _ if you understand how Aikido works you will known why ...... it can easily peasily deal with big man upper body strength . A lot of guys I taught ... a lot of 'unlearning' was required . And at least on one occasion , I saw a woman master it , instantly after a few minutes instruction - for a moment She was very thin and slight , two big burly random guys could not lift her up , the look on their faces ! But then she 'lost it ' ( the right 'state ' and energy flow ) and then up she went - easily .... she had a very surprised look on her face as well - what just happened then ! ? Do you do any sort of Qigong or similar practice ? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted Wednesday at 08:08 AM (edited) destroyer does have some strong connotations, I'd say another way to get a handle on the idea is a "return" (as spoken of in the T.T.C. with the "One" said to be the first born), thus the manifest sprang forth or transformed from the Tao and the manifest returns or transforms back to the Tao; Btw, In the dualistic Bible there is a kind of related saying about the "first and the last" which i correlate to mean the first to spring forth and the last to return. the transcendent and emanate are connected, so not just one or the other except to give one a handle about same. Edited Wednesday at 08:10 AM by old3bob 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sahaja Posted Wednesday at 02:59 PM (edited) speaking of Shiva. There is a temple in South India called Chidambaram that has friezes of the 108 karanas of Shivas dances that is referenced in the early medieval text of the a great yogi Tirumalar - the Tirumantaram . A portion of them are used in self cultivation as a prelude to meditation. The last frames shows part of the initiation ceremony of the Mrigasthali Naths of the Goraknath temple of Pashupatanam temple complex in Katmandu. These are kanphata naths that have the center of their ears pierced as part of the initiation. As far as relating to the comparison topic this shows a link between the Tibetans (some of the pictures are from the temple in Lhasa Apso), Saivism/Naths in Nepal and the South India Siddhar tradition. The teacher featured in this once said there are paths in Buddhism, Yoga and Daoism that are comparable and at the beginning the practices are similar. However after the entry level it’s better to choose one and focus on it as each has its own way. Edited Wednesday at 03:58 PM by Sahaja 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigSkyDiamond Posted Wednesday at 03:20 PM (edited) On 8/11/2025 at 7:04 PM, Bindi said: Is your nondual take on this prayer (the Shema Yisrael?) a standard orthodox view? i responded earlier in the thread also, but here in concise form. from Tzvi Freeman: "That is the starting place of Torah, and the first approach of even the simplest Jew—that there is really nothing else but God." Edited Wednesday at 03:51 PM by BigSkyDiamond 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted Wednesday at 06:55 PM (edited) On 12/08/2025 at 4:19 AM, BigSkyDiamond said: God is infinite, permanent, unchanging, existing beyond time and space as an eternal absolute Being, the continuous source of all creation. God is both transcendent ("out there") and also immanent ("in here" within me). There is no place where God is not. This is the same in RC. On 12/08/2025 at 2:58 AM, BigSkyDiamond said: … nondual … RC is dual. Humans are distinct from God. Edited Wednesday at 07:00 PM by Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Wednesday at 11:40 PM (edited) 8 hours ago, Sahaja said: speaking of Shiva. There is a temple in South India called Chidambaram that has friezes of the 108 karanas of Shivas dances that is referenced in the early medieval text of the a great yogi Tirumalar - the Tirumantaram . A portion of them are used in self cultivation as a prelude to meditation. The last frames shows part of the initiation ceremony of the Mrigasthali Naths of the Goraknath temple of Pashupatanam temple complex in Katmandu. These are kanphata naths that have the center of their ears pierced as part of the initiation. As far as relating to the comparison topic this shows a link between the Tibetans (some of the pictures are from the temple in Lhasa Apso), Saivism/Naths in Nepal and the South India Siddhar tradition. The teacher featured in this once said there are paths in Buddhism, Yoga and Daoism that are comparable and at the beginning the practices are similar. However after the entry level it’s better to choose one and focus on it as each has its own way. Speaking of 'Shiva dances' and 'the destroyer ; In the Okinawan crane form I practiced, the main and repetative move , at the end of it , you are in the classic Shiva position and not only that , two of his hands/arms ( the crane's flapping 'wings') show the hand position at the beginning of the movement and the other two show the position at the end of the movement . The leg lower leg and foot might be more horizontal ( and often are depicted that way as well ) , this is due to an unusual ( sort of ) reverse roundhouse flick kick to the outside ( the position is after the kick ) - a tricky maneuver with the hips ..... perhaps the 'Shiva pose' in yoga would help with that ; I can see obvious martial application/ influence in the above video - note the big bangles at 1:52 Edited Wednesday at 11:48 PM by Nungali 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted yesterday at 03:15 AM 18 hours ago, old3bob said: destroyer does have some strong connotations, I'd say another way to get a handle on the idea is a "return" (as spoken of in the T.T.C. with the "One" said to be the first born), thus the manifest sprang forth or transformed from the Tao and the manifest returns or transforms back to the Tao; Btw, In the dualistic Bible there is a kind of related saying about the "first and the last" which i correlate to mean the first to spring forth and the last to return. the transcendent and emanate are connected, so not just one or the other except to give one a handle about same. ‘Destroyer’ does have strong connotations and may sound extreme, but I use the word very deliberately in an energy path context. At the head level, the Shiva aspect does have to crash through inner barriers, but this isn’t just force for force’s sake. The ‘destroyer’ function is also a safeguard, a test: ‘Can you stay steady when a bull is pacing around your house, or even crashing through the walls?’ If you panic and run, Shiva won’t enter, it’s a safety lock. When you’re truly ready and you don’t flinch, the energy enters smoothly, and Shiva’s face shifts from something fearsome to something calmer and more domesticated. So this ‘Destroyer’ aspect is a test, whilst also being the means to break through our natural resistance at that level. You’ve spoken of this before in terms of kundalini I think, but the principle is the same: you don’t want that force arriving before you’re prepared, or it can overwhelm the system, like the cases in India of people who’ve “seen the light (joti)” but burned their circuits. Better to be repelled until the body-mind can hold the increased current without damage. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 17 hours ago (edited) 10 hours ago, Bindi said: ‘Destroyer’ does have strong connotations and may sound extreme, but I use the word very deliberately in an energy path context. At the head level, the Shiva aspect does have to crash through inner barriers, but this isn’t just force for force’s sake. The ‘destroyer’ function is also a safeguard, a test: ‘Can you stay steady when a bull is pacing around your house, or even crashing through the walls?’ If you panic and run, Shiva won’t enter, it’s a safety lock. When you’re truly ready and you don’t flinch, the energy enters smoothly, and Shiva’s face shifts from something fearsome to something calmer and more domesticated. So this ‘Destroyer’ aspect is a test, whilst also being the means to break through our natural resistance at that level. You’ve spoken of this before in terms of kundalini I think, but the principle is the same: you don’t want that force arriving before you’re prepared, or it can overwhelm the system, like the cases in India of people who’ve “seen the light (joti)” but burned their circuits. Better to be repelled until the body-mind can hold the increased current without damage. Well there is the aspect of : "Rudra is a multifaceted deity in Hinduism, often associated with Shiva and storm deities like the Rudras or Maruts. He is known for both his destructive and healing powers, reflecting a complex nature that includes ferocity and benevolence. The name Rudra is also used as a name for Shiva himself in later Hinduism." I'd say if one has zero resistance as in purity and strength (etc.) then circuits as you say will not be burned up, but zero resistance and or related purity make for a long road back for most of us who have loads of karma along with there being built-in and keenly decerning guardians along the way that test and also in effect give various forms and levels of warnings to a seeker/traveler if they try to pass (for instance those with good intentions) but before they are really ready.... or those who may willfully try to take shortcuts around the dharma/law. (that can have dire results!) Edited 16 hours ago by old3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sahaja Posted 15 hours ago In some of the Tantric Saivism views (like the Krama) Shakti is viewed as the highest reality with Shiva still there but more passively in the background. There are even texts which have Shiva asking and Shakti answering the questions. Kali plays the intense part of Shakti’s role. It’s a non dual view but very different than advaita Vedanta. Everything is real, not illusion and is an expression of Shakti. Manifestation, time and death are embraced as part of Shakti’s power . Quite some intense and dynamic views in this one. First guru of the Krama sect was a woman. It’s views were important part of Abhinavaguptas classic exposition of Tantirc Saivism in the Tantraloka (around 1000 CE). 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted 14 hours ago It is my basic and rudimentary understanding, I'm still very new and just started to learn about Shiva-Shakti path, is that Shiva is essential inert without Shakti, yet the two are basically one and the same, which is depicted as is the Ardhanareeshvara. According to Shaktas, Shakti is essentially Brahman the " Supreme Ultimate Reality" of all that exists. I've also learned as Shakti is the Womb of the Cosmos and as such it is easier for women to connect with this type of energy, but some women will have trouble due to karmas, past lives, etc. Kundalini "herself" is a goddess, which further emphasizes this concept, I think? Correct me if I'm wrong or mislead. I'm so open to all knowledge I can possible grok. My own personal work/practice is strongly connected to womb connection and exploring the powers attributed to being a literal gateway for life and the ideas surrounding the Divine Feminine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 13 hours ago Btw, those raised Christian seldom or don't have an easy transition to the teachings of "Eastern" religions, which can blow the mind of a fundamentalist if they are not flexible and thus outright reject and or demean same. According to some Saivites Shiva or Siva is beyond any and all categories whereas Shakti is pure energy and cosmic matrix. ' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
心神 ~ Posted 11 hours ago 3 hours ago, Lala Nila said: My own personal work/practice is strongly connected to womb connection and exploring the powers attributed to being a literal gateway for life and the ideas surrounding the Divine Feminine. This is a list of my favorite books on the subject. It's not exhaustive, and I've left out great spiritual books written by, for, and about women that aren't explicitly discussing the Goddess or the Divine Feminine. If you're interested, I can share those as well. Blood, Bread, and Roses by Judy Grahn is one here you may be particularly interested in, as it explores the history of menstruation and womb worship. Anahita: A History and Reception of the Iranian Water Goddess by Manya Saadi-nejad The Ancient British Goddess: Her Myths, Legends, Sacred Sites and Present Day Revelation by Kathy Jones Blood, Bread, and Roses: Blood, Bread, and Roses: How Menstruation Created the World by Judy Grahn The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future by Riane Eisler Changing Woman and her Sisters: Stories of Goddesses from Around the World by Katrin Hyman Tchana The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe by Marija Gimbutas Clan of the Goddess: Celtic Widom and Ritual for Women by C.C. Brondwin The Divine Feminine in Ancient Europe: Goddesses, Sacred Women and the Origins of Western Culture by Sharon Paice MacLeod The Double Goddess: Women Sharing Power by Vicki Noble The Earth Goddess: Celtic and Pagan Legacy of the Landscape by Cheryl Straffon The Essential Handbook of Women's Spirituality and Ritual by Barbara G. Walker Goddesses and the Divine Feminine: A Western Religious History by Rosemary Radford Ruether The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth by Monica Sjöö The Great Goddess: Reverence of the Divine Feminine from the Paleolithic to the Present by Jean Markale Goddess of the North by Lynda C. Welch In Search of God the Mother: The Cult of Anatolian Cybeleby by Lynn E. Roller The Language of the Goddess by Marija Gimbutas Levinas, Judaism, and the Feminine: The Silent Footsteps of Rebecca by Claire Elise Katz The Living Goddesses by Marija Gimbutas Longing for Darkness: Tara and the Black Madonna by China Galland The Once and Future Goddess by Elinor W. Gadon The Other Side of the River: Stories of Women, Water and the World by Eila Kundrie Carrico Performing Piety: Making Space Sacred with the Virgin of Guadalupe by Elaine A. Pena Power of Raven, Wisdom of Serpent: Celtic Women's Spirituality by Noragh Jones Rebirth of the Goddess: Finding Meaning in Feminist Spirituality by Carol P. Christ The Serpent and the Goddess: The Serpent and the Goddess: Women, Religion, and Power in Celtic Ireland by Mary Condren The Silver Wheel: Women's Myths and Mysteries in the Celtic Tradition by Marguerite Elsbeth Sophia: Aspects of the Divine Feminine Past & Present by Susanne Schaup Sophia: Goddess of Wisdom, Bride of God by Caitlín Matthews Suckling at My Mother's Breasts: The Image of a Nursing God in Jewish Mysticism by Ellen Davina Haskell The Water Goddess in Igbo Cosmology: Ogbuide of Oguta Lake by Sabine Jell-Bahlsen The Way of All Women by Mary Esther Harding When God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone Wisdom's Feast: Sophia in Study and Celebration by Susan Cole Wise Women of the Dreamtime: Aboriginal Tales of the Ancestral Powers by Katie Langloh Parker The Woman in the Shaman's Body: Reclaiming the Feminine in Religion and Medicine by Barbara Tedlock The Woman Who Married the Bear: The Spirituality of the Ancient Foremothers by Barbara Alice Mann The Woman's Dictionary of Symbols and Sacred Objects by Barbara G. Walker The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara G. Walker Women's Mysteries: Ancient & Modern by Mary Esther Harding Women's Rites, Women's Mysteries: Intuitive Ritual Creation by Ruth Barrett Women's Rituals: A Sourcebook by Barbara G. Walker 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted 11 hours ago 12 minutes ago, 心神 ~ said: This is a list of my favorite books on the subject. It's not exhaustive, and I've left out great spiritual books written by, for, and about women that aren't explicitly discussing the Goddess or the Divine Feminine. If you're interested, I can share those as well. Blood, Bread, and Roses by Judy Grahn is one here you may be particularly interested in, as it explores the history of menstruation and womb worship. Anahita: A History and Reception of the Iranian Water Goddess by Manya Saadi-nejad The Ancient British Goddess: Her Myths, Legends, Sacred Sites and Present Day Revelation by Kathy Jones Blood, Bread, and Roses: Blood, Bread, and Roses: How Menstruation Created the World by Judy Grahn The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future by Riane Eisler Changing Woman and her Sisters: Stories of Goddesses from Around the World by Katrin Hyman Tchana The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe by Marija Gimbutas Clan of the Goddess: Celtic Widom and Ritual for Women by C.C. Brondwin The Divine Feminine in Ancient Europe: Goddesses, Sacred Women and the Origins of Western Culture by Sharon Paice MacLeod The Double Goddess: Women Sharing Power by Vicki Noble The Earth Goddess: Celtic and Pagan Legacy of the Landscape by Cheryl Straffon The Essential Handbook of Women's Spirituality and Ritual by Barbara G. Walker Goddesses and the Divine Feminine: A Western Religious History by Rosemary Radford Ruether The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth by Monica Sjöö The Great Goddess: Reverence of the Divine Feminine from the Paleolithic to the Present by Jean Markale Goddess of the North by Lynda C. Welch In Search of God the Mother: The Cult of Anatolian Cybeleby by Lynn E. Roller The Language of the Goddess by Marija Gimbutas Levinas, Judaism, and the Feminine: The Silent Footsteps of Rebecca by Claire Elise Katz The Living Goddesses by Marija Gimbutas Longing for Darkness: Tara and the Black Madonna by China Galland The Once and Future Goddess by Elinor W. Gadon The Other Side of the River: Stories of Women, Water and the World by Eila Kundrie Carrico Performing Piety: Making Space Sacred with the Virgin of Guadalupe by Elaine A. Pena Power of Raven, Wisdom of Serpent: Celtic Women's Spirituality by Noragh Jones Rebirth of the Goddess: Finding Meaning in Feminist Spirituality by Carol P. Christ The Serpent and the Goddess: The Serpent and the Goddess: Women, Religion, and Power in Celtic Ireland by Mary Condren The Silver Wheel: Women's Myths and Mysteries in the Celtic Tradition by Marguerite Elsbeth Sophia: Aspects of the Divine Feminine Past & Present by Susanne Schaup Sophia: Goddess of Wisdom, Bride of God by Caitlín Matthews Suckling at My Mother's Breasts: The Image of a Nursing God in Jewish Mysticism by Ellen Davina Haskell The Water Goddess in Igbo Cosmology: Ogbuide of Oguta Lake by Sabine Jell-Bahlsen The Way of All Women by Mary Esther Harding When God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone Wisdom's Feast: Sophia in Study and Celebration by Susan Cole Wise Women of the Dreamtime: Aboriginal Tales of the Ancestral Powers by Katie Langloh Parker The Woman in the Shaman's Body: Reclaiming the Feminine in Religion and Medicine by Barbara Tedlock The Woman Who Married the Bear: The Spirituality of the Ancient Foremothers by Barbara Alice Mann The Woman's Dictionary of Symbols and Sacred Objects by Barbara G. Walker The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara G. Walker Women's Mysteries: Ancient & Modern by Mary Esther Harding Women's Rites, Women's Mysteries: Intuitive Ritual Creation by Ruth Barrett Women's Rituals: A Sourcebook by Barbara G. Walker This is quite the list, thank you. All of these look very interesting and in line with my personal studies. I'm particularly interested in the ones by Jean Markale, Judy Grahn, Ruth Barrett, Babara Walker...wait maybe all of them haha. I'll start with Blood, Bread, and Roses by Judy Grahn. The stacks of books (and tarot decks) around my house is this ever growing monstrosity! Thanks again for this list. If you wouldn't mind to DM me the other list so as not to derail the thread, I would appreciate that! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted 3 hours ago 13 hours ago, old3bob said: Well there is the aspect of : "Rudra is a multifaceted deity in Hinduism, often associated with Shiva and storm deities like the Rudras or Maruts. He is known for both his destructive and healing powers, reflecting a complex nature that includes ferocity and benevolence. The name Rudra is also used as a name for Shiva himself in later Hinduism." Interesting, an extended version of rudra/shiva: The association of Rudra with Shiva, often referred to as "the Destroyer" in the Hindu trinity (Trimurti), is deeply rooted in Hindu mythology and philosophy. Here’s a detailed exploration of this connection: Rudra and Shiva: The Connection 1. Etymology and Identity Rudra: The term "Rudra" is derived from the Sanskrit root "rud," which means "to cry" or "to howl." Rudra is often associated with storms, wind, and the fierce aspects of nature. In the Vedas, Rudra is depicted as a powerful deity who embodies both destruction and healing. Shiva: Over time, Rudra evolved into one of the principal forms of Shiva. In many texts, Shiva is referred to as Rudra, emphasizing his dual nature as both a destroyer and a benefactor. 2. Destruction and Transformation Destruction as a Necessity: In Hindu philosophy, destruction is not viewed negatively; rather, it is seen as a necessary part of the cycle of creation, preservation, and dissolution. Shiva, as Rudra, embodies this aspect of destruction, which paves the way for renewal and transformation. Kundalini Energy: The concept of Rudra Granthi, as mentioned earlier, relates to the blockage of spiritual energy. Shiva's role as the destroyer is also symbolic of breaking through these blockages, allowing for spiritual awakening and the flow of Kundalini energy. 3. Mythological Narratives The Shiva Purana: In various texts, including the Shiva Purana, Rudra is depicted as a fierce and protective deity who can destroy evil and ignorance. This aligns with Shiva's role in combating negative forces and restoring cosmic order. The Dance of Destruction: Shiva's cosmic dance, known as Tandava, represents the cycles of creation and destruction. This dance is a manifestation of Rudra's energy, illustrating the dynamic interplay between destruction and creation. 4. Worship and Rituals Rudra in Worship: Devotees often invoke Rudra in prayers and rituals, seeking protection and the removal of obstacles. The Rudra Suktam, a hymn from the Rigveda, is a significant text dedicated to Rudra, highlighting his importance in Vedic worship. Shiva's Dual Nature: In worship, Shiva is revered not only as the destroyer but also as the creator and preserver, embodying the complete cycle of existence. Conclusion Rudra's association with Shiva as the destroyer emphasizes the balance of destruction and creation in the universe. This duality is central to understanding the nature of existence in Hindu philosophy, where destruction is a precursor to renewal and spiritual growth. 13 hours ago, old3bob said: I'd say if one has zero resistance as in purity and strength (etc.) then circuits as you say will not be burned up, but zero resistance and or related purity make for a long road back for most of us who have loads of karma 100% agreed 13 hours ago, old3bob said: along with there being built-in and keenly decerning guardians along the way that test and also in effect give various forms and levels of warnings to a seeker/traveler if they try to pass (for instance those with good intentions) but before they are really ready.... or those who may willfully try to take shortcuts around the dharma/law. (that can have dire results!) Absolutely 🙂 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted 3 hours ago 11 hours ago, Sahaja said: In some of the Tantric Saivism views (like the Krama) Shakti is viewed as the highest reality with Shiva still there but more passively in the background. There are even texts which have Shiva asking and Shakti answering the questions. Kali plays the intense part of Shakti’s role. It’s a non dual view but very different than advaita Vedanta. Everything is real, not illusion and is an expression of Shakti. Manifestation, time and death are embraced as part of Shakti’s power . Quite some intense and dynamic views in this one. First guru of the Krama sect was a woman. It’s views were important part of Abhinavaguptas classic exposition of Tantirc Saivism in the Tantraloka (around 1000 CE). I wonder if Shakti might be the highest material expression, and then logically shiva would the most material spiritual expression, so they together become a bridge between both worlds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites