when will human madness end?

[old3bob]

 

We keep repeating (or often) a lot of madness and seem to always learn the hard ward...but I feel such can only repeat for so long (besides for ages!) and then come to an end at last, how about you?

 

Edited Saturday at 05:00 PM by old3bob

[BigSkyDiamond]

my view (and my experience) is that when we change ourselves, then our view of the world changes.

we change the world when we change ourselves.

 

Edited Saturday at 04:33 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[old3bob]

28 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

my view (and my experience) is that when we change ourselves, then our view of the world changes.

we change the world when we change ourselves.

 

 

yea that is an age old saying...

[wstein]

Human madness waxes and wanes. It will only end with humanity ends.

As to you, remember you are a spirit, not a human. You can end your madness at any time by embracing this.

[old3bob]

 

I'd say when most of humanity evolves enough it will about end...at least on the Earth.

 

most of humanity know all the wise sayings, but alas....

[BigSkyDiamond]

they are "wise sayings" for a reason.

our point of power (to dissolve the "madness") is when we actually put it into practice in our own individual daily life and daily practice.

 

that's the difference between "knowledge" and acting on knowledge. 

[doc benway]

Human madness will not end. There will always be extremes and there will always be differences of opinion regarding what is madness and what is sanity. As Jiddu Krishnamurti famously said, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to such a sick society. But that does not mean we can't improve our situation and that of others by beginning at grass roots levels.

 

Human "civilization" is at least 5 - 6,000 years old, possibly older, and yet nothing meaningful has changed in our collective and individual psyches. We are evolving technologically and possibily intellectually but not psychologically or emotionally. In many ways we feel more sophisticated, more knowledgable, more capable, but if you look at our situation, inequality is worse than ever in history, our destructive potential is more formidable than ever before, the effects of our presence on Earth more destructive than ever before. When you look at our behavior and its effects, our species acts very much like a cancer - growing without any restraint or sensibility, choking out all competition, destroying our loving host, and putting our very survival at risk. It's nice to imagine that something or someone will come along and change all that but the evidence does not support such a dream. None of our religious, political, or intellectual leaders have made much of a difference overall. Certainly there are regions and groups that do better than others and this fluctuates over time but overall I see little evidence of collective psychological and emotional growth. 

 

While this may sound and feel very discouraging, there is a solution as described above.

We must free ourselves from the shackles of ignorance and limitation imposed by millennia of conditioning and sabotage. 

We must discover and remember what it means to be fully human, both individually and collectively. 

That can only start by turning inward and looking at the truth of our own personal situation.

For me, this is the core and purpose of spirituality.

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

the world with its cast of characters continues to exist.

but we no longer see it as "madness."  

"madness" and "sick society" are personal interpretations made by an individual.

When the individual no longer sees through that lens, no longer tells that story, then "madness" dissolves, and is no longer how the world is seen.

.

 

 

[old3bob]

 

Good news,  human madness will actually end on this Earth when this Earth becomes/evolves into more like a heaven for then madness/adharma will not be able manifest upon Her,  as for other human/soul type habitations or worlds where madness can still manifest that is above my pay grade.

 

[old3bob]

1 minute ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

the world with its cast of characters continues to exist.

but we no longer see it as "madness."  

"madness" and "sick society" are personal interpretations made by an individual.

When the individual no longer sees through that lens, no longer tells that story, then "madness" dissolves, and is no longer how the world is seen.

.

 

sounds like more wonderful and enlightened platitude's...

[old3bob]

22 minutes ago, doc benway said:

Human madness will not end. There will always be extremes and there will always be differences of opinion regarding what is madness and what is sanity. As Jiddu Krishnamurti famously said, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to such a sick society. But that does not mean we can't improve our situation and that of others by beginning at grass roots levels.

 

Human "civilization" is at least 5 - 6,000 years old, possibly older, and yet nothing meaningful has changed in our collective and individual psyches. We are evolving technologically and possibily intellectually but not psychologically or emotionally. In many ways we feel more sophisticated, more knowledgable, more capable, but if you look at our situation, inequality is worse than ever in history, our destructive potential is more formidable than ever before, the effects of our presence on Earth more destructive than ever before. When you look at our behavior and its effects, our species acts very much like a cancer - growing without any restraint or sensibility, choking out all competition, destroying our loving host, and putting our very survival at risk. It's nice to imagine that something or someone will come along and change all that but the evidence does not support such a dream. None of our religious, political, or intellectual leaders have made much of a difference overall. Certainly there are regions and groups that do better than others and this fluctuates over time but overall I see little evidence of collective psychological and emotional growth. 

 

While this may sound and feel very discouraging, there is a solution as described above.

We must free ourselves from the shackles of ignorance and limitation imposed by millennia of conditioning and sabotage. 

We must discover and remember what it means to be fully human, both individually and collectively. 

That can only start by turning inward and looking at the truth of our own personal situation.

For me, this is the core and purpose of spirituality.

 

 

Imo JK was an anti-guru guru which was his form of incongruent hypocrisy...

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

they are "wise sayings" for a reason.

our point of power (to dissolve the "madness") is when we actually put it into practice in our own individual daily life and daily practice.

 

that's the difference between "knowledge" and acting on knowledge. 

 

right...

[BigSkyDiamond]

Just now, old3bob said:

sounds like more wonderful and enlightened platitude's...

 

it is actually saying the same thing as the post below.

We are saying the same thing. 

you see the "Earth" evolving, i see the "person's inner state" evolving.

and the result is the same. no more madness within our sphere.

.

4 minutes ago, old3bob said:

Good news,  human madness will actually end on this Earth when this Earth becomes/evolves into more like a heaven for then madness/adharma will not be able manifest upon Her,  as for other human/soul type habitations or worlds where madness can still manifest that is above my pay grade.

 

[old3bob]

1 minute ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

it is actually saying the same thing as the post below.

We are saying the same thing. 

you see the "Earth" evolving, i see the "person's inner state" evolving.

and the result is the same. no more madness within our sphere.

.

 

 

 good point but I'm talking more about all of us and not just a few of us,  

[LittlePie]

Human madness ends when everyone drops their egos, but you all attach yourselves to them so tightly, afraid to lay yourselves bare, so its quite difficult.

[BigSkyDiamond]

54 minutes ago, doc benway said:

As Jiddu Krishnamurti famously said, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to such a sick society.

 

my view is that it is no measure of health to (a) see society as sick.  Or (b) rail against well adjusted people.

 

Edited Sunday at 04:51 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

on the other hand, there is this.

"

 Krishnamurti answered: "How can you expect me to be concerned with what should be done or how it should be done? If you have once lived on a mountain top, you cannot return to the plains. You can only try to make other people feel the purity of the air and enjoy the infinite prospect, and become one with the beauty of life there."

[Cobie]

 

2 hours ago, doc benway said:

…  Jiddu Krishnamurti famously said, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to such a sick society….

reminded me of DDJ ch. 70 

 

[start ch 70 MWD B (DIO)]

吾 言 易 知 也 wú yán yì zhī yě - We say: change awareness, 

易 行 也 yì xíng yě - change behaviour.

而 天 下 ér tiān xià - But in our society 

莫 之 能 知 也 mò zhī néng zhī yě - it’s not possible to be aware, and 

莫 之 能 行 也 mò zhī néng xíng yě - it’s not possible to be alright.

…

 

2 hours ago, doc benway said:

… start by turning inward …

 

[end ch 70 MWD B (DIO)]

是 以 圣(聖) 人 shì yǐ shèng rén - Therefore a ‘wise and moral’ person 

被 褐 bèi hè - meets with the darkness 

而 怀(懷) 玉 ér huái yù - and yet has a pure mind.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 06:21 PM by Cobie

[LittlePie]

56 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

on the other hand, there is this.

"

 Krishnamurti answered: "How can you expect me to be concerned with what should be done or how it should be done? If you have once lived on a mountain top, you cannot return to the plains. You can only try to make other people feel the purity of the air and enjoy the infinite prospect, and become one with the beauty of life there."

anyone connected to all by way of universal energy would of course be concerned. this is the buddhist state of compassion. 

[BigSkyDiamond]

33 minutes ago, Cobie said:

reminded me of DDJ ch. 70 

被 褐 bèi hè - meets with the darkness 

而 怀(懷) 玉 ér huái yù - and yet has a pure mind.

 

 bingo.  yes.

 

Edited Sunday at 06:27 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Cobie]

 

On 28/06/2025 at 6:23 PM, old3bob said:

… I feel such can only repeat for so long (besides for ages!) and then come to an end at last, how about you?

I don’t think it will end, but I feel you’ve got your heart in the right place.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 06:58 PM by Cobie

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, LittlePie said:

anyone connected to all by way of universal energy would of course be concerned. this is the buddhist state of compassion. 

 

"A common sign of compassion is not emotional volatility at all, but rather calm and stability."

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

my view is that it is no measure of health to (a) see society as sick.  Or (b) rail against well adjusted people.

 

 

I appreciate the wisdom of your comment and offer my response as an expression of my current feelings, not necessarily as a rebuttal.

I don't know you well but well enough, I think, to know that nothing I say below will be anything you don't already realize.

 

I see a lot of sickness in my society, and our global society, and a lot of good also.

While it may not always be healthy, seeing clearly is the first step towards change.

I think it is important in a healthy society to rail against those causing abuse and harm to the most vulnerable among us.

Equally important to spread awareness among those who may be ignorant and well-adjusted to it. 

Calm and stability are priceless but won't always stop starvation, torture, extermination, and the host of other atrocities going on. 

Sometimes action is needed and, of course, it is important that action come from that place of calm and stability to be effective and appropriate. 

 

[zerostao]

On or about the next mass extinction.

[Cobie]

 

4 hours ago, LittlePie said:

Human madness ends when everyone drops their egos, but you all attach yourselves to them so tightly, afraid to lay yourselves bare, so its quite difficult.

my highlighting

Ah to be young and to still think everyone else is to blame and not know as yet that’s a complete dead end. Happy days. 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:27 PM by Cobie